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XiaNaphryz · Jan 25, 2017

13th Annual Demographia International Housing Affordability Survey 2017 - Rating Middle-Income Housing Affordability

EXECUTIVE SUMMARY
The 13th Annual Demographia International Housing Affordability Survey covers 406 metropolitan housing markets (metropolitan areas) in nine countries (Australia, Canada, China, Ireland, Japan, New Zealand, Singapore, the United Kingdom and the United States) for the third quarter of 2016. A total of 92 major metropolitan markets (housing markets) --- with more than 1,000,000 population --- are included, including five megacities (Tokyo-Yokohama, New York, Osaka-Kobe-Kyoto, Los Angeles, and London).

Rating Middle-Income Housing Affordability

The Demographia International Housing Affordability Survey rates middle-income housing affordability using the Median Multiple, which is the median house price divided by the median household income. The Median Multiple is widely used for evaluating urban markets, and has been recommended by the World Bank and the United Nations and is used by the Joint Center for Housing Studies, Harvard University. The Median Multiple and other price-to-income multiples (housing affordability multiples) are used to compare housing affordability between markets by the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development, the International Monetary Fund, The Economist, and other organizations.

Historically, liberally regulated markets have exhibited median house prices that are three times or less that of median household incomes, for a Median Multiple of 3.0 or less. Demographia uses the following housing affordability ratings (Table ES-1).

The top of the Most Affordable list for major housing markets are all in the US:

The Least Affordable list for major housing markets:

As in the past, each of the severely unaffordable major markets are characterized by urban containment policy or variations

And the overall lists for all surveyed markets:

I'm assuming that 367 in the last table is a typo and should be 406.

More detailed breakdown as well as info on specific regions are in the 84 page report.

johnny956 · Jan 25, 2017

Put my 2 cents as a St. Louis native. Live 5 miles from downtown. Fully renovated 1700sq ft house. I pay $1100 month for mortgage/taxes/insurance for my house.

hydrophilic attack · Jan 25, 2017

yeah who the fuck would choose to live in buffalo

MatrixMan.EXE · Jan 25, 2017

Surprised Bournemouth and Dorset are on there but not London.

milanbaros · Jan 25, 2017

What is keeping the HK price to income ratio so high? Is it buyers not resident in the city?

That ratio screams massive bubble.

studyguy · Jan 25, 2017

Jesus Christ Hong Kong with that run away victory.

Trey · Jan 25, 2017

hydrophilic attack said:
yeah who the fuck would choose to live in buffalo

It's not so bad. Lake effect snow occasionally yeah, but good food and a downtown with more energy than it has had in decades.

Jasoneyu · Jan 25, 2017

man I was hopping vancouver wouldn't be on the list but its #3.. fuckkkk

hydrophilic attack · Jan 25, 2017

Trey said:
It's not so bad. Lake effect snow occasionally yeah, but good food and a downtown with more energy than it has had in decades.

hm i drove through it a couple of years ago and it looked pretty miserable

in what way has its downtown gotten more energy?

EloquentM · Jan 25, 2017

johnny956 said:
Put my 2 cents as a St. Louis native. Live 5 miles from downtown. Fully renovated 1700sq ft house. I pay $1100 month for mortgage/taxes/insurance for my house.

Holy fuck. I pay 300 more than that for a 1b, 1ba apartment in cali. Fml

ahoyhoy · Jan 25, 2017

Rochester is so cheap a fucking ex con drug dealer bought the 5 bedroom house my boyfriend and I were renting and moved into the first floor, all for like 180k.

We got the fuck outta there and left the deposit behind.

City is decent in some areas though. Great art scene.

gregor7777 · Jan 25, 2017

hydrophilic attack said:
hm i drove through it a couple of years ago and it looked pretty miserable

in what way has its downtown gotten more energy?

Do you think you got an accurate picture of the region by "driving through it a couple of years ago"? Come on man. Open your mind a bit.

Ludono · Jan 25, 2017

studyguy said:
Jesus Christ Hong Kong with that run away victory.

Lived there for 2 years, was paying $800 a month for a 100sqm flat that was literally a shithole. Housing market there is out of control.

HStallion · Jan 25, 2017

hydrophilic attack said:
hm i drove through it a couple of years ago and it looked pretty miserable

in what way has its downtown gotten more energy?

They have electric street lamp lights now.

ahoyhoy · Jan 25, 2017

hydrophilic attack said:
hm i drove through it a couple of years ago and it looked pretty miserable

in what way has its downtown gotten more energy?

If you drove through it on your way to the Falls you likely only saw the run down industrial side of the city from the highway.

Downtown is okay but it's kinda sprawly and there's no real public transit.

There are some great waterfront activities though. Excellent festivals and Pride parade.

milanbaros · Jan 25, 2017

Ludono said:
Lived there for 2 years, was paying $800 a month for a 100sqm flat that was literally a shithole. Housing market there is out of control.

That sounds ridiculously cheap actually . Do you mean square feet?

n0razi · Jan 25, 2017

studyguy said:
Jesus Christ Hong Kong with that run away victory.

Hong Kong is crazy

Darth Karja · Jan 25, 2017

johnny956 said:
Put my 2 cents as a St. Louis native. Live 5 miles from downtown. Fully renovated 1700sq ft house. I pay $1100 month for mortgage/taxes/insurance for my house.

I have a 1400sq ft, plus the finished basement, house halfway between Cleveland and Pittsburgh for under $600 a month with the taxes and insurance. It's nice living in a cheap area.

yanipheonu · Jan 25, 2017

*sees thread title*
I'm just going to guess Vancouver is on there.
*reads thread*
Yup.

Helensmith · Jan 25, 2017

Damn, I'm emigrating to central Sydney

EloquentM · Jan 25, 2017

Xia don't you live in this expensive ass state too?

Darth Karja said:
I have a 1400sq ft, plus the finished basement, house halfway between Cleveland and Pittsburgh for under $600 a month with the taxes and insurance. It's nice living in a cheap area.

I need to calexit

mullet2000 · Jan 25, 2017

Toronto didn't make the top 10 but we were pretty damn close...Yeah it's pretty rough here.

gaiages · Jan 25, 2017

gregor7777 said:
Do you think you got an accurate picture of the region by "driving through it a couple of years ago"? Come on man. Open your mind a bit.

I mean Buffalo is my hometown and it was always kind of... depressed looking. Like an Industrial Revolution remnant feel.

If they've spruced up in the last decade though, good for them.

Ludono · Jan 25, 2017

milanbaros said:
That sounds ridiculously cheap actually . Do you mean square feet?

Yes, sorry I meant feet. 100 square feet for 7,000 Hong Kong Dollars a month. I only did it because my salary made up for it, I could have gone for something nicer but with it being a short term thing I wanted to maximise my income. I actually ended up subletting it once I left since I still have another year on the lease for 8,000 HKD since the housing market has just been skyrocketing YOY

PipefishUK · Jan 25, 2017

MatrixMan.EXE said:
Surprised Bournemouth and Dorset are on there but not London.

I lived in Bournemouth for 15 years - completely ridiculous rents - if you want anything other than a hovel in Boscombe (the bad area of Bournemouth)
Really small 1 bedroom flat was £650 a month minimum - that was 5 years ago - I imagine it's worse now.

Morrigan Stark · Jan 25, 2017

Man Vancouver is higher than Los Angeles and San Francisco now.

Baron Aloha · Jan 25, 2017

I had no idea San Jose real estate was that sought after. I'm not from California - what's so great about San Jose? Is it b/c of silicon valley? Whenever I read about Cali real estate its usually San Francisco and LA that are mentioned.

riotous · Jan 25, 2017

MatrixMan.EXE said:
Surprised Bournemouth and Dorset are on there but not London.

Don't they factor in average pay of the local businesses?

edit: Average income I guess.. but places just outside of major cities often have skewed stats... the houses sold there are for the wealthy people who work in the big city, but there's still plenty of local people with low income who can't afford the housing. Whereas people who actually live inside the city proper have much more expensive real estate, but almost everyone has a high income.

Stabby McSter · Jan 25, 2017

WOOOOOOOOOOOOO SAN JOSE WOOOOOOOOOO

I HAVE TO RENT A ROOM FROM MY AUNT CUZ IT'S SO EXPENSIVE OUT HERE WOOOOOOOOOO

Pandora012 · Jan 25, 2017

There is a reason many of my coworkers live in Pennsylvania and commute to NYC for work.

lt519 · Jan 25, 2017

hydrophilic attack said:
yeah who the fuck would choose to live in buffalo

Meh, people shit on Central New York too (re: Buffalo). I went to school in Rochester (which is #1 here) and live in Syracuse. 1-2 months of crappy snow, but doesn't really affect my day to day life. It's no different than Seattle as far as being a gray city. What this survey doesn't capture is that Rochester burbs can be super nice with excellent schools, same with Cuse.

Syracuse is dirt cheap too, live extremely extremely comfortable on my salary.

Baron Aloha said:
I had no idea San Jose real estate was that sought after. I'm not from California - what's so great about San Jose? Is it b/c of silicon valley? Whenever I read about Cali real estate its usually San Francisco and LA that are mentioned.

Yes, most people don't realize that is where it is.

Machine said:
These lists are odd. Yes, Detroit is one of the most affordable markets if you only look at the city itself. If you look at some of the suburbs surrounding Detroit, things are totally different. Median home price in Detroit according to Zillow is $37,600 but next door in Bloomfield Hills it goes up to $423,500.

Exactly, their #1 Rochester, this is a Zillow map literally 5 minutes down the road in Brighton, houses reaching 750k and averaging in the 200's:

gregor7777 · Jan 25, 2017

gaiages said:
I mean Buffalo is my hometown and it was always kind of... depressed looking. Like an Industrial Revolution remnant feel.

If they've spruced up in the last decade though, good for them.

They have, quite a lot actually.

riotous · Jan 25, 2017

Baron Aloha said:
I had no idea San Jose real estate was that sought after. I'm not from California - what's so great about San Jose?

It's within driving distance of loads of high paying companies, but the companies don't actually exist inside of San Jose. So I think it throws off the "affordability numbers" because the pay of the local companies isn't enough to afford the real estate sold there, because the people don't work inside of San Jose.

Mountain View and Cupertino or instance are very close to San Jose, and San Francisco and surrounding cities with tech / finance company presence aren't that far either.

It's a terrible place to try to live if you work retail or something like that; however since there's so much money there it has ridiculously fancy malls and shopping centers everywhere.

Machine · Jan 25, 2017

These lists are odd. Yes, Detroit is one of the most affordable markets if you only look at the city itself. If you look at some of the suburbs surrounding Detroit, things are totally different. Median home price in Detroit according to Zillow is $37,600 but next door in Bloomfield Hills it goes up to $423,500.

Delusibeta · Jan 25, 2017

Interesting. By this metric used, Osaka/Kobe/Kyoto is actually a cheap place to buy a house: the median multiplier is lower than all of the areas in the UK in the study.

NervousXtian · Jan 25, 2017

328 out of 406.

I need to move.. but I love Portland.

Anticol · Jan 25, 2017

Machine said:
These lists are odd. Yes, Detroit is one of the most affordable markets if you only look at the city itself. If you look at some of the suburbs surrounding Detroit, things are totally different. Median home price in Detroit according to Zillow is $37,600 but next door in Bloomfield Hills it goes up to $423,500.

Is that expensive? a house for $420? A one bedroom apartment in Sydney or Melbourne is $450k

Dazzler · Jan 25, 2017

It's a real fun time living in Vancouver right now! Thanks, China!

NoblesseOblige · Jan 25, 2017

Michigan is indeed super cheap. I got a 2 bed 2.5 bath downtown condo for <170k in the capital.

btags · Jan 25, 2017

ahoyhoy said:
Rochester is so cheap a fucking ex con drug dealer bought the 5 bedroom house my boyfriend and I were renting and moved into the first floor, all for like 180k.

We got the fuck outta there and left the deposit behind.

City is decent in some areas though. Great art scene.

Does your boyfriend happen to work in a lab? I feel like someone I worked with in the past year had this happen to them in Rochester.

Shaanyboi · Jan 25, 2017

n0razi said:
Hong Kong is crazy

That's fucking dizzying

Peterthumpa · Jan 25, 2017

yanipheonu said:
*sees thread title*
I'm just going to guess Vancouver is on there.
*reads thread*
Yup.

Yeah, to the surprise of absolutely no one.

Hypron · Jan 25, 2017

I like in Auckland which is rank 4th/6th and yeah it's crazy. Prices have skyrocketed recently. My parents bought a house 5 years ago and sold it last year for 80% more than what they bought it for - and that's not unusual.

Most of my friends who have already been working for a few years and would like to get a house are severely depressed by this - owning a home seems so far out of reach.

btags · Jan 25, 2017

lt519 said:
Exactly, their #1 Rochester, this is a Zillow map literally 5 minutes down the road in Brighton, houses reaching 750k and averaging in the 200's:

I have looked at the 750k house for fun and it is a monster of a house. It is definitely more of an exception than the norm in the area.

ThatStupidLion · Jan 25, 2017

johnny956 said:
Put my 2 cents as a St. Louis native. Live 5 miles from downtown. Fully renovated 1700sq ft house. I pay $1100 month for mortgage/taxes/insurance for my house.

how much do you earn? and what do you do?

BlitzKeeg · Jan 25, 2017

Rochester represent!

Not too bad here if you can handle the cold and snow. It's only going to get better with climate change anyway. lol

br0ken_shad0w · Jan 25, 2017

Welp there goes my chance of leaving Texas and moving to the west coast.

xxracerxx · Jan 25, 2017

Portland market is still crazy. The Zillowestimate on our house is $350,000 more than what we paid for it 4 years ago.

zorlaczerohero · Jan 25, 2017

pikul said:
Damn, I'm emigrating to central Sydney

Sydney has excellent transport, look at areas with good rail links. Work fast though, even the less desirable areas on the outskirts are slowly getting gentrified. New builds over an hour away from Sydney CBD are hitting over a million based on future transport links going in.

We just said "Fuck this!" and moved to the Blue Mountains, 6 bedroom house on an acre for half of what we'd have paid where the wife works which is a 40 minute drive.

johnny956 · Jan 25, 2017

heckmanimation said:
how much do you earn? and what do you do?

System administrator as a government contractor. I pull about 75k. Plenty of tech jobs in St. Louis right now too so pay is going up substantially all around

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