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Despair in Gypsy ghetto town in eastern Romania

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Kabouter

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BARBULESTI, Romania — This predominantly Gypsy town an hour's drive from Romania's bustling capital seems stuck in another century.

Horse-drawn carriages churn muddy roads into near impassability. Many homes are little more than rundown shacks. Families are large, but often see children die in infancy.

It's little wonder that scores of Barbulesti's Roma, as the Gypsies are known, have used their EU passports to seek a better life in western Europe. But as the EU announces legal action against France over its policy of mass expulsions, some returnee Gypsies are saying poverty at home is better than the hardships they face on French streets.

"It was like being in the jungle," Brazilianu Moise said of the three months begging in the central French city of Orleans. "I am not returning."

The European Commission on Wednesday slapped France with a stern legal warning over its expulsion of more than 1,000 Gypsies in recent weeks, after their improvised settlements were destroyed and they were rounded up to be flown home.

The commission said it has officially demanded that Paris apply EU rules allowing free movement of EU citizens — a step that could eventually lead to a court case against France.

The French campaign has unleashed a deluge of criticism from senior officials in the EU, the United Nations, and the Vatican. They charge that President Nicolas Sarkozy is pursuing a blanket offensive against an already discriminated ethnic group, instead of homing in on individuals violating EU residency rules.

But many of Europe's estimated 10 to 12 million Roma are finding life to be wretched wherever they go. And some say that while things are bad at home, at least it's home.

Moise is happy at least to be reunited with his wife, Julieta, and their five surviving children. Two others died of diarrhea at age 2, the third, a 10-year-old, of unspecified causes.

The burly 34-year old with a buzz cut is distrustful of visitors and answered curtly when pressed for details of his life in France — or the circumstances of his expulsion two days ago.

"The French authorities acted like there was no God," he said. "They told us we were garbage."

He pulled out a cell phone to show grainy images of squalor inside an abandoned windowless warehouse that for him and 19 others — "including children" — was home in Orleans.

Fellow resident Maria Bacanu lives with her 5 children, her daughter's husband and their three children in a three-room shack, topped by a leaky tar-painted cardboard roof. She said she came back from France voluntarily in December because of concerns of what would happen to her if she were caught living illegally there.

"I was afraid of the police asking for papers," said the head-scarved 46-year old. "I don't want to return."

Some 200 of France's expelled Gypsies come from Barbulesti, said Ion Cutitaru, mayor of this town of about 7,000 people, 60 kilometers (about 40 miles) east of the capital Bucharest.

Not all share the view of Moise and Bacanu that life is more bearable back home.

Cutitaru, a Roma, said about half have already returned to France or other EU nations where begging brings in more money that the meager social benefits available in one of the EU's poorest members. Long-term unemployed here receive the equivalent of just euro10 a month for each child plus other monthly benefits of around euro45.

Only 50 Barbulesti residents are legally employed, he said, leaving many Roma nostalgic for Communist times, when "there were jobs, clothes and education."

Such memories are widespread — even if built on false premises. Instead of promoting education and equal opportunity, Marxist governments kept Roma on society's lower rungs by enticing them to do menial labor for relatively high wages, leaving them ill prepared for the challenges of capitalism.

Moise declined to say how he will make a living. But life for him, his wife and their children holds little promise.

With Romanian schooling done in shifts, "sometimes children wait till their siblings come home from school so they can use the same clothes and shoes," said Cutitaru, the mayor.

Most Roma girls leave school before completing fourth grade. Boys usually leave four years later. That perpetuates their lot as unskilled, often jobless, and dependent on state benefits. Girls are usually matched with future husbands before puberty and married at 16, when they start bearing children.

Romania has an overall birthrate of about 10.5 per 1,000 people — far below the replacement rate. But Cutitaru said his town's Roma have babies at a rate double the national average.

That, in turn, feeds Roma misery by creating future generations with no schooling, employment or future at home, or abroad.

"What can we do?" exclaimed Julieta Moise, her helpless expression mirroring the desperation felt by most of those in the community.

"We have no jobs and have lots of children."
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Photos at source:
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap...4OEW94SDAX_y9FE2VIQgD9IHL9T80?docId=D9IHL9T80
 
Dascu said:
It's kind of shocking that things like this are happening within the EU.
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Hungary and Romania really weren't developed enough to be let in. It's a real drag on the rest of the EU but I suppose it's good for every day people there.
 
Dascu said:
It's kind of shocking that things like this are happening within the EU.
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It really is, I can't understand how so many politicians and citizens can just brush these problems off. This isn't happening in some crazy far away place, this is happening right next door.
 
Most Roma girls leave school before completing fourth grade. Boys usually leave four years later. That perpetuates their lot as unskilled, often jobless, and dependent on state benefits. Girls are usually matched with future husbands before puberty and married at 16, when they start bearing children.
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Huh. And you say this hasn't been working out well for you? Maybe give it a few more generations just to be sure.
 
Let's talk about how they do "work", as I believe most posters here (especially from USA) aren't really familiar with it.

1) Each group has its own leader. Everyone does work for the leader.

2) Beggars give all their "earned" money to the leader. If you even attempt to give them food, they will refuse and ask for money ONLY.

3) Some groups of around 4-5 Roma earn around 2.000 euros (6 times the average paycheck in my country) a month from paper collection. They don't get to see that money. Everything goes to clan leader.

4) Pictures from a Roma "settlement" in the New Belgrade district, now dismantled because it interfered with the construction of a new bridge. Roma claimed HR violation and requested from the EU commission to force our government to build them houses, even though they have contributed absolutely nothing to society to actually earn them.

gaz.JPG


karton-004.jpg


20k39n5.jpg


An ordinary Roma settlement, right? WRONG. Every single of these so called houses were RENTED by the main clan overlord, who is an actual MILLIONAIRE. How? By renting these paper buildings for ludicrous amounts, forcing everyone in the camp to beg, steal and collect paper for him. Roma clan overlords are millionaires, while everyone else is forced to work and live like the scum of society. It's scary, but it's true.
 
Aklamarth said:
No, they didn't. Also they didn't get the one about WORKING for a living instead of stealing.
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To be fair, it is a bit difficult to walk into a business and apply for a job when you were told to quit school at age 16 so you could beg and have more kids.
 
Willy105 said:
Isn't this illegal?
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Of course it's illegal. The issue here is that you can't arrest 50-200 thousand people. What are you going to do with them? Clan overlords evade arrest and prosecution by various means, from bribery to going to another country and allowing others to run their operations (and send them the money). A few days ago, several Roma were arrested for forcing children aged 3-7 to beg for them. But that's just the tip of the iceberg... Not to mention the actual difficulties in running a trial against Roma. Blood vengeance and other rituals are common in their societies. No one is going to testify against a clan overlord.
 
Aklamarth said:
No, they didn't. Also they didn't get the one about WORKING for a living instead of stealing.
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no one would hire them anyway, at least here in Finland. there's centuries of hatred towards them. why should they even bother? why should they respect a society where the majority see them as sub-human?

i remember calling asking for a job, and the man answering me told me that only "damn gypsies and africans" have been calling all day, and "finally a white man called" (can tell by my name i guess)........ i hung up fast. just one example of reality.
 
Jeff-DSA said:
To be fair, it is a bit difficult to walk into a business and apply for a job when you were told to quit school at age 16 so you could beg and have more kids.
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Yes, this cycle needs to be broken NOW. The adults have more kids so they could beg and earn a living for the adults (who usually can do only 2 things : steal and do nothing).
About work...nobody expects a gypsy to work in a office (especially now since the unemployment rate is pretty big here in Romania and a large % of gypsies can't even read) but they could have a earnest living with manual labor (agriculture, various crafts etc). But working is hard...stealing is easier.
 
Sounds like these Roma clan-lords need to be hunted down so their people can begin to enjoy living in the modern era.
 
I'm so sick of every thread about Gypsies being full of "lol bannings incoming", "euro bans lol" or every woman driver thread being "omg Dragona incoming!", "Can't wait to see the bodies". Rarely happens, most thread of this type don't have bannings. Stop hyping everything up and contribute to the thread by posting your opinion, you know, like a normal forum.
 
btw today at work (local police office) i read papers documenting how Gypsies are treated in many countries of Europe, and i was shocked. in many places they are denied medical treatment... there are incidents where their children are crippled on purpose... :(

Gypsies have had to endure the most terrible, monstrous racism. and that cannot be good for the collective psyche of a people..
 
i hate bees said:
Phobias are irrational
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1 black crow among a dozen of unidentified crow doesn't make all of them black.
This holds true even if more than half of the crows are black - the rest doesn't automatically become black as well.
 
Meadows said:
I'm so sick of every thread about Gypsies being full of "lol bannings incoming", "euro bans lol" or every woman driver thread being "omg Dragona incoming!", "Can't wait to see the bodies". Rarely happens, most thread of this type don't have bannings. Stop hyping everything up and contribute to the thread by posting your opinion, you know, like a normal forum.
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I posted a story about getting mugged by a Roma Gypsy in the last thread and was treated to a hasty ban :D maybe my views were *slightly* too strong, but to be fair it was a scary situation and I dread to think what might have happened.
 
Shanadeus said:
1 black crow among a dozen of unidentified crow doesn't make all of them black.
This holds true even if more than half of the crows are black - the rest doesn't automatically become black as well.
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Don't know about phobias, but what Lagspike said above, I'm pretty sure all that is true. Gypsy clan overlords are serious business and are very much feared among their clansmen. Now of course not all of Roma belong to those clans, but those who want to live in those shanty towns I think are pretty much forced to do stuff he described.
 
This is gonna be another one of those threads.

And while France's recent anti-Roma activities are pretty despicable, there are problems with crime related to parts of the Roma people.
 
Combichristoffersen said:
This is gonna be another one of those threads.

And while France's recent anti-Roma activities are pretty despicable, there are problems with crime related to parts of the Roma people.
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...yet they did a blanket sweep.
 
They're trapped in a vicious cycle and it's the (EU) government's job to help them get out. Yet the Roma is such a secluded population group that has cut ties with the rest of society. I can't see any way to break that cycle.
 
canova said:
this is pretty much the answer
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Lol. No, that's not the 'answer'.


Their problems are definitely magnified by having all those children, that's obvious, but it's not the cause of their problems.

There problems are deeply rooted in lack of education and the inability to adapt to a changing world, thanks to the country's communist past.

You take the children away and they're still poor, uneducated and living in shanty town conditions.



So yeah. There's more to it than just over-breeding.
 
ImperialConquest said:
Lol. No, that's not the 'answer'.


Their problems are definitely magnified by having all those children, that's obvious, but it's not the cause of their problems.

There problems are deeply rooted in lack of education and the inability to adapt to a changing world, thanks to the country's communist past.

You take the children away and they're still poor, uneducated and living in shanty town conditions.



So yeah. There's more to it than just over-breeding.
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Well, clearly, the solution is religion then.
 
But as the EU announces legal action against France over its policy of mass expulsions, some returnee Gypsies are saying poverty at home is better than the hardships they face on French streets.

"It was like being in the jungle," Brazilianu Moise said of the three months begging in the central French city of Orleans. "I am not returning."
Click to expand...

If all they're gonna do is the same activities once they move to other EU countries (beg for their clan leader or whatever) then I really don't see a point of them moving. I've seen a couple of Romanian Gypsies in Portugal while on vacation, they didn't even speak the local language and they were all begging. If there was work opportunities and they were employed sure no problem, but they come and still beg/steal/whatever what is the point of moving. Seems like the heart of the problem has to be dealt with (the clan lord etc) which should have been done by the Romanian Government before joining EU.

I see wanna what people's reaction in the USA would have been if they had massive amounts of immigrants that only came to beg on their street (at least you see Mexicans working very hard). What if the only time you encountered a certain race\ethnicity was in the street begging pandering? There already is a big movement against illegals in the USA, which most that are already here are working, now imagine if they weren't doing shit just begging. Since most American gaffers have no clue wtf is a gypsy.

EDIT: Example and argument above is the Romanian gypsies migrating in to other EU countries (not native gypsies).
 
ImperialConquest said:
The ancestors of these Roma stopped the Muslim conquest of Europe...


They should be treated as royalty.
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and my ancestor discovered fire.

BOW DOWN BEFORE ME
 
There was a Gypsy/Roma camp outside of my town and I never saw them begging as far as I know.
Their living conditions were terrible though.
 
Moise is happy at least to be reunited with his wife, Julieta, and their five surviving children.

He pulled out a cell phone to show grainy images
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everything wrong with gypsies in those 2 sentences

stop having that many fucking children and stop wasting the money you do beg together on bullshit like TVs and cellphones before fixing more important stuff

christ that reminds me of the french report I watched a while ago
reporter: "these gypsies have no running water"
*video shows the gypsie family sitting in front of a LCD big screen TV"

-.-

ImperialConquest said:
The ancestors of these Roma stopped the Muslim conquest of Europe...
They should be treated as royalty.
Click to expand...
what?
 
otake said:
Well, clearly, the solution is religion then.
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Yeah because that's what I said.

WTF?



No where did I say that they shouldn't stop having kids. I just pointed out that it's only part of the problem.


Smh, some GAFers are so quick to go after religion, even when it's not even being discussed. Pathetic.


1. Basic Education
2. Sex Education
3. Assimilation into society
4. High Learning (Univ.)
5. Time



That's probably what will get them out of their situation...
 
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