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Who is the Target Audience for the STEAM OS/MACHINES?

K

kenjigreat

Banned
According to Gabe , its people who own consoles .

gabe-newell-steam-machines-vs-modern-consoles-alienware-700x389.jpg

Source: http://gamerant.com/valve-gabe-newell-steam-machine-console/

“At console price points we’re going to have machines like Alienware‘s, which are faster than today’s consoles. So the same price point as today, except you get better performance and you’re connected to everything you like about the PC and the Internet.

“Our perception is that customers are always going to make the best choices for what they want. We can knock down the barriers that keep PC gaming out of the living room, and then customers can decide what they want. So the way we organized it, in our thinking, is a sort of ‘good, better, and best’ kind of thing.”
Click to expand...

That doesn't make any sense. This comes from someone who has invested heavily in PC gaming and console gaming.

People buy Consoles for 2 reasons mainly. Exclusive Games and Convenience .

exclusives.png


1. Nintendo Fans buy Nintendo Consoles for Mario / Metroid / Zelda . Friends I know buy the Xbox for Halo . I personally bought the PS4 just for Uncharted.


2. Convenience of not having to think about anything. Put in disc , install updates . Done.
You don't have to look up benchmarks , update your drivers on the launch of a hot new game. Tune your settings .



The PC has power and a multitude of tools , Dxtory , Fraps , Shadowplay , OBS for Streaming recording etc. Consoles prioritize having ONE button to share content because people want convenience instead of choice .

steam-machines-1.png



Having a myriad of different Steam Machines on the market also does not help. Consoles are easily identifiable to the mass gaming audience. People know what a PS4 /Xbone /Wii U is and what they offer. Having 10 Similar Steam Machines from different manufacturers at different prices just confuses people.



The Strange thing is , Steam Machines don't work for Hardcore PC gamers .

Google the words , Steam Machine Gaming Performance and the first result is.


Gaming performance on Valve's SteamOS can't keep up with Windows

latest


http://www.theverge.com/2015/11/16/9743148/steam-machine-steamos-performance-gaming-valve-windows-linux

So not only can you not do everything that Windows can do , it also performs worse .

I could go on to make arguments of on how people who love PC gaming already have a decent PC but this is enough to kill any potential PC Gamer adopting it as their main gaming platform.


Final Point , the Steam Controller could be the perfect metaphor for the Steam Machines . It doesn't outperform the mouse and keyboard and is not as familiar as a Console Controller.
 
From the horses mouth:

“We built Steam for the same reasons we did all this: it didn’t exist, a bunch of people wanted it to exist, no one was building it, so we built it. There was this post-rationalisation of Steam after it was launched; like ‘of course you’d build that, it’s obvious’ – but, at the time, when we were building it, no one else was,” says Valve’s business development specialist Erik Johnson.

“Who knows if it’ll be the same this time, but if you ask customers, ‘do you want to be able to play all your Steam games in your living room with a controller?’, they’re like: ‘yeah, that sounds cool.’ That’s good enough for us to move forward. We’re not obsessed with what market we’re creating or what users we’re cannibalising from other platforms. No one ever makes good decisions based off that kind of data"

And also regarding how they are not making some sort of finished product or following a console type launch path, intending to start off only serving a small amount of established Steam users:

“The focus of most of this work has really been on bringing value to Steam customers,” he said. “Even if we’re only serving a fraction of them, we feel like we’ll be very successful if that fraction is having a great experience in the living room. That number will probably grow over time. We’re not even trying to push our existing users toward the living room or the TV if they don’t want to have that experience. All those customers are currently pretty happy doing what they’re doing in the den with their PCs or laptops. This is just an extra avenue for them, if they want to sit on the sofa like a lot of them do, I think. Then it’s great to have this other option through which you can access Steam. It’s not an attempt to go very far, or really at all at first, beyond our initiated customer base. We’re going to learn a bunch from the people who already value Steam really highly. We don’t feel like we have to jump exponentially outside that group just to be successful in that realm"

“Usually, when a platform like this gets brought out, it’s a very different working method and proposition to customers,” he continued. “It looks more like a team that’s much larger than us has worked at perfecting something and finishing it, and then reducing risk as much possible and locking down that design, making it ready for a massive initial manufacturing push, spending billions of dollars on marketing. Very different from what we’re trying to do. We don’t have to be so risk-averse. We intentionally are operating this way because we think it will result in a much better product, in the short term and the long term, to be public about this, and to have it iterated with us and with partners and with users. But it lets us start small and grow over time.”
 
Having options isn't a problem when buying phones, or TV's, or anything else. That's the least of Valve's problems.
 
Saw one being advertised for $299 on Steam the other day that was the i3/750 ti combo that DF uses in their tests and regularly outperforms consoles. For an extra $25 or something it came with a 960.

Not a bad deal at all for a mini itx. I would throw Windows on it myself though.
 
I also think people ignore the fact that Valve has actually spent very little money on this whole thing. Sure, developing the controller was expensive, and creating Steam OS might have been somewhat of a hassle. But it didn't cost them hundred of millions, let alone billions. Even if it just slowly dies of, Valve would not be really hurt by it. Steam keeps them alive forever.
 
BennyBlanco said:
Saw one being advertised for $299 on Steam the other day that was the i3/750 ti combo that DF uses in their tests and regularly outperforms consoles. For an extra $25 or something it came with a 960.

Not a bad deal at all for a mini itx. I would throw Windows on it myself though.
Click to expand...

Can you still call it a steam machine if you were going to throw windows on it anyways since the gaming performance on Steam OS is -_-.

Its just a convenient pre-built mini PC at this point.
 
Also regarding "Gaming performance on Valve's SteamOS can't keep up with Windows" - this should have been entirely expected, from the state of what Linux has been and the fact that OGL is difficult to work with. This is part of the reason for the big effort Valve have with Vulkan. It is going to take several years of work for SteamOS to become competent performance wise.
 
Nzyme32 said:
Also regarding "Gaming performance on Valve's SteamOS can't keep up with Windows" - this should have been entirely expected, from the state of what Linux has been and the fact that OGL is difficult to work with. This is part of the reason for the big effort Valve have with Vulkan. It is going to take several years of work for SteamOS to become competent performance wise.
Click to expand...

I'm not saying its not expected , I'm just saying you aren't swaying anyone who owns a console if the big point for PC gaming compared to Console gaming is performance ( the ability to run at Higher Resolution and Framerate) and you know you are getting an under performing OS.
 
Nzyme32 said:
From the horses mouth:

“We built Steam for the same reasons we did all this: it didn’t exist, a bunch of people wanted it to exist, no one was building it, so we built it. There was this post-rationalisation of Steam after it was launched; like ‘of course you’d build that, it’s obvious’ – but, at the time, when we were building it, no one else was,” says Valve’s business development specialist Erik Johnson.

“Who knows if it’ll be the same this time, but if you ask customers, ‘do you want to be able to play all your Steam games in your living room with a controller?’, they’re like: ‘yeah, that sounds cool.’ That’s good enough for us to move forward. We’re not obsessed with what market we’re creating or what users we’re cannibalising from other platforms. No one ever makes good decisions based off that kind of data"

And also regarding how they are not making some sort of finished product or following a console type launch path, intending to start off only serving a small amount of established Steam users:

“The focus of most of this work has really been on bringing value to Steam customers,” he said. “Even if we’re only serving a fraction of them, we feel like we’ll be very successful if that fraction is having a great experience in the living room. That number will probably grow over time. We’re not even trying to push our existing users toward the living room or the TV if they don’t want to have that experience. All those customers are currently pretty happy doing what they’re doing in the den with their PCs or laptops. This is just an extra avenue for them, if they want to sit on the sofa like a lot of them do, I think. Then it’s great to have this other option through which you can access Steam. It’s not an attempt to go very far, or really at all at first, beyond our initiated customer base. We’re going to learn a bunch from the people who already value Steam really highly. We don’t feel like we have to jump exponentially outside that group just to be successful in that realm"

“Usually, when a platform like this gets brought out, it’s a very different working method and proposition to customers,” he continued. “It looks more like a team that’s much larger than us has worked at perfecting something and finishing it, and then reducing risk as much possible and locking down that design, making it ready for a massive initial manufacturing push, spending billions of dollars on marketing. Very different from what we’re trying to do. We don’t have to be so risk-averse. We intentionally are operating this way because we think it will result in a much better product, in the short term and the long term, to be public about this, and to have it iterated with us and with partners and with users. But it lets us start small and grow over time.”
Click to expand...

This honestly makes more sense , although this article is from 2013 and by a Valve Engineer while the article I quoted was 3 weeks ago , almost before the launch Straight from Gabe Newell.
 
kenjigreat said:
I'm not saying its not expected , I'm just saying you aren't swaying anyone who owns a console if the big point for PC gaming compared to Console gaming is performance ( the ability to run at Higher Resolution and Framerate) and you know you are getting an under performing OS.
Click to expand...

They are not trying to "sway console users". This has been made clear since 2013. Valve just don't care about how slow their progression is, under the knowledge that they are starting small and with enthusiast Steam users primarily. The experience now is as shit as Steam was when it started out. Similarly this was true of the messyness of the Steam Controller when it came out in October, yet the speed of iteration for that is insanely good. The experience of using it now is far better than then. Obviously that is an easier product to deal with than an OS and the machines, which is going to be a much slower process if it works out at all with Vulkan being hugely important to them getting anywhere
 
People buy consoles mostly for 3rd party games...
People who buy only for exclusive generally buy after 3/4 years
 
Nzyme32 said:
Also regarding "Gaming performance on Valve's SteamOS can't keep up with Windows" - this should have been entirely expected, from the state of what Linux has been and the fact that OGL is difficult to work with. This is part of the reason for the big effort Valve have with Vulkan. It is going to take several years of work for SteamOS to become competent performance wise.
Click to expand...

This is what Valve themselves said on the SteamOS announcement page though

In SteamOS, we have achieved significant performance increases in graphics processing, and we’re now targeting audio performance and reductions in input latency at the operating system level. Game developers are already taking advantage of these gains as they target SteamOS for their new releases.
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and this never came to fruition.
 
kenjigreat said:
I'm not saying its not expected , I'm just saying you aren't swaying anyone who owns a console if the big point for PC gaming compared to Console gaming is performance ( the ability to run at Higher Resolution and Framerate) and you know you are getting an under performing OS.
Click to expand...
Even if SteamOS is outperformed by Windows, it's still going to outperform consoles at the same price point.

You're also continually ignoring this part of the previously-posted quote:
Nzyme32 said:
From the horses mouth:

We’re not obsessed with what market we’re creating or what users we’re cannibalising from other platforms. No one ever makes good decisions based off that kind of data"
Click to expand...
ashecitism said:
This is what Valve themselves said on the SteamOS announcement page though



and this never came to fruition.
Click to expand...
They're not comparing SteamOS to Windows anywhere in that quote, they're saying SteamOS is getting gains compared to where it was before.
 
ashecitism said:
This is what Valve themselves said on the SteamOS announcement page though



and this never came to fruition.
Click to expand...

Oh yeah definitely, they talk about movies music and streaming services - none of which have shown up. There were only a handful of examples where Linux/SteamOS performance was better than Windows. They've been straight out misleading
 
Pranay_ said:
People buy consoles mostly for 3rd party games...
People who buy only for exclusive generally buy after 3/4 years
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure people who own Wii Us don't .

You pretty much know what kind of exclusives you are getting when you buy a console , I'm not interested in Halo and Titanfall was on PC .

In general the Xbone , PS4 and PC are going to have the 'same' 3rd party games with minor timed exclusivity . I prefer running third party games on PC IF they are optimised , MGS V was great on PC. I had to pull out my console to run Arkham Knight .
 
Nzyme32 said:
Oh yeah definitely, they talk about movies music and streaming services - none of which have shown up. There were only a handful of examples where Linux/SteamOS performance was better than Windows. They've been straight out misleading
Click to expand...

Wonder what heppend with the multimedia stuff. They said at the announcement how they're in talks with those service providers to bring those things to Steam. This GDC again movies/music was mentioned. Did the talks fell through or what?
 
The target audience is seemingly very small, but that's also what I thought of Steam back in 2004. Not saying SteamOS is going to be a success in the same order as Steam, but Valve are pretty good at iteration and improvement where it counts even if their pace is really slow.

Nzyme32 said:
Oh yeah definitely, they talk about movies music and streaming services - none of which have shown up. There were only a handful of examples where Linux/SteamOS performance was better than Windows. They've been straight out misleading
Click to expand...

Movies and music actually are on Steam, though the selection is rather anemic and Big Picture is pretty much the only way to conveniently access them.
 
ashecitism said:
Wonder what heppend with the multimedia stuff. They said at the announcement how they're in talks with those service providers. Which was reiterated this GDC. Did the talks fell through or what?
Click to expand...

My assumption was (or rather hope) that they delayed a bunch of Steam features or a client refresh to coincide with the SteamVR stuff, but that looks doubtful. I don't see how it would be hard to have such services integrated into Steam, but apparently it is
 
ashecitism said:
Wonder what heppend with the multimedia stuff. They said at the announcement how they're in talks with those service providers. Which was reiterated this GDC. Did the talks fell through or what?
Click to expand...
References to Spotify in Steam Music were found in update files, and Gabe even teased it in an AMA one point, but the speculation going around is that it got staggered by Sony buying exclusivity for PlayStation.
 
kenjigreat said:
I'm pretty sure people who own Wii Us don't .

You pretty much know what kind of exclusives you are getting when you buy a console , I'm not interested in Halo and Titanfall was on PC .

In general the Xbone , PS4 and PC are going to have the 'same' 3rd party games with minor timed exclusivity . I prefer running third party games on PC IF they are optimised , MGS V was great on PC. I had to pull out my console to run Arkham Knight .
Click to expand...

Wiiu doesn't have any 3rd party.
 
The conception that they are trying to threaten consoles is a natural reaction from the press wanting to sensationalize it and gaming's typical tribalism.

Right now, steam machines are probably most beneficial to oems who want to get their pre built gaming pcs on the front page of the steam store.

As of now, steamos is nifty for turning a toaster into an indie/streaming box with minimal hassle. When it comes to 500-1000 dollar pre-builds, it's mostly appropriate as a nice alternative to the no-os option. For a pc that expensive most would want to install windows to fully utilize it, but it's nice that it can turn on and play/stream games right out of the box.

And of course, somewhere out there there are a few hundred thousand linux users who are very grateful for all the developments.
 
kenjigreat said:
I'm pretty sure people who own Wii Us don't .
Click to expand...

Don't let its popularity among NeoGAF fool you - not to throw shade on the console itself, but the Wii U is, while better than before, still doing VERY poorly. It only just caught up to the lifetime sales of the Dreamcast.

Third party is the reason people buy consoles. It's the reason the Wii had a huge head start at the beginning of the generation and then petered off to third place towards the end, and the reason nobody's buying the Wii U. First party can give you a good head start but games sell consoles, and third party support will get you more games faster even if you own fifty billion development studios like Nintendo does.
 
outunderthestars said:
I still see a market for small form factor prebuilt gaming pcs. That said, going with linux has absolutely no benefit for the consumer.
Click to expand...

Don't get me wrong I think Small Form Factor gaming PCs are awesome . In the future where they can fit Titans into those Boxes I'll probably get one to replace my current rig which weighs a ton.

I just can't see myself using Steam OS , ever . From a Windows User standpoint , I lose all the functionality with negative gains in framerate . From a Console User standpoint , there is no and probably never will be any compelling software for me to want to hop over.

I'm asking the question because I don't see the point of running Steam OS on the machines. Which is the point of Steam Machines , if you remove steam OS , its just regular PC gaming on windows.

Doctor Ironic said:
Don't let its popularity among NeoGAF fool you - not to throw shade on the console itself, but the Wii U is, while better than before, still doing VERY poorly. It only just caught up to the lifetime sales of the Dreamcast.

Third party is the reason people buy consoles. It's the reason the Wii had a huge head start at the beginning of the generation and then petered off to third place towards the end, and the reason nobody's buying the Wii U. First party can give you a good head start but games sell consoles, and third party support will get you more games faster even if you own fifty billion development studios like Nintendo does.
Click to expand...

Having Good PR , Better Pricing and Outperforming your competitors in Game Performance helps too.
 
The target audience of Steam Machines is people who are looking for a compact and easy-to-use device to play PC games on. There is a lot of demand for such a device among core gamers, the problem is that Valve royally fucked up the Steam Machines 'launch' and effectively sent them to die. Yes, I know, Valve Time and Steam was crap at first and all that, but the iterative approach on a free piece of software is nothing at all like using the same logic on a $400+ device that people have to buy and expect to just work. All Valve had to do was provide a simple entry point to PC gaming. A cheap, decently powerful device that worked as intended out of the box. A device that you could point to when asked 'what is the easiest way to play PC games'?

Most of the Steam Machine models are absolute garbage. Valve didn't set any guidelines or minimum specs and the end result is a terrible mess that does absolutely nothing to achieve the goal of providing a 'turnkey solution to the living room' as Gabe Newell put it. It pains me to say it because I believe that the Steam Machines have huge potential as a concept, but in their current form they are a disaster.
 
And your problem is that you literally cannot stop looking at it from a PC Gamer vs Console mindset. Steam wasn't appealing to PC Gamers at launch at all. PC Gamers valued a decentralized marketplace and lack of DRM at first as well.

Performance on SteamOS is still better than the same hardware point on consoles, and will continue to improve, especially if Vulkan starts to take off. At this point you're literally complaining "early adopters are buying this early adopter product!" Like, yeah. Of course.
kenjigreat said:
Having Good PR , Better Pricing and Outperforming your competitors in Game Performance helps too.
Click to expand...
The PS4 has worse performance than PCs and Steam Machines and was the most expensive console for the longest time and that didn't stop it from selling on par with the original Wii.
 
That quote doesn't imply that the initiative was for console owners.
Like, at all.

Nzyme32 said:
From the horses mouth:

“We built Steam for the same reasons we did all this: it didn’t exist, a bunch of people wanted it to exist, no one was building it, so we built it. There was this post-rationalisation of Steam after it was launched; like ‘of course you’d build that, it’s obvious’ – but, at the time, when we were building it, no one else was,” says Valve’s business development specialist Erik Johnson.

“Who knows if it’ll be the same this time, but if you ask customers, ‘do you want to be able to play all your Steam games in your living room with a controller?’, they’re like: ‘yeah, that sounds cool.’ That’s good enough for us to move forward. We’re not obsessed with what market we’re creating or what users we’re cannibalising from other platforms. No one ever makes good decisions based off that kind of data"

And also regarding how they are not making some sort of finished product or following a console type launch path, intending to start off only serving a small amount of established Steam users:

“The focus of most of this work has really been on bringing value to Steam customers,” he said. “Even if we’re only serving a fraction of them, we feel like we’ll be very successful if that fraction is having a great experience in the living room. That number will probably grow over time. We’re not even trying to push our existing users toward the living room or the TV if they don’t want to have that experience. All those customers are currently pretty happy doing what they’re doing in the den with their PCs or laptops. This is just an extra avenue for them, if they want to sit on the sofa like a lot of them do, I think. Then it’s great to have this other option through which you can access Steam. It’s not an attempt to go very far, or really at all at first, beyond our initiated customer base. We’re going to learn a bunch from the people who already value Steam really highly. We don’t feel like we have to jump exponentially outside that group just to be successful in that realm"

“Usually, when a platform like this gets brought out, it’s a very different working method and proposition to customers,” he continued. “It looks more like a team that’s much larger than us has worked at perfecting something and finishing it, and then reducing risk as much possible and locking down that design, making it ready for a massive initial manufacturing push, spending billions of dollars on marketing. Very different from what we’re trying to do. We don’t have to be so risk-averse. We intentionally are operating this way because we think it will result in a much better product, in the short term and the long term, to be public about this, and to have it iterated with us and with partners and with users. But it lets us start small and grow over time.”
Click to expand...

I wouldn't be surprised if you had this BBcode hotkeyed to something lol

kenjigreat said:
This honestly makes more sense , although this article is from 2013 and by a Valve Engineer while the article I quoted was 3 weeks ago , almost before the launch Straight from Gabe Newell.
Click to expand...

The top quote is from October 20th of this year.
 
outunderthestars said:
That said, going with linux has absolutely no benefit for the consumer.
Click to expand...

People say that in every SteamOS related thread, and it still puzzles me. How is a free, open-source system not beneficial to the consumer? No one owns the OS, you can do what you want, and reinstall it as often as you like.
If you said it has currently few benefits for gaming, and many disadvantages, I'd agree. But if you look at the Engadget review there are advantages to going Linux over Windows:
Engadget said:
The Alienware Steam Machine is everything that Windows-based PC "game consoles" aren't. It's easy to set up, easy to use, extremely reliable and practically idiot-proof. Let me invoke the Alienware Alpha one more time to illustrate this: When I booted up Dell's original media-center gaming PC for the first time, it presented me with a "grab your mouse and keyboard" Windows 8 setup screen. It was awful. The new machine? It showed me a simple outline of Valve's Steam Controller, asked me to press a single button and then effortlessly led me through signing EULAs, adjusting TV settings, setting up the internet and logging into Steam. It was easy.
Click to expand...
This is a clear advantage, because Valve can modify the OS to suit their needs. All updates go through the package manager, with Valve being in control of the repositories.

The performance issues will hopefully improve as driver support improves and developers become more familiar with Linux and start developing for multiplatform from the start rather than porting a finished DirectX game. You can already see that many games developed from the ground up with Linux in mind run pretty well. The current limitations aren't inherent to the OS, and there isn't much Valve can do, other than hope that nvidia and especially AMD will keep improving their Linux drivers.
 
There is no market for this and honestly I can't see how there will ever be a market for this.

I know the 'it's always meant to start small and then grow over time', but really, it doesn't offer something better.
The only ones who benefit from this are Valve. Consumers limit their options and publishers having to port on yet another device/OS.

Valve, who by the way, just did nothing to solve PC couch gaming problems. I still can't believe how a company like Valve is launching the Steam Controller and now Steam OS/machines. Maybe they had/have too many projects and not the workforce to back it up.
 
Doctor Ironic said:
And your problem is that you literally cannot stop looking at it from a PC Gamer vs Console mindset. Steam wasn't appealing to PC Gamers at launch at all. PC Gamers valued a decentralized marketplace and lack of DRM at first as well.

Performance on SteamOS is still better than the same hardware point on consoles, and will continue to improve, especially if Vulkan starts to take off. At this point you're literally complaining "early adopters are buying this early adopter product!" Like, yeah. Of course.
Click to expand...

Wait why shouldn't we look at it from a PC gamer and Console Gamer Mindset. You are forgetting that the Steam actually brought advantages in terms of convenience and steam sales. These advantages are what makes it compelling as a sales platform.

Steam OS on the other hand offers nothing compelling to the Core gamer . He can get a much better experience gaming wise using Windows or an experience with much less hassle on Console.

The only reason we are talking about PC and Console gamers is because they make up pretty much the majority of the gaming market and there is no gimmick to bring in a new audience like the Wii.

Boombox On said:
That quote doesn't imply that the initiative was for console owners.
Like, at all.



I wouldn't be surprised if you had this BBcode hotkeyed to something lol



The top quote is from October 20th of this year.
Click to expand...

My bad.

Doctor Ironic said:
The PS4 has worse performance than PCs and Steam Machines and was the most expensive console for the longest time and that didn't stop it from selling on par with the original Wii.
Click to expand...

I'm talking about Console Vs Console , the Xbone was more expensive than the PS4. People that buy the PS4 don't care about Price to Performance Ratio , the ease of use is what consoles excel at , otherwise they would be playing on PC already.
 
ricki42 said:
People say that in every SteamOS related thread, and it still puzzles me. How is a free, open-source system not beneficial to the consumer? No one owns the OS, you can do what you want, and reinstall it as often as you like.
If you said it has currently few benefits for gaming, and many disadvantages, I'd agree. But if you look at the Engadget review there are advantages to going Linux over Windows:

This is a clear advantage, because Valve can modify the OS to suit their needs. All updates go through the package manager, with Valve being in control of the repositories.

The performance issues will hopefully improve as driver support improves and developers become more familiar with Linux and start developing for multiplatform from the start rather than porting a finished DirectX game. You can already see that many games developed from the ground up with Linux in mind run pretty well. The current limitations aren't inherent to the OS, and there isn't much Valve can do, other than hope that nvidia and especially AMD will keep improving their Linux drivers.
Click to expand...

I think hardly anyone has tried it so they may not appreciate that it actually works as intended. The game selection is not that of windows, like everything that is not windows. And the current poor performance is of course not ideal, but the core concept works. It pretty effectively disguises a pc as a console.
 
Real_Madrid said:
Valve, who by the way, just did nothing to solve PC couch gaming problems. I still can't believe how a company like Valve is launching the Steam Controller and now Steam OS/machines. Maybe they had/have too many projects and not the workforce to back it up.
Click to expand...

I dunno man, the Steam Controller does let me play Deus Ex on my couch. That's not nothing.
 
Crayon said:
I think hardly anyone has tried it so they may not appreciate that it actually works as intended. The game selection is not that of windows, like everything that is not windows. And the current poor performance is of course not ideal, but the core concept works. It pretty effectively disguises a pc as a console.
Click to expand...

In what way exactly? It's a mini pc with a modified Linux version on it. A console in my mindset is a plug and play device that works for couch gaming, has the big AAA titles and a unified input method.
 
Crayon said:
I think hardly anyone has tried it so they may not appreciate that it actually works as intended. The game selection is not that of windows, like everything that is not windows. And the current poor performance is of course not ideal, but the core concept works. It pretty effectively disguises a pc as a console.
Click to expand...

How does it disguise a PC as a console . I can ask any of my friends who primarily play on Console and they couldn't tell you who makes Steam Machines or the benefits of Steam Machines.

I'm pretty sure everyone here can list some of the benefits of Current generation of consoles and certainly know who makes them.

Real_Madrid said:
In what way exactly? It's a mini pc with a modified Linux version on it. A console in my mindset is a plug and play device that works for couch gaming, has the big AAA titles and a unified input method.
Click to expand...

Exactly , its the ease of use , brainless , put the Disc and works mindset that helps sell consoles against PCs.
 
Real_Madrid said:
In what way exactly? It's a mini pc with a modified Linux version on it. A console in my mindset is a plug and play device that works for couch gaming, has the big AAA titles and a unified input method.
Click to expand...

The wii u does not fit your definition of console.
 
BennyBlanco said:
Saw one being advertised for $299 on Steam the other day that was the i3/750 ti combo that DF uses in their tests and regularly outperforms consoles. For an extra $25 or something it came with a 960.

Not a bad deal at all for a mini itx. I would throw Windows on it myself though.
Click to expand...

That sounds too good to be true. Can someone link this offer?

Most of Steam Machines were an overpriced pre-built Steam OS PC. Steam can't even guarantee that Steam OS games are going to work on lower specs machines, nor they can enforce any type of quality control.

Steam must babysit Steam OS game development and add incentives for developers to support it. If the gaming performance will drag behind Windows, then there is no use for it.

The entire Steam OS was a Valve's retaliation to Microsoft. It was clear that Windows 8 was designed to work as Apple/Google stores, Valve was concerned that they might lose their position. However, MS shifted their attitude and even released statements like it was their main goal to support Steam.

Also the free part of Steam OS isn't a strong bullet point because Windows license is pretty cheap these days.
 
animlboogy said:
They're just small PCs meant to be used on TVs. A gateway to PC gaming without dealing with picking parts and all that stuff.

There is clearly an audience for that, and that audience likely leans towards current consoles users over people who have already built 5 PCs.

How big that audience is is up for debate. Shipping without Windows is likely not helping their case. But to use GAF as an example, because it's a heavily console leaning audience, people here have been more excited about the various Alienware console-esque form factors for many years, more than any of the PC centric places I visit.

So that's who it's for. It's an effort to get more machines like this out there in hopes that this audience is underserved.
Click to expand...

That might be what Mini PCs are for but if you are going to get Windows anyways because the gaming performance and functionality of the Steam OS is crap , you can't call what you aren't really buying a Steam Machine . Just a Mini Computer . That I agree has a market somewhat , a rather small one , mainly people who want to try PC gaming on a budget.

Without Steam OS , you can't call it a Steam Machine.


Evolution of Metal said:
That sounds too good to be true. Can someone link this offer?

Most of Steam Machines were an overpriced pre-built Steam OS PC. Steam can't even guarantee that Steam OS games are going to work on lower specs machines, nor they can enforce any type of quality control.

Steam must babysit Steam OS game development and add incentives for developers to support it. If the gaming performance will drag behind Windows, then there is no use for it.

The entire Steam OS was a Valve's retaliation to Microsoft. It was clear that Windows 8 was designed to work as Apple/Google stores, Valve was concerned that they might lose their position. However, MS shifted their attitude and even released statements like it was their main goal to support Steam.

Also the free part of Steam OS isn't a strong bullet point because Windows license is pretty cheap these days.
Click to expand...

The Free upgrade to Win 10 helps too.
 
Steam machines remind of the 3DO/Neo-Geo of yesteryear.

It's the fourth horse in the race that's either too expensive or doesn't have any pull going for it.
 
Steam Machines have the same issue that the Steam Controller faces.

It's an amazing gadget for a (relatively) small group of enthusiasts... and completely pointless for everyone else.
 
kenjigreat said:
How does it disguise a PC as a console . I can ask any of my friends who primarily play on Console and they couldn't tell you who makes Steam Machines or the benefits of Steam Machines.

I'm pretty sure everyone here can list some of the benefits of Current generation of consoles and certainly know who makes them.
Click to expand...

Your friends' knowledge of gaming hardware doesn't define what is or isn't a console. You seem to put more value into marketing than functionality.

kenjigreat said:
Exactly , its the ease of use , brainless , put the Disc and works mindset that helps sell consoles against PCs.
Click to expand...

See my Engadget quote above. It is pretty much plug-and-play.
 
JordanN said:
Steam machines remind of the 3DO/Neo-Geo of yesteryear.

It's fourth the horse in the race with zero pull going for it.
Click to expand...

The Neo-Geo was at least Unique with its huge Cartridge . Everyone who owns a regular PC can install steam OS . They just won't because its worse than windows in gaming and utterly useless in functionality.

ricki42 said:
Your friends' knowledge of gaming hardware doesn't define what is or isn't a console. You seem to put more value into marketing than functionality.



See my Engadget quote above. It is pretty much plug-and-play.
Click to expand...


Marketing is what sells any idea to the general consumer audience. I care about functionality , at least on the technical side of games I run most at 4K. Thats all PC gaming has over Consoles the ability to run any program you want and Mods.

Like I said , if people cared about functionality they would have already gotten a PC , thats not the audience you are looking for , why would they get a Steam Machine that runs a garbage OS that has 0 functionality and runs games worse than Windows . If you are going to buy a Steam Machine and install Windows . Its just a Mini-Pc and proves the Steam Machine part of the equation is pointless
 
kenjigreat said:
How does it disguise a PC as a console . I can ask any of my friends who primarily play on Console and they couldn't tell you who makes Steam Machines or the benefits of Steam Machines.

I'm pretty sure everyone here can list some of the benefits of Current generation of consoles and certainly know who makes them.
Click to expand...

Because you take the thing out of the box and put batteries in the controller and go. And you never see a desktop, or need to grab a mouse/kb. The hivemind/windows alpha attempts the same thing and works well. Steamos just goes that little bit farther, albeit at a great cost in functionality. Whether the tradeoff is worth it is besides the point, really.
 
Evolution of Metal said:
That sounds too good to be true. Can someone link this offer?
Click to expand...

It was on monday.

Evolution of Metal said:
Steam must babysit Steam OS game development
Click to expand...

That's not how open platforms work.

Evolution of Metal said:
The entire Steam OS was a Valve's retaliation to Microsoft. It was clear that Windows 8 was designed to work as Apple/Google stores, Valve was concerned that they might lose their position. However, MS shifted their attitude
Click to expand...

No, they're doubling down on the Windows Store with W10, actually.

Evolution of Metal said:
Also the free part of Steam OS isn't a strong bullet point because Windows license is pretty cheap these days.
Click to expand...

It's pretty much the same price that it's always been. Even the free upgrade is a temporary deal.
 
ScatheZombie said:
Steam Machines have the same issue that the Steam Controller faces.

It's an amazing gadget for a (relatively) small group of enthusiasts... and completely pointless for everyone else.
Click to expand...

Well that's what they are aiming for at this point. They aren't pushing it to everybody. I'm one of those enthusiasts and all they have done has been amazing.
 
animlboogy said:
I don't think Valve gives the slightest shit whether you install Windows on it, though. They've been pretty open about that. These PCs lack the Windows license as a built-in cost, and give you something to get up and running with a TV without effort.

A smarter method would probably be figuring out a way to sell them launching into Big Picture over Windows 10, at least as an option. I'm not disputing that. But it does slice a little overhead off the intitial sticker shock if you dump the Windows license.
Click to expand...

If you care anything about performance you are going to run Windows on the Steam Machine.

They might not care for people running Windows but if there isn't a huge install base of Linux/SteamOS Users compared to Windows Users . Nvidia and AMD have less incentive to optimize their drivers for Linux and SteamOS users.
 
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