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Should Valve provide more support for old games sold on their store?

F

fireflame

Member
A lot of games are sold on Steam, and some of them can be very old. Howewer, you are not warned of technical issues you may have with old games, and the technical requirements do not necessarily help either.

Some games from the past age well but other were built with specificial architectures of computers in mind, and you can get a lot of trouble to run them(jedi knight dark forces 2 comes to mind) unless you can find fixes and workaround provided by fans.

Should Valve not consider providing a more significant help to users to be able to run those kind of games? Some of those games are from defunct studios or the ips have been bought by other studios, making it even harder to get official help.

Among examples that come to mind, are games like Divinie Divinity or Desperados, which can require you to disable cpu's cores to be able to run them without crash, games which have blinking issues in full screen mode, like Dark Forces 2, cinematics that do not work...

I understand issues have to happen with old games, but i think a bit of official help from the persons running Steam would not help.I am seeing the issues in terms of QA, if i can say so.
At some point games that cannot run on an important numberof pc configurations should either get help to be made operational, or be removed from sale.

Some of the issues can be hard to figure even for people who are used to tweaking files or dealing with compatibility issues in games.

I have read and experience that Gog for example patches old games to make them work on modern pc, even if it is not always perfect there is an effort to have them work.
 
Think there's just way too many to curate. If anything I'd expect a more practical solution would be crowdsourcing compatibility reports and fixes from the community which has been the (reasonably effective) MO on many facets of the store.

You typically get wind of things not running on one OS or another, relevant fixes, must-have tweaks/mods/etc. from reviews or forum posts - it just would need to be funneled into a more concise way of conveying such information.
 
There's an argument to be made that Valve should be more proactive in making help available for games that don't work on modern systems or otherwise generally require some fiddling, such as pinning a guide thread in the Steam Community hub, but it's no surprise that's left up to publishers and moderators given the logistics involved (i.e. having to occasionally check in on hundreds if not already thousands of games), the refund policy protecting customers in the event they purchase something that just refuses to play nicely, and the eventual removal of titles that are widely reported as non-functional (a game that works for nobody is quite literally worthless, after all).
 
Falk said:
Think there's just way too many to curate. If anything I'd expect a more practical solution would be crowdsourcing compatibility reports and fixes from the community which has been the (reasonably effective) MO on many facets of the store.

You typically get wind of things not running on one OS or another, relevant fixes, must-have tweaks/mods/etc. from reviews or forum posts - it just would need to be funneled into a more concise way of conveying such information.
Click to expand...

Pretty much this. PC games for the longest time has been kept compatible through the means of community patches and the like. If the game is good enough and has enough of a following then you're more than likely still going to be able to play it in some way regardless of developer support.
 
The main reason why I always go with GOG for anything more than 7-8 years old. Tried to get back into XCOM: Enemy Unknown the other day and after hours of scouring for fixes I couldn't find a way to get it to launch in Windows 10 (and that game is less than 5 years old for crying out loud). TBF though it's more on Firaxis for dropping the old game like a bad habit once the sequel came out :/
 
I did a double take because I thought you were talking about the original X-COM hahah.

That's a bad look.
 
At this point I don't think they can. There's just too many games at this point.
It doesn't help that they like destroyed the old steam forums where a lot of the solutions for issues were at.
 
I don't really think Valve is the one to have to provide that information, the publishers and developers of those games should be.

Valve does provide message boards for every game so I imagine the solution to a lot of common issues can be found on those.
 
I can't get Soul Reaver to work on Windows 10 and there isn't any warning on the page.

I bought a key during a charity sale or something like that so I can't refund it.
 
If Microsoft cared about PC gaming would they be more proactive in making their OSes more backward compatible friendly? I mean this pure utopia, but they should just allow games to boot up into specific OS modes so I don't have to download patches for Max Payne 1. OK I know I'm asking for too much, but then again, make it happen maaaaan. I wouldn't even mind if new OSes were packaged with legacy OSes that you could flip between when activating a game. OK, maybe I'm going a little too crazy now.
 
PillarEN said:
If Microsoft cared about PC gaming would they be more proactive in making their OSes more backward compatible friendly? I mean this pure utopia, but they should just allow games to boot up into specific OS modes so I don't have to download patches for Max Payne 1. OK I know I'm asking for too much, but then again, make it happen maaaaan. I wouldn't even mind if new OSes were packaged with legacy OSes that you could flip between when activating a game. OK, maybe I'm going a little too crazy now.
Click to expand...

That's... the idea with compatibility mode.

There's only so much you can do at a general level without going into per-software-specific fixes.
 
Falk said:
Think there's just way too many to curate. If anything I'd expect a more practical solution would be crowdsourcing compatibility reports and fixes from the community which has been the (reasonably effective) MO on many facets of the store.

You typically get wind of things not running on one OS or another, relevant fixes, must-have tweaks/mods/etc. from reviews or forum posts - it just would need to be funneled into a more concise way of conveying such information.
Click to expand...
I like this idea. Guides go toward part of this but having full blown community curated wiki built right into Steam client, including hosting space for patches would certainly be pretty nice to have.
 
CrunchyFrog said:
The main reason why I always go with GOG for anything more than 7-8 years old. Tried to get back into XCOM: Enemy Unknown the other day and after hours of scouring for fixes I couldn't find a way to get it to launch in Windows 10 (and that game is less than 5 years old for crying out loud). TBF though it's more on Firaxis for dropping the old game like a bad habit once the sequel came out :/
Click to expand...
GoG has gotten fairly lazy lately as well. Their dos box is outdated, settings are old and sometimes non functioning and overall QA has gone down quite a bit. Mind you, I still use them almost exclusively for older games but they are not a panacea.
 
Yeah, my system purchased Roller Coaster Tycoon 2 and it wouldn't run on her Windows 10 laptop. Had to Google through a fan forum to find the solution (which involved enabling DirectPlay in the Windows 10 "enable/disable windows features" and forcing the game to run in 640x480 mode because it doesn't understand desktop resolutions beyond 1024x768 - I ended up using the fan-made patch that adds supports for higher resolutions for a better experience).

It would be nice if this information was easier to find directly on Steam. The game discussion boards weren't much help. Valve themselves fixing the game (which could be done with a installation script setting the proper registry flags and compatibility bits) is a bit too far fetched to expect since games are mostly self-published and crowdsourcing these actual settings in a way that isn't open to remote execution exploits (like running batch files or registry files written by the community) is complicated.

PillarEN said:
If Microsoft cared about PC gaming would they be more proactive in making their OSes more backward compatible friendly? I mean this pure utopia, but they should just allow games to boot up into specific OS modes so I don't have to download patches for Max Payne 1. OK I know I'm asking for too much, but then again, make it happen maaaaan. I wouldn't even mind if new OSes were packaged with legacy OSes that you could flip between when activating a game. OK, maybe I'm going a little too crazy now.
Click to expand...

They actually do far more than people give them credit. I remember reading some W10 update notes in their knowledge base and some of them were compatibility updates listing fixes for several of Windows 98-era software and games, many quite obscure ones.

However, there's only so much they can do when some games simply cannot deal with hardware that didn't exist like actual multiple cores and higher resolutions.
 
Falk said:
That's... the idea with compatibility mode.

There's only so much you can do at a general level without going into per-software-specific fixes.
Click to expand...

Ah. Well that explains the games that gave me trouble and didn't seem to act any different when I tried those compatibility modes. Just thought they were superficial haha.
 
Htown said:
I am damn sure that most of those games that "aren't supported" run fine on Windows 10. I didn't even play Borderlands 2 until I was on Windows 10.
Click to expand...

Yeah, even the FAQ itself alludes to that distinct possibility with "Just because a game doesn't support Windows 10 doesn't necessarily mean it won't run on the operating system." The list isn't a statement on the titles' compatibility with Win10 so much as it is a representation of where they stand within the purview of 2K's assurance on Win10 compatibility, which is to say that "unsupported" titles are considered EOL in terms of post-release support and may be left non-functional if an OS update breaks compatibility.
 
Whenever I've ran into an issue with an old game, I've either found the solution on the Discussion board or I've posted on the discussion board (and got a response within 24 hours with the fix). Sure, it'd be great to have crowdsourced compatibility reports. Functionality like reviews where people could focus on the technical aspects of things.... But with Steam Refunds and the ability to communicate with other users about any game on the platform easily.... The tools are at our disposal.
 
I assume at somepoint most apps will run in some kind of vm container that will solve some compatibility issues.
PillarEN said:
If Microsoft cared about PC gaming would they be more proactive in making their OSes more backward compatible friendly? I mean this pure utopia, but they should just allow games to boot up into specific OS modes so I don't have to download patches for Max Payne 1. OK I know I'm asking for too much, but then again, make it happen maaaaan. I wouldn't even mind if new OSes were packaged with legacy OSes that you could flip between when activating a game. OK, maybe I'm going a little too crazy now.
Click to expand...
Eh if there is one thing Microsoft should be applauded for is Windows app compatibility. Its the reason its still around.
 
No i think that's the job ob the publisher and/or developer who is still selling the game.

Not the storefront
Steam is not even a single unified platform
 
I think if a game is featured for sale or advertised on the home page to everyone then the current version of Windows should be able to complete the game without community patches or mods.

If you can't certify that don't advertise the game on the home page.
 
People who think GOG is any better than Steam wrt support for older titles don't seem to have their facts straight.
GOG is somewhat good for DOS era titles (although none of the games sold on their site is tested thoroughly, so you still may run into some issues with the ancient DOSBox build they are using), but when it comes to Win32 titles... The support you get is basically same as on Steam - latest official patch and maybe a link to community patches in the discussion board.
 
DeliciousDoc said:
Gog does it and like any big monopoly, steam won't make any unnecessary effort until gog starts being a threat to them.
Click to expand...
That's wrong, GoG doesn't do any more post-launch support than Steam does. In both cases, that's up to the publisher/developer.
And really, that's the only viable path.

I do think the idea of making crowdsourced fixes more easily available/discoverable has merit.
 
Thankfully many fixes are in the forums, but it really is a hassle sometimes (though understandable due to the changing specs of PCs)
I think offering refunds is sort of them throwing the towel in this regard
 
I think high selling classic games should be updated with Windows 10 and controller support.

Easy money, fairly minimal work.

I know steam controller is "controller support" in a way, but it's not the same.
 
it's cool how the mac version of metal gear rising on steam just doesn't work at all anymore because it relied on a DRM server for a company that no longer exists, and yet it's still for sale on steam
 
BernardoOne said:
The current publishers of the games are the ones that need to provide a solution and fixes for their customers.
Click to expand...

This.

70% of the revenue of a game goes to the publisher, right? So why should the onus be on Valve to detail technical problems and provide support?
 
Definitely should be more info on the store page if this is an issue. Having to delve into the cess pit of the Steam forums to get fixes is the last thing I want to do.
 
fireflame said:
Should Valve not consider providing a more significant help to users to be able to run those kind of games? Some of those games are from defunct studios or the ips have been bought by other studios, making it even harder to get official help.
Click to expand...

Sure, but someone is still selling these games. I think it falls on whoever is selling the games to provide help rather than Valve.

gelf said:
Definitely should be more info on the store page if this is an issue. Having to delve into the cess pit of the Steam forums to get fixes is the last thing I want to do.
Click to expand...

I have "delved into the pits" several times and never had an issue.
 
A more prominent placement for community fixes/rescources could help. Not only for old titles, plenty of modern releases benefit from this as well.

I'm not sure Valve can "fix" broken games themselves even if they wanted to though.
 
They should.

Example: Vampire the Masquerade is a factually broken game and is still been sold. You literally need a fan patch to get it to even start the game.

Side note:The GOG version has the fan patch integrated.
 
Starbuck2907 said:
I think high selling classic games should be updated with Windows 10 and controller support.

Easy money, fairly minimal work.

I know steam controller is "controller support" in a way, but it's not the same.
Click to expand...
The Steam controller remapping settings can be applied to almost any pad you can throw at it now. I feel that's already a better solution then patching a bunch of old games one by one.
 
Card Boy said:
They should.

Example: Vampire the Masquerade is a factually broken game and is still been sold. You literally need a fan patch to get it to even start the game.

Side note:The GOG version has the fan patch integrated.
Click to expand...

GOG:

Company: Troika Games / Activision
Click to expand...

Steam:

Developer: Troika Games Publisher: Activision
Click to expand...

Activision being lazy and not patching the Steam version to include the fan-patch isn't Valve's fault. Valve could pressure Acti by removing the game from the store until it's patched, but if Acti choose not to patch it, then it's just removed from the store permanantly.

Hell, unless the build on GOG is exclusive to GOG, they could just upload it to Steam, and have the exact same version on both stores. Again, not Valve's fault that they haven't done this.
 
Pixieking said:
GOG:



Steam:



Activision being lazy and not patching the Steam version to include the fan-patch isn't Valve's fault. Valve could pressure Acti by removing the game from the store until it's patched, but if Acti choose not to patch it, then it's just removed from the store permanantly.

Hell, unless the build on GOG is exclusive to GOG, they could just upload it to Steam, and have the exact same version on both stores. Again, not Valve's fault that they haven't done this.
Click to expand...

Valve runs the store. Valve is responsible for selling products on their store. If the products on Steam fundamentally do not work, Valve should either demand the publisher fix them or stop selling them.

Valve is not an impartial party to this. They are profiting from the sale of the broken items.
 
Guess Who said:
Valve runs the store. Valve is responsible for selling products on their store. If the products on Steam fundamentally do not work, Valve should either demand the publisher fix them or stop selling them.

Valve is not an impartial party to this. They are profiting from the sale of the broken items.
Click to expand...

If I buy a broken item in a store, I return it for a refund, and complain to the manufacturer.

Both of these actions are things consumers need to do. Because whilst Valve profit from the sale of broken games, the publisher ultimately wins more than Valve - both in terms of revenue, and in terms of PR. This thread is proof of that - "Valve should do more", not "The publisher of this broken game should do more."
 
Pixieking said:
If I buy a broken item in a store, I return it for a refund, and complain to the manufacturer.

Both of these actions are things consumers need to do. Because whilst Valve profit from the sale of broken games, the publisher ultimately wins more than Valve - both in terms of revenue, and in terms of PR. This thread is proof of that - "Valve should do more", not "The publisher of this broken game should do more."
Click to expand...

Sure. But if a bunch of people return an item to the store because it's definitely broken, and the store continues selling the item for months or even years despite knowing it doesn't work (because customers have been returning it and telling them so), and does not tell you prior to buying it that the item does not work - it should be obvious the store bears some responsibility here for continuing to sell it!

No one is saying publishers shouldn't proactively fix their games without Valve demanding it. No one is saying publishers don't bear any responsibility. But, in the event a publisher or developer ultimately doesn't fix the game, then the responsibility falls on Valve to either tell you about the issues or stop selling the product.
 
Doesnt enhacedSteam already does something like that for performance? I think that only works if people have taken the survey so its not a fix, but it already has a link to pcgamingwiki, which usually contains the issues that people have found, so it could be possible to modify enhacedSteam to show the issues directly on the page. Would only work with the browser thought :/

Valve should partner up with pcgamingwiki to get that community info and fixed directly from them and show them on the page.
 
Guess Who said:
Sure. But if a bunch of people return an item to the store because it's definitely broken, and the store continues selling the item for months or even years despite knowing it doesn't work (because customers have been returning it and telling them so), and does not tell you prior to buying it that the item does not work - it should be obvious the store bears some responsibility here for continuing to sell it!

No one is saying publishers shouldn't proactively fix their games without Valve demanding it. No one is saying publishers don't bear any responsibility. But, in the event a publisher or developer ultimately doesn't fix the game, then the responsibility falls on Valve to either tell you about the issues or stop selling the product.
Click to expand...

Mmmmm... This is fair, yeah. I just feel putting the weight on the store is something we're only asking because it's Valve. I mean, would you say the same about Amazon? But, yeah, it's one of those things that Valve expects publishers to do on the honour system - give a warning that the game isn't compatible with some OSs or needs a fix - and yet there's no recriminations if they don't.
 
PillarEN said:
If Microsoft cared about PC gaming would they be more proactive in making their OSes more backward compatible friendly? I mean this pure utopia, but they should just allow games to boot up into specific OS modes so I don't have to download patches for Max Payne 1. OK I know I'm asking for too much, but then again, make it happen maaaaan. I wouldn't even mind if new OSes were packaged with legacy OSes that you could flip between when activating a game. OK, maybe I'm going a little too crazy now.
Click to expand...

This sounds reasonable, but if they implement this I can't see them supporting non-Windows Store games.
 
Basically, you have to submit to the discussion forums as your help crutch. And if you discover it is a total brick wall, you just have to accept it.
 
I wonder how people imagine this would work.
  • Valve doesn't have game sources, so it is simply impossible for them to actually patch old games.
  • If they were to stop selling games that are not 100% compatible with your OS, I'd see that as a major drawback. In the current system, I can buy a game and make it work with (often trivial) fixes. I couldn't even buy it in the other system. (This is, by the way, the type of paternalism that I so detest about "app store" models)
  • Really, the only thing I could realistically see as something Valve could do is to provide more information about compatibility on the store page, but that is also generally managed by the publisher on Steam.

Widge said:
Basically, you have to submit to the discussion forums as your help crutch. And if you discover it is a total brick wall, you just have to accept it.
Click to expand...
Well, if that happens then you can refund the game.
 
BernardoOne said:
The current publishers of the games are the ones that need to provide a solution and fixes for their customers.
Click to expand...

Yeah. I would like to see a "verified Win 10 compatibility" stamp on the steam store. As a customer I would avoid games without it, as a publisher I would have incentive to make my games work without jumping through hoops.
 
Guess Who said:
it's cool how the mac version of metal gear rising on steam just doesn't work at all anymore because it relied on a DRM server for a company that no longer exists, and yet it's still for sale on steam
Click to expand...
Leave a bad review, dude. If not for yourself then for future buyers. Don't be afraid to raise some hell if they deserve it.
 
Durante said:
That's wrong, GoG doesn't do any more post-launch support than Steam does. In both cases, that's up to the publisher/developer.
And really, that's the only viable path.

I do think the idea of making crowdsourced fixes more easily available/discoverable has merit.
Click to expand...

Open Steam Workshop up to legacy games in general. I can't see why even publishers would be against it.
 
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