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PS3 games list & SPE usages

MikeB

Banned
Added the following comments:

22) NBA 2K7

"Speaking of taking advantage of the PS3's power, the team has been using the computational muscle of the system to enhance a large number of standard features. Cloth physics, for example, have been assigned to one SPU so that jerseys and shorts can move realistically without taking processing power away from the rest of the game. But 2K hopes to move that realism off the court as well. Instead of running cutscenes during timeout situations, 2K has created real-time AI that governs the cheerleaders, mascots, floor cleaners and even the crowd. For example, during a game between Dallas and Miami at the American Airlines Arena, we noticed Burnie (the Heat mascot) doing much more than simply dancing on the sidelines; he would run under Dallas' basket and actively try to distract shooters at the free throw line, and he had new dance sequences during timeouts.

Of course, we wanted to take a look at some of the exclusive PS3 features, and while we couldn't get every detail during this session, we did get a demonstration of how Visual Concepts is planning to use the system's tilt feature. Specifically, players will be able to shoot free throws by moving the controller back and then leaning it forward. While you can do it with minor movements, you can also hold and tilt the controller as if you were actually shooting with a basketball. Thanks to this new system, you'll need to know the particular shooting stroke of players on your team to be successful. So while Dwayne Wade's shooting was a bit easier to handle, Shaq's laborious attempts to balance the ball threw us off every time. Defenders also have a chance to throw-off free throw shots by shaking their controller, which shakes their opponent's screen. While the system still needed some tweaking, because free throws are a little hard to make and visiting teams have way too much influence on a home team's shots, it did demonstrate how creatively the team is approaching the PS3.

Visually, NBA 2K7 has been taken up a notch, particularly in how the game is rendered. According to Thomas, the way the PS3 renders pixels gives its overall look a richer appearance when compared to the 360 version. From a personal standpoint, it looks much more organic and lifelike -- and if you thought you were watching a realistic game on the 360, just wait until you see it on the PS3."

Source: IGN
 

Orlics

Member
MikeB said:
Added the following comments:

22) NBA 2K7

Speaking of taking advantage of the PS3's power, the team has been using the computational muscle of the system to enhance a large number of standard features. Cloth physics, for example, have been assigned to one SPU so that jerseys and shorts can move realistically without taking processing power away from the rest of the game. But 2K hopes to move that realism off the court as well. Instead of running cutscenes during timeout situations, 2K has created real-time AI that governs the cheerleaders, mascots, floor cleaners and even the crowd. For example, during a game between Dallas and Miami at the American Airlines Arena, we noticed Burnie (the Heat mascot) doing much more than simply dancing on the sidelines; he would run under Dallas' basket and actively try to distract shooters at the free throw line, and he had new dance sequences during timeouts.

Of course, we wanted to take a look at some of the exclusive PS3 features, and while we couldn't get every detail during this session, we did get a demonstration of how Visual Concepts is planning to use the system's tilt feature. Specifically, players will be able to shoot free throws by moving the controller back and then leaning it forward. While you can do it with minor movements, you can also hold and tilt the controller as if you were actually shooting with a basketball. Thanks to this new system, you'll need to know the particular shooting stroke of players on your team to be successful. So while Dwayne Wade's shooting was a bit easier to handle, Shaq's laborious attempts to balance the ball threw us off every time. Defenders also have a chance to throw-off free throw shots by shaking their controller, which shakes their opponent's screen. While the system still needed some tweaking, because free throws are a little hard to make and visiting teams have way too much influence on a home team's shots, it did demonstrate how creatively the team is approaching the PS3.

Visually, NBA 2K7 has been taken up a notch, particularly in how the game is rendered. According to Thomas, the way the PS3 renders pixels gives its overall look a richer appearance when compared to the 360 version. From a personal standpoint, it looks much more organic and lifelike -- and if you thought you were watching a realistic game on the 360, just wait until you see it on the PS3.

Source: IGN

Just out of curiosity, did NBA 2k7 really end up looking better on PS3?
 

MikeB

Banned
Orlics said:
Just out of curiosity, did NBA 2k7 really end up looking better on PS3?

I'm not into NBA, so I haven't even played the game. IGN gave the PS3 version a slightly better score, despite the cloth physics and such I imagine at its core it's still basically a near identical game overall.

With regard to graphics they IGN stated: "Some visuals, like stadiums and character models have been improved. Some players still look hideous though."
 

MikeB

Banned
MikeB said:
Yes, it's real. ;-)

I think a more interesting question may be, why do we want AA in games?

In my view the short answer would be to reduce jaggies and maybe giving the image a little softer general appearence.

But jaggies can be reduced with higher resolution assets and rendering resolution, also fewer jaggies and a softer appearance can be achieved by handpicking your colors wisely (or use lighting techniques), so there's less contrast visible between neighbouring colors.

Here's an interesting Beyond3D thread concerning AA, speculating on AA in Killzone 2, AA methods and such:

Using the SPU's to do AA

Although they come to no conclusions, some comments are worth reading. I expect GG to go into full detail once their game is completed.
 

MikeB

Banned
MikeB said:
Are you serious?

Sure it's warranted to have very high expectations for the long run, but really games like Uncharted: Drake's Fortune and Ratchet and Clank: Tools of Destruction are technologically way beyond what the PS2 and Wii have to offer or ever will. They are some of the most impressive games out for any platform.

Sure, there's are problems porting 360/DirectX games to the PS3, but IMO that's nothing new as developers often ran into issues porting Windows DirectX games to other platforms like Macintosh, Linux and Amiga, it could be said Microsoft doesn't really want to ease cross platform development.

But the currently best sold and most impressive multiplatform games Call of Duty 4 and Assassin's Creed are as good as identical for both platforms.

There are game engines under development for the PS3 which have been built up from scratch for the system and such games are set to be released this year (for example LittleBigPlanet & The White Engine). Legacy game engines have advanced as well, the Resistance 2 engine now seems to have adapted into a fully PS3 orientated game engine.

Although I believe the PS3 will not be maxed out for many years to come, 2008 will be the year to judge the PS3 from a technical perspective and the results won't be kind towards rivals. With the Amiga gamers had to wait much longer until the distinguishing factors really began to show well enough and its features were well utilized enough. Sony does a much better job than Commodore did!

Great progress leaps usually involve radically new approaches, like the multi-tasking, stereo sound, 4096 color Amiga was a totally different approach compared to the common monochrome, single-tasking, beeping MSDOS PCs in use at the time.

A good read from Insomniac:

Brian Hastings, Chief Creative Officer at Insomniac Games, said, "The PS3's eight parallel CPUs (one primary "PPU" and seven Cell processors) give it potentially far more computing power than the three parallel CPUs in the Xbox 360. Just about any tech programmer will tell you that the PS3's CPUs are significantly more powerful...Games developed from the ground up on PS3 are the ones that will really show off the PS3's CPU advantage. The complexity of the distributed processing architecture means that PS3 engines won't fully blossom until a little later in the lifecycle than the PS2. This has put the PS3 at a disadvantage early in its lifecycle, but within two years you will see games that surpass what is possible on the Xbox 360."

10 Reasons Why PS3 Will Win This Console Generation

Some people don't seem to understand, but building up game engines from scratch for the PS3 requires more time than re-using legacy engines.
 

MikeB

Banned
Ubisoft Montreal tech director, Dominic Guay:

"The R&D revealed some pleasant surprises, as Guay explained: "One thing that we realized pretty quickly as we started R&D on PS3, was that the hardware architecture had a very nice fit with some of our technical design decisions. We were positively surprised by how efficient the SPUs (the Cell processing units) were to do such things as run our vegetation simulation, our animations or our physics systems."

Guay also expressed how impressed he has been with Blu-ray and the PS3's hard drive, noting: "The hard drive and Blu-ray are making our life easy considering FC2 is an open world continuously streamed around the player. That streaming bandwidth and disk space is very appreciated." "

Fary Cry 2 dev pleased by PS3 SPU efficiency
 

Sol..

I am Wayne Brady.
Orlics said:
Just out of curiosity, did NBA 2k7 really end up looking better on PS3?

No it didn't, but it was one of the first few ports that that wasn't super gimped on the PS3.




further cementing it's status as the greatest sports game ever made.
 

MikeB

Banned
Sol.. said:
No it didn't, but it was one of the first few ports that that wasn't super gimped on the PS3.


further cementing it's status as the greatest sports game ever made.

According to reviews, slightly improved visuals, controls and AI. Better image quality on a 1080p HDTV, so it seems it wasn't a "gimped" port at all. But most issues as with the 360 version remained.
 

MikeB

Banned
Regarding EA (Army of Two):

"He stressed though that the game “looks great on both of them.”

The only difference between the two versions is that the PS3 version fo Army of Two will support tilt sensing according to reports.

Turner stated in an interview with Videogamer.com that “It’s been led on Xbox 360 and we put it on the PS3. It’s because we have more experience in that medium. The PS3 is fairly new with a lot of development stuff. But as far as th egameplay goes on both consoles it’s the same. There’s no difference.”

http://www.dbtechno.com/gaming/2008/02/12/xbox-360-is-lead-platform-for-eas-army-of-two/

More statements like this incoming?

EA: "The whole industry knows it's been a challenge; the PS3's a very complex piece of equipment. On one hand it's a challenge, on the other hand there's tremendous potential in that box. I think it's going to take developers a little while to figure out how to unlock that power.

We've got games coming out now where we feel we've hit maybe 20 per cent of the potential of PlayStation 3. We know the power's there, but like any new platform it's going to take us a little bit of time to unleash it.

Was it more complex than we were expecting? Yes, probably; there were some challenges that we didn't expect. We've got tremendous confidence long-term that it's going to be a phenomenal games machine."

IMO to refer to this as locked power is bit misleading, the SPE performance (and RSX/Cell communication, system bandwidth, Blu-Ray/HDD storage space, etc) is all up for up for grabs. It's just about how much PS3 specific enahncements you adapt your legacy game engine with.
 

TTP

Have a fun! Enjoy!
MikeB said:
Turner stated in an interview with Videogamer.com that “It’s been led on Xbox 360 and we put it on the PS3. It’s because we have more experience in that medium. The PS3 is fairly new with a lot of development stuff. But as far as the **gameplay** goes on both consoles it’s the same. There’s no difference.”

That doesn't sound good... :/
 

chubigans

y'all should be ashamed
Hey, got an email from Andy O'Neil, prez of BluePoint Games and maker of the Blast Factor titles. Might want to add this to the OP:

Just for the record, on Blast Factor we use the SPUs for:

Particles - processed on the SPUs. Some of the stuff we use on the particles (turbulence etc, check out the trail on the ship) uses a lot of CPU time.
Background heightfield water - Processed on the SPUs.
Sound - MP3 decompression and mixing on the SPUs via FMOD.

Hope this is useful. Those SPUs aren't a gimmick BTW, very fast.

Cheers,
Andy

Neat eh? :D
 
Never understood why folks think that just because a game uses 3 SPUs, but runs at 90% of the systems potential that somehow by using an extra 1-2 SPU's is going to make it MIND BLOWINGLY BETTER.

Folks, right now, it's not about that. It'd be one thing if Game X was using 2-3 SPU's, but only using them 50% efficiently. THEN you'd see drastic improvements by simply using more SPUs. Right now, where we're going to see PS3 improvements is how efficiently each SPU is being used & not how many is being used. And this doesn't even begin to take in memory usage improvements as well.

Think I'm crazy?

God of War 2 says HI THERE, doubting thomas'!
 
DiatribeEQ said:
Never understood why folks think that just because a game uses 3 SPUs, but runs at 90% of the systems potential that somehow by using an extra 1-2 SPU's is going to make it MIND BLOWINGLY BETTER.

Folks, right now, it's not about that. It'd be one thing if Game X was using 2-3 SPU's, but only using them 50% efficiently. THEN you'd see drastic improvements by simply using more SPUs. Right now, where we're going to see PS3 improvements is how efficiently each SPU is being used & not how many is being used. And this doesn't even begin to take in memory usage improvements as well.

Think I'm crazy?

God of War 2 says HI THERE, doubting thomas'!

Parallelism is important to computer programming and there is far more than 2-3 SPU's worth of parallelism inside a Video Game.

You should consider the American saying that "9 pregnant women cannot make a baby in one month". There is a corollary to this wisdom however, which is that 9 pregnant women CAN still make 9 babies in 9 months. Parallelism can provide dramatic benefits for someone who knows where and how to split up the workload.
 
TTP said:
That doesn't sound good... :/

At least he's being honest. I think that's what most developers mean when they say "it's the same", except he's really really saying it like it is. The gameplay is going to be the same, the graphics and performance however probably won't be.
 

chris0701

Member
Sol.. said:
No it didn't, but it was one of the first few ports that that wasn't super gimped on the PS3.

further cementing it's status as the greatest sports game ever made.

Gimped version of NBA 2K6,visually. Both version.
 

MikeB

Banned
chubigans said:
Hey, got an email from Andy O'Neil, prez of BluePoint Games and maker of the Blast Factor titles. Might want to add this to the OP:

Just for the record, on Blast Factor we use the SPUs for:

Particles - processed on the SPUs. Some of the stuff we use on the particles (turbulence etc, check out the trail on the ship) uses a lot of CPU time.
Background heightfield water - Processed on the SPUs.
Sound - MP3 decompression and mixing on the SPUs via FMOD.

Hope this is useful. Those SPUs aren't a gimmick BTW, very fast.

Cheers,
Andy


Neat eh? :D

Thanks for sharing! IMO a nice FullHD game. Still waiting for the European Advanced Research update...
 

Z3F

Banned
NBA2k7 was worse on the PS3. I had extensive experiences with both. The sole advantage of the PS3 version was that it could run at 1080P. But at 1080P, there was a lot of slowdown. At 720p, the PS3 version had more slowdown and jaggies than the 360 version.
 

MikeB

Banned
Hopefully somebody will be able to interview these guys in the near future.

PSU: New Wardevil Screenshots and details
Posted on February 14th, 2008 at 00:21 EDT

Only a week after our first Wardevil Update, the Digi-Guys have released new images showing off the further changes to Wardevil Project, as well as providing us with some new information.

According to the Digi-Guys, these shots are just a taste of what is to come. Keep in mind that they are currently working on not only a game, but a Blu-ray CGI film as well that coincides with Wardevil's storyline.

For a quick overview about Wardevil and its storyline, check out our preview here, or our last week's update here.

Here are the latest details about Wardevil:

- They are not finished with the game yet, still adding improvements both gameplay wise and graphically.

- They are making good use of the SPU's and streaming off of the Blu-ray disc

- Their goal is to get the Blu-ray film & game to look as identical as possible... so there is no transition between game/cinematic

- They will not be at GDC this year, however expect to see new updates to their website around the same time. "

They have some cool images posted there as well.

Would love to know more about their game engine.
 

carlosp

Banned
belvedere said:
Some info on The Show would be cool. That's definitely the best looking Baseball game ever.

yes it is indeed. Did you see their cloths? I mean those textures are so fucking highres. Seems like the smaller ram of ps3 is really not a problem if you can have textures like that. We are still in the first year of ps3 (at least here in europe) and we already get stuff which has not been seen before, on any format, at anytime.
 

MikeB

Banned
Nostromo said:
I will be there..:D

Any interesting revelations or details? We are of course dying to get more technical details on Resistance 2, but probably we shouldn't expect a full technical rundown untill well after release.

I also heard Naughty Dog did a more in depth run down of the technology behind Uncharted at GDC, talking more about streaming and SPU usage. But I have found no direct quotes.
 

MikeB

Banned
@ Nostromo

I didn't realize your nick is to be associated with a games developer with in depth lowlevel knowledge and understanding on the things discussed within this thread. :)

In the c64 and Amiga glory years, (also due to demoscene coding) many coders possessed great in depth knowledge of the underlying hardware, sadly many devs nowadays due to DirectX and heavy usage of 3rd party middleware and tools (and of course also due to more complex hardware architectures) seem to have lost touch with how systems really operate and thus know far less about system potential, it would be great to read more about your perspectives.

I read some of your past NeoGAF comments relevant to discussions within this thread:

On cross platform development:

Using PS3 as a 'lead platform' is the right thing to do if you are going to make a game that has to run on 360 and PS3. The reason is very simple: on PS3 designing your data structure in the proper way is paramount to achieve decent performance (and to scale up..), while your PS3 friendly data will be also 360 friendly data in the vast majority of cases.
This is a big win cause you will definitely be able to get the most from BOTH platforms.

On 360 DVD drive vs PS3 Blu-Ray drive:

Too bad PS3's bluray drive has faster transfer rates (on average) than 360's dvd drive.
PS3 is less noisy simply cause it's a better engineered piece of awesomeness.

On Cell potential in response being to Cell coding requires more work:

Correct, but it also what keeps CELL one of few processors around being able the vey close to its theoretical limits when properly programmed. It makes perfect sense in a closed enviroment such as a videogames development. I wouldn't put in in the hands of your everyday programmer (and it seems in the ands of a lot of games programmers as well, but that's another story ;) )

Related to this potential:

CELL has PLENTY of power to spare for graphics and everything else you wanna do.

Your comments within the Crysis thread are also interesting, where you suggest PS3 games will soon be on par graphically with this showpiece title the bulk of PCs are unable to run well enough.

I would love you to comment more on this, IMO obviously the PS3 has advantages (technically mostly related to the Cell and bandwidth, optimisation for a uniform configuration) over PC setups as well as a few relative shortcomings (smaller non upgradeable system RAM mainly).
 

MikeB

Banned
Nice to finally see Sony make a statement on cross platform development as well, it backs up the comments from various developers quoted within this thread.

"Third party publishers and developers are moving away from using Xbox 360 as their primary development platform. They understand that developing on PlayStation 3 first makes more sense and, in fact, will make the Xbox 360 version look better."

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=183147
 

MikeB

Banned
MikeB said:
Regarding DiRT on the PS3, mostly audio related:

"The PS3 is so fast - tens of GigaFLOPs on each of seven CPUs available to us - that high-order Ambisonics suits it very well. Most of the optimisation effort went into the trigonometry needed to go from game-style orthogonal vectors and matrices to the azimuth and elevation model now standard for Ambisonics. After that, the encoder and decoder are very fast, especially as they parallelise well, without pipeline bottlenecks like division and tight operand dependencies.

Overall Ambisonics complements other aspects of nextGen PS3 game audio, like good quality sample-rate-conversion - rather than the noisy LERPs still sadly common on PCs - plus modern psychoacoustically-modelled decompression, and phase-coherent 512 band filtering on each voice. There’s so much CPU power on PS3 that all this, and multiple reverbs, can run on a single SPU (Synergistic Processing Element, an eighth of the PS3’s Cell processor array) with time to spare.

There are six independent reverb units running in the PS3 version, versus two stereo ones on Xbox360. These are not just for reflections in tunnels or when you get close to trackside objects - they works beautifully for reflections from other vehicles too, and give exciting effects when the car goes out of control - the sort of emergent behaviour you look forward to getting when you combine several advanced systems in one game!"

"The HDMI 7.1 on PS3 already allows us to have six speakers in a regular hexagon, ideal for Ambisonics, without breaking the Blumlein stereo panning rules or Dolby cinema guidelines (so the front centre and sub are available for audio conceptually outside the soundfield, like co-driver calls, checkpoint notifications and front-end sounds)."

"Your best bet for the time being is to find a well-configured PS3 with HDMI in 7.1 on matched speakers, and hear the game respond to you directly. It’s a lot of fun, especially if you’re a good listener."

Source: Ambisonia.com

Sounds like Codemaster's Overlord will see improved audio as well:

Codemasters has said it will be offering Overlord on PS3 this summer.

Inside will be the new Raising Hell single-player expansion as well as all of the additional content to date.

The PS3 version is said to be "enhanced with detailed visuals" and have 7.1 surround sound support, on top of some gameplay fiddles like a fancy on-screen mini-map.

http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=93462

Hope this becomes the norm for cross platform games on the PS3!
 

Apenheul

Member
MikeB, since you've mentioned the demoscene, have you perhaps been active in the demoscene? There are a lot of religuous Amiga folks there :)
 

MikeB

Banned
Apenheul said:
MikeB, since you've mentioned the demoscene, have you perhaps been active in the demoscene? There are a lot of religuous Amiga folks there :)

I know some people who are/were demoscene coders and some others which manage some leading demonscene related websites, I have been to various events myself, some very competent people! I wrote some articles on the demonscene in the past around the time when some MatureFurk/FutureMark coders (best known for their game Max Payne) won Assembly 2001 with their Lapsuus demo using the Amiga AGA chipset (AGA is an audio/graphics chipset which came on the market in 1992). RJ Mical (original Amiga team) handed them their trophy at this world's biggest demonscene event, which was a good basis for writing a story!

Coding can be considered a form of art. :)
 

Apenheul

Member
MikeB said:
Coding can be considered a form of art. :)

Fully agreed there. Having a demoscene history (long time ago though) it still baffles me how important that has been to my career. How wonderful, and yet odd, to see someone rolling into that scene from a totally different perspective. Wait, let me quote that again!

MikeB said:
Coding can be considered a form of art. :)
 

MikeB

Banned
Some comments from Epic's Tim Sweeney, he almost makes it sound Insomniac and Naughty Dog coders are supernatural beings :lol :

"What we’ve found in this generation—and here are some scary numbers—is that writing an engine system designed for multicores, that can scale to multiple threads efficiently, takes about double the efforts as single threaded. It takes double the design effort, implementation effort, lifetime support effort, debugging…all the costs metrics multiplied by a factor of two for multicores. That’s pretty expensive, but ends up being bearable.

Whereas, some of the other hardware trends are even worse than that, like programming for Cell, we found, had a [five-times] productivity divisor. It’s five times harder and that really starts to hit…you have to question whether it’s economically viable for mainstream developers to put real effort into it at that point. And then GPUs are trying to take a non-graphics algorithm and run it on the graphics processor currently. Given the limitations of those languages, we found that the multiplier there is 10x or more, which is well out of the realm of economic viability."

http://ve3d.ign.com/articles/news/37114/Tim-Sweeney-Talks-Xbox-360

Although I predicted back in 2005 some devs will experience a learning curve regarding multi-threaded game design and redesigning their legacy game engines for the Cell (multi-threaded or worse single-threaded engines), but IMO Tim is wildly exaggerating here (maybe because of being interviewed by a XBox website or something...). Of course, for example 3 competent game engine coders will often be able to yield greater results than dozens of incompetent ones. Note that game development teams in the most part don't consist of coders, but art, audio, game design make up the bulk of the effort.

Coding a game engine from scratch for the Cell takes some more time and effort (planning) than designing a new engine from scratch for single core PCs, but can make the work a lot easier for other developers part of the team in creating the best visuals, audio and games design freedom. The PS2 is absolutely more difficult to code for! In any case the state of the UT3 engine for the PS3 is now at an acceptable level, this with the help of Sony "super coders", so the engine will not suddenly get worse only there's extra potential possible to be tapped if they choose to invest into the platform. Mark Rein already admitted that PS3's UT3 graphics are better and the game runs better on PS3 than Gears did on 360 and 'We've surpassed what Halo 3 offered', UT3 provides bigger environments than Gears did on the 360 as well, so IMO there's no need to spread fear for the Cell like Tim does here. These early results are sufficient enough for multi-platform games.

Maybe we shouldn't expect their engine to advance much further (just stay in-line with PC/360 implementations), although Rein suggested otherwise in the past when talking about the potential of 1080p UT3-like games.
 

MikeB

Banned
Added the following comments with regard to Getaway 3 to the original post:

"As I mentioned previously, there are wider possibilities to use that processing power and tell a story during the game play. We can stream a wider variety of dialogue and animations to progress the story and characterisation rather than breaking the flow of the game play for a cutscene. If games are about immersion, then we are now about to deepen that immersion."

Source: Den of Geek website
 

MikeB

Banned
MikeB said:
Some comments from Epic's Tim Sweeney, he almost makes it sound Insomniac and Naughty Dog coders are supernatural beings :lol :

For contrasting new GDC presentation sheets are available with regard to the development of Resistance 2:

Some quotes:

"Isn't it harder to program for the SPUs?
No."

"But isn't programming for the SPUs different?
The SPU is not a magical beast only tamed by wizards.
It's just a CPU
Get your feet wet. Code something.
Highly Recommend Linux on the PS3!"

Conclusions

* It's not that complicated.
* Good data and good design works well on the SPUs (and will work well anywhere)‏
-Sometimes you can get away with bad design and bad data on other platforms
-...for now. Bad design will not survive this generation.
*Lots of opportunities for optimization.

Worth a read, lots of interesting stuff (added to the OP):
GDC 2008 - Insomniac SPU Programming Powerpoint
 

MikeB

Banned
MikeB said:
For contrasting new GDC presentation sheets are available with regard to the development of Resistance 2:

Some quotes:

"Isn't it harder to program for the SPUs?
No."

"But isn't programming for the SPUs different?
The SPU is not a magical beast only tamed by wizards.
It's just a CPU
Get your feet wet. Code something.
Highly Recommend Linux on the PS3!"



Worth a read, lots of interesting stuff (added to the OP):
GDC 2008 - Insomniac SPU Programming Powerpoint

A PC/360 developer responded to this presentation (developer for the PC/360 game Prey):

"Sure you can just about get away with bad code now on the 360"

"Regardless of managed memory or cached memory, the concepts and methods Mike has presented is highly portable. In the case of cached memory, that method results in optimized cache locality and cache utilization (something extremely important when multiple threads are sharing L1 on a single core, and multiple cores are sharing L2), and a predictable way to optimally prefetch. Good data locality, minimal sync points, branch elimination, and vectorization are all required to be able to extract great performance out of the 360 as well."

http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=47057
 
Hey MikeB, sorry for the OT but do you know where I can get some info about the cores of the Xenon processor?

Someone told me that it uses only one of it´s three cores until now... :lol

I know this is not true but I don´t know where I got the info...
 

MikeB

Banned
Insane Metal said:
Hey MikeB, sorry for the OT but do you know where I can get some info about the cores of the Xenon processor?

Someone told me that it uses only one of it´s three cores until now... :lol

I know this is not true but I don´t know where I got the info...

We know Gears of War used all 3 cores (thus likely any game based on this engine, like Mass Effect), but it has been confirmed in this thread some 360 launch titles also already tapped all three cores. Most notably Kameo, my favourite 360 game I played on the 360:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9505657&postcount=522
 

Calen

Member
Apenheul said:
Fully agreed there. Having a demoscene history (long time ago though) it still baffles me how important that has been to my career. How wonderful, and yet odd, to see someone rolling into that scene from a totally different perspective. Wait, let me quote that again!
Totally! The C64 and, later, Amiga demo scenes were big inspirations to me. I was never part of a group or anything but I spent huge amounts of time figuring out how to replicate the effects and such. I can't even begin to guess the impact that had on my choice of career :)
 

wolforce

Member
Mike you can add this post of Mike Acton in the info for Resistance 2 and partially also for RCF.

Originally Posted by wolforce:
Thanks, but what means this: "SPU Shaders / ° Also experimenting with pre-vertex shaders on the SPUs."

Post of Mike Acton:

It means (in some cases) we've added a stage to the typical shader pipeline.

Instead of:
(Vertex Stream) -> (GPU Vertex Shader) -> (GPU Fragment Shader)

We can also do:
(Vertex Stream) -> (SPU Vertex Shader) -> (GPU Vertex Shader) -> (GPU Fragment Shader)

So that some things that might normally be done in the GPU vertex shader can be "lifted" to the SPUs. Some of the benefits to doing this:

1. Transfer some of the load from the GPU to the SPUs.

2. Minimize complexity of the GPU Shaders. i.e. Rather than making more GPU vertex shaders, or more complex GPU vertex shaders, we'll just edit the data directly from the SPU before the GPU gets it. This allows us to "disguise" complex vertex shader code as a simple shader from the GPU's perspective.

3. Run parts of the complete vertex shader code at different rates. An (SPU Vertex Shader, or Pre-Vertex Shader) does not necessarily have to run in lock-stop with the (GPU Vertex Shader). It could run at half-rate or lower, depending on the data and the need.

We're still experimenting with different approaches and places to do this, but we've had good success so far. For example, we used this idea in RCF to handle UV animations - textures weren't animated on the GPU, the UVs were animated before the stream got to the (GPU Vertex Shader) so it could use the same GPU shaders as any stream that did not have UV animation.

Mike.


"This allows us to "disguise" complex vertex shader code as a simple shader from the GPU's perspective."
 

TAFKAA

Banned
3rdman said:
I jumped into this thread only to laugh...thanks! Great way to start the week!
whine.jpg
 

MikeB

Banned
Another statement from Sony regarding cross platform developement from Next-gen.biz:

“Third parties have started to move from the de facto 360 SDK. Of course people designed their next-gen games on it because that was the only one there. The PS3 shipped and so they said, ‘let’s port our 360 games to the PS3.' But now companies are recognizing that ‘hey, if I start on the PS3 and then port down to the 360, my 360 game is going to look better than if I had just designed it for the 360.' So the pendulum is swinging. The heads of development thinking ‘what’s going to show off my next-gen game that much better?’ It is to lead with the PS3 and then to port to the 360.”
 
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