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The Original Star Wars Trilogy is NOT Coming Home (But they COULD be. Later. Maybe..)

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B

Bobby Roberts

Banned
So, the dream that has been dreamed for 20 straight years now, a dream realized ONCE in 2006, but not in the way anyone involved (even the people producing it) really wanted, appears to be deferred yet again, probably for another 10 years, or the end of the Sequel Trilogy, or whatever arbitrary date you want to pin your hopes to.

But despite the latest swell of rumormongering built out of the same pile of details we've been sifting through for the past two years, the Original Theatrical Versions of the classic Star Wars Trilogy will not be coming to home video anytime soon, according to reports via The Digital Bits

Disney's director of Library Restoration and Preservation, Theo Gluck, held a special event at Ohio State University's Wexner Center for the Arts last night, a presentation called Animation Restoration at Walt Disney Studios. Gluck was asked there about Star Wars and reported that the original cut negative for the film currently exists in its ”SE" configuration only.
Click to expand...

(to clarify, that's the 1997 Special Edition)

In addition, 20th Century Fox's Senior Vice President of Library and Technical Services, Shawn Belston, was also on hand at the Wexner event last night. He confirmed that all of the ”trims" removed from the original cut negative (in the mid-1990s, to create the SEs) still exist as well.

While it is essentially technically true that the ‘77 cut negative ”no longer exists" in its original state, it is also technically true that it could be re-built if so desired. All of the needed film elements still survive and have been preserved. Nevertheless, if one takes Gluck and Belston at their word (and knowing them as we do, we certainly do) this would seem to be fairly official word that no such reconstruction work has been done to date. Thus, it appears that there is little chance of the original 1977 Star Wars being released on any home video format in 2017.
Click to expand...

So, there you go. They could do it, if they wanted to. They have the means. They just haven't done it. The why could be for any number of reasons:

They don't think it's worth the time.
They think it's worth the time, they're just waiting for a better moment to do it.
They don't want to do it while Lucas is alive out of respect to Lucas.

(this is where someone will suggest Lucas built it into the terms of sale, but that makes zero fucking sense as an actual sticking point, and it makes even less sense that Bob Iger would actually agree to those terms, especially considering the totality of the purchase.)

Whatever the reasoning, whether it's percieved lack of audience, bad timing, or deference to the old owner, if you're waiting for the theatricals to get announced at Celebration, you can probably stop that now.

edit: This post, now with my voice and added Sound FX, in podcast form
 
S

Sephzilla

Member
46.gif


I'm not letting the hope die :(

Bobby Roberts said:
They don't want to do it while Lucas is alive out of respect to Lucas.
Click to expand...

Fuck respect for Lucas. He doesn't have respect for the that work directors and artists put into the OT.
 
D

daveo42

Banned
They probably want to wait to sell the whole thing in a nine-disc ultra package after Episode IX comes out. Also, film restoration takes a good deal of time. This moreso because while they do have the pieces to rebuild the originals, they still have to rebuild them not just clean them up and make 4k prints.

Edit: I somehow missed the 4k prints news of the OT.
 
B

Bobby Roberts

Banned
liquidtmd said:
$10 another site says different tomorrow]
Click to expand...

Gonna be hard for those sites to make an argument against what the people at Disney's restoration dept just said above, though.

The 4K scan was of the 97 SE. The original elements have not been recomped back in. They could do it later. They haven't done it now. Whatever they're going to announce at Celebration, if they announce anything, will be sourced from a restoration finished around 2012, which has been reported on a couple times as not being the theatrical version.

Dream's dead. Again.

Wait til next year.
 
M

Mortimer Brewster

Member
liquidtmd said:
$10 another site says different tomorrow

Round and round we go. Nothing stops this train

QLdCn.gif
Click to expand...


If this came from another person other then Bill "I will swallow whatever PR speak a Distributor gives me to keep the free review copies coming in" Hunt, I might buy it. The Bits might have once been a good place for info but they have become very irrelevant.


Also what Hunt and Bobby here take as emphatic evidence that they aren't coming just reads as PR double speak, not confirming or denying that restoration has been done.
 
Pagusas

Pagusas

Elden Member
I think as said in other threads, there are SOME good improvements in the SE's, I'd like to see just a few of them make it over. But I'd take an original cut of Jedi any and every day over the SE.
 
M

Marty Chinn

Member
Not that I have hope of it actually coming to light any time soon, but wouldn't it be the case that they wouldn't tip people off in public statements like the ones you outlined if they were saving it for a big announcement?
 
S

Sephzilla

Member
I'm in the camp of "they can do it", just to be clear. I don't believe for a moment that they don't have the original prints of the theatrical OT.
 
S

Solo

Member
There's no financial motivation or reason to do it. Why spend the money (and lots of it) on restoring the original cuts for a niche group that probably makes up less than 1% of their fanbase, when they can continue to release the versions they already have, which cost them 0 additional dollars, and sell like hot cakes to the 99% that matter?

I'd love to see the Bond films restored too, to correct the hatchet job Lowry did in 2005, but I also understand that I'm in such a vocal minority that EON has no logical reason to do it.
 
B

Bobby Roberts

Banned
Mortimer Brewster said:
If this came from another person other then Bill "I will swallow whatever PR speak a Distributor gives me to keep the free review copies coming in" Hunt, I might buy it. The Bits might have once been a good place for info but they have become very irrelevant.
Click to expand...

Jesus Christ.

Do you think Hunt is lying about

a) the conference having occurred or
b) the account being given to him?

Like, I have a hard time immediately disbelieving the veracity of this report, especially considering it's being credited to two speakers at two studios who have knowledge of what did and didn't happen with the negatives for this movie - which is roughly 3000% more knowledgeable than any other "source" that's reported on this story in the past 2 years.

This is one of the first stories to have featured quotes from people at the restoration department of Disney's.

It's not like they leaked this to Bill on the down low. It was a public event.

Unsure how you could read that and come away with the idea that it's "PR doublespeak"

There aren't even any PR people involved in this.
 
S

Sephzilla

Member
Solo said:
There's no financial motivation or reason to do it. Why spend the money (and lots of it) on restoring the original cuts for a niche group that probably makes up less than 1% of their fanbase, when they can continue to release the versions they already have, which cost them 0 additional dollars, and sell like hot cakes to the 99% that matter?
Click to expand...

I think you're grossly underestimating how many people actually want the theatrical editions. Plus, the financial long term motivation is that "now we have two versions of the trilogy to sell to everyone" instead of one. And there are tons of Star Wars fans who will happily gobble up every version of Star Wars they put out there. Not to mention an eventual bundle that includes both the updated versions as well as the theatrical versions.

Yeah, there's an initial cost for releasing the OT again. But they'd easily make all of that money up and then they can coast on another source of sales for eternity.
 
T

TheXbox

Member
Via Pablo's twitter:
@Shatterhand1701 As far as I know, there's only one person who could make this happen and he hasn't seemed all that interested.
Click to expand...
It's Lucas. Whether or not a clause exists between Lucas and LFL to stick with his vision for the original films is irrelevant, because either way that's exactly what LFL is doing. Pablo himself has said he'd prefer to see the theatricals, but it's not going to happen unless George gives the say-so. Which he won't.
 
T

thecouncil

Banned
I just let out a scream of frustration and scared my cat. Tears are running down my face as I type this. It's just not fair that George, even in death, is keeping this from us. I want my childhood back, you flanneled fuck.
 
R

rrs

Member
I've heard that there is one or two untouched reels at high quality, but are in private hands and haven't been seen in forever
 
M

Mortimer Brewster

Member
Sephzilla said:
I'm in the camp of "they can do it", just to be clear. I don't believe for a moment that they don't have the original prints of the theatrical OT.
Click to expand...


The only thing that they did confirm was that the original elements and negatives DO exist and have been preserved, so it's only a matter of time and the films 40th anniversary is the best time to do so. This idea of waiting for the new trilogy to be done is bullshjt since they can launch the theatrical cuts as a 40th anniversary package, make a shit ton of money alone off them this year and then come back to the well in 2020 with a big box set with all 9 films including both versions of the OT.
 
S

Solo

Member
Sephzilla said:
I think you're grossly underestimating how many people actually want the theatrical editions. Plus, the financial long term motivation is that "now we have two versions of the trilogy to sell to everyone" instead of one. And there are tons of Star Wars fans who will happily gobble up every version of Star Wars they put out there. Not to mention an eventual bundle that includes both the updated versions as well as the theatrical versions.
Click to expand...

I mean, it's absolutely anecdotal, but internet message boards are the only place I've ever heard people pine for the original cuts. I've never met a real, live human being who in the course of normal discourse mentioned how they're dying to see the original cuts of Star Wars re-released.
 
C

CloudyTuba

Member
The rumors will keep happening, nothing can stop it.

I have no reason to believe they are coming but one could argue that they're trying to save the surprise for celebration. There's no evidence to support that though. You'll see a whole bunch of guessing game articles about it right before the event for sure.

Every five minutes there's another rumor so I'm solidly in the camp of, "I'll believe it when I see it." It's good to have solid confirmation that it's at least possible, though.
 
B

Bobby Roberts

Banned
rrs said:
I've heard that there is one or two untouched reels at high quality, but are in private hands and haven't been seen in forever
Click to expand...

As the article itself states, there are multiple high-quality prints available, both in archives, and privately owned. It's not a matter of the materials not existing. Lucasfilm has the materials needed to recreate the theatricals (and even if they didn't - they just resurrected a dead man for Rogue One. They can recreate splodeys just fine). They just apparently do not feel the need to do so.

Here's the other thing: The longer this doesn't happen, the less likely it is to ever happen outside of fan preservations. The audiences coming to this series are growing bigger and bigger, and for many of them, they just don't give that much of a shit. The old farts who care this much (and have made so much noise for 20 straight years) are not just being drowned out, they're dwindling.
 
E

Emarv

Member
Could they announce that they're gonna start the restoration process with a release date in the future?

#I want to believe
 
M

Mortimer Brewster

Member
Bobby Roberts said:
Jesus Christ.

Do you think Hunt is lying about

a) the conference having occurred or
b) the account being given to him?

Like, I have a hard time immediately disbelieving the veracity of this report, especially considering it's being credited to two speakers at two studios who have knowledge of what did and didn't happen with the negatives for this movie - which is roughly 3000% more knowledgeable than any other "source" that's reported on this story in the past 2 years.

This is one of the first stories to have featured quotes from people at the restoration department of Disney's.

It's not like they leaked this to Bill on the down low. It was a public event.

Unsure how you could read that and come away with the idea that it's "PR doublespeak"

There aren't even any PR people involved in this.
Click to expand...


No I don't think Hunt is "lying", he is just naive and will take anything that is divulged to him as the gospel, despite it is Disney's interest to keep any new releases secret until Celebration for maximum PR effect.

Also anyone who goes out to these events is in PR. They don't just let anyone out for these events. They are given PR training and have PR handlers with them.
 
B

Bobby Roberts

Banned
Mortimer Brewster said:
No I don't think Hunt is "lying", he is just naive and will take anything that is divulged to him as the gospel, despite it is Disney's interest to keep any new releases secret until Celebration for maximum PR effect.

Also anyone who goes out to these events is in PR. They don't just let anyone out for these events. They are given PR training and have PR handlers with them.
Click to expand...

So you're a conspiracy theorist. OK.
 
B

Beer Monkey

Member
In addition, 20th Century Fox’s Senior Vice President of Library and Technical Services, Shawn Belston, was also on hand at the Wexner event last night. He confirmed that all of the “trims” removed from the original cut negative (in the mid-1990s, to create the SEs) still exist as well.
Click to expand...

Yeah, no shit.

I can't believe people still run around saying that the original elements don't exist any more. Never was there a chance of that being true.
 
T

TheXbox

Member
Emarv said:
Could they announce that they're gonna start the restoration process with a release date in the future?

#I want to believe
Click to expand...
I don't have any knowledge on film restoration, but the turnaround would have to be nigh-immediate. September is the absolute latest they could release a newly-restored theatrical collection before it interferes with TLJ. That means getting Lucas' permission, striking a deal with Fox, sourcing original negatives, cleaning and restoring all of the old footage, printing discs, and shipping to retail, all in the space of four-ish months.

Again, I know fuck all about this kind of process, but that sounds pretty unreasonable to me.
 
S

Solo

Member
Yeah, that's the other thing here. There is a whole generation now to whom Star Wars IS the 2004 or 2011 or whatever cuts. Those are the "original cuts" in the eyes of that generation. And that's only going to become more pronounced with the passage of time.
 
B

Bobby Roberts

Banned
Affeinvasion said:
Wouldn't it be better to just do the restoration and then sit on it? I guess they're not worried about film degradation at all?
Click to expand...

Well they just 4K scanned the 97 negative. Or rather, they scanned it like 5 years ago. The 97 negative is apparently in pretty good shape, I guess. And they have all the old existing elements they can scan separately and re-comp in whenever.

That work has apparently not been done yet. They can do it.
 
S

Sephzilla

Member
Bobby Roberts said:
So you're a conspiracy theorist. OK.
Click to expand...

I kind of see where he's coming from, though. If the big surprise was to announce the theatrical cuts at the 40th anniversary and have it be a giant surprise, of course Disney/Lucasfilm going to deny it right up until the moment it happens. That isn't really conspiracy theory, it's a reflection of how most company's handle premature leaks/rumors.
 
D

daveo42

Banned
Modern negatives hold up relatively well and if properly cared for, can last for ages. Even then, they can last well more than a half century. I mean, look at the work being done on the Manos 4k restore. That dude I think has one of the only complete negatives of the film in existence.

Beer Monkey said:
Yeah, no shit.

I can't believe people still run around saying that the original elements don't exist any more. Never was there a chance of that being true.
Click to expand...

Of course they still exist, but there isn't a complete negative of the theatrical releases, at least held by Disney or Lucas.
 
B

Boem

Member
Only an asshole would come in now with 'I told you so from the beginning of this set of rumors'.

But yeah, I'll admit, I am a bit of an asshole. We've been on this merry-go-round a couple times too many for me to still believe it every time a couple of little vague hints line up if you look at them in just the right light. Like I said in the other thread, it's Half-Life 3 at this point. I'll never believe these rumors until Kathleen Kennedy or George Lucas or somebody similar is on a stage announcing it.

Unlike Half-Life 3, I'm a bit more positive about it happening at some point though. But the 'clues' the rumors were based on weren't strong enough for me to believe this was going to be the time.

Whatever the big surprise is going to be at Celebration: It could be anything. It's Star Wars. They're working on a million things. Announcing the new spinoff movie, the trailer for Last Jedi (that one's almost a given), just a lot of people from the OT on stage together, maybe a cinema rerelease of the OT for a couple of weeks, hell, a tv show. I could go on. But it won't be a restoration of the original theatrical cuts.

thecouncil said:
I just let out a scream of frustration and scared my cat. Tears are running down my face as I type this. It's just not fair that George, even in death, is keeping this from us. I want my childhood back, you flanneled fuck.
Click to expand...

This made me laugh.
Sorry on the off-chance it was sincere.
 
B

Bobby Roberts

Banned
Sephzilla said:
I kind of see where he's coming from, though. If the big surprise was to announce the theatrical cuts at the 40th anniversary and have it be a giant surprise, of course they're going to deny it right up until the moment it happens.
Click to expand...

But this isn't a "denial" though. Like, I can see where he's coming from too. I understand it. But it's like, the definition of confirmation bias. It's chucking shit out that interferes with the narrative you want to come true for the sake of denying the one that's repeatedly been reinforced as reality over the past five years.

Even before this latest rumor piggybacked on the "we've got a special announcement at Celebration" thing, people have been wondering if the 40th anniversary would be the thing, and all reporting that has actually been worth a shit (i.e. not Inverse/Slashfilm level 5k word speculation built around a single tweet or facebook post) has consistently reinforced the notion that nobody's worked on shit yet, there's no intention to release the theatrical versions anytime soon, and they definitely don't currently exist.

The idea that this is all a huge smokescreen to fool people for maximum PR effect assumes the PR effect would be huge in the first place, huge enough to ensure a multi-year clampdown on any/all details getting out for the sake of a surprise announcement at a fan convention that probably wasn't even conceived of back in 2012.

COULD it happen? Sure. Anything's possible. It's just not very plausible—even if I'd like it to be really, really badly. But it isn't. At least not in the face of someone finally getting someone at both Disney AND Fox to speak directly to the state of Reliance's 4K restoration.
 
C

ClivePwned

Member
I understand that there is a limited audience for Star Wars to warrant an expensive restorat... I almost finished that sentence but I couldn't.

Fuck.
 
T

TheXbox

Member
Hagi said:
I like to be disappointed so I'll hold out hope for celebration anyway.
Click to expand...
Imagine your surprise when the big "reveal" is Harrison Ford stumbling onto the stage, stoned off his ass, to say a few words about how great the Star Wars is, followed by a brief appearance by George Lucas, who will placate the hysterical audience with a wave and a forced admission about how excited he is for the future of the franchise.

Take your 90 seconds of TLJ footage and be happy, it's all we're gonna get.

Sectorseven said:
So what's the big announcement in April everyone is expecting?
Click to expand...
We don't if there is an announcement. Just some vague allusions to 'surprises' in the context of celebrating the original 1977 Star Wars film - not the franchise, mind you, just that one movie.
 
N

Nerrel

Member
I'm an idiot. Can someone explain the status of the original negative and why it doesn't exist more clearly? The cuts made to the film are self explanatory, but is that all that's "wrong" with the original negative in the sense that it could be reassembled, and that's all it would take to restore an original cut of the film? The talk about the special edition being the only version that exists implies that the alterations to the negative go beyond that, like somehow adding CGI to the films led to the negative itself being altered or destroyed, and I have no idea how that would work or why it would happen.


One thing that makes me skeptical of this news is that it would make more sense for Disney to release the 4k special editions first, then the original cuts down the road. They're bound to get a lot of fans to double dip that way. If they did the original cuts now then I doubt many people would want to buy a special edition set. It wouldn't surprise me if they fully intend to do the restoration work and just don't want to talk about it in the interest of enticing people into buying the special editions.
 
-shadow-

-shadow-

Member
I really find it hard to believe that they actually changed the original negative. I know that they've said that for the past twenty years (man it's been twenty years), but why would you destroy your own original negative?
 
B

Bobby Roberts

Banned
Sectorseven said:
So what's the big announcement in April everyone is expecting?
Click to expand...

Well, they were starting to seriously hope for the theatrical versions. But it's probably just gonna be a big box-set using the 4K restorations as a source. Some new changes, if the first real report on this is to be believed, some reversions (meaning the Greedo scene now plays like it initially did) and maybe a bunch of never-before-seen extras or something? Maybe?

I'm personally hoping for new soundtrack news, but I already know that's a) a longshot and b) something that probably isn't going to be a big priority, not big enough to be a stage announcement at the 40th panel.
 
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