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Open Pandora - Portable homebrew dream machine

Lafazar

Member
Since the last (and only) Neogaf thread about this little machine went over soo well, I figured it's time for a second try (this time with a less misleading title):

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Official Page: http://www.openpandora.org/index.php
Specs: http://pandorawiki.org/Pandora
FAQ: http://pandorawiki.org/FAQ

The Open Pandora is a community project by members of the GP32X forums. After years of planning, developing and testing they have now opened preorders for the finished product, a very powerful open source handheld device with keyboard and gaming controls that fits in your pocket.

Here's only the most important facts (full specs with lots of dirty details can be found at http://pandorawiki.org/Pandora)

-Currently the most powerful handheld system of this size (in terms of graphics & processing power)
-Open system: Everyone can write software for this device without any hacking
-Gaming controls (two analog nubs, dpad, 4 face buttons, 2 shoulder buttons)
-Long Battery life (8+ hours under full load, 10+ idle, ~100 when just playing mp3s)
-Small Size (slightly bigger than a Nintendo DS lite)
-800x480 touchscreen LCD

Capabilities:
-Capable of running Ubuntu Linux (so this thing could be used as an UMPC with browser, mail client and office applications)
UPDATE: Firefox 3 running smoothly (jump to 2:22): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I47F87FeLV8
-Wifi & Bluetooth
-Multimedia Playback (early version of mplayer shown here, this version does not even use the graphics accelerator chip yet!)
-PowerVR SGX OpenGL 2.0 ES for 3D graphics (impressive demo videos here, here and here)
UPDATE: Impressive 3D demo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evJ0Vr8LjYk
-Direct ports like Quake II and Quake III
-Pixelperfect Emulation (full speed) already running: MAME, SNES, Playstation, AMIGA (and most anything older of course, detailed discussion/speculation about emulators here)

Reality check (i.e. what won't work and what you shouldn't expect):
-Pandora has an ARM Processor, so DOS & Windows applications will have to be emulated, resulting in ~386 performance through DOSBOS, so don't expect System Shock 2 or Blood to run on this (but XCom or Shadow of the Comet and the like might! Perhaps even things like the 7th guest and Alone in the Dark).
-Dreamcast, Saturn & N64 Emulation are considered to be possible, but will probably not be fullspeed/playable & take some time to get to work. Only time will tell, but don't get your hopes up (again, see this thread).
-There will probably be few to no commercial games be made for this system. This system is really very specifically targeted at homebrew and emulation enthusiasts.

From their page:
The preorder date is now set - it's the 30th of September, the Pandora will start shipping at the end of November.

The first batch will be limited to 3000 units worldwide. The next batch will be made in 2009.

Orders will be on a first come first served basis. If demand is too high we will start to limit the orders to one Pandora per person, although any multiple orders recieved before that would still be honoured.

The price is $329.99 / £199.99 (Inc VAT) / E249.99 (Inc VAT).

Well, I got mine preordered. If any of you are interested, you should keep in mind that this is the first batch of a new technical device, so there may be hardware bugs that have slipped through testing and that will only be fixed in the second batch. Also note that no final system (aside from devboards) is currently assembled yet, the money from the preorders is the required funding to get the first 3000 systems made.

Finally, the order pages and forums seem to be completely hammered with requests, probably thanks to this engadget article, so be gentle, Neogaf.
 
I think it's a pretty neat product. Obviously this is going to be used a crazy amount for classic gaming piracy, but the whole idea of an open platform is also going to inspire tons of indie devs to put out interesting things.
 
329 US Dollars, not bad. Should wait for the next batch though. BTW what kind of video playback can this thing do? Also, can't the PSP already run all those emulators? This seems like an extremely niche thing considering the other applications.
 
I've been looking at this for a while. Unfortunately, it doesn't have much storage, and the hardware UI is pretty cludgey. I want something more along the lines of the iPod Touch, but completely open to user modification without "hacking".
 
Quite impressive if you want a tiny laptop along side an emulating machine, dunno if I would pay £200 unless it gets some lovely software in it's lifetime.
 
YYZ said:
329 US Dollars, not bad. Should wait for the next batch though. BTW what kind of video playback can this thing do? Also, can't the PSP already run all those emulators? This seems like an extremely niche thing considering the other applications.

As far as I understand the graphics chip supports hardware decoding for several video formats. Decoding of HD content (720p) should be possible once someone ports mplayer or vlc. Of course it makes little sense, since the screen is only 480p and the external video output is only S-Video, but still...

There is currently no portable device that can run an SNES emulator full speed (NDS & PSP) AND has suitable gaming controls (Pocket PCs, certain phones).

And yes, this IS an extremely niche thing. But consider that it has wifi and bluetooth. You will be able to use it as an UMPC (Ultra mobile PC)...
 
theBishop said:
I've been looking at this for a while. Unfortunately, it doesn't have much storage, and the hardware UI is pretty cludgey. I want something more along the lines of the iPod Touch, but completely open to user modification without "hacking".

SD cards will go up to 64GB at the end of this year.

As for the UI, the people over at GP32x are perfectionists, they would not have placed the analog nubs like that if it didn't play well...
 
Lafazar said:
SD cards will go up to 64GB at the end of this year.

As for the UI, the people over at GP32x are perfectionists, they would not have placed the analog nubs like that if it didn't play well...

Not if I want to use it for anything other than videogames.
 
It will live or die by it's custom software (games).
For the price I'd rather by a netbook which seems better suited for computing and should handle emulate gaming just fine. I wonder what sort of battery life this thing will have.
 
theBishop said:
Not if I want to use it for anything other than videogames.

Well it does have a touchscreen. And dual analog controls can be useful for lots of other things like scrolling, zooming in/out and fast forward/rewind...

pr0cs said:
It will live or die by it's custom software (games).
For the price I'd rather by a netbook which seems better suited for computing and should handle emulate gaming just fine. I wonder what sort of battery life this thing will have.

The price comes from the miniaturization, this thing fits in your pocket and has comfortable gaming controls, something a netbook doesn't have. I have an EEE PC myself and still ordered a Pandora.

Battery runtime is more than 8 hours (under full load!).
 
Got mine pre-ordered today, too. Massive, massive potential. The combo of keyboard, touchscreen, wifi, bluetooth, power, battery life, controls and size are too much to resist. I have a laptop, but I cant pull that (or something like an eee) out on the train to work for a quick shot, while a netbook doesnt have the control and input diversity offered by Pandora.

Of course it wont go head to head with DS or PSP in terms of support or game quality (for new software) - I'm happy with those machines. But I'll likely carry this around more simply because I can watch movies, listen to music, play some SNES/Arcade/Amiga/Speccy/whatever games and write notes (or, speak notes using the mic) all in a heartbeat, within minutes of each other, AND not worry about the battery life either - it ran a SNES emu at double speed for around 10 hours in a benchtest, which is no mean feat. That'll do me nicely.
 
Is that ARM proc the same that Sharp's Zaurus' use? If it is, it's a piece of garbage and you won't be doing any UMPCing with Pandora. Only custom apps will run well.
 
alske said:
Is that ARM proc the same that Sharp's Zaurus' use? If it is, it's a piece of garbage and you won't be doing any UMPCing with Pandora. Only custom apps will run well.
It is not the same. Have a look at their Wiki.
 
cedric69 said:
It is not the same. Have a look at their Wiki.

I didn't really see much int he wiki explaining how it was a decent processor. It seems like a decent game-system with the system-on-a-chip gpu, but there's nothing there that leads me to believe that it'll work well as UMPC.
 
They should have designed/optimized the entire thing specifically for PS2/N64/SNES emulation.

That would put it on the hype train.
 
I've read on/off about this thing for a few years. I used to lurk GP32X a lot when I got my GP2X, but honestly the fact that it WON'T do Dreamcast pretty much makes me lose any interest since the PSP can do most of the same stuff already, and it actually has real games as well. I'd kill for DC on my PSP :(.
 
open pandora is a UMPC / MID-class device (by intel's marketing nomenclature - Mobile Internet Device). the system is essentially TI's OMAP3 running an OSS environment. now, i have no experience with OMAP, but as somebody who's touched both the SGX and Ubuntu UME, i can attest to the prowess of both gpu and environment - the latter is essentially a touch-streamlined linux desktop, but underneath is a fully functional linux.

regarding the GPU, SGX eats practically everything else in the handheld segment for breakfast (possibly with the exception of nvidia's tegra which i haven't met yet) - shader model 4 / gl es2, possibly even desktop gl 2, depending on platform driver support. also, the OMAP3 features dedicated video-decoder hw, so dvd (720x480) is totally guaranteed.

and yes, i'm definitely eyeing one of those babes.
 
I've been following this little machine for quite some time now.

Thank god I searched for this before I went to make a thread myself. ... and sadly enough, many of the responses have been as expected. Oh well. This is a gaming forum after all.

Nethack at 800x480px with touchscreen support shall be done, and it shall be sublime, and I shall offer virgin sacrifices to whoever ports it. Even if it hasn't been done already I will find some unsuspecting proggers, drug them and lock them in my basement until I get my port. That and ScummVM will keep me afloat until the end of time. Plus emulators. And Ubuntu for the usual day-to-day stuff. Surfing should be exceptional on this cutie. It's an USB host system too. Two SD card slots. *twitch* So neat. So tiny. So purtiful.

Also, this is the ideal hybrid between an EEEPC, a PSP and a DS. A smallish formfactor, ridiculously powerful hardware, huge-ass resolution, touchscreen, analog&digital controls, a keyboard, WiFi, Bluetooth, and TV-Out included... what could I possibly want more? 250 bucks is a steal for this.

If you can't tell already, I'm far beyond the fapping stage. Not that it matters, really, frictional heat and excessive motion have obliterated everything related to that activity. The smoke makes it painful to breathe. It stings and burns. My world is agony. It's a good pain though.

I ordered two even before the newsletter arrived. One for me, and one for a friend. I know I'll probably end up betatesting the unit. My GP32 was a pretty bad unit too, I have no luck with these things.
 
blu said:
open pandora is a UMPC / MID-class device (by intel's marketing nomenclature - Mobile Internet Device). the system is essentially TI's OMAP3 running an OSS environment. now, i have no experience with OMAP, but as somebody who's touched both the SGX and Ubuntu UME, i can attest to the prowess of both gpu and environment - the latter is essentially a touch-streamlined linux desktop, but underneath is a fully functional linux.

regarding the GPU, SGX eats practically everything else in the handheld segment for breakfast (possibly with the exception of nvidia's tegra which i haven't met yet) - shader model 4 / gl es2, possibly even desktop gl 2, depending on platform driver support. also, the OMAP3 features dedicated video-decoder hw, so dvd (720x480) is totally guaranteed.

and yes, i'm definitely eyeing one of those babes.

You don't think the CPU/RAM will hamstring it's UMPC-ness? I have a Zaurus with an ARM in it, and that thing sucks for web surfing.

I'm definitely interested, but it's this vs an Aspire One.
 
alske said:
You don't think the CPU/RAM will hamstring it's UMPC-ness? I have a Zaurus with an ARM in it, and that thing sucks for web surfing.

I'm definitely interested, but it's this vs an Aspire One.
again, i don't have experience with OMAP3, but judging by the performance of the ARMv6 @430MHz in the iphone/ipt (coupled with the much weaker MBX, mind you) which, again, is 128MB-equipped, i have zero concerns about the web experience on a 600MHz ARMv7 with 128MB, at least when it comes to the hw raw performance.
 
they probably need the extra cash to get that chick in the top pictures some tits..

No disrespect but if you show a Chest view image at least have the chest!!!
 
alske said:
You don't think the CPU/RAM will hamstring it's UMPC-ness? I have a Zaurus with an ARM in it, and that thing sucks for web surfing.
Even the most advanced Zaurus shouldn't be able to touch this thing. IIRC they topped out at 400MHz and 64MB RAM before they were discontinued. Never mind the fact that the openpandora trounces them in the GPU and resolution, it offers 50% more speed and 100% more memory, going by the raw numbers alone. ... and I doubt you have the top-of-the-line Japan-only Zaurus anyway.
 
CTLance said:
Even the most advanced Zaurus shouldn't be able to touch this thing. IIRC they topped out at 400MHz and 64MB RAM before they were discontinued. Never mind the fact that the openpandora trounces them in the GPU and resolution, it offers 50% more speed and 100% more memory, going by the raw numbers alone. ... and I doubt you have the top-of-the-line Japan-only Zaurus anyway.

You could overclock the zaurus by about 33-50% fairly easily. I have the SL1000, which was Japan only when I bought it. I stopped following the market after I realized how garbage it was. Even setting a 1gb sd card up for caching, internet browsing was a chore. GAF and gmail took ages to open. Using other programs (email, IM, media player) was painful.
 
alske said:
You could overclock the zaurus by about 33-50% fairly easily. I have the SL1000, which was Japan only when I bought it. I stopped following the market after I realized how garbage it was. Even setting a 1gb sd card up for caching, internet browsing was a chore. GAF and gmail took ages to open. Using other programs (email, IM, media player) was painful.
Pandora can also be overclocked up to 50%, supposedly.
 
Linkzg, look at the OP again, there are some youtube vids of preproduction hardware. Also, you might find some others by visiting the site at http://www.openpandora.org/ or searching youtube.

alske: Well that sucks. Did you flash it to the open firmware thingy? Remember that the Open Pandora CPU has extensive floating point and SIMD support, something that the Zaurus' PXA-270 lacks. That alone should speed things up plenty. Like blu I doubt there will be any problems.


I am so pumped to see how the Cortex A8 core will fare with regards to battery life. I really hope they can hold true to the 8-10 hours on one charge promise, that would be totally awesome.

Plus that little chiperoo has me all giddy in anticipation. Hardware-accelerated Java, a virtual processor state possibly allowing for a hypervisor, additional SIMD instructions, and of course the sexy ARM instruction set. If that ISA was a female I'd date it. Hell, I'd probably try to jump her bones at first sight. Oooooh. Time to touch my LPC2104 board again. Yeeesss, you like that, don't you?
DON'T JUDGE ME!


Random unrelated thoughts:
I'd love to see this as a mobile RISC OS platform. I wonder if it's feasible. It's such a cool idea to have the OS sit in ROM chips.
( Obligatory IYONIX salute/tribute. *sniff* )
 
All the videos I found from both the OP and searching youtube just focus on the games being run. I kind of want a run down on the device that shows it off or something like that.
 
I like the way you think CTLance---though my first insane thought of that manner was for somebody to bring proper Tiled Dwarf Fortress to this machine to exercise it a bit more compared to most Roguelikes. Well, kinda.

I won't be able to throw into this thing, but I hope enough people can so that I can perhaps buy into a future revision of it somewhere down the line.
 
looks awesome and those specs are really nice.

You can use it as Ultra portable pc + gaming machine.

even thought I will wait for the second batch to arrive, don't want to get a horrible bug not seen on the first batch or jump into a empty machine

EDIT: Wow at the psx emulator and the AMiga one, they look nice.
 
Looks like a pretty cool device if you are interested in a ultraportable pc and classic gaming system. I'm skeptical that developers will try and support it though, since it does seem like a rather niche device. If all you want is something that can play classic game emu's, a psp is a much cheaper alternative.
 
B.K. said:
Too bad it doesn't improve the visuals as much as ePSXe though.
Oy, baby steps. The first commercial iteration of the hardware isn't even out yet! :lol

There's still plenty of time to improve the look and feel of the emulators until this thing hits the mass market.
 
I've been watching this thing for a while. Can't wait for them to show the final shell (in a video, not shopped). I'll be getting one after they've launched, too lazy to preorder.
 
Firefox on a Pandora devboard


alske said:
You could overclock the zaurus by about 33-50% fairly easily. I have the SL1000, which was Japan only when I bought it. I stopped following the market after I realized how garbage it was. Even setting a 1gb sd card up for caching, internet browsing was a chore. GAF and gmail took ages to open. Using other programs (email, IM, media player) was painful.
The only thing wrong with the Zaurus was the lack of floating point support. The real problem it had was no one apart from Sharp bothered to optimise the software on it to compensate. This meant that everything the community compiled for it ran like crap.
 
B.K. said:
But this one has a PERFECT SNES emulator!

No, it does not. Most games only run with frameskip. The PSP could certainly do better, the emulator just isn't very well optimized and no one seems to be improving it.

That's the other advantage of the Pandora: There is a great community of Homebrew developers already interested and actively developing stuff before the system even comes out. And they are perfectionists when it comes to emulation.

Mejilan said:
So fucking hideous. Hideos, even.

Well, it is "only" a community project, and they chose to put functionality before design. In my opinion it's the right choice. Fancy design costs a lot of additional development time.

B.K. said:
Too bad it doesn't improve the visuals as much as ePSXe though.

The current PSX emulator on the pandora doesn't even use the graphics accelerator chip yet (all in software on the ARM processor)! Think what will be possible with OpenGL ES 2.0 enhancements...

chickensoup said:

Wow, I can't believe how smoothly it runs. Memory will probably not be sufficient for hundreds of tabs, but it's really great for such a small device.
 
Lafazar said:
No, it does not. Most games only run with frameskip. The PSP could certainly do better, the emulator just isn't very well optimized and no one seems to be improving it.
I was actually referring to Pandora. They claim it has a perfect SNES emulator.
 
chickensoup said:
Firefox on a Pandora devboard



The only thing wrong with the Zaurus was the lack of floating point support. The real problem it had was no one apart from Sharp bothered to optimise the software on it to compensate. This meant that everything the community compiled for it ran like crap.

That does run pretty nice. If it can handle a few frames plus a chat client (whatever the hell gaim is called now would be acceptable) then I'll definitely buy one. Depending on the documentation/ide support I might even do some coding.
 
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