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The 2010 PC gaming hardware and technology discussion thread

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brain_stew

Member
Hey, me again, hello fellow PC-GAF disciples! :D

As you may have noticed the "I need a new PC" thread is often the "go-to" place for discussion about upcoming PC technology breakthroughs and new hardware but honestly that was never its intended purpose. As it is that discussion, while valued, is a little out of place there and takes attention away from posters that need genuine advice. As such I propose that we use this new thread to discuss all things "tech" that directly affect PC gaming and that the other one remains a "help thread."

Its probably going to become a thread where we can "geek it up" as well as just post information about any new PC hardware that doesn't necessarily need its own thread but is worth discussing either way. Discussion about the overall state of the PC hardware industry and where we're headed will also be welcome.

Heck, if anything this thread is here to appease those console gamers that don't like to see technology discussion flood threads for multiplatform games. Having a grasp on the capabilities of modern hardware and game engines is always going to be a huge part of PC gaming but some on this forum see it as an attack on their console boxes when it appears in threads about multiplatform games, for whatever reason. In the interest of my sanity if nothing else (I can only repeat the same things time and again before sounding like a broken record, no matter how accurate or relevant the text is, some would rather fiercely preserve their naivety it seems) keeping that sort of discussion, links to benchmarks, the usefulness of certain ingame settings and the like.


Recommended PC hardware sites:

Anandtech
PC Games Hardware
The Tech Report
Tom's Hardware
Arstechnica
Guru 3D
Hard OCP

Useful GAF hosted PC gamer resources:

The 2010 PC Screenshot thread
The 2010 "I need a new PC" thread
GAF's HTPC help and discussion thread
How to enable triple buffering and get a free fps boost if you don't like tearing
 
So I'll kick the thread off with a couple of things that I found interesting.

ASUS Ares 4GB 5970. I'm pretty damn adamant that a 1GB framebuffer is going to prove a huge bottleneck for the 5970 in future so its nice to know ASUS have a solution for that, they're also allowing you to go outisde of PCIe specifications and pump 450w to the card by using two two 8 pin and on 6 pin PCIe power connectors and seriously beefing up on the cooling. It should OC like crazy and is basically the best GPU money can buy, going to be pricey though.

Looks pretty to boot:

2ps0ghh.jpg



Tom's look at the next 10 years of 3D graphics. Its a well researched piece and well worth the read, the author isn't expecting dicrete graphics to disappear in the next 10 years as many I assume they will.
 
brain_stew said:
So I'll kick the thread off with a couple of things that I found interesting.

ASUS Ares 4GB 5970. I'm pretty damn adamant that a 1GB framebuffer is going to prove a huge bottleneck for the 5970 in future so its nice to know ASUS have a solution for that, they're also allowing you to go outisde of PCIe specifications and pump 450w to the card by using two two 8 pin and on 6 pin PCIe power connectors and seriously beefing up on the cooling. It should OC like crazy and is basically the best GPU money can buy, going to be pricey though.

Looks pretty to boot:

http://i48.tinypic.com/2ps0ghh.jpg[IMG]


[URL="http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/future-3d-graphics,2560.html"][B]Tom's look at the next 10 years of 3D graphics.[/B][/URL] Its a well researched piece and well worth the read, the author isn't expecting dicrete graphics to disappear in the next 10 years as many I assume they will.[/QUOTE]

I am cometh.
Click to expand...
 
_tetsuo_ said:
:lol @ that ASUS card. Holy Christ.
Click to expand...

I just love that stuff like this is made, it way out of my budget but its great to know that it even exists as an option.

Clocks are the same as a 5870, unlike the original 5970 and since you can send it 150w more than allowed under PCIe certification (:lol ) it shouldn't have gimped OCing capabilities. Cherry picked chips + extensive voltage tweaking options + 450w of power + excellent cooling (its got two massive copper heatsinks each with 4 heatpipes each) should equal some massive OCs.

Don't expect to pick one up for less than $1000 though! :lol
 
MickeyKnox said:
Fucking Christ, 450w directly into the card, really?
Click to expand...

Well ~70w comes from the slot, and the rest from the three power plugs, but yes, that single card can draw on as much as 450w!! Utterly ridiculous but completely awesome at the same time.
 
so a 4gb framebuffer would be targetted for 3 high res monitors with lots of AA? Or "normal" situations with really big textures?
 
I'm cross-posting this from the "ATI 58XX Preview"-thread:

MSI-HD5870-Twin-Frozr - OCed 5870 with 1 GiByte GDDR5 and custom cooling solution
msi-grafikkarten-cebitab54.jpg


Asus HD 5870 Matrix - OCed 5870 with 2 GiByte GDDR5 and custom cooling solution
asus-hd5870-matrix-034zg6.jpg


Sapphire HD-5970-4G - 2x5870 with 2 GiByte GDDR5 each and custom cooling solution
saphire-hd-5970-4g-ceb3bvu.jpg
 
While no pretty pictures or real information, This year i'm dying to find out about AMDs Bulldozer and Intels Sandy bridge CPUs. Both probably won't come out until 2011 but we should get some real information this year.

I hope so anyway :lol
 
Wish I could get a better view of that Sapphire...but it'll probably be the best of those coolers, since there are 4 heapipes on one side (assuming the other side has 4 as well). If the MSI is a lot cheaper, then it would probably be the best to get out of the 1GB models.

edit: wow that Sapphire has 3 fans does it? Seems a lot like the Arctic Cooling Accelero Xtreme setup.

Accelero_XTREME_GTX_Pro_pic_300.gif


accelero_xtreme_gtx_pro_content.gif


Probably even better though since I can see a heatplate over the non GPU components. That thing is going to be awesome.
 
Well I called that one right! :lol

Seems like a new cooler, but they've got heatplates over everything else, which means it should beat any cooler without custom heatsinks for the non-GPU components.

That thing is going to be an absolute beast. I wouldn't consider anything else if I were buying a 5970 (the cooler alone should be worth a $60-$80 premium).
 
evlcookie said:
Ah the $1k 6 core CPU. Wasn't CeBIT a few weeks back? Or am i confusing it with something else.
Click to expand...
It opened its doors for the public 2 hours ago. Maybe you're thinking of the CES?
 
dejan said:
It opened its doors for the public 2 hours ago. Maybe you're thinking of the CES?
Click to expand...

Very true. I thought GDC was the only thing soon, didn't realise CeBIT was also happening.
 
From the next decade article:
Over the next ten years, I anticipate quadruple-A games to have budgets in the region of $175 million, and ambitious games introducing new intellectual property having budgets of $60 to $80 million.
Click to expand...
frightening!

At that cost of production value hobbyist modification projects may not be feasible.
 
I NEED SCISSORS said:
"Military Class Component"

:lol

Now I want one..
Click to expand...

Well I can recommend em highly. Definitely not up to speed with the better 3rd party cooling solutions, but still way ahead of stock coolers. I keep my GTX 275 at a pretty quiet 30-35% fan speed and stay under 90C (you can bring GPUs up to about 95C max, so I always slow my fan as much as I can without passing 90C under stress tests).
 
brain_stew said:
Well ~70w comes from the slot, and the rest from the three power plugs, but yes, that single card can draw on as much as 450w!! Utterly ridiculous but completely awesome at the same time.
Click to expand...
It's not awesome in the least, if you're going to use the card to do any sort of regular gaming then you're looking at some fucking prohibitive electric bills.
 
MickeyKnox said:
It's not awesome in the least, if you're going to use the card to do any sort of regular gaming then you're looking at some fucking prohibitive electric bills.
Click to expand...

Not really. It isn't any less efficient than a normal 5970, you're just able to actually supply the core with amount of power it requires to run in non gimped mode. These cards won't actually be drawing 450w under load.

Idle power consumption (the statistic that really matters when it comes to power efficiency) should actually be lower than any of last generations high end single GPUs as the 5xxx series made huge strides in this area. Regardless, if you can afford a $1000 GPU then your power bill rising by a couple dollars a month is hardly going to be a major concern to you, now is it?



Daante said:
Next gen NVIDIA ION

http://www.youtube.com/user/nvidia?blend=1&ob=4#p/a/u/0/lQMy43Ndcb0

"Next-generation NVIDIA ION netbooks fuse great performance and great battery life with NVIDIA Optimus technology. Only ION netbooks let you experience full YouTube HD video, play popular PC games like World of Warcraft, and accelerate video and photo apps on the GPU. NVIDIA ION packs a premium graphics punch with no compromise on battery life"
Click to expand...

Its a pretty crappy product really, just a dedicated 16 (or 8) stream processor GPU, Atom CPU performance is still a million miles away from being useful for games. ION netbooks are priced in the same range as CULV machines and those come with what is effectively a full Core 2 duo just ran at conservative clocks and their ntegrated GPU can handle HD video decoding (the one real useful part of ION imo) just fine.
 
brain_stew said:
Regardless, if you can afford a $1000 GPU then your power bill rising by a couple dollars a month is hardly going to be a major concern to you, now is it?
Click to expand...

I've always seen people complaining about power consumption for parts like this sort of like people complaining that their '60s muscle cars don't get good gas mileage. Enthusiast parts = enthusiast priorities.

And as you mentioned idle power usage is dramatically better nowadays.

Great thread BTW, thanks for making it. :)
 
So finally, after all my complaining, the LGA1366 chipset gets a 6-core CPU that isn't an extreme edition. Old news, but new to me.

We've known for some time that Intel plans to reward X58 owners with a six-core Gulftown upgrade, which is great. But what's not so groovy is that the upcoming Core i7 980X -- planned for a March release -- will likely run $1,000 or more, leaving six-core computing to the wealthy and/or seriously committed.

Then last week came the announcement that AMD was readying no less than three six-core chips of its own under its new Phenom II x6 1000T series this May. And maybe this has nothing to do with anything, but it's at least curious that we're now learning of a second six-core chip from Intel, the Core i7 970.

According to Fudzilla, the chip is real, and it's not an extreme version, and so it won't carry an extreme price tag. The Core i7 970 will come clocked at 3.2GHz with 12 hyperthreading cores, along with a 6.4GB/s QPI. Toss turbo overclocking into the mix, and the 970 will sometimes race along at 3.46MHz.

Look for the Core i7 970 to ship in the third quarter of this year, and while we don't expect it to be cheap, it should end up running a good chunk less than the 980X.
Click to expand...

The i7 970 @ the rumored price of ~$550 would be a pretty unconvincing upgrade for a gamer though, the money would be far better spent on a newer (or second) GPU imo, plus, it remains to be seen how many games benefit from having 12 threads over 8 (and likewise 6 cores over 4). Still, it is nice seeing Intel doing something besides a $1,000 6-core CPU, and I'm sure it will eventually replace the 920 in benchmarks as well, showing us which games really make use of multiple cores.
 
I just recently built a system with an AMD Phenom X4 955 but I'm still using my 8800GT vid card and I'm looking to upgrade it this summer/fall. Which card is the best to go with for dx11? ATI 5850? Also, what's the best TB hard drive available?
 
I remember people joking about the new Nvidia cards coming only out after they figured out how to mount miniature nuclear reactors on the cards...that was during the GeForce 3 days when the mobo powered the card.

Now we have cards sucking 450 Watt through 3 (!!!) power connectors. That should be around the same as my whole pc with a quad core and the 5970´s little cousin 5850.

Still no hovverboards, though :/
 
storybook77 said:
I just recently built a system with an AMD Phenom X4 955 but I'm still using my 8800GT vid card and I'm looking to upgrade it this summer/fall. Which card is the best to go with for dx11? ATI 5850? Also, what's the best TB hard drive available?
Click to expand...

Wrong thread... I'd answer your question a little, but that'd defeat the purpose of having two threads, this one is for news, the other is for questions on parts/builds.
 
Minsc said:
Wrong thread... I'd answer your question a little, but that'd defeat the purpose of having two threads, this one is for news, the other is for questions on parts/builds.
Click to expand...

Whoops...sorry. I really hate not having the search function anymore.
 
Binabik15 said:
I remember people joking about the new Nvidia cards coming only out after they figured out how to mount miniature nuclear reactors on the cards...that was during the GeForce 3 days when the mobo powered the card.

Now we have cards sucking 450 Watt through 3 (!!!) power connectors. That should be around the same as my whole pc with a quad core and the 5970´s little cousin 5850.

Still no hovverboards, though :/
Click to expand...

It doesn't actually suck 450w though, the extra power connector is just there to provide the headroom for OCing and to remove the bottleneck that held back the card from delivering its true potential in the past. I'd count on it sucking around ~350w with both cores clocked to 1ghz (most will be capable of this, I'd wager) or 300w at stock. Not too bad in the grand scheme of things really, especially when the idle power consumption is so good.

If the chips are capable of it and your PSU can power it, it makes sense to get rid of such an arbitrary restriction.
 
Let me take this opportunity to say fuck the proprietary PhysX engine. I have an i7 and ATI 5870 but I can't run Mirrors Edge w/ physics? Grrr.
 
Q8D3vil said:
i saw this the other day and i had an argument with my friends about the price :D

i said it will be at least +750 $ but they said it will be between 350-500 $

what do you think gaf
Click to expand...

5 full size PCIe x16 slots!? Wtf!? Yeah, that thing aint going to be cheap, though I think you're shooting way too high with your $750 prediction, your friend is probably right.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Since it came up in the Metro 2033, and I was surprised how many were unaware of it. It is absolutely possible to use a secondary Nvidia card as a dedicated PhysX card if your main GPU is from ATI. Its actually pretty damn simple to setup if you're on W7, just follow the instructions and download the drivers from here:

http://www.gamephys.com/tag/dedicated-physx-card/

Anything from a 8600GT and up should do a pretty good job of it, so if you've got a card like that lying round, you might want to make use of it. Absolutely any board with two full size PCIe x16 slots should support this just fine and it shouldn't even matter if the second slot runs at x4 speed either. The determining factor of what maes a good dedicated PhysX card is the number (and speed) of its stream processors, the number of ROPs/TMUs and the card's memory bandwidth won't really affect performance, which is why something like a ~$50 GT220 is perfect, the fact it sips hardly any power fits in with what we're after as well (because this card is going to be sat idle a lot of the time).

These two cards are worth looking at if its something you feel like doing:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127462&cm_re=gt_220-_-14-127-462-_-Product ($35 after rebate!!)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150451


Edit: These benchmarks should show you the potential of the potent 5870 + GT 220 combo:

http://physxinfo.com/news/568/ati-hd-5870-nv-gt220-physx-benchmarks/

In Batman: AA they manage to pull off 88fps with PhysX set to high, a setting which will absolutely demolish any single Nvidia GPU setup. For instance my GTX 260 only manages around 30fps with PhysX set to medium and high comes with at least double the performance penalty in my experience, it was completely unplayable no matter my GPu settings.

Be aware this support is unofficial and could potentially be removed at any time but then its just a case of sticking with last month's drivers until someone hacks the new set (which they inevitably will). Potentially a nice little upgrade for $35 imo.
 
Even though I dropped out of the PC building race a long time ago, i still love browsing threads like this.

That 4GB Asus card is outta control :lol
 
LCfiner said:
Even though I dropped out of the PC building race a long time ago, i still love browsing threads like this.

That 4GB Asus card is outta control :lol
Click to expand...



Tell me about it, it's madness lol
 
5 full size PCIe x16 slots!? Wtf!? Yeah, that thing aint going to be cheap, though I think you're shooting way too high with your $750 prediction, your friend is probably right.
Click to expand...
your probably right
but it have a really some remarkable features :-
imageview_php.jpg


- USB 3.0

- support 2200 mhz ram .

- remote overclocking through usb and bluetooth .

- sata 6 gbs support .

- 10 channel audio ( that's 9.1 right ?! ) .



i think their going to do 1366 socket next :D
 
brain_stew said:
Edit: These benchmarks should show you the potential of the potent 5870 + GT 220 combo:

http://physxinfo.com/news/568/ati-hd-5870-nv-gt220-physx-benchmarks/

In Batman: AA they manage to pull off 88fps with PhysX set to high, a setting which will absolutely demolish any single Nvidia GPU setup. For instance my GTX 260 only manages around 30fps with PhysX set to medium and high comes with at least double the performance penalty in my experience, it was completely unplayable no matter my GPu settings.
Click to expand...

I never knew the difference was that big, think it would be worth adding a GT220 for dedicated physX if I allready have a GTX295?
 
brain_stew said:
Since it came up in the Metro 2033, and I was surprised how many were unaware of it. It is absolutely possible to use a secondary Nvidia card as a dedicated PhysX card if your main GPU is from ATI. Its actually pretty damn simple to setup if you're on W7, just follow the instructions and download the drivers from here:

http://www.gamephys.com/tag/dedicated-physx-card/

Anything from a 8600GT and up should do a pretty good job of it, so if you've got a card like that lying round, you might want to make use of it. Absolutely any board with two full size PCIe x16 slots should support this just fine and it shouldn't even matter if the second slot runs at x4 speed either. The determining factor of what maes a good dedicated PhysX card is the number (and speed) of its stream processors, the number of ROPs/TMUs and the card's memory bandwidth won't really affect performance, which is why something like a ~$50 GT220 is perfect, the fact it sips hardly any power fits in with what we're after as well (because this card is going to be sat idle a lot of the time).

These two cards are worth looking at if its something you feel like doing:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127462&cm_re=gt_220-_-14-127-462-_-Product ($35 after rebate!!)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150451


Edit: These benchmarks should show you the potential of the potent 5870 + GT 220 combo:

http://physxinfo.com/news/568/ati-hd-5870-nv-gt220-physx-benchmarks/

In Batman: AA they manage to pull off 88fps with PhysX set to high, a setting which will absolutely demolish any single Nvidia GPU setup. For instance my GTX 260 only manages around 30fps with PhysX set to medium and high comes with at least double the performance penalty in my experience, it was completely unplayable no matter my GPu settings.

Be aware this support is unofficial and could potentially be removed at any time but then its just a case of sticking with last month's drivers until someone hacks the new set (which they inevitably will). Potentially a nice little upgrade for $35 imo.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the detailed analysis. I think I will have to bite on that $35 deal and see how it works. I don't like that you have to apply some work arounds that could be disabled in the next update though and I thought there was news that PhysX would be disabled if it detected any ATI cards in the system?
 
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