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SE should've let Tetsuya Nomura finish FINAL FANTASY XV *MASSIVE SPOILERS*

Mcdohl

Member
TL:DR at the end.

A meeting predestined by the divine.

"I can't stay any longer."

From the first scenes of the glorious E3 2013 FINAL FANTASY XV announcement trailer.

Tabata did not kill Stella/Luna, Nomura had already told us on that trailer.

That scene semi made it to the final product.

A meeting predestined by the divine, I'm guessing meant Noctis and Luna meeting in the afterlife as we saw in the ending.

This brings me to believe that Nomura did hand off the key plot points to Tabata, and Tabata made adjustments in order to favor production of the game, such as removing Insomnia and making it a movie instead.

Nomura's vision was compromised by the lack of character development and storytelling in the final product, and that's why its delivery fell flat to a lot of people, but many of us could still see the intent, and most importantly, the ambition behind this vision.

Yes, Nomura might have never finished the game, because he was not willing to compromise shit. He would've fleshed out the game properly, he would not have caved to half-assing this game.

Of course, SE was desperate, and appointed Tabata to finish it no matter what.

And I believed, as many did, but in hindsight, was rushing this game worth it?

Now it saddens me to think that we will never ever get to experience FINAL FANTASY XV the way it was meant to be.

I don't blame Tabata, he was doing his job under a lot of pressure. He did his best, and he did deliver.

I blame SE for being unreasonable.

Congratulations SE, you botched your chance to make history.

The scale, ambition, and epicness of this game was enough to blow a game like FF7 out of the park.

Yes, maybe due to the high production costs of today, that was never going to be possible.

Maybe actually fleshing out characters, story, sidequests, other continents besides Lucis, other cities like Tenebrae, etc. would've had an unreasonably high cost.

But if that was the case...maybe it just wasn't the time yet.

Nomura, you crazy belt-obsessed madman, you better try again one day, even if its outside of SE/FF.

I'm looking forward to KHIII as much as the next guy, but I really don't think the scale and ambition of that game will be as unreasonable for 2016 as FFXV's.

TL;DR: Nomura would not have caved to rush FFXV and would've properly fleshed out the epic tale this game is.

Sorry if shitty thread and if I deserve to be banned, I'm just being honest and wanted to get it off my chest.
 
I'm pretty sure Nomura admitted that half the stuff in the trailers he was just making up as he went along and had no idea how he would actually work it into the game.
 
I don't think Square-Enix was being "unreasonable". They are a business and Final Fantasy is a premier IP for them. They needed it to be finished sooner than later, for better or worse.

Besides, Nomura's time with Versus meant you hadn't seen KH3 for over a decade so that must have been unacceptable for SE execs. It also resulted in Nomura working on a guaranteed money maker, FFVII Remake.
 
I would have waited another year, not to have Nomura finish it, but to give Tabata ample time to flesh certain things out. The history this game has I'm surprised it's as good as it is.

And maybe an unpopular opinion, but they need to do away with the open world aspect.
 
The game we got isn't that far off from the other Nomura games I've played.

Really, the only issue I have is shoving the world in the back half of the game onto literal rails and not getting to explore the larger cities very much. Even a more streamlined field area, or a connective dungeon like Mechonis Field in Xenoblade, would have been good.
 
I would have waited another year, not to have Nomura finish it, but to give Tabata ample time to flesh certain things out. The history this game has I'm surprised it's as good as it is.

And maybe an unpopular opinion, but they need to do away with the open world aspect.

Completely agree, that would've helped with the time/budget constraints. Maybe not completely take away but scale down.

Artistic vision vs. A BUDGET

If the two don't match then maybe don't make the product?
 
Wanting a game to be released instead of staying forever in development hell is hardly "unreasonable". Also, this is something of a personal pet peeve, but when you write a post with that many sentences all as individual paragraphs, it becomes somewhat unwieldy to read.
 
I really wonder what some people have in their minds on what Versus was going to be, seems like it was the second coming of Jesus or something.
 
I really wonder what some people have in their minds on what Versus was going to be, seems like it was the second coming of Jesus or something.

It was 25% complete by XV's transition. If it was green lighted to be released it would have never saw the light of day, imo. Look how unfinished XV is, lol.
 
Completely agree, that would've helped with the time/budget constraints. Maybe not completely take away but scale down.



If the two don't match then maybe don't make the product?

Dude, project management isn't as easy as building something out of LEGO. Things change, mistakes are inevitable, the costs rise and rise. At some point though one has to push the button and get it done.
 
Who was behind superior bearded Noctis? I feel like that wouldn't have happened in Nomura's version, so I stand behind Tabata.
 
The potential for how things could have been will always be better than reality. People also give Nomura too much credit.
If the two don't match then maybe don't make the product?
They weren't just going to give up on a project they'd already spent so much time and money on.
 
I said this, too. I was way hyped for this game from the older trailers as opposed to the newer stuff.

I really enjoyed the game, but the story feels so incomplete it's saddening compared to previous FF games. I hated XIII'a story but at least I knew what was going on and all the important stuff happened on screen as opposed to XV.

Glad I got to play it but would have preferred to wait for a fully finished product from the original creator. Even if it ended up being cancelled, I would've been okay with that over a game that feels half finished.
 
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Wrong.

The script was completed years ago.

It is mainly the earliest trailers that weren't the most representative, but really, even if Nomura was the director there's still a pretty high chance things would have had to be changed, cut, etc. in order to get the game out on time.
 
Nomura isn't a visionary. Kingdom Hearts is a hot mess and he only gets away with it because it's cartoony, harmless, and fun to play. He teased a TWEWY sequel that he straight up abandoned, just like how he abandoned Versus XIII.

Nomura spent years working on fashion design and product placement endorsements for Versus XIII, and Tabata was forced to pick up the mantle. Nomura created cutscenes for no reason, and Tabata was forced to attempt to incorporate them into the game. 4chan leaker even mentioned that Square Enix wanted to change the character designs but they were contractually obliged to keep them the same.

Versus XIII would have been a trilogy, and it would have taken 3 games to get to the plot twist that Noctis killed Stella before the story even began. Stabbing Luna with a knife was unceremonious and shitty, but Nomura's plans for Stella were next level insane.

Reviewers would have hated Versus XIII's cynicism. Look at XV reviews--reviewers stated the lighthearted, nostalgic elements, the things that Tabata added, were the reason why it was so good.
 
Congratulations SE, you botched your chance to make history.

The scale, ambition, and epicness of this game was enough to blow a game like FF7 out of the park...

how exactly was a game featuring 4 spoiled rich boys on holiday ever gonna top a game featuring red xiii & cait sith? :) ...
 
Who was behind superior bearded Noctis? I feel like that wouldn't have happened in Nomura's version, so I stand behind Tabata.

Hah, this I agree. Bearded Noctis was pretty cool.

The potential for how things could have been will always be better than reality. People also give Nomura too much credit.

They weren't just going to give up on a project they'd already spent so much time and money on.

This is really hard to accept, but I believe it was the right thing to do. Of course, money comes first so...
 
It was 25% complete by XV's transition. If it was green lighted to be released it would have never saw the light of day, imo. Look how unfinished XV is, lol.

I mean, some people is always with Versus was going to be better, Nomura wouldn't half ass the game, Stella was better... but what did we got from Versus? from 2006 till 2013 we only got 1 gameplay trailer, rest was just random cutscenes. Even the XV 2013 trailer was in-engime ubllshit (don't tell me you did believe that was actual PS4 in-game footage).
Same as that, we don't know how the combat would be, if the story would be good or not, if Stella would be a strong woman or another shit character.... we really didn't know shit because all those years we got almost nothing.

FF XV has it's problems but from 2014 to 2016 we got a lot of demos, gameplay footage and a finished product.
 
I like most of Nomuras character design but as a game director he is pretty poor. I feel like XV would have ended up much more convoluted than it did if he had seen it through to the end.
 
You're not wrong. Even with Tabata I think just a year longer and we could've had a real final boss battle. An explorable Tenebrae (what we CAN see is absolutely stunning). And more to Altissia than 10-ish hunts and a multiple choice cutscene.

But in the end, they really needed to move on. The game had been passed through so many hands for so long that the real passion and direction of the original vision was all but lost. Hell, I'm super patient, and even I was tired of waiting, tired of the hype and the promises with no results. Better to just get it out there and move forward, with the goal of being MUCH smarter with the FFXVI marketing and development cycle.

It's still a good game. It's so good that it pains me immensely not to see all the other stuff they were originally planning. If it wasn't a good game, we wouldn't care this much.
 
Nomura is a master at making shit up and putting it in future games. Look at KH secret ending. Ended up being a pivotal plot point when it was probably just a bunch of concepts.

I bet he was like: Hmmm, lets give the hooded character two key blade! I'll explain how eventually...

I haven't finalized character designs. Everyone gets a black cloak!
 
Nope
And SE should give FF VIIR to Kitase direct (or a new director)
We will be lucky if they release the final part of the remake before 2021
 
My hunch is that the game wasn't a mess because of the story. If you look at the 2009 trailer you can see that there is a lot of what we got in the final product, however, that build was definitely was built on a different engine and focused on the action gameplay of Kingdom Hearts. So something happened along the way where either Nomura or some higher ups didn't feel satisfied with how the game was coming along gameplay wise.

So here they were caught with a half built game but with art and assets made for characters and some locations. What to do? Somewhere in their meetings the higher ups figured that Nomura's talents should be used elsewhere rather than a game that seemed to be treading water and eating up money. Tabata was given the reins to the project to salvage it into something that could resemble Final Fantasy.

They couldn't outright cancel the game due to how much money had been already sunk into it, not to mention the assets already made that could still be reused if the project were "rebooted" from within. The open world and dungeons are clearly what Tabata and his team worked on, with someone deciding to invest money into a feature length CG film to recoup money by flaunting Hollywood talent, as if that alone would get people to watch it. The anime was targeted toward Japan for sure and was cheap to produce... again, another way to market and hopefully get people to pay attention to the game since so much money was put into this thing.

In the end I believe Nomura's story would have definitely been a good thing for the game if it were to have come together originally the way they wanted. Instead we got part of Nomura's scenario and other parts unfinished. For instance, I recently played the Leviathan chapter and holy cow did I have no idea what was even happening. It felt like a triple AAA game had suddenly broke on me and here I was playing a prototype of what this massive set piece seen in the E3 reveal trailer was supposed to be.
 
On the one hand, I can totally empathize with those who play FF for story and were disappointed.

On the other, you have people like me who have gotten 100+ hours out of the game thanks to the strong gameplay and have always thought that modern FF stories were drivel.

I think they chose the right elements to focus on, overall.
 
The game would have never happened at this point. Nomura should just stick with what he's best at. Art.

If anything, Tabata did the vision more justice, but was strained by SE to get the goddamn thing out.
 
Kitase seemigly doesn't want to direct shit anymore.

I think he said when XIII was in development he was trying to foster Toriyama to direct a project because Kitase had done a bunch and he didn't want SE to become reliant on the old talent all the time, basically their stuff will never advance if its a case of "bring back X/Y" but he equally recognized they needed to be guided.

Kitase often has the look of "I'm too old for this shit" :P

Edit: SE were not unreasonable, but Nomura was as much a victim of circumstance as anything else. IF FFXIV 1.0 had been managed better and SE's development going into the previous gen wasn't such a total learning experience and sometimes clusterfuck then V13 probably would have been released because the development team wouldn't be in a constant state of flux.

I think Tabata said he wasn't sure about even directing XV :(
 
I think at this point Square Enix should focus on making FFXVI a classic game with turn-based battles. The open world structure does not work either. And give us traditional magic or at least meaningful magic this time. Scale. Fantasy.
 
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