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Dance Inferno · Feb 1, 2016

Large interconnected map with doors/shortcuts that need to be unlocked? Check
Trial-and-error gameplay formula that thrives on throwing players into the unknown? Check
Oppressive, dark environment that builds suspense and throws ambushes and unforeseen enemies/bosses at the player? Check

I've been trying to finish up a REmaster run recently so I can get to RE0, and it's been pretty uncanny to realize how similar the Dark Souls formula is to old school Resident Evil. They both rely on starting the player at checkpoints (typewriters or bonfires), they both have a trial-and-error gameplay loop, and they both exist in a singular, interconnected world with lore that is generally picked up through items and documents. True, the gameplay in Souls games is probably more engaging, but for a PS1 game I would argue that Resident Evil did in the 90's what it took Souls over a decade to accomplish.

I'm honestly not surprised to discover this since both RE and DS are incredible games with world-class world design. If nothing else it just makes me more excited for Dark Souls 3 and RE2make. If you're a fan of Souls and haven't played old school RE, I would urge you to give it a shot. You'll probably enjoy it more than you expect!

120v · Feb 1, 2016

its a modern interpretation of ... pretty much every game the last 30 years

pizzacat · Feb 1, 2016

120v said:
its a modern interpretation of ... pretty much every game the last 30 years

Even Devil May Cry 2?

Jawmuncher · Feb 1, 2016

No joke saw the title and went "Soulsbourne?Is that a indie game I missed?" I more or less agree though, a lot of those ideas from older games are quite prevalent in those games. With a bit of modern systems in place of course.

Especially when I have seen numerous serious discussions on a new RE to follow Souls like ideas.

rbenchley · Feb 1, 2016

Eh, it's more of a 3D Metroidvania.

Astral Dog · Feb 1, 2016

it has a good atmosphere but im not sure when i play them i think "this is like RE" like,at all.

Yuuichi · Feb 1, 2016

I see the 3D metroidvania way of looking at it, but I agree with OP that souls is a very derivative structure of classic RE. Surprised no one else had noticed this before.

pizzacat said:
Even Devil May Cry 2?

and ddr

and frog fractions

and desert bus

and...

pixxxelz · Feb 1, 2016

rbenchley said:
Eh, it's more of a 3D Metroidvania.

Yup, pretty much.

Skux · Feb 1, 2016

Jawmuncher said:
No joke saw the title and went "Soulsbourne?Is that a indie game I missed?" I more or less agree though, a lot of those ideas from older games are quite prevalent in those games. With a bit of modern systems in place of course.

Especially when I have seen numerous serious discussions on a new RE to follow Souls like ideas.

Same here. I wonder if you could actually get away with calling a game this.

tcrunch · Feb 1, 2016

Dance Inferno said:
Trial-and-error gameplay

Only if you're adventurer #2!

kagamin · Feb 1, 2016

tcrunch said:
Only if you're adventurer #2!

Right-o my dear adventurer.

silva1991 · Feb 1, 2016

To me Soulsborne games remind me of old games in general just because they are some of the least hand-holding games last/current gen.

Rhaknar · Feb 1, 2016

But you dont insert jewels into statues eyes to get keys tho

I miss old school RE

120v · Feb 1, 2016

pizzacat said:
Even Devil May Cry 2?

especially Devil May Cry 2

DMC is a 3D callback to oldschool ninja gaiden, castlevania, ect... games of which the hard as balls gameplay Souls is a throwback to... so it kind of is! in a way

Jawmuncher · Feb 1, 2016

Skux said:
Same here. I wonder if you could actually get away with calling a game this.

I think you could especially if you keep the U in. Wouldn't save you from all the people calling you out though.

TheRedSnifit · Feb 1, 2016

What about the puzzles and ammo conservation? You know, the two things that separate RE from pretty much every other '90s 3D game? Trial-and-error gameplay and maze-style maps were pretty standard design elements back then, even in "dudebro" games like Doom, and were hardly unique to RE.

pizzacat said:
Even Devil May Cry 2?

I think he's joking. "Souls/Bloodborne is the modern incarnation of [whatever old game OP just played]" threads seem to be a monthly affair here.

TriAceJP · Feb 1, 2016

Why does everything have to be 'souls like' and Souls games are the modern day everything?

FloweryMarston · Feb 1, 2016

puzzles?

Graphics Horse · Feb 1, 2016

King's Field predates RE I thought?

dmr87 · Feb 1, 2016

So that's why I love both series.

Jawmuncher said:
No joke saw the title and went "Soulsbourne?Is that a indie game I missed?"

Speaking of indie Souls, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-YatMGBqq0

Flipyap · Feb 1, 2016

Yuuichi said:
and desert bus

Oh, I like the sound of that! Dark Souls is the Desert Bus of action RPGs.

Renekton · Feb 1, 2016

120v said:
its a modern interpretation of ... pretty much every game the last 30 years

including DoA Xtreme

Wagram · Feb 1, 2016

Bloodborne doesn't have a u in it. I miss the old resident evils.

Orayn · Feb 1, 2016

Soulsborne is a modern interpretation of From Software's own older work. If you look into their back catalog, a lot of the combat mechanics, level design, and atmosphere can already be found, just spread among several games and not yet as polished as they would become later on.

The whole "Souls is a modern Zelda 1/Castlevania/RE/etc." thing comes from the way the series suddenly showed up without many people knowing about its precursors. It's not entirely wrong, since Soulsborne shares certain things in common with those games, but they're not really the direct inspiration behind it. I'd highly recommend checking out King's Field: The Ancient City; anyone who's played Souls will instantly start recognizing where the series' design elements came from.

Graphics Horse said:
King's Field predates RE I thought?

It does. The first one (which we never got) came out only a few months after the Playstation launched in Japan.

KodaRuss · Feb 1, 2016

Graphics Horse said:
King's Field predates RE I thought?

Came to post this. Kings Field -> Soulsborne

Muchi Muchi Pink · Feb 1, 2016

No.
I love souls but this is getting ridiculous.

generic_username · Feb 1, 2016

Sub Boss said:
it has a good atmosphere but im not sure when i play them i think "this is like RE" like,at all.

Not old school RE but Bloodborne pays a straight up homage to RE4 in so many places.

Orayn said:
Soulsborne is a modern interpretation of From Software's own older work. If you look into their back catalog, a lot of the combat mechanics, level design, and atmosphere can already be found, just spread among several games and not yet as polished as they would become later on.

The whole "Souls is a modern Zelda 1/Castlevania/RE/etc." thing comes from the way the series suddenly showed up without many people knowing about its precursors. It's not entirely wrong, since Soulsborne shares certain things in common with those games, but they're not really the direct inspiration behind it. I'd highly recommend checking out King's Field: The Ancient City; anyone who's played Souls will instantly start recognizing where the series' design elements came from.

It does. The first one (which we never got) came out only a few months after the Playstation launched in Japan.

Has King's Field aged well? I would love to try it out. I wish I could play it on PS4

Dance Inferno · Feb 1, 2016

Wagram said:
Bloodborne doesn't have a u in it.

Dammit. Thought I spelled that correctly.

DaciaJC · Feb 1, 2016

tcrunch said:
Only if you're adventurer #2!

"Artificial difficulty!"

Orayn · Feb 1, 2016

While we're at it, I'd highly recommend everyone read this EuroGamer article about the development of Demon's Souls.

generic_username said:
Has King's Field aged well? I would love to try it out. I wish I could play it on PS4

I'd say they have, The Ancient City being the best-preserved, and the spinoff Shadow Tower Abyss being the closest to Souls in the most areas. (Abyss is Japan-only but there's a fan translation patch available.)

They use the funky Armored Core control scheme and they're a little slow and ugly, but they're straightforward enough games. Definitely worth trying if only to see where Souls got its start.

Skelter · Feb 1, 2016

120v said:
its a modern interpretation of ... pretty much every game the last 30 years

Fallout 2?

klee123 · Feb 1, 2016

TriAceJP said:
Why does everything have to be 'souls like' and Souls games are the modern day everything?

Yeah, it's getting really stupid. Especially when you come across an indie game, where the devs are more than eager to describe their game as "souls like" as a way to get more attention.

Syf · Feb 1, 2016

Mm that's a big stretch.

Bl@de · Feb 1, 2016

You may think that but like others said it's more like a modern Castlevania and King's Field (which shares a lot with Souls and is older than RE).

Rocwell · Feb 1, 2016

If by "Resident Evil" you mean "Castlevania" then yeah, I'm right there with you OP.

Insolitus · Feb 1, 2016

I don't agree that the Souls series is a modern interpretation of Resident Evil but I do think there's a lot of things modern Resident Evil could learn from the Souls series.

ugh_the_boot · Feb 1, 2016

My 2 fave game series ever but I don't think they are remotely similar. Souls games are usually all about melee combat and Resi games are gun porn.

Resi has very limited monster designs....usually humanoid or mutants whereas Souls......Souls has everything!

Resi basically has never had online incorporated into the campaign like the Souls games except for co-op modes in later games.

generic_username · Feb 1, 2016

Orayn said:
While we're at it, I'd highly recommend everyone read this EuroGamer article about the development of Demon's Souls.

I'd say they have, The Ancient City being the best-preserved, and the spinoff Shadow Tower Abyss being the closest to Souls in the most areas. (Abyss is Japan-only but there's a fan translation patch available.)

They use the funky Armored Core control scheme and they're a little slow and ugly, but they're straightforward enough games. Definitely worth trying if only to see where Souls got its start.

Thanks! Yeah super interested to try it out. Need to find a way to play it as I dont have the older consoles now and only have a PS4 and the Xbox One.

Auto-Reply · Feb 1, 2016

I think it's a D&D interpretion (like most fantasy RPGs) and FROM Software is trying to make this work for a long time with Kings Field (Shadow Tower was very similar).

Ferrio · Feb 1, 2016

I don't see it.

The souls game are a modern interpretation of King's Field.

RE (least the originals) was a modern take on the adventure game. Find X combine with Y to proceed type stuff. Throw in a bit of janky combat with a horror theme and boom RE was born.

Dance Inferno · Feb 1, 2016

Rocwell said:
If by "Resident Evil" you mean "Castlevania" then yeah, I'm right there with you OP.

I disagree with everyone calling Souls a riff on the Metroidvania formula. Metroidvania implies getting new abilities that allow you access to previously inaccessible areas. For example a double jump that allows you to reach a high ledge, or the ability to shrink into a ball and being able to access small tunnels that were previously inaccessible to you. Souls and RE do not do that. They both rely on exploration leading to keys/shortcuts that then open up more of the map. You do not get new skills or abilities.

Mr_L · Feb 1, 2016

I honestly see them as more of a modern interpretation of Castlevania, but that's me.

Orochinagis · Feb 1, 2016

rbenchley said:
Eh, it's more of a 3D Metroidvania.

Dark Souls 2 yep, Dark Souls 1 nope, BB is more like a hub esque world with 5 branches

Abandapart82 · Feb 1, 2016

rbenchley said:
Eh, it's more of a 3D Metroidvania.

I just told my buddy this after I played SOTN recently. I'm a huge souls/bourne fan but I've never played SOTN until just recently.

Theosmeo · Feb 1, 2016

Reminds me of old castlevania games, with encounters that are brutal if you don't put in enough thought. The RPG elements don't line up as well in mine tho

camby · Feb 1, 2016

Mr_L said:
I honestly see them as more of a modern interpretation of Castlevania, but that's me.

Agreed especially sotn.

Insolitus · Feb 1, 2016

Dance Inferno said:
I disagree with everyone calling Souls a riff on the Metroidvania formula. Metroidvania implies getting new abilities that allow you access to previously inaccessible areas. For example a double jump that allows you to reach a high ledge, or the ability to shrink into a ball and being able to access small tunnels that were previously inaccessible to you. Souls and RE do not do that. They both rely on exploration leading to keys/shortcuts that then open up more of the map. You do not get new skills or abilities.

Metroid is that way but Castlevania post SOTN is more open ended along with being action RPG so it's very similar to the Souls games just in 2D. RE before RE5 on the other hand was very puzzle focused and while you were free to wander around the amount of routes you could actually go down was very limited until you did things in the right order, which is more like Metroid.

LiquidSolid · Feb 1, 2016

I'm not seeing it. First, because I don't see how old school RE is a trial-and-error game. Second because while the level and encounter design were parts of old school RE, they weren't exactly what I'd consider vital components. Old school RE was all about resource management, so if any modern game is the equivalent of them, it's probably The Last of Us.

If Souls-likes are a modern day equivalent of anything, it's the dungeon crawler genre, King's Field in particular.

Coda · Feb 1, 2016

It's similar in ways and very different in others. They definitely both are designed to scare the crap out of you though.

Papercuts · Feb 1, 2016

Don't really see it. Primarily old school RE was puzzle based and heavily focused on managing resources, which is not much of a Souls element at all.

Modernization of castlevania, though, I'd agree with.

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