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Can't picture things in your head, you may have aphantasia.

entremet

entremet

Member
I swear I remember a GAFfer who mentioned they couldn't picture things in their heads. Apparently, it's an actual condition. And it's called aphantasia--lack of fantasy.

Here's an account from a man with it.

I just learned something about you and it is blowing my goddamned mind.

This is not a joke. It is not “blowing my mind” a la BuzzFeed’s “8 Things You Won’t Believe About Tarantulas.” It is, I think, as close to an honest-to-goodness revelation as I will ever live in the flesh.

Here it is: You can visualize things in your mind.

If I tell you to imagine a beach, you can picture the golden sand and turquoise waves. If I ask for a red triangle, your mind gets to drawing. And mom’s face? Of course.

You experience this differently, sure. Some of you see a photorealistic beach, others a shadowy cartoon. Some of you can make it up, others only “see” a beach they’ve visited. Some of you have to work harder to paint the canvas. Some of you can’t hang onto the canvas for long. But nearly all of you have a canvas.

I don’t. I have never visualized anything in my entire life. I can’t “see” my father’s face or a bouncing blue ball, my childhood bedroom or the run I went on ten minutes ago. I thought “counting sheep” was a metaphor. I’m 30 years old and I never knew a human could do any of this. And it is blowing my goddamned mind.
Click to expand...

More here:

https://www.facebook.com/notes/blak...s-to-be-blind-in-your-mind/10156834777480504/
 
V

Vanillalite

Ask me about the GAF Notebook
350x700px-LL-42b7a3d4_1408.gif
 
R

Rimon-hanit

Member
I thought half the population are like that or something, I actually vaguely remember a very old GAF thread about this subject.
 
-Plasma Reus-

-Plasma Reus-

Service guarantees member status
He's talking shit.
How does he remember anything?
How does he remember what shoes he wore yesterday. How does he remember what a car is? What a dog is?
 
T

the-pi-guy

Member
But I cannot flash to beaches I’ve visited. I have no visual, audio, emotional or otherwise sensory experience. I have no capacity to create any kind of mental image of a beach, whether I close my eyes or open them, whether I’m reading the word in a book or concentrating on the idea for hours at a time—or whether I’m standing on the beach itself.
13043250_10102250256883963_453271900667876676_n.jpg
Click to expand...
Wow, super interesting stuff.
I can't imagine what that would be like. (That sounds like a bad pun in this situation...)

-Plasma Reus- said:
He's talking shit.
How does he remember anything?
How does he remember what shoes he wore yesterday. How does he remember what a car is? What a dog is?
Click to expand...

My guess is descriptionally.
How do you remember how many people are in the US? Do you imagine 300 million people, and go yep that's how many? Or do you just know 300 million people?

Very different.
 
O

Orbis Tabula

Member
Things like this are frustrating, because I don't really know how to know if I'm like this, because I can't see how it works for other people. How do I know if my way is normal or not?
 
A

Alienous

Member
I don't know how well I can picture things in my head. The idea of seeing images any more clearly than a vague 'idea' seems strange to me. The 'counting sheep' thing was also something I always struggled with.

It feels like I strain to do it, and the image is overpowered by the blackness of having my eyes closed. It's not like a picture held in my mind, but like an image projected over a faint cloud, if anything.
 
L

LumpOfCole

Member
This is why NeoGAF needs to be extra careful about posting critical pictures in threads. Can you imagine how this guy might feel with this condition?

post-25196-BRB-using-imagination-since-no-B9lT.gif
 
Trojita

Trojita

Rapid Response Threadmaker
I can't conceptualize faces or things for drawing.

It's weird, I don't have a problem recognizing faces like that one disorder, I can still remember information and memories, but if I try and imagine what someone looks like or attempt to draw what a bird looks like I can't.
 
Ray Wonder

Ray Wonder

Founder of the Wounded Tagless Children
Maybe he's misunderstanding. Like how does he remember what any of those things look like if he can't visualize them. How is the word "bounce," saved in his mind?
 
H

HStallion

Now what's the next step in your master plan?
Wow that must suck having the inability to visualize in your head. My entire job revolves around being able to do all kinds of spatial work, a lot of it in my head when I start as I sometimes have to design entire complicated mechanical systems from scratch. I tend to have an incredibly active imagination and have since I was kid, I created entire worlds, characters, stories and so forth in my head.

I am curious how psychedelic drugs like shrooms or acid would affect someone with this condition. The hallucinations are a big part of the fun and I wonder if they are unable to do so like the rest of people.
 
E

Ether_Snake

安安安安安安安安安安安安安安安
the-pi-guy said:
Wow, super interesting stuff.
I can't imagine what that would be like. (That sounds like a bad pun in this situation...)



My guess is descriptionally.
How do you remember how many people are in the US? Do you imagine 300 million people, and go yep that's how many? Or do you just know 300 million people?

Very different.
Click to expand...

Bad example. You don't see 300m cause that isn't what you are remembering. You're remembering the number.

Let's see this guy say he can't visualize his house or his car.
 
A

Alienous

Member
-Plasma Reus- said:
How do you remember a car in a non visual form?
If I ask him to describe the car I showed him a few minutes ago, what is going to say?
Click to expand...

Now that's interesting.

As a similar exercise I just now tried to remember what the shoes I wear most days look like, and I can sort of construct an image based on the physical attributes I remember (like the textures of it), but it isn't a clear image. It's a hazy one and I can feel mental strain and focus in trying to picture it.

I don't know if that's how it is for most people.

NoblesseOblige said:
For those who are unable to picture things in your head, do spatial ability tasks become difficult?

For example:

spatial-skills.jpg
Click to expand...

I don't have any trouble with this, or most questions of this sort.
 
O

Orbis Tabula

Member
I don't think I have this, but I'm kind of surprised by how many people in this thread can't conceive of remembering things in a non-visual way. Do you really remember everything only be recalling pictures of it? That's crazy to me.

Like, if someone asked me to draw a computer keyboard, I wouldn't be able to do it by visualizing it. My muscles know which keys are where, but I can't accurately picture one without thinking about how my fingers work the keys. Do you guys really only recall and think in pictures?
 
T

ThatGayWolf

Member
What's really bizarre to me is that he can't "visualize," but from the article it's clear he understands what metaphor is and how to use them, even visual metaphors.
 
M

Misha

Banned
NoblesseOblige said:
For those who are unable to picture things in your head, do spatial ability tasks become difficult?

For example:
Click to expand...

how do you normally do that? I don't turn them in my head but instead i look at the corners and compare

i scored incredibly low on one psychologist test thing when it came to i guess spatial memory or something like that. like bottom 10% percentile or something. doable when you can look back and forth but if you showed me the one and then took it away and asked me which it was related to, I'd have to memorize which corners went where and i might still get it wrong

I'm actually incredible at directions(well compass directions, not so much following written or spoken directions) and tend to have good fact based memories unlike this guy though. also i've had some amazing dreams (though they're generally vague on the visual element)
 
Seraph_Nicholas

Seraph_Nicholas

Member
Ether_Snake said:
Bad example. You don't see 300m cause that isn't what you are remembering. You're remembering the number.

Let's see this guy say he can't visualize his house or his car.
Click to expand...
That's exactly what he said, among other things like having his best friend tell him stories about their childhood.
 
T

the-pi-guy

Member
Ether_Snake said:
Bad example. You don't see 300m cause that isn't what you are remembering. You're remembering the number.

Let's see this guy say he can't visualize his house or his car.
Click to expand...

That's the point though.

What does your car look like?
It's red, it's got 4 seats, 4 tires, etc.

Those are just descriptions. Doesn't have to have any sort of correlation with what they are thinking in their head. They might just be remembering descriptions instead of an image of the car itself.
 
T

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
EskimoJoe said:
I don't think I have this, but I'm kind of surprised by how many people in this thread can't conceive of remembering things in a non-visual way. Do you really remember everything only be recalling pictures of it? That's crazy to me.

Like, if someone asked me to draw a computer keyboard, I wouldn't be able to do it by visualizing it. My muscles know which keys are where, but I can't accurately picture one without thinking about how my fingers work the keys. Do you guys really only recall and think in pictures?
Click to expand...

Not just in pictures, but in sensory memory in general (including emotional state) yeah...if you ask me to draw a keyboard I'd probably start with my memory of my keyboard on my desk and then "isolate" it from its environment and sort of spin it around in my head to look at the details on the back
 
entremet

entremet

Member
Just a note, the QA at the end of the post answers many of the questions many of you are having. You can skip to that if you want to avoid the filler and get to the meat.
 
N

NoblesseOblige

Banned
EskimoJoe said:
Do you really remember everything only be recalling pictures of it? That's crazy to me.
Click to expand...

No? Of course not. I remember facts and dates and what-nots, as what they are. But not being able to visualize and manipulate multi-dimensional objects in my head just seems so crippling. Like there are times I've had to work on mechanical objects which I couldn't physically see, so I create a projection in my head which I can navigate.

Misha said:
how do you normally do that? I don't turn them in my head but instead i look at the corners and compare
Click to expand...

I can 'see' the object in my head and just rotate it as if it were a physical object in front of me.
 
A

Alienous

Member
Hmm, I can definitely picture things that aren't immediately in-front of me. But it's a lot of mental effort for a hazy image. Does that line up with common experiences?
 
entremet

entremet

Member
ThatGayWolf said:
What's really bizarre to me is that he can't "visualize," but from the article it's clear he understands what metaphor is and how to use them, even visual metaphors.
Click to expand...

From the QA at the end of the article:

3. So you don’t recognize me when you see me?
I do. Exeter’s MRI results suggest that the process of putting a name to a face can be separated from the process of mentally generating a face from a name. In programming parlance, I have a hash table.
Click to expand...

This is probably how it works globally.
 
Ray Wonder

Ray Wonder

Founder of the Wounded Tagless Children
Alienous said:
Hmm, I can definitely picture things that aren't immediately in-front of me. But it's a lot of mental effort for a hazy image. Does that line up with common experiences?
Click to expand...

Yeah, It's not some crystal clear photograph. It's definitely just like the idea of what I'm picturing. It's hard to explain.
 
T

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
NoblesseOblige said:
No? Of course not. I remember facts and dates and what not as what they are. But not being able to visualize and manipulate multi-dimensional objects in my head just seems so crippling. Like there are times I've had to work on mechanical objects which I couldn't physically see, so I create a projection in my head which I can navigate.
Click to expand...

Funnily enough I do process dates and stuff visually, ever since I was young. When I think about the days of the week or the months of the year its sort of stretched out along a combination number line/calander
 
O

Orbis Tabula

Member
NoblesseOblige said:
No? Of course not. I remember facts and dates and what-nots, as what they are. But not being able to visualize and manipulate multi-dimensional objects in my head just seems so crippling. Like there are times I've had to work on mechanical objects which I couldn't physically see, so I create a projection in my head which I can navigate.
Click to expand...

Sorry, maybe that was a stupid question. I'm just suddenly very unsure about whether or not my head has been working right.
 
T

ThatGayWolf

Member
Trojita said:
I can't conceptualize faces or things for drawing.

It's weird, I don't have a problem recognizing faces like that one disorder, I can still remember information and memories, but if I try and imagine what someone looks like or attempt to draw what a bird looks like I can't.
Click to expand...

In my experience (key word "my") this can be a learned skill. Before I took guided drawing foundation classes, I had trouble holding pictures in my mind, by which I mean they could be vague, or shift. Also strangely, even if I could picture clearly what I wanted to draw/imagine, it would "spin." Don't know how to better describe it. Taking drawing and perspective fundamentals classes didn't solve this, but it did help a lot.
 
B

BreakyBoy

o_O @_@ O_o
EskimoJoe said:
Things like this are frustrating, because I don't really know how to know if I'm like this, because I can't see how it works for other people. How do I know if my way is normal or not?
Click to expand...

I'm not trying to be politically correct here, but it's not really a matter of being normal or not. Everyone is different. Generally, people have a tough time remembering that.

For aphantasia, it's a spectrum. Some can't visualize things at all, some do it vividly all the time. Most people probably fall somewhere between those two. I'm probably pretty close to the "can't visualize things at all" end of the spectrum. I mean can vaguely do so with effort, but mostly I hold things in my head as concepts, not images. Even dreams are pretty much non-visual. Dreaming for me is like living through a book, rather than acting out a play or movie.

It's fine. I'm not handicapped. In fact, I suspect (with no actual evidence at all) that it might help me with the stuff I am good at: i.e. computers, math, psychological empathy. These are all things that are highly conceptual, and often have no direct visual outside of fabricated rough analogies. But ask me if your hair looked better yesterday and I'll have a tough time. Or even within math, I tend to have a much easier time with algebra than I do geometry.
 
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