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How did Sony first/second party go from dominant last gen to a non factor this gen?

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sant

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I loved games like Uncharted 1/2, Killzone 2, Infamous, Resistance 1/2, Warhawk on PS3 early on. One thing they all had in common is they were new and fresh games. These games made me excited to own a PS3.

Say what you want about GT5:P but at least we got a GT game 18 months after launch.

How did Sony manage to fuck up their first/second party lineup on the PS4? No new IPs to speak of, the new KZ and Infamous games were underwhelming. Naughty Dog seems to be the only above average dev that they have.

New IPs off the top of my head:
The Order 1886 (garbage)
Driveclub (completely broken at launch and for months after)

Before the PS4 came out we heard a lot of talk about how it will be easier to make games for because of its PC based architecture. So where are all the games? The PS3 had a much more interesting lineup.

Polyphony Digital seems to be completely incompetent and I have written them off as a serious game developer. GT5 felt stuck in the past in many ways and I never bothered with GT6. We are approaching the 4th holiday lineup and there is no GT in sight. Nobody knows what the hell GT Sport is or when it is coming out,

I can't even remember the last game I played on PS4, and after Uncharted 4 I probably will not be playing anything else for a while on it.
 
hmm, good point. and the PS4 is supposed to be easier to work on as well..

OleGunner said:
You're panicking.

This year we have UC4, TLG (re-confirmed by Shu on Kinda Funny), Gravity Rush 2, Horizon Zero Dawn and The Tomorrow Children (beta was amazing)

I consider the 2016 of Playstation to be like the 2009 of the PS3 era.

Also game development is tough now, these projects take time.
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they're talking about new IP's
and the projects aren't supposed to take much time with the PS4, definitely not 3 years
 
You're panicking.

This year we have UC4, TLG (re-confirmed by Shu on Kinda Funny), Gravity Rush 2, Horizon Zero Dawn and The Tomorrow Children (beta was amazing)

I consider the 2016 of Playstation 4 to be like the 2009 of the PS3 era.

Also game development is tougher now with these grander ambitions, these projects take time.
 
Remember Sony said it was treating Destiny as if it was a first-party console exclusive? I think that sums up the sentiments on this thread.
 
I agree that they have been late coming but the avalanche is just about to hit:
Uncharted 4, RIGS, Horizon, The Last Guardian, PS Worlds, PlayRoom VR, Gran Turismo Sport, Ratchet & Clank, Rush of Blood, Gravity Rush 2...
There's many exclusives as well in addition.

We had:
Killzone SF (technical marvel, great mechanics, wtf campaign)
The Order 1886 (purdy and incredible visuals but the most static game ever)
DriveClub (totally broken at launch, the great game revealed itself over time)
LittleBigPlanet 3 (wobbly launch but Good)
Infamous (Very Good)
MLB (Very Good)
Until Dawn (Very Good)
Remasters (seems like a lot of people enjoyed TLOU for the first time on PS4, gotg and was always a next-gen game in disguise).

So definitly been stumbling out the gate but 2016 looks amazing and let's not forget BLOODBORNE, gotg so far.
 
CTRL+F "Bloodborne"

Nothing. Really?

1353.gif
 
The PS3 had an architecture that was very different from that of the PS4/PC. It will take them a while to port their tools to the new machine. Third parties, which have experience developing PC ports can take advantage of the machine immediately.
 
Bloodborne is a new IP.

I'm far more happy with the PS4 than I was with PS3. I didn't care for the majority of Sony's first party output for that platform until 2009.
 
Easier to get something running on the screen =/= Easier to make games.

As games employ more physics, more AI, more multiplayer, more systems, games are increasingly becoming more and more complex combining many different talents to ship a AAA game.
 
Driveclub had troubles at launch but became one of the, if not the best racing game of this generation.
The Order was not garbage.

horizon zero dawn is coming.
media molecule is working on dreams which looks amazing.
 
Yep I agree, Microsoft have a pretty nice first party lineup but its also underwhelming compared to their 360 output at this time last gen.

Uncharted 4, Ratchet and Clank, The Last Guardian and Horizon are coming this year among many of others but it would be nice to have the great first party games now. I suggest everyone who hasn't already pick up Gravity Rush on either Vita or PS4, fantastic game and a sequel is coming too.
 
What are arguably their 3 major first party studios released games very late in the PS3's life cycle (Naughty Dog, Santa Monica, Polyphony all in 2013) so they are only just now ready to release PS4 games. With the exception of Santa Monica because they scrapped their new IP in late 2013/early 2014 IIRC.

Things should pick up a lot this year with: Uncharted 4, The Last Guardian, Horizon, GT Sport and Gravity Rush 2 (assuming none get delayed which IMO Horizon is the most likely to be). Then most likely in 2017 Dreams, Santa Monica's game and Bend's game.
 
making games is expensive and they seemed to restructure their strategy around partnerships with big 3rd party IPs. It seems to be paying off.
 
I don't think this is a Sony-exclusive problem, if you compare the library strictly between Sony and Microsoft's current libraries.

It has a few stand-out titles like the Xbox One (Bloodborne, Until Dawn, InFAMOUS, and the like so far), but the number like the Xbox One also are low, and mostly consists of previous generation remasters and a small number of hits.

I think one of the big reasons is a changes in the industry that might be slowly making the previous 'console war' style slowly growing outdated as bigger games need bigger markets than the limited scope of just consoles to be replaced every few years, especially now with the gaming market proven to be bigger than ever, but now also more split than ever with even more places and ways to consume games, from more potential faucets. Why we're seeing more multi-platform titles than ever, I think.

It's probably more than just one or two reasons, and a lot of reasons criss-crossing all at once, however. Most of a generations best games also don't appear until towards the end of the console's lifespan, has been shown again and again. I would actually argue that PS4's current library right now is much stronger than PS3's library in the same period of time since release. A lot of its hits didn't appear until its second wind and half of life.
 
Bloodborne and Knack were 2 new ips aswell
There lineup right now is more interesting to me than what they had back then plus 2013 was stacked with 1st party stuff

I mean Gravity Rush 2 :0
R&C and Uncharted 4 next month aswell come on my guy.
 
I dont remember the first years of PS3's first party output being that good anyway. 2009 was when it picked up steam, just like 2016 seems to be Sony's first party real start this gen. They are always very late to the party somehow.
 
the_batman said:
hmm, good point. and the PS4 is supposed to be easier to work on as well..


they're talking about new IP's
and the projects aren't supposed to take much time with the PS4, definitely not 3 years
Click to expand...

3 out of 5 games I mentioned are new IP's, so you have no real point there.
Also refer to Nightengale's post as to why projects still take time

Cheers.
 
Games take more time to develop this gen with the extra detail and bigger teams, and many Sony developers released games in 2012 or 2013, so it makes sense they're not quite ready yet. This year though should be a good one.
 
Sony first party/2nd has never been what i'd call "dominant". In fact, they've been far more miss than hit since the PSone era. For every Last of Us, there's multiple Sorcery, Wonderbooks, Carnival Lands, Little Big Planet Karts, and Lairs.
 
I'd rather they come out with lower quantity and higher quality games than the mediocre titles they had last gen. They produced some fantastic games, but also a lot of shit.
 
Steveo said:
Sony first party/2nd has never been what i'd call "dominant". In fact, they've been far more miss than hit since the PSone era. For every Last of Us, there's multiple Sorcery, Wonderbooks, Carnival Lands, Little Big Planet Karts, and Lairs.
Click to expand...

This as well.
 
The output seems a lot smaller than the PS3 generation, but it's probably because AAA-games are bigger and more costly every generation.
We will probably never have the numbers, but I would think that Uncharted 4 costs way more than Uncharted 1 for example.
Andrew House even said such a thing in an interview a few years ago and that was before the multiple delays.

Offtopic, but that makes me wonder about Nintendo and their AAA-output.
 
It seems more like an industry wide problem rather than something specific to Sony. Exclusives are riskier now, a few million sales are no longer a success.
 
Steveo said:
Sony first party/2nd has never been what i'd call "dominant". In fact, they've been far more miss than hit since the PSone era. For every Last of Us, there's multiple Sorcery, Wonderbooks, Carnival Lands, Little Big Planet Karts, and Lairs.
Click to expand...

Sony has always seemed like they throw a lot at the wall and see what sticks. I can't imagine doing that was cheap. It definitely seems like they are scaling back on that. It might mean we don't see another, say, Puppeteer (which I didn't care for but was seemingly well received) but they are probably also trying to avoid another Starhawk (which I actually did like) or Lair. If they can sink marketing dollars in something like Street Fighter V, or No Man's Sky, and it can have the same impact for them as an exclusive 1st party IP that they fund from the ground up, doesn't that make a ton of sense, especially in the current AAA games climate?
 
Lol, non factor?
And its a new generation, more dev time, less risk, we will see how UC 4 is and that new Ratchet and Clank looks sweet.
 
Nightengale said:
Easier to get something running on the screen =/= Easier to make games.

As games employ more physics, more AI, more multiplayer, more systems, games are increasingly becoming more and more complex combining many different talents to ship a AAA game.
Click to expand...

OleGunner said:
3 out of 5 games I mentioned are new IP's, so you have no real point there.
Also refer to Nightengale's post as to why projects still take time

Cheers.
Click to expand...

+1
 
Even 3rd party games hasn't been that interesting to me. We didn't get new franchises like Bioshock, Mass Effect, and Souls like last gen. Games development has become too expensive for their own good.
 
This is normal since most their major studios have release games in 2013 or a launch game.

-ND release The Last of Us in 2013 and the remaster in 2014,UC4 comes in May.
-Sucker Punch release a game 2014
-Santa Monica Studio works with many different games they are now in deep dev on a new game themselves
-Guerrilla Games made a launch title and is now working on a Horizon Zero Dawn a new ip
-Guerrilla Cambridge is working on a Rigs a VR title
-London Studio is working on VR worlds and Singstar
-Media Molecule release Tearaway in 2013 and is working on Dreams a new ip
-Polyphony Digital release a game in 2013 and is releasing GT sport this year
-Japan Studio helped with Bloodborne and are making Gravity Rush 2 and Last Guardian
-Sony San Diego release MLB every year ,also working on Guns Up! KIllStrain and helping with Drawn to Death.
-Insomniac Games working on Ratchet and Clank which is coming in April
-Quantic Dream release a game in 2013 now working on a new one
-Supermassive Games release a game in 2015 now working on Until Dawn: Rush of Blood VR and Tumble VR
-Housemarque release Resogun in 2013 and Dead Nation for the PS4 in 2014.They have Alienation this year and are working on another game.
 
It really seems like they chose to invest their money in third party marketing & exclusivity deals, at the same time as a series of major upheavals in some of the internal studios that they had been banking on for early support. The result? Only a few major retail exclusives, most externally developed, and a market leading position that isn't exactly telling them to change course.

2016 seems like there will be at least be a noticeable upswing in exclusives, though I don't think we'll see a return to a truly hungry 2009-2013 era Sony. Though if we start counting internally developed stuff for PSVR, the 'list war' gets a bit more evenhanded.
 
It's part of a general trend over the last 5-7 years of AAA games becoming more frequently multiplatform in order to offset skyrocketing development costs.

Like Ninja Scooter mentioned, marketing partnerships with 3rd parties and pushing "the best place to play ______" messaging has proven to be very effective for Sony thusfar this generation.
 
Driveclub, Infamous Second Son, Bloodbourne, Killzone Shadowfall, LBP 3, MLB. The games are there but yeah it's definitely weak compared to PS3 first party during that console's first 3 years.
 
"Second Party" makes no sense. If Sony is first party and other companies are third party, then the consumers are second party. The consumers aren't making the games, so it's not a second party studio.
 
Soony. They just take their time because they know they can afford it based on the PS4 success and the hardware superiority. Also they were longer invested in their PS3 AAA games than the competition - so it makes sense that they needed more time for PS4 blockbusters.
 
Two Words said:
"Second Party" makes no sense. If Sony is first party and other companies are third party, then the consumers are second party. The consumers aren't making the games, so it's not a second party studio.
Click to expand...

It's an industry term that is an imperfect metaphor. Second party typically just refers to a game made out of house, but in exclusive partnership with a hardware manufacturer. Typically a second party studio is contracted for repeated long-term work, so the difference from first party is mostly irrelevant to the end consumer.
 
Easier Development = Go as big,prettier or unique as you can = More Development time

So far we only got:

Guerrilla = from Killzone SF to Horizon (New I.P.)
Guerrilla Cambridge = working on Rigs (New I.P.)
Sucker Punch = from inFamous SS to (Possibly New I.P?)
Japan Studio = from Knack to Gravity Rush 2 and TLG (Possibly New I.P?)
MM = working on Dreams (New I.P.)
Polyphony Digital = working on GT sports and GT7
Naughty Dog = finishing Uncharted 4
Santa Monica = working on God of War (Possibly New I.P?)
San Diego = finishing MLB 16
Bend Studio = working on New I.P
London Studio = working on VR Games (lots of New I.Ps)
XDev:
Quantic Dream = working on Detroit (New I.P)
Housemarque = from Resogun to Alienation and Matterfall (New I.Ps)
Supermassive Games = from Until Dawn to ???

The New I.Ps are coming, they just take time.
 
I always laugh heartily when people look back at the PS3's first two years with rose tinted glasses compared to PS4 in the same time frame.

Maaan early PS3 days were rough for exclusives and games in general. We had the motorstorms, resistance and UC1's of the world but it was slim pickings overall.

I only never felt it too bad because I was at boarding school during those drought years.
The PS4 in comparison has been a relative video game feast since launch with exclusives, 3rd party games and indies.
 
Development times rose, projects (New IP specifically) were cancelled. It'd be a different conversation if everything had gone according to plan. 2016 should see SCEWWS finally come out of their shell this gen and get that ball rolling.
 
zsynqx said:
Wait till May
Click to expand...

Uncharted 4 will be undoubtedly be great, but it's just one game and it's the fifth game in a franchise no less.

In the last two gens it felt like there was a nice spattering of great new exclusive games from a lot of different places.

The current output only shows the diminished importance of first party studios in the current market, where third parties drive the market and the most exciting ideas come out of the droves of indie games that pop up on Steam out of nowhere. There's a reason why Microsoft relies on single franchise studios, why Sony has cut it's lower profile studios and doubled down on the successful ones, and why most new IP tends to be created by second party teams.

Kyoufu said:
Development times rose, projects (New IP specifically) were cancelled. It'd be a different conversation if everything had gone according to plan. 2016 should see SCEWWS finally come out of their shell this gen and get that ball rolling.
Click to expand...

I'm not exactly convinced that 2016 will be any different. After Uncharted I don't really have much confidence in either GT Sport, Horizon, or TLG making it for this year.
 
1st party console-war-fodder titles are going the way of the dinosaur. Today's AAA games are simply too big, too expensive, and take too long to develop to cripple their potential audiences right off the bat with exclusivity deals, with the exception of a few big-name legacy devs (343i, Naughty Dog, Polyphony, Rare, Guerilla, etc).

I don't think the platforms need to be funding slates of extremely expensive 1st party dev houses when Sony has proven this gen you can just align yourself with the biggest 3rd-party titles to similar effect.

Ultimately, despite Gaf's love of da sweet, sweet exclusives, the trend towards 3rd party is a good thing for the industry and consumers in general. Some people just can't fathom the thought of leaving console wars behind though.

Nightengale said:
Plus, this gen, 2-year cycles have become 3-year cycles. Even 4-5 years isn't all that strange anymore.
Click to expand...

Is ANYONE in AAA doing 2 years anymore? Even ATVI's well-oiled COD machine had to switch to three years.
 
This is some revisionist history. It's as though the PS3 wasn't torn apart for having no games either. The fact is Sony has far fewer tent pole franchises than most other publishers, including Nintendo and Microsoft. They release games of a decent quality and quantity (at least enough to compare favourably with any other publisher) but because the games aren't anywhere near as large as other titles they get pushed under the rug or go unnoticed (as they have in this very thread). It's the Sony curse where the only games they have that will ever matter are Uncharted and Gran Turismo.

Also there was way more The Order situations last gen with games like Haze and Lair getting hyped up to hell only to be destroyed by critics on release (not that The Order was ever hyped, but that was RADs fault for their awful demonstrations of the game).
 
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