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Suicide and NieR:Automata

There will be spoilers for the whole game

So I was lying in bed last night, as you do, but instead of sleeping I just thought about this topic and the idea of making a thread about it. Suicide is something I have a close relationship with, my father did it 9 years ago, my sister has attempted it numerous times and I am routinely plagued with thoughts of doing it myself. So N:A struck a chord with me in how it approaches suicide very much unlike pretty much any other game out there.

To start, I'll go over one of the first overt instances you encounter, the Machine Lifeform cult in the factory. What initially seems as the Machines experimenting with religion quickly becomes a death cult with the "death" of their Leader, Kierkegaard. You're chased through the factory as the Machines scream at you to "become as gods", as they've come to the conclusion that death is the final salvation. When you run through the areas of the factory you saw in the prologue, you witness numerous Machines jumping into fire, yelling that they will be "freed from their torment". It's an unnerving sequence of events, and the main character 2B and her partner for this section, Pascal, are mostly just confused. There's no condemning and there's no praise for the things they witnessed, much like most things in the game.

Later in the game (Route B to be exact) you encounter a small number of Wise Machines perched atop high structures. They don't respond to your attempts to communicate, but 9S can hack into them to hear their inner thoughts. They're plagued with thoughts of worthlessness, that "none of us in this world are loved", that their existence of just being cogs in a fruitless war has no meaning. Some of these thoughts have mirrored my own, and the effect of hacking also causes 9S to start to mirror these thoughts as well. But the conclusion these Machines come to is self-termination, as the fling themselves from their perches and explode on the ground below. 9S is incredulous, how could a being just choose to end it? I've had the same thoughts as well, did my father have the same ideas? Was everything truly not worth it? Did he think he wasn't loved in this world? I'll never know.

Flash forward to Route C, and 9S has quickly deteriorated mentally, following 2B's infection with a virus and subsequent suicide via unit A2. If you do the Gathering Keepsakes sidequest, in which 9S is tasked with finding the remains of a Resistance member's friends, it ends with 9S going to Emil's sanctuary and placing a grave for 2B. After finishing, he remarks that he'll "be with her soon", revealing that he doesn't plan on living after his goal of killing the Machines and A2, whether he dies by their hands or his own. Only his rage keeps him going, with death being the only relief.

But Nier: Automata ends with hope. The Machines leave the planet, in hopes of finding a new world, hopefully one where they can escape the cycle of death and war, and find meaning in their existence. 2B, 9S and A2 are given a second chance at life, a chance to move forward in the world, a chance to maybe make the same mistakes they already did but by their own free will. And the person playing the game fights for their sake as well during the final hacking minigame, where after numerous defeats you are given help by other players. When everything is at its worst, there are still other people who are willing to give a hand. Don't give up, keep fighting. That's what I'm going to do.

NieR: Automata is a very personal game. It really depends on the person playing it what they get out of it. To quote a Machine from the game, "How much you enjoy something depends on your own heart". This was just a sample of some moments that really left a mark on me.

I'm not really used to writing anything as longform as this, it is kind of an experiment in getting some thoughts out.
 

Canti

Member
Unfortunately don't have much to add regarding Automata specifically as I'm still planning to pick it up after a price drop.

What I do find commendable though is the frankness in your OP and the interesting way in which modern videogames allow us to explore particular themes/emotions that could not be expressed through the medium in the past. Whilst I still skew towards arcade style games for that high-score itch, a narrative driven experience can grab my attention for addressing a subject/emotion that I would have never imagined tackled 20 years ago.

For all the issues with modern gaming its ever expanding depth and ability to connect with people from all backgrounds and outlooks gives me some hope for the medium's future. Some games can be great for self reflection and despite the geeky stigma still often associated with them, I'm glad for any that can help others through tough times.
 

Demoskinos

Member
Nier Automata is an incredibly special game. Its an incredible message too. Because the game does constantly keep hitting you over the head with these same real nihilistic approaches to life constantly telling you its pointless to go on. But then at the end its very much about hope and that even if things seem hopeless its always worth it to keep trying.

I resonated quite a lot with Nier Automata as well. Glad you saw it through to the end!
 
Thank you for posting your thoughts on the game OP, can't say I've played NieR Automata myself (I probably don't plan to) so I can't quite add anything specific. I've never had a loved one commit suicide either, but chronic anxiety and depression had made my life a living nightmare for a long time. Suicidal thoughts are a hell that I don't wish on anybody.

I'm glad you enjoyed the game and that its themes resonated with you.
 
one of the most special things about the endings message is how much it assures you thats it ok to take help. Its a message that can't come across in any other medium
 
This games in my backlog but I’ve been thinking about how more media should tastefully bring awareness to suicide. This thread definitely has pushed it up to my next big game to play.
 

jacobeid

Banned
I appreciate the OP's openness with discussing such a sensitive subject. You are absolutely right that Nier approaches suicide differently than most media, but I had not fully thought about all of the points that you bring up.

Call a hotline or talk to a friend or person you trust or go to a clinic/hospital if you ever get that again.

Agreed. Hell, people here would be more than willing to listen too, myself included. PMs are always open to anyone who need someone to talk to, regarding this subject or anything else.
 

HeelPower

Member
I think the ending is really bold.

When it asks me to delete my save,it was like asking me to stare mortality and finality of experience right in the eye and admit to it.

It may seem uplifting ,but it also admits to pretty dark truths.

Its schopenhauerian.
 
You know the ending to a game is truly special when it not only makes you tear up while playing it, but also on any subsequent rematches of others experiencing it, as well as simply reading a thread like this.

If you ever need to talk to anyone about your thoughts, my PMs are always open, and like the end of NieR: Automata, I'm sure there's no shortage of people who would be happy to give you aid in whatever form they can.

Thanks again for the personal thread OP, and remember: we're here with you.
 

saturnine

Member
Whilst I still skew towards arcade style games for that high-score itch, a narrative driven experience can grab my attention for addressing a subject/emotion that I would have never imagined tackled 20 years ago.
"Funny" you should say that, because Final Fantasy VI broached the subject of suicide 23 years ago.
 
Thanks for the kind words everyone.

NieR (both of them) are very special games and I'm glad someone at Square Enix was crazy enough to give Yoko Taro money to make them.
 

Inuhanyou

Believes Dragon Quest is a franchise managed by Sony
Furiae killing herself was one of the bigger deviating points of the entire franchise, you cant get away from it when dealing with this kind of lore
 

grimmiq

Member
Thread about Nier: Automata and Suicide and no talk about the Machine Children being taught what fear is and committing suicide? That was one of the parts that got me, Pascal teaching them about fear, so they wouldn't rush into danger, then the children becoming overwhelmed by it and killing themselves.
 

Crayon

Member
Theres superficial glamorized darkness like many games and media aspire to portray and then there's real life darkness. The real stuff is what we live with and it's the opposite of superficial and glamorous. It goes to the bone and it's humbling. Nier tries to say something about the real darkness and it does a pretty good job.
 
D

Deleted member 465307

Unconfirmed Member
The thread title intrigued me enough to click on it, but since I haven't played this game, I skipped the OP after the first line. However, the first comment in this thread rekindled my desire to play it and eventually revisit this thread.

I have a base PS4 currently and won't have a gaming PC until some time next year; is the base PS4 version a solid version of the game?
 
Thank you for sharing your thoughts and experience with us OP.

Nier Automata is a truly amazing game and I'm glad that it managed to help you in some ways.
 

sandpiper

Member
Yoko Taro himself has stated that watching one of his friends fall to his death off a roof while the group was messing around as kids has affected the way he looks at the world drastically. It wasn't suicide, but still.

From a Drakengard 3 interview:

Y: To sort of change the topic a little, I remember back in the day when I used to hang out with some friends at an arcade in a local shopping street. There was this really long roof that some of us liked to climb up and walk up and down the thing for awhile. One time, though, one of my friends slipped and died from the fall.

He was completely motionless except for his “goods”…… It was an undeniably horrible event but it was still kinda funny to have noticed something like that. I remember laughing with the others about it.

I think it’s really hard to know how to react in a serious event like that. I didn’t want to display a one-sided emotional view of “fear” and “death” with DOD3.

http://nier2.com/blog/2014/02/28/an-interview-with-yoko-taro-by-4gamer/

You can see tinges of that mentality in Automata, too.
 

RalchAC

Member
There are more cases, like when the racer machines explodes after you defeat the last challenge or Engel accepting the fact t he'll switch off. Or the kids from Pascal village. Or Pascal himself. Or the machine in the cliff that divides the city from the shopping mall. Or the machine that's in the entrance of a bunker in the desert. Or my save file...

It's quite unsettling, how little sense of self preservation they have. But I guess it's part of the point.

In general, both Android and Machines try to imitate human behavior. The former seem better suited to that, but the machines seem to lack any sense of self preservation. It could be a trace of them being built as a hive mind designed for fighting, who knows. The fact that they can live hundreds of years may be another piece of the puzzles.
 
The thread title intrigued me enough to click on it, but since I haven't played this game, I skipped the OP after the first line. However, the first comment in this thread rekindled my desire to play it and eventually revisit this thread.

I have a base PS4 currently and won't have a gaming PC until some time next year; is the base PS4 version a solid version of the game?

I played it through twice on a base PS4 without any real trouble.
 

Antiwhippy

the holder of the trombone
There are more cases, like when the racer machines explodes after you defeat the last challenge or Engel accepting the fact t he'll switch off. Or the kids from Pascal village. Or Pascal himself. Or the machine in the cliff that divides the city from the shopping mall. Or the machine that's in the entrance of a bunker in the desert. Or my save file...

It's quite unsettling, how little sense of self preservation they have. But I guess it's part of the point.

In general, both Android and Machines try to imitate human behavior. The former seem better suited to that, but the machines seem to lack any sense of self preservation. It could be a trace of them being built as a hive mind designed for fighting, who knows. The fact that they can live hundreds of years may be another piece of the puzzles.

One of the themes explored is definitely what existence is for beings that can arguably just reupload themselves into a new body. That's why adam severing himself from the network is a big deal, why 9S constantly being memeory wiped is treated as a death of his "self", and why the bunker being destroyed is such a big deal.

Automata posits that death itself is what lends weight to existence.
 

HvySky

Member
Game of the generation.

Automata has resonated with me on a level that a game hasn't in almost a decade. A tragically beautiful journey that ends with the promise of hope that things can always get better. The final encounter during the credits is going down as one of the most memorable experiences I've ever had with this hobby.
 

Danjin44

The nicest person on this forum
Don't forget about Quests called "Lord of the Valley". It was about bunch of machines throwing themselves off the cliff and you fought the ones weren't successful. Then 9S asks 2B if soul and heaven even exist and the 2B answers "They will find out in the end.......and so will we."
 
Thread about Nier: Automata and Suicide and no talk about the Machine Children being taught what fear is and committing suicide? That was one of the parts that got me, Pascal teaching them about fear, so they wouldn't rush into danger, then the children becoming overwhelmed by it and killing themselves.

That was a great moment.

Edit: Not great as in 'yay', but great as in something that really stuck out.
 

killatopak

Member
I'm glad games like this exist. Although it may not resonate with everyone, the fact that there are numerous other games that have been made or will be made that tackles various themes, makes me happy for the medium.
 

SiteSeer

Member
Don't forget about Quests called "Lord of the Valley". It was about bunch of machines throwing themselves off the cliff and you fought the ones weren't successful. Then 9S asks 2B if soul and heaven even exist and the 2B answers "They will find out in the end.......and so will we."

i remember saying 'damn' out loud when i played that part. too heavy for a fuckin' game man.
 
Automata literally convinced me out of suicide, I've made that no secret. "Life is a sea of embarrassment" might be the most profound thing I've personally ever heard. It literally explains all of my life and the world that we live in today. It also makes my own personal failures as something I can pick myself up from and fail again towards change.
 

sandpiper

Member
Automata literally convinced me out of suicide, I've made that no secret. "Life is a sea of embarrassment" might be the most profound thing I've personally ever heard. It literally explains all of my life and the world that we live in today. It also makes my own personal failures as something I can pick myself up from and fail again towards change.

"And being alive is pretty much a constant stream of embarrassment." IIRC

Probably one of my favorite ending cutscenes thanks to the dialogue.
 

Wonko_C

Member
Loved this game, as I love media that's depressing yet leaves you with hope in the end.

I just remembered there was this very depressing anime where humanity became practically extinct, with most remaining population being robots who were afraid to die due to their bodies decaying. It was called Cashern Sins. Nier Automata's playable credits music even reminded me of one songs in that anime, both songs tugged me at the same heartstrings. I recommend you guys give it a watch but it really gets depressing so maybe don't watch it? LOL. (Now I want to watch it for the 3rd time)

Now that I think of it, both have lots in common.
 
I like how they explored these questions with androids and machines with humanity already being extinct.

Exploring questions regarding the meaning of existence without using humans provided a new perspective since existence is something that we typically only think of in regards to how it applies to humans.
 

Bennettt2

Member
"And being alive is pretty much a constant stream of embarrassment." IIRC

Probably one of my favorite ending cutscenes thanks to the dialogue.

that quote, man. Describes my past decade to a tee. Someone should seriously explore the topic of embarrassment in depth.
 

ChazGW7

Member
My GOTY, and one of the greatest games I have ever played. I loved every single second of it, and the moments you are speaking about hit hard.

Just thinking back to that ending chapter and man... amazing stuff. (Non-story ending spoilers)
I tried to complete that ending on my own with no help for a solid 3 hours or more, refusing to 'give up' and take the easy way out by accepting help. Every time I failed the game would try convince me to accept help. They made that sequence juuuust rage inducing enough solo that I just couldn't do it, so I gave in and accepted the help.

Days or weeks after finishing the game, the game was still on my mind and how its themes continually explored hopelessness, despair, depression and suicide among other things, yet it still ended with hope and showing you that its okay to accept help from others. I was so selfish I refused simple help to finish the video game for 3 hours, only accepting it because it felt impossible. I learnt a valuable lesson about myself that day.

It really is a beautiful game, and parts of it don't fully sink into your mind until you're finished with it for some time.
 

Neptonic

Member
Thread about Nier: Automata and Suicide and no talk about the Machine Children being taught what fear is and committing suicide? That was one of the parts that got me, Pascal teaching them about fear, so they wouldn't rush into danger, then the children becoming overwhelmed by it and killing themselves.
I cried after that part
It was so tragic
 
I was so selfish I refused simple help to finish the video game for 3 hours, only accepting it because it felt impossible. I learnt a valuable lesson about myself that day.
I'm glad to see people getting that message. For you it might've been super selfishness it helped you to see, for me it helped me be more open about my depression issues instead of curling into a ball alone.
 

Nekorin

Neo Member
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Never had a game which made me cry so hard on a vendor screen. Feels so emo even thinking about it now... Definitely GOTY for me.
 
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