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When did Arcades become such a ripoff?

L

Lagamorph

Member
So I had some time to kill before I went to see Deadpool yesterday, and for the first time in probably 10 years I decided to have a look at the arcade in the cinema. For the most part it was shitty gambling stuff (Y'know those machines that push pennies back and forth or the 'prize' machines that are nearly impossible to win) but one game that caught my eye was the Star Wars Battle Pod. It looked pretty sweet, a flightstick setup with a giant projected screen in a cockpit view space shooter. Given that I've been craving a new Rogue Squadron style game lately, and Elite just doesn't satisfy that itch, I had to give it a go.

Sure, it was £2 per play, but I figured what the hey. So I get in, take off my jacket, settle in and put in my money. Get a mission select, figure I'll go for the start with the Battle of Yavin, a nice epic space battle to set the tone, plus get used to the controls.
Naturally, everything went great, shooting down TIE Fighters all over the place and eventually blowing up the Death Star, whoo! Ok, I'm all pumped up now, ready to blast my way through Star Wars as far as I can before I get blown up......and then I'm asked for more money to continue to the next level.

What? I thought arcade games only asked you for more money when you died, not when you win and are just wanting to continue to the next level. That's how it was the last time I was in an arcade. What a fucking jip! I didn't die, I didn't lose, so I expected to be able to continue! Not to be asked for more money just to carry on because I won! Are all arcade games like this now? Does Time Crisis ask you for more money when you get to the end of a chapter now? It sure as hell never used to.


Besides arcades being a total rip off now, the other thing I learned was that if someone doesn't make a VR Star Wars dogfighter then human intelligence has sunk far lower than anyone thought.
 
B

Beer Monkey

Member
Find a barcade. Buy $5 drinks of soda, beer of food, play free for hours (our locals do charge 50c for pinball, but standups are free). It's the new model.
 
jetsetnickradio

jetsetnickradio

Member
Honestly, to most users paying per level probably sounds like way more fun than playing a game purposely designed with cheap deaths to get you to spend more money. It's less intimidating to those with less skill. I can see why they would use this pay model.
 
poodaddy

poodaddy

Member
Beer Monkey said:
Find a barcade. Buy $5 drinks of soda, beer of food, play free for hours (our locals do charge 50c for pinball, but standups are free). It's the new model.
Click to expand...

You know of any places like this in the Tacoma or Lakewood WA area or what I'd need to search to find them? Sounds like my idea of heaven to be honest.
 
M

Maintenance

Member
Beer Monkey said:
Find a barcade. Buy $5 drinks of soda, beer of food, play free for hours (our locals do charge 50c for pinball, but standups are free). It's the new model.
Click to expand...

This, I used to go to one here and loved setting the high score on the shmups there. People only wanted to play MK and SF most of the time.
 
S

Stalk

Member
Lagamorph said:
Sadly that's about 255 miles away from me :(
Click to expand...

What a shame :c another one I know of is in Aberdeen, my mate is involved in the local FGC and they do odds and bods. You are right though other than that, slim pickings. I know the national video game museum in Nottingham does stuff too.
 
P

ponpo

( ≖‿≖)
Lagamorph said:
What? I thought arcade games only asked you for more money when you died, not when you win and are just wanting to continue to the next level. That's how it was the last time I was in an arcade. What a fucking jip! I didn't die, I didn't lose, so I expected to be able to continue! Not to be asked for more money just to carry on because I won! Are all arcade games like this now? Does Time Crisis ask you for more money when you get to the end of a chapter now? It sure as hell never used to.
Click to expand...

No, but this isn't new. It depends on the game. I can play a shmup and use a single credit to beat the game or play a fighting game and sit for hours if I keep winning.

Rhythm games and other stuff have fixed limits per play though. One credit in most of what I play now is 3 songs, then have to pay up.
 
Haunted

Haunted

Member
Honestly, that seems much more sensible from a psychological standpoint compared to challenging the player to overcome almost impossible odds.

I think the current generation of young players who I assume are targeted by modern arcade games reacts much better to positive reinforcement ("yeah, I did it, that was great, I had fun, let's continue") compared to being challenged and dying (this sucks, now I have to do the same level again, I'll do something else).

It's a generational difference in expectations and how you will be treated by a game.
 
L

Lagamorph

Member
The issue with this model though is that it hits you both ways. You gotta pay more to continue if you win, but if you die you still gotta pay more to continue as well. At least on the old model you only got stung once rather than twice.
 
C

copelandmaster

Member
Lagamorph said:
What? I thought arcade games only asked you for more money when you died, not when you win and are just wanting to continue to the next level. That's how it was the last time I was in an arcade. What a fucking jip! I didn't die, I didn't lose, so I expected to be able to continue! Not to be asked for more money just to carry on because I won! Are all arcade games like this now? Does Time Crisis ask you for more money when you get to the end of a chapter now? It sure as hell never used to.
Click to expand...

No, Time Crisis 5 doesn't do that.

This is the default business model for the "dome" arcade platform. Mach Storm Dogfight, another 180 degree pod game, is the same way. It pretty much just these pod games, as well as the Namco/Capcom/Konami Bemanai rhythm game series that do this. With those games, you are limited to a certain number of songs per credit.

Go to a Round 1/ D&B and you'd see that the majority of the core arcade games are still skill based. They'll try their damnedest to kill the shit out of you though. TC5 is much more aggressive & gimmicky / pass-fail than its predecessors. Jurassic Park 2015, while extremely fun, can be very egregious. One time, I failed the final step of a QTE to trap a dinosaur at the very end of a level. The game took away a life AND made me shoot through the last part of a 5-7 minute psycho gauntlet enemy rush all over again.
 
S

shortsFortallPeople

Banned
Jip is a misspelling of gyp, which come from gypsy. It's an offensive term

Gyp:

The word "gyp" now means "to cheat or swindle." It is essentially a condensing of the word "gypsies," who throughout history have been stereotyped as a group that cheats and swindles people. Before the contemporary definition of "gypsy," which is essentially just a "nomadic person," "gypsy" was a slur used to refer to the Eastern European Romanies.
Click to expand...

Just thought OP should know.
 
H

Hasemo

(；・∀・)ﾊｯ?
Luckily arcades here in Japan are still alive and kicking (although profits keep dropping iirc) and are full of new, fun games.
 
P

Piers

Member
Last game I recall doing that was Mario Kart Arcade GP, where you had to pay for each course into order to finish a cup.
 
WaterAstro

WaterAstro

Member
The only relevant arcades now are the high profile ones from Japan, and they cost that much over there as they do here. $1-2 pre play for racing games. Sometimes people are lining up for it that you'd see rows of dollar coins across the screen. Then you have the picture booths that are like $5.

My friend who own one of these arcades told me that there's no money in quarter priced machines. You pay $2 to play DDR, which last about 5 minutes, and that's a ton of money especially when it was the hottest thing and people were crowding those machines.
 
Haunted

Haunted

Member
Lagamorph said:
The issue with this model though is that it hits you both ways. You gotta pay more to continue if you win, but if you die you still gotta pay more to continue as well. At least on the old model you only got stung once rather than twice.
Click to expand...
Oh I was only saying its effectiveness amongst the younger generation is probably higher, it's not more fair or a better deal for customers than past models or anything.
 
R

Rich!

Member
shortsFortallPeople said:
Jip is a misspelling of gyp, which come from gypsy. It's an offensive term



Just thought OP should know.
Click to expand...

Why would anyone mind? Jip is a common term for being ripped off that is widely used. Hell, its even used on bloody EastEnders quite often!

Might as well ban all slang I guess rather than run the very, very, very miniscule risk of possibly irritating someone. Half of the Brit slang around has questionable origins, but language evolves.

Anyway, I agree about the arcades. We only have one around where I live sadly and its a DDR and ripoff hell.
 
8

8-Bit Sunset

Banned
Hasemo said:
Luckily arcades here in Japan are still alive and kicking (although profits keep dropping iirc) and are full of new, fun games.
Click to expand...

Time Crisis 3, ¥50 for 3 credits! YES!
Although arcades around me in the North are mostly dead and full of card battle kid games and anpanman popcorn machines!
 
F

Fusilli Craig

Member
Lagamorph said:
The issue with this model though is that it hits you both ways. You gotta pay more to continue if you win, but if you die you still gotta pay more to continue as well. At least on the old model you only got stung once rather than twice.
Click to expand...

Speaking to that, and alluding to the post above it that discusses positive reinforcement, when you were playing the game did you get the sense, in hindsight, it would've been difficult to lose? "Challenge" is often being swept aside in the name of "an experience" and for that reason I think you see the pay model you're taking umbrage with.


chronic_archaic said:
News to me - thanks for the tip, however I find it strange it's genuinely offensive. Aren't the only people referred to gypsys the ones who do scummy stuff? Unless I'm missing something.
Click to expand...

What a delightfully appropriate username to have made such an ignorant post.
 
L

Lagamorph

Member
shortsFortallPeople said:
Jip is a misspelling of gyp, which come from gypsy. It's an offensive term



Just thought OP should know.
Click to expand...

First I've heard of that to be honest. Jip is a pretty common term in the UK to mean 'rip off' and is used on TV pretty often. Given how easy it is to complain about anything offensive on UK TV, due to having a central independent body specifically for that, with complaints numbering in the tens generally making the news in some way (Especially if it were a high profile program like Eastenders with a high viewership), it doesn't seem that people are complaining about it being offensive, in the UK at least.

Fusilli Craig said:
Speaking to that, and alluding to the post above it that discusses positive reinforcement, when you were playing the game did you get the sense, in hindsight, it would've been difficult to lose? "Challenge" is often being swept aside in the name of "an experience" and for that reason I think you see the pay model you're taking umbrage with.
Click to expand...
Well, the mission I played was listed as the 'easiest' of the game. I guess the only way to confirm would be to go back and try out the one listed as the hardest. Next time I go to the cinema I'll probably do that for the sake of comparison.
 
S

shortsFortallPeople

Banned
Rich! said:
Why would anyone mind? Jip is a common term for being ripped off that is widely used. Hell, its even used on bloody EastEnders quite often!

Might as well ban all slang I guess rather than run the very, very, very miniscule risk of possibly irritating someone. Half of the Brit slang around has questionable origins, but language evolves.

Anyway, I agree about the arcades. We only have one around where I live sadly and its a DDR and ripoff hell.
Click to expand...
I mean you're free to speak however you like but that doesn't change the origins of the word and that its use perpetuates a stereotype.
 
S

sprsk

force push the doodoo rock
Re Gipsy Slur, I did not know either, but funny thing I saw this thread title and immediately made that connection. It really makes sense now that I think about it.

Kinda fucked up that it's basically part of our normal language.
 
L

Lagamorph

Member
Oni Jazar said:
That Star Wars pod game sounds awesome.
Click to expand...
It was, I'd love a VR home version, though it would definitely need a HOTAS setup too.


sprsk said:
Re Gipsy Slur, I did not know either, but funny thing I saw this thread title and immediately made that connection. It really makes sense now that I think about it.

Kinda fucked up that it's basically part of our normal language.
Click to expand...
Language evolves.
The phrase "no can do" was originally a racist slur against the Chinese that mocked their English, moron used to be an insult against people with learning difficulties, but now they've completely lost those meanings.
 
G

Greddleok

Member
Probably when people stopped going to them.

That's likely to be rose tinted specs talking, and they were just always a gyp, designed to suck your pockets dry of money.
 
L

Lagamorph

Member
Greddleok said:
That's likely to be rose tinted specs talking, and they were just always a gyp, designed to suck your pockets dry of money.
Click to expand...

True, but at least before you had a chance to potentially get through with minimal spend if you were good enough. Now that chance has been removed entirely.
 
D

DukeBobby

Member
There's a great place in Bury in Greater Manchester.

£10 entry, but all of the arcade cabinets (of which there are loads) are free to play. There's also pinball machines, consoles, and cheap food and drink.

I went there with a Gaffer a few weeks ago and it was a lot of fun.
 
Q

qualitydisc

Member
Lagamorph said:
Language evolves.
The phrase "no can do" was originally a racist slur against the Chinese that mocked their English, moron used to be an insult against people with learning difficulties, but now they've completely lost those meanings.
Click to expand...

The English phrase "Long time no see" may also be of Chinese pidgin origin, though I don't know if it was meant to be insulting
 
J

jabberwocker

Banned
When havent they had this is some form? I mean is inserting $.50 for each continue in dragons lair in 1983 (which only lasted for about 10 seconds at the time for me) any different? Alst of car based driving arcade games have followed this type of format as well.

This is why arcades arent really around. Better quality games at home.
 
N

NoblesseOblige

Banned
shortsFortallPeople said:
Jip is a misspelling of gyp, which come from gypsy. It's an offensive term



Just thought OP should know.
Click to expand...

Glad someone said it. Though I'm far enough removed from my Romani ancestry that nobody would really guess it, I still get annoyed by the usage of "Gyp/Gip". Though I may mostly feel that way due to the ignorance in its use more than anything.
 
old

old

Member
jetsetnickradio said:
Honestly, to most users paying per level probably sounds like way more fun than playing a game purposely designed with cheap deaths to get you to spend more money. It's less intimidating to those with less skill. I can see why they would use this pay model.
Click to expand...

Yeah, this is the reverse side of those arcade games where anyone shy of godtier accumulates enough damage to require multiple credits to get through them.
 
E

epmode

Member
Greddleok said:
That's likely to be rose tinted specs talking, and they were just always a gyp, designed to suck your pockets dry of money.
Click to expand...

Sort of. The best arcade games were hard as nails but it was possible to get good enough to last a long time on a single credit.
 
C

Cleve

Member
chronic_archaic said:
News to me - thanks for the tip, however I find it strange it's genuinely offensive. Aren't the only people referred to gypsys the ones who do scummy stuff? Unless I'm missing something.
Click to expand...

Gypsies are a term for an ethnic group, the Romani people. Replace the term with Jewing someone, or the more offensive variants for other groups to put it in context.

More on topic, garbage games like Mad Dog Mcree used to cost $2+ back in the day, when that was a way more considerable cost. The sega hologram games and anything on a laserdisc were overpriced as fuck too.

Lagamorph said:
First I've heard of that to be honest. Jip is a pretty common term in the UK to mean 'rip off' and is used on TV pretty often.
Click to expand...

So we'll toss it in with Golliwogs?
 
M

Manmademan

Member
Beer Monkey said:
Find a barcade. Buy $5 drinks of soda, beer of food, play free for hours (our locals do charge 50c for pinball, but standups are free). It's the new model.
Click to expand...

yep. there's one of these in philly. it's a lot of fun, but the games are exclusively the older arcade machines from the early 90s and older.

questionable if the model would sustain a lot of newer more expensive arcade machines. Also, dave and busters is complete trash now. went in there and it was all giant iphone games. turned around and "noped" the hell out of there
 
G

Greddleok

Member
epmode said:
Sort of. The best arcade games were hard as nails but it was possible to get good enough to last a long time on a single credit.
Click to expand...

I was making that statement in terms of arcades, not individual games. There certainly were individual games which you could get amazing at and never pay much, but there are also a bunch of games which force you to lose no matter what.

Arcades are designed to suck you dry.
 
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