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Interview with Metanet (N+): save game 'bug', their next title, 14-4 & more discussed

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As promised, here's the separate thread to the interview I was referring to back in the official N+ thread. It consists of approximately 40 questions so I had to split it up in two articles (part 1 and part 2) to keep its length relatively reasonable, but I'll post a few snippets from the interview followed by a brief summary of sorts detailing a couple of the more noteworthy subjects that I've asked Metanet about. The actual interview is in entirely in English, so it shouldn't be a problem ignoring the small quantities of Dutch text. Anyway, here are some cliff notes:

● Opinion about XBLA size limit and how the service could (eventually) be improved.
● Patch in development? What about the save game 'bug'?
● Will netcode be fixed too?
● Why a limit on the custom level names?
● DLC other than new levels? New level editor toys, new soundtracks, ... a possibility?
● (Another) update on N+'s level sharing functionality.
● Estimated sales?
● Who was responsible for 14-4?!
● Is N+ the last we'll see of the franchise for a while?
● What is Robotology?

Finally, some quotes:

Metanet said:
Robotology is going to be a 2D physics-based platformer, but the physics will be much more involved (with grappling hooks and articulated/simulated robots walking around), and the graphics will be more complex.

We’re still trying to use a minimal vector-art style, however thanks to OpenGL we’ll be able to do more in terms of animation and smoothness. In general we really like simple, focused games – plus, being only two people, simplicity is an important practical consideration!

Development of Robotology is really just beginning though, so we don’t have anything to look at right now. However, we’ve got a dev blog up at http://www.metanetsoftware.com/blog where we’ve been posting progress, and will continue to do so – check back for updates in a month or so!
Click to expand...
Metanet said:
XP: It’s been mentioned numerous times by now that Microsoft have essentially stopped you from including level sharing in N+. Have you already reached an agreement, or are you still struggling to get their approval?

MNS: It’s not a case of negotiation – once they have the operational and legal infrastructure in place to manage user-created content, we will be allowed to enable sharing. Hopefully this will happen soon, however they haven’t announced any sort of deadlines or plans beyond that it was something they are working on.
Click to expand...
I hope you enjoy it.
 
I'm not impressed by their attitude towards their shoddy netcode... at all.

Oh, and good interview on the whole. Thanks!

[Edit - In fact, their stance on new code / updates and their game budget bites. I wont be supporting their games in future.]
 
i've never heard the "save" rule thing before

their answer to the netcode is amazing, total disregard for customers that bought the game after they called every game on xbla shit
 
XP: Also, how do you think Microsoft should change Xbox Live Arcade as a whole, regardless of the games currently appearing on the service? Especially due to the relatively low sales of many titles. Maybe something about its marketing or how you can access it?

MNS: We don’t think that as a system XBLA needs to be changed much.
Click to expand...

wat? After ranting like lunatics last week, this week they think it's all fine?
 
Really good interview, thanks. What kind of excuses were that for their netcode though, christ. Is it really that bad generally (haven't played N+ yet)? Why did they implement it in the first place then?
 
sneaky77 said:
i've never heard the "save" rule thing before

their answer to the netcode is amazing, total disregard for customers that bought the game after they called every game on xbla shit
Click to expand...

Exactly, they have no problem ripping into other XBLA games but when it comes down to it they should fix the shit that is wrong with theirs (the netcode and that damned save game bug). Anyways on a side note I just got into the top 5 on one section :D
 
Darunia said:
Really good interview, thanks. What kind of excuses were that for their netcode though, christ. Is it really that bad generally (haven't played N+ yet)? Why did they implement it in the first place then?
Click to expand...

but they only have silver is not their problem
 
Psychotext said:
[Edit - In fact, their stance on new code / updates and their game budget bites. I wont be supporting their games in future.]
Click to expand...
I wasn't too happy with their answer either, but to be fair: Metanet currently only consists out of two people. I doubt they could've adjusted the code within a reasonable timespan without jeopardizing the development of their next game (unless they asked Slick to take care of that as well).

Hopefully they'll get it right next time.

besada said:
wat? After ranting like lunatics last week, this week they think it's all fine?
Click to expand...
I've asked them not to talk about the quality of the games currently on the service since they already did that elsewhere, if that's what you meant.
 
:O @ 3 upcoming DLC packs!

That really sucks about the netcode thing, though.

Good interview -- thanks for asking 'em these specific questions.
 
MicVlaD said:
I wasn't too happy with their answer either, but to be fair: Metanet currently only consists out of two people. I doubt they could've adjusted the code within a reasonable timespan without jeopardizing the development of their next game (unless they asked Slick to take care of that as well).

-----------

I've asked them not to talk about the quality of the games currently on the service since they already did that elsewhere, if that's what you meant.
Click to expand...
It's my assumption that they would have gone back to their 360 developers (slick) and got them to sort it... I don't see what effect that really would have had on them.

As for the XBLA comment. When they went on their rant they didn't just criticise the games, they ripped the way the entire service is handled to bits.
 
XP: How about improving the netcode of N+? I was kind of looking forward to the online multiplayer (especially co-op), but even as a host I had lag while playing with people living in the same country as me. This struck me as something odd in a game with a rather minimal presentation.

MNS: The networking code will quite likely not be rewritten, simply because it would take the better part of a year (most of the develpoment time for the game was spent with networking). Since it’s a single-screen game, it’s perfect for 4 players on the same machine – something we find a lot more fun that networked multiplayer. Plus, we only have a silver account ;)

XP: So in other words: loners that have no acquaintances in their neighbourhood have to find some new friends then if they’re bothered by the lag? And is the netcode something you’ll definitely improve upon with a future project?

MNS: Heh. Yep, find more neighborhood friends, everyone!

We at Metanet have no experience whatsoever in writing multiplayer code, and all we hear is that it’s terrifyingly difficult!
Click to expand...
what the fuck
 
...simply because it would take the better part of a year (most of the develpoment time for the game was spent with networking)
Click to expand...
We at Metanet have no experience whatsoever in writing multiplayer code, and all we hear is that it’s terrifyingly difficult!
Click to expand...
When I see that I can't help thinking that someone charged them an awful lot of money for a very shoddy job on the netcode. Give me the better part of a year to work on something like that and I'd have it purring like a cat full of the finest cow juice money could buy. :lol
 
MicVlaD said:
I've asked them not to talk about the quality of the games currently on the service since they already did that elsewhere, if that's what you meant.
Click to expand...

Yeah, but there's a big difference between not talking about specific games and turning on a dime to say that there are no problems with the XBLA system after they've pointed out about a dozen different problems in quite strong language.

Just surprised.

Good interview, by the way.
 
M3wThr33 said:
These guys sound like total putzes when it comes to being slaves to the terms of XBLA.
Click to expand...

Yeah, because the avid PSN game-buying community was a suitably more viable option. *rolleyes.gif*

Plus, they sold at least, 80k when their goal was 50k. It's a success and pretty much everyone is happy.

XP: Do you think the current limit is little too low right now and that Microsoft should increase it to somewhere around 500 MB, so that there’s a lot more room for flexibility over a much longer timespan? Potentially having to cut certain features or compressing their textures / sound files moreso than they originally planned, wouldn’t be that big of a concern anymore for developers then.

MNS: We don’t have a problem with the current limit. We’re staunch believers in the idea that sometimes limits encourage creativity, and moreover, since the size limit really only affects graphics and sound, rather than any innovation in gameplay, ideas and code, we think developers still have plenty of opportunity to create amazing games, with the limit as is.
Click to expand...

I honestly believe that was the most important thing said in that entire interview. And should be a huge awakening to those devs/people that really want a gigantic increase in size. For all of our bitching...we sure love to focus on graphics/sound a lot, never really focusing on the gameplay.
 
Vast Inspiration said:
Yeah, because the avid PSN game-buying community was a suitably more viable option. *rolleyes.gif*

Plus, they sold at least, 80k when their goal was 50k. It's a success and pretty much everyone is happy.



I honestly believe that was the most important thing said in that entire interview. And should be a huge awakening to those devs/people that really want a gigantic increase in size. For all of our bitching...we sure love to focus on graphics/sound a lot, never really focusing on the gameplay.
Click to expand...

I don't care about that, but they sure did a LOT of backpedaling in this interview.
 
Vast Inspiration said:
Back Peddling? You sure you're not angry that this interview isn't just them shitting on XBLA the entire time?
Click to expand...
Didn't they shit on it before?
It just seems weird to have them change their tune.
 
Vast Inspiration said:
I honestly believe that was the most important thing said in that entire interview. And should be a huge awakening to those devs/people that really want a gigantic increase in size. For all of our bitching...we sure love to focus on graphics/sound a lot, never really focusing on the gameplay.
Click to expand...

So every game should be minimalistic on XBLA?

Wouldn't you want, you know, variety?
 
Bebpo said:
So every game should be minimalistic on XBLA?

Wouldn't you want, you know, variety?
Click to expand...

Judging by what he said, he obviously doesn't want variety. He not only wants every game to be minimalist, but he believes every game should be N+. And that developers should only remake N+ over and over. That's what I gathered from his quote, because I'm fucking stupid and a bit insane.
 
This is why we can't have nice things. Somebody speaks openly and they are crucified for the blunt truth. Were they only to have a soothsayer's tongue, the anger would only be disappointment. The moral, of course, is that developers should be very wary of what they say. PR bullshit is a must.

sneaky77 said:
i've never heard the "save" rule thing before
Click to expand...
I've heard that Sony and Microsoft both have certain limits on hard drive use as they are scared as hell that one day somebody's going to have a bug that corrupts them.

A limit on writing frequency to permanent sections of the hard drive seems plausible from that perspective.

sneaky77 said:
their answer to the netcode is amazing, total disregard for customers that bought the game after they called every game on xbla shit
Click to expand...
It would not surprise me in the slightest to hear that the majority of the work that went into N+ was on the net code. After all, the vast majority of the rest of the difficult work was done for N.

The argument that to write that code from scratch would basically be creating N+ again and would probably take so long that nobody would benefit from it seems reasonable enough to me.

Look at what else they say. That they have months worth of post-release support on more valuable things. They probably shouldn't have included online play in the first place. Kept it local-only multiplayer and invested that time and money in other parts of the game. A lack of good online play is certainly not the reason why I do not own N+. Or, even better, have skipped on creating online play and put it up for 400 points.


M3wThr33 said:
Didn't they shit on it before?
It just seems weird to have them change their tune.
Click to expand...
Not weird at all. Did you read the community response to their comments?




XP said:
Could you disclose how many times N+ has been sold since its release on XBLA?
Click to expand...
MNS said:
We generally go by the number of people who have a record on the leaderboards,
Click to expand...
What the fuck is wrong with Xbox Live if the developers are looking at the size of the leaderboards to figure out how many people bought their game?
 
Slavik81 said:
What the fuck is wrong with Xbox Live if the developers are looking at the size of the leaderboards to figure out how many people bought their game?
Click to expand...
Last I heard, they get their money paid periodically... so they probably find out when they get their first payment. It is a little strange though.
 
Thank you. I found the Metanet blog interesting too :

Allowing developers the opportunity to be successful with less-than-average sales was one of the most revolutionary aspects of XBLA — perhaps the most revolutionary aspect — certainly the one that created the most opportunity for indie/small developers. Unfortunately not everyone may have realized this, and thus failed to take advantage of such a unique and unprecedented state of affairs.
Click to expand...
 
I'll buy N+ once level sharing is there... I saw a video of Legend of Zelda recreated in N+ and my reaction was ":O"
 
Great interview MicVlad - their own attitude in regards to fixing their own game while they trashed every other game is the only sour thing about it - surprisingly they've reversed quite a bit of their previous comments...

Slavik81 said:
What the fuck is wrong with Xbox Live if the developers are looking at the size of the leaderboards to figure out how many people bought their game?
Click to expand...

Now that you're done with your net rage, it's pretty damn obvious that XBL keeps to the digit records of anything bought, downloaded and played, seeing as MS as well as many thrid parties issue press releases with these kind of figures - you must have read at least one if you were that interested to post that in here...

You should ask them the reason why they're relying on leaderboards for figures...
 
Slavik81 said:
I've heard that Sony and Microsoft both have certain limits on hard drive use as they are scared as hell that one day somebody's going to have a bug that corrupts them.
Click to expand...

there are games that allow u to save anytime u want though
 
I'm not sure why anyone's complaining about their response to the save game bug thing. They say pretty clearly in the interview that the way it's handled is crappy and that they put in a request to Microsoft for a waiver to the XBLA rules in order to fix the problem. I'm... not sure what else they're supposed to do there. :lol

Still sad that people are so full of OMG RIGHTEOUS FURY about that stupid interview. Mare and Raigan are hell of great people and they had a pretty awesome panel at PAX this year. Until that interview I kind of thought everyone agreed that XBLA was (a) a great idea that (b) was wicked screwed up by the scheduling approach that fills space with shit no one wants at the expense of real innovative and/or indie titles, and as a result (c) was in danger of being surpassed by both PSN and WiiWare if MS didn't get their act together....?
 
14-4 is such an incredible level. That took me hours of mastery to beat. I got the 1000 deaths achievement almost entirely from that level.
 
Slavik81 said:
What the fuck is wrong with Xbox Live if the developers are looking at the size of the leaderboards to figure out how many people bought their game?
Click to expand...

Wasn't there an interview with a XBLA developer and they said if you ask Microsoft they send you the complete break down?
 
SupahBlah said:
Wasn't there an interview with a XBLA developer and they said if you ask Microsoft they send you the complete break down?
Click to expand...
Mario from Sidhe Entertainment also said in one of the Gripshift threads that they have to ask Microsoft if they want to know how much their game has sold exactly.
 
MicVlaD said:
Mario from Sidhe Entertainment also said in one of the Gripshift threads that they have to ask Microsoft if they want to know how much their game has sold exactly.
Click to expand...

I dont find that all that complicated
 
Psychotext said:
My annoyance towards their attitude is based on this interview alone.
Click to expand...

I just don't think there's really anything they can do about the netcode thing. Their partnership with Slick Entertainment involves them bringing two other people on board the project (maybe it was even only one, I'm not sure.) I can't imagine there would be any cost-effective way to actually go back and rewrite it.

That said, I don't actually have N+ yet; my impression from the Official Thread was that the save bug (which they've said they want to fix) is a much bigger problem than the netcode -- but I'm basing that just on second-hand info.
 
charlequin said:
That said, I don't actually have N+ yet; my impression from the Official Thread was that the save bug (which they've said they want to fix) is a much bigger problem than the netcode -- but I'm basing that just on second-hand info.
Click to expand...
The save bug had a work around. The netcode is basically unusable for most.

I don't really have a lot of sympathy about their difficulties with the netcode / slick. It was their responsibility to try and get it right from day one.
 
Meh everytime they speak i want to purchase N+ a little less.

Seem they have the everything we make is awesome everything anyone else makes is crap like they are doing something new or radical when N+ feels like a copy off of Bombjack.
 
Aika'svyse said:
Meh everytime they speak i want to purchase N+ a little less.
Click to expand...
It's a great little game, been playing it all morning trying to move up the leaderboards... but I think I'd have lived without it had I read this sort of thing first.
 
Psychotext said:
The save bug had a work around. The netcode is basically unusable for most.
Click to expand...

Really? Why was there so much more complaining about the saving in the official thread? Again, I read it like plenty of people were successfully playing online in that thread and most of the people who got upset were the ones running into saving problems.
 
charlequin said:
Really? Why was there so much more complaining about the saving in the official thread?
Click to expand...
Bound to be complaining... if you didn't know about the workaround and lost your progress after a particularly hard level. We tend to be forgiving about crappy netcode too.
 
MicVlaD said:
Mario from Sidhe Interactive also said in one of the Gripshift threads that they have to ask Microsoft if they want to know how much their game has sold exactly.
Click to expand...

Yeah, Microsoft sends out quarterly sales reports, just like every other publisher. Leaderboards are therefore a useful approximate in between reports. You can get set up to have access to the data/reports directly though.
 
charlequin said:
That said, I don't actually have N+ yet; my impression from the Official Thread was that the save bug (which they've said they want to fix) is a much bigger problem than the netcode -- but I'm basing that just on second-hand info.
Click to expand...
N+ is somewhat playable online when you play with a friend that lives close to you, but it's still annoying that your guy (and rockets) 'teleports' regularly due to the lag, especially because you have to move accurately a lot of the time. And the lag spikes are pretty random too.

The save game 'bug' however... Initially there was an uproar about it in the official thread, but I have my doubts about those that said the game deleted their progress when they allegedly left N+ properly. I've completed all 50 episodes and I never lost progress when I quit the game through 'Return to Xbox Live Arcade'. Me thinks some also expected that N+ would save their progress mid-episode.

Mario said:
Yeah, Microsoft sends out quarterly sales reports, just like every other publisher. Leaderboards are therefore a useful approximate in between reports. You can get set up to have access to the data/reports directly though.
Click to expand...
Hey, thanks for clearing that up.
 
charlequin said:
That said, I don't actually have N+ yet; my impression from the Official Thread was that the save bug (which they've said they want to fix) is a much bigger problem than the netcode -- but I'm basing that just on second-hand info.
Click to expand...


Uh - there is no save bug. Beat an episode, it saves your high score to XBL leaderboards. Quit to the main menu, it saves your progress. I figured this out the first time I "lost" progress, without looking online.

As for the netcode, it's pretty shit but I got all the multiplayer achievements and beat co-op campaign on XBL so it can't be that bad.
 
Costanza said:
what the fuck
Click to expand...
FYI: the latter question had a more humorous tone to it, so I don't think they were completely serious with their answer in that specific segment.

Not that it really matters in the end, due to the unlikeliness of the netcode being fixed. :[

Aika'svyse said:
Meh everytime they speak i want to purchase N+ a little less.
Click to expand...
It's still worth playing N+ though (despite the faults it has), especially if you're a fan of platformers.
 
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