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WMS Pachter "The Wii's gonna crush, it's going to do really well" & other predictions

ziran

Member
posted?

Next Gen - Analyzing the Analyst:

The first half of the article is about handhelds and is as expected, the second half is about home consoles:
...Of course, the big news this week (and maybe the week after that and the week after that), is how Sony slashed its projected PS3 launch shipment target from two million to 500,000, and delayed the European launch of the system until March 2007--so much for a worldwide launch.

According to Pachter, the delay is likely to be detrimental to European retailers this holiday season, but US retailers will be "largely unaffected." In the long run, though, he said that the launch problems will be forgotten in time, and "not a big deal" in the grand scheme of the PS3's lifecycle. Comparisons to back up this belief could be drawn from the inadequate PS2 launch supplies, as well as the iffy Xbox 360 launch last year. With both consoles, the troubled infant stages of their lives have faded almost into distant memory.

Pacther acknowledged that Xbox 360 sales would remain strong, with monthly sales of 250,000 units of Xbox 360 in August and September, up to 400,000 units in October, and between 750,000 – 1.25 million units monthly in November and December.

However, as the Xbox 360 and PS3 have been thoroughly analyzed, what's to be said about the Wii? WMS expects the sales of three million hardware units in the US and Europe by year-end, and Pachter had perhaps the most optimistic words for Nintendo and its next console.

"The Wii's going to crush," Pacther said simply. "It's going to do really well."

And what about the third party publishers that have sat back and been somewhat lacking in their support of the Wii? It seems that after E3 in May, the gears started turning in some publishers' heads, and they realized that Wii software needs to be accounted for, else they'll miss out on a significant source of revenue. Publishing giant Electronic Arts even made clear during its most recent quarterly financial call that it would be moving resources to both Wii and DS development in light of the positive reception and buzz surrounding those platforms.

Pachter continued his confidence in Nintendo's take on console gaming. Referring to third parties, he said, "They'll all be there. They're all going there. Anybody realizes now that the Wii is going to be a lot bigger than everybody thought six months ago. We all heard about it a year ago, but I don't think that we realized how impressive it was until we saw it at E3. ... Some people thought that it would turn out to be kind of a gimmicky toy, and it turned out to be kind of a cool thing.

"I think the EyeToy is a gimmicky toy, and the concept of the EyeToy and Wii really is the same. I mean, the concept; there's interaction. So I think the publisher reaction to the Wii when it was first proposed was the same as the reaction to the EyeToy. Now, I think they're saying it's not, and you can really make some games that are cool and that are different, that people want to play."

He continued, "At the same time, you're seeing the success of these Brain Age and Brain Training games that you use the stylus to play. People are like, 'Wow, maybe the consumer wants to be more interactive with the device.' It makes sense."

Nintendo's onto something. They're not stupid people. It's really impressive what they've been doing, and [they're making] a really bold move, and it's working so far."


Just another guy's opinion

So, right now, analysts, including the centerpiece of this article, the oft-quoted Michael Pachter, are all reacting to the developments this week. Some were surprised, some say they expected it. It's quite possible (or quite probable, rather) that something absolutely unexpected and/or crazy will happen that throws these guys for yet another loop, nixing pretty much every aforementioned prediction and numerical forecast. Still, we think that it's important to understand where these unique folks known as videogame analysts are coming from, especially in light of this week's craziness.

Contrary to popular belief, they're not just pulling these numbers out of their asses.
Interesting article.
 

sprsk

force push the doodoo rock
According to Pachter, the delay is likely to be detrimental to European retailers this holiday season, but US retailers will be "largely unaffected." In the long run, though, he said that the launch problems will be forgotten in time, and "not a big deal" in the grand scheme of the PS3's lifecycle. Comparisons to back up this belief could be drawn from the inadequate PS2 launch supplies, as well as the iffy Xbox 360 launch last year. With both consoles, the troubled infant stages of their lives have faded almost into distant memory.

I feel slightly validated.
 
sp0rsk said:
Comparisons to back up this belief could be drawn from the inadequate PS2 launch supplies, as well as the iffy Xbox 360 launch last year. With both consoles, the troubled infant stages of their lives have faded almost into distant memory.

Yeah, because the PS2 and Xbox 360 both launched in marketplaces with firmly entrenched competitors. Oh, wait...
 

beelzebozo

Jealous Bastard
i'm as excited about wii as the next fella, but its "market disruption" strategy seems like it would be an analyst darling; in a sense, it just seems like good business, and so i think a lot of analysts jump on the wagon because it follows a path that isn't traditional.
 
He's always been bullish on Sony, but now Nintendo. He should be a favorite here now as long as he keeps away from turning bullish on the Xbox 360. Many of you will have to go into your defense force positions to refute him at that point. :)
 

sprsk

force push the doodoo rock
Nexus Zero said:
Yeah, because the PS2 and Xbox 360 both launched in marketplaces with firmly entrenched competitors. Oh, wait...


We went over this in the other thread.
 
Nexus Zero said:
Yeah, because the PS2 and Xbox 360 both launched in marketplaces with firmly entrenched competitors. Oh, wait...

Completely irrelevant. It'll succeed or fail on its own merits. It's the sequel to the most succesful console ever, a console which is still outselling 360 everywhere on Earth. Outside message boards, Sony still have more mindshare in the gaming space than MS do.
 
Okay, can the 14th just hurry up and arrive, to get this over and done.

We’ll have NPD data tonight, we’ll ponder that through to Monday, then we’ll start getting rumblings and leaks about what’ll happen on Wednesday/Thursday next week.
 

ziran

Member
Pureauthor said:
I laugh at the last line.
given the accuracy of analysts in recent memory it is amusing.

beelzebozo said:
i'm as excited about wii as the next fella, but its "market disruption" strategy seems like it would be an analyst darling; in a sense, it just seems like good business, and so i think a lot of analysts jump on the wagon because it follows a path that isn't traditional.
yeah, like all the analysts did with the ds...
 

beelzebozo

Jealous Bastard
ziran said:
yeah, like all the analysts did with the ds.

point well taken--but then again, you bring up an even better point: the ds set a precedent for the notion of "disruptive strategy," and so it further provokes the stream of analysts wanting to rectify their missteps on predictions of the ds/psp market share dynamic.

then again, they are analysts, so once you start bringing precedent into the equation, it's probably justified. but this sort of alternative business strategy seems straight out of a textbook, so i imagine analysts and business majors eat that shit up with a silver spoon.
 

jarrod

Banned
HocusPocus said:
He's always been bullish on Sony, but now Nintendo. He should be a favorite here now as long as he keeps away from turning bullish on the Xbox 360. Many of you will have to go into your defense force positions to refute him at that point. :)
I dunno, those 360 estimates seem rather bullish themselves...
 

Juice

Member
The analyst love-in over the Wii is a bit of a red herring.

I've thought they were mostly full of shit for the last decade, and their track record has pretty closely followed that assumption. So even though the things he is saying seem to make sense, I think they have far more to do with Nintendo's vastly, incredibly, over-the-toppily improved PR-speak. They're no longer talking like a rebellious hobby that just won't die and they're suddenly talking about tactics and strategies that are all the rage in a Tech industry that's going through a purging-for-efficiency process.

I think the primary reason business analysts are loving Wii is the circumstantial buzz about it (which history's shown doesn't have a ton to do with long-term performance) and the number of times Reggie quotes these on stage:

blueocean.jpg


and

the_long_tail_-_the_book.jpg


and

World%20is%20flat.jpg
 

rastex

Banned
Man, just watch IGN's video on playing the Wii. It's just not going to work. You'll see! You'll ALL SEE!
 
sp0rsk said:
We went over this in the other thread.
yeah... and now we really do have a complete set of analysts predicting everyone the winner! the sticker album is complete.

i like how they say 'The Wii's gonna crush'. I'm pretty sure you have to have another noun in there for that to make sense.
 

Y2Kev

TLG Fan Caretaker Est. 2009
beermonkey@tehbias said:
Duh, it was cold and in the water the first time everybody saw it.

Nintendo will have to watch their marketshare and be weary of...significant shrinkage.

We're taking wii jokes to a whole new level of sophistication.
 
D

Deleted member 1235

Unconfirmed Member
rastex said:
Man, just watch IGN's video on playing the Wii. It's just not going to work. You'll see! You'll ALL SEE!

I've just got done watching the vids of the first 2 monkey mini games and it seems to work rather well.
 
rastex said:
Man, just watch IGN's video on playing the Wii. It's just not going to work. You'll see! You'll ALL SEE!
ehem.

*playing* is believing. not *watching someone else play* is believing.

and i have played and while some of the games needed a lot of work on their controls, some of them were shaping up really nicely.
 

Jeff-DSA

Member
rastex said:
Man, just watch IGN's video on playing the Wii. It's just not going to work. You'll see! You'll ALL SEE!

I've already played it and it works very well. Your stupid 4,000 word assays don't mean jack when compared with actual hands-on time.
 
Zenith said:
Is there a single scenario that doesn't have an "analyst" predicting it?
not now no :)

i asked the same question the other day and someone said 'no one has pinned the Wii as the winner'.
 
Juice said:
The analyst love-in over the Wii is a bit of a red herring.

I've thought they were mostly full of shit for the last decade, and their track record has pretty closely followed that assumption. So even though the things he is saying seem to make sense, I think they have far more to do with Nintendo's vastly, incredibly, over-the-toppily improved PR-speak. They're no longer talking like a rebellious hobby that just won't die and they're suddenly talking about tactics and strategies that are all the rage in a Tech industry that's going through a purging-for-efficiency process.

That's kind of the thing. They have good momentum now, but 2 years in when they're up against a $200 360 with games 2 cycles ahead of Gears of War, even if they're down at $99 by that point the horsepower disparity will make them look really crusty. Wii scan threads are rough already, they're going to get rougher as things go on.

Of course, the DS effect could taske hold as well...the thing's so cheap that everybody owns one and starts evangelizing. But I don't think the home market's going to be as easy as portable was for them.
 
LiveFromKyoto said:
That's kind of the thing. They have good momentum now, but 2 years in when they're up against a $200 360 with games 2 cycles ahead of Gears of War, even if they're down at $99 by that point the horsepower disparity will make them look really crusty. Wii scan threads are rough already, they're going to get rougher as things go on.

Of course, the DS effect could taske hold as well...the thing's so cheap that everybody owns one and starts evangelizing. But I don't think the home market's going to be as easy as portable was for them.
Yeah and the PSP will win because its graphics are awesome. And the XBox will kill the PS2 because it games look sooooo good.

Its not about the looks. The PS2 and DS have shown, if you offer someone the game they really want, they'll buy the system to play it on.
 

KINGMOKU

Member
LiveFromKyoto said:
That's kind of the thing. They have good momentum now, but 2 years in when they're up against a $200 360 with games 2 cycles ahead of Gears of War, even if they're down at $99 by that point the horsepower disparity will make them look really crusty. Wii scan threads are rough already, they're going to get rougher as things go on.

Of course, the DS effect could taske hold as well...the thing's so cheap that everybody owns one and starts evangelizing. But I don't think the home market's going to be as easy as portable was for them.
Your assuming that Wii games will stay stagnent? They will show no graphical impovements over time?
 

Ulairi

Banned
When I played the Wii, I enjoyed the games. Some of them need a lot of work but I can see that in the future, things will fall into place. I think the Wii will be a lot like the DS, it will take a year but then we'll see killer uses for the wiimote.
 

rastex

Banned
Ranger X said:
Almost nice article. But it's like you only thought and developed the cons and completely dimissed the pros. Should i be surprised by your tag?

Why list the pros when everybody that's interested in the article already knows them?

I'm not saying that the Wii won't sell, well I am, but really sensational title aside, the article is more about the reasons that I believe will affect the Wii's performance in a negative manner. People are free to agree and disagree with each point, and how much of an impact a point may have.

I'm not going to do all the thinking for people.
 

ethelred

Member
rastex said:
Why list the pros when everybody that's interested in the article already knows them?

I'm not saying that the Wii won't sell, well I am, but really sensational title aside, the article is more about the reasons that I believe will affect the Wii's performance in a negative manner. People are free to agree and disagree with each point, and how much of an impact a point may have.

I'm not going to do all the thinking for people.

My Dreamcast did all my thinking for me. Is this because you're an Xbox?
 

Stinkles

Clothed, sober, cooperative
I agree with some of his points, but 3rd parties and Nintendo are lousy bedfellows.

Nintendo will have all the best Wii games and they will completely overshadow any efforts by 3rd parties and except for multiplatform franchises like Madden, there will be no room for traction.

The problem will be exacerbated this time by the massive differences in hardware between the Wii and the other two. Capcom can't port Dead Rising and Valve can't port Half Life, so it's Wii-wiggle games or nothing and Nintendo will have the better ones.

Don't get me wrong, the Wii will do great - but really only for Nintendo. That's part of Nintendo's plan.
 

rastex

Banned
Bud, don't believe anything, use your own head!

I'm just wrote that piece to give points I didn't see covered.
 
V

Vilix

Unconfirmed Member
beelzebozo said:
i'm as excited about wii as the next fella, but its "market disruption" strategy seems like it would be an analyst darling; in a sense, it just seems like good business, and so i think a lot of analysts jump on the wagon because it follows a path that isn't traditional.

Great opening. But you should've added

beelzebozo said:
However, analysis of any industry is hit or miss. And in the videogame industry analyst have rarely been able to speculate what the future holds.

My point is is that while the Wii might be a great value for the masses, I think the PS3 is going to come across as a very cool things for the same people who bought the PS2. Just like the iPod, people aren't going to care for the price. They are going to see it as a cool thing they have to have and will buy it. Yes, it sounds very retarded. But when has common sense ever really factored into buying a luxury?
 
rastex said:
Bud, don't believe anything, use your own head!

I'm just wrote that piece to give points I didn't see covered.
the really compressed low resolution you tube videos convinced me of the massive graphical disparity between wii games and xbox 360.
 

jarrod

Banned
Stinkles said:
I agree with some of his points, but 3rd parties and Nintendo are lousy bedfellows.

Nintendo will have all the best Wii games and they will completely overshadow any efforts by 3rd parties and except for multiplatform franchises like Madden, there will be no room for traction.

The problem will be exacerbated this time by the massive differences in hardware between the Wii and the other two. Capcom can't port Dead Rising and Valve can't port Half Life, so it's Wii-wiggle games or nothing and Nintendo will have the better ones.

Don't get me wrong, the Wii will do great - but really only for Nintendo. That's part of Nintendo's plan.
Depends on the 3rd party really... if anything, I'd imagine it'll be mainly the mountain of western 3rd party ports that'll do the flopping, rather than the surviving. It'll probably lead to EA/Activision/THQ/Ubisoft/Midway/etc scaling back support in the coming years too, after their post E3 porting frenzy.

I think SEGA, Bandai Namco and Square Enix specifically will probably manage to do exceptionally well on Wii though. Again, Nintendo's always dominated their own platforms, but there's always been room for some level of notable 3rd party success. Even GameCube and N64 managed that.
 

ziran

Member
Juice said:
The analyst love-in over the Wii is a bit of a red herring.

I've thought they were mostly full of shit for the last decade, and their track record has pretty closely followed that assumption. So even though the things he is saying seem to make sense, I think they have far more to do with Nintendo's vastly, incredibly, over-the-toppily improved PR-speak. They're no longer talking like a rebellious hobby that just won't die and they're suddenly talking about tactics and strategies that are all the rage in a Tech industry that's going through a purging-for-efficiency process.

I think the primary reason business analysts are loving Wii is the circumstantial buzz about it (which history's shown doesn't have a ton to do with long-term performance) and the number of times Reggie quotes these on stage:
i agree analysts are generally sucky at predictions but the main part of what pachter's saying is there's a big audience for something different, which is difficult to argue with. especially since being different is what made nintendo so successful as a videogames company in the first place, so even the idea behind ds's strategy isn't new to them.


DefectiveReject said:
Yeah and the PSP will win because its graphics are awesome. And the XBox will kill the PS2 because it games look sooooo good.

Its not about the looks. The PS2 and DS have shown, if you offer someone the game they really want, they'll buy the system to play it on.
exactly.

wii's success depends on its games not its graphics. sure, you'll have some of the hardcore bitching and moaning because the graphics aren't next gen enough, but what's new?

the way literally nobody expected ds to succeed the way it has expanding the market and appealing to new and returning gamers, primarily because of the graphics, shows the unbalanced view the hardcore has on the state of videogames. imo the gap between the hardcore and casual majority is going to be wider than ever this coming gen.
 
the PS3's favors the 360 alot more then the Wii,
GAF and the internet has alot of pull on the Wii, but that`s not the real world.

Euro-Bubba who wants Assassin's Creed in Europe and can't purchase a PS3 is more likley to buy a 360 ... like that

Euro-Bubba who wants Sonic The Hedgehog and can't purchase a PS3 is more likely to buy a 360... like that
 

beelzebozo

Jealous Bastard
Vilix said:
Great opening. But you should've added

My point is is that while the Wii might be a great value for the masses, I think the PS3 is going to come across as a very cool things for the same people who bought the PS2. Just like the iPod, people aren't going to care for the price. They are going to see it as a cool thing they have to have and will buy it. Yes, it sounds very retarded. But when has common sense ever really factored into buying a luxury?

that the future isn't sure was implicit in what i said, i thought. at least it was implied in the skepticism of their reasons for predicting a victory.

but i also think your predictions of what the future holds are as unstable as pachter's, if not more so considering he's a professional.
 
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