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Apple vs. Amazon battle brewing over e-books? Answer: Probably not.

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Z

Zombie James

Banned
http://techcrunch.com/2011/01/31/ap...-sony-reader-app-could-spell-war-with-kindle/
edit: Source NYT article: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/01/technology/01apple.html?_r=1&ref=business

According to the report, Apple blocked Sony’s e-reader application from the iPhone and mandated that it would need to sell content via In-App purchases:

The company has told some applications developers, including Sony, that they can no longer sell content, like e-books, within their apps, or let customers have access to purchases they have made outside the App Store.

Apple rejected Sony’s iPhone application, which would have let people buy and read e-books bought from the Sony Reader Store.

Apple told Sony that from now on, all in-app purchases would have to go through Apple, said Steve Haber, president of Sony’s digital reading division.
Click to expand...

In fact, at this point there’s no reason to buy books through iBooks when you can just as easily download Amazon’s Kindle app from the App Store, which has access to a larger catalog of books, and lets you read those books on more devices. But instead of beating Amazon on price or features, it looks like Apple might just cut them off. Or force them to use in-app payments, which give Apple a 30% cut and would kill Amazon’s margins. Amazon has avoided using Apple’s in-app payments system by kicking users to a browser to complete their transaction, but according to the NYT report (see the bolded section above) it sounds like this will be banned.
Click to expand...

Never much liked Amazon's stance on DRM, but I thought they did a good job making the content you buy available on devices other than Kindles. Things might get messy now, though.

Update:

LCfiner said:
http://www.macrumors.com/2011/02/01...al-purchases-to-also-offer-in-app-purchasing/

Apple Now Requiring eBook Applications With External Purchases to Also Offer In App Purchasing

Following up on last night's story revealing that Apple had rejected a Sony Reader iOS application for eBooks, All Things Digital has received an official statement from Apple clarifying the company's position. According to the company, Apple has not changed its terms, but is simply enforcing existing ones that require applications offering content for purchase outside of the application to also offer the content via Apple's in-app purchasing mechanisms.

Apple's made no change to its App Store Guidlines, it's simply enforcing a rule that's been in them all along: apps that offer purchases elsewhere must support in-app purchases as well. “We have not changed our developer terms or guidelines," company spokesperson Trudy Miller told me. "We are now requiring that if an app offers customers the ability to purchase books outside of the app, that the same option is also available to customers from within the app with in-app purchase."

While short of the originally-feared banning of all external content purchasing methods, the new enforcement does raise additional questions about how such popular eBook applications as Kindle will deal with the requirement. Notably, will in-app purchases be required to be priced at the same level as external purchases, and if so, how will content providers respond to Apple taking its 30% cut of revenue from the in-app purchasing method that is more convenient for consumers than the external purchasing method that sends all revenue to the provider?
Click to expand...

I'll admit it: I think this is bad and worse than I had thought for vendors since the user will likely choose the easier in-app purchase option and then Apple gets a kickback and the developer loses revenue.
Click to expand...
 
C

clav

Member
Reading this, I was imaging the iPad commercial with books tossed on the piano keyboard while that repetitive three-note track played.

In the end, Amazon will probably succumb to Apple's system as Amazon has no power on this. If they don't, then they will push hard on that kindle or embrace Android + other platforms.
 
L

LCfiner

Member
seems like a nasty move by Apple. But I wonder if Sony's app had you buying stuff within the app but not via the app store's system and Apple made a point to differentiate that to Amazon's way of redirecting you to a web page.

this phrase "...or let customers have access to purchases they have made outside the App Store." is the most troublesome as that would imply that Amazon's current ability to send you to a web page would not longer work.

which is ridiculous.


edit: the more I think about it, I bet that bolded phrase is in reference to alternative in-app stores but not web based stores accessed via Safari. we'll find out soon enough. I doubt Amazon will be affected and I bet Sony will resubmit with a link to a webpage for purchases like Amazon does now.
 
T

Teddman

Member
The TechCrunch author of that post already got owned in the comments section:
Jason, you wrote a 572 word post without understanding anything about Apple's existing policies on the App Store. The Kindle app uses Safari to purchase which is totally OK just like you can go to any e-commerce website and buy anything you want on an iPad. Sony is trying to create their own in-app purchase mechanism different from Apple's in-app purchase which was always not acceptable. You should do your homework before writing an article like this.
Click to expand...
Apple banning purchases linked from an app through a web browser would kill off so many services that it would destroy e-commerce on iPhone & iPad for a wide range of sites that use the mechanism. Not gonna happen.
 
P

polg

Member
this would be very annoying. I read books on my kindle app because Apple don't have books in my country :/
 
Z

Zombie James

Banned
Teddman said:
The TechCrunch author of that post already got owned in the comments section:Apple banning purchases linked from an app through a web browser would kill off so many services that it would destroy e-commerce on iPhone & iPad for a wide range of sites that use the mechanism. Not gonna happen.
Click to expand...

I think the second part of the statement is what's in question here ("...or let customers have access to purchases they have made outside the App Store.") I think everyone knows Apple never let people build a competing in-app app store.
 
D

Deleted member 17706

Unconfirmed Member
tino said:
Arent people buying a lot more Kindle book than iBook books? Apple is desperated.
Click to expand...

I really don't know why anyone would buy anything outside of Kindle in terms of ebooks.
 
D

Dan

No longer boycotting the Wolfenstein franchise
It sickens me with where Apple is going with all this. If there weren't tens of millions of sheep who just have to have a iWhatever this wouldn't be so bad, but when everyone's cheerfully embracing a company with such blatant goals of getting a stranglehold on content access and payment options... ugh. Not cool at all.
 
O

Orlics

Member
We should avoid jumping to conclusions. What is the reason the e-reader app was rejected? The Kindle app is around on the App Store, so it's not like Apple has any sort of policy against e-reading apps in general. People are quick to point fingers at Apple all too often.
 
T

Teddman

Member
Zombie James said:
I think the second part of the statement is what's in question here ("...or let customers have access to purchases they have made outside the App Store.") I think everyone knows Apple never let people build a competing in-app app store.
Click to expand...
Yeah, to be fair, it's awkwardly worded and NYTimes should know better and provide clearer context.
NYTimes said:
Apple told Sony that from now on, all in-app purchases would have to go through Apple, said Steve Haber, president of Sony’s digital reading division.
Click to expand...
"From now on"? That has always been the case, all in-app purchases go through Apple. The Times didn't make that point clear or describe how Apple doesn't restrict web browser-based purchases.
 
Z

Zombie James

Banned
Teddman said:
Yeah, to be fair, it's awkwardly worded and NYTimes should know better and provide clearer context.
Click to expand...

Engadget seems to have the same idea:

The reasons given to Sony were that Apple will no longer accept applications that permit in-app purchases of content that don't go through Apple itself, and, moreover, will not tolerate apps that access content purchased through external content stores. So the Sony Reader Store is out -- but wait, doesn't the Kindle app do the exact same thing?
Click to expand...
 
T

Teddman

Member
Yeah, all these sources are linking back to the same quote from a disgruntled Sony dude. Their interests dovetail: Sony is giving Apple bad press in return for rejecting their app, and the blogs like Engadget reap hits from a provocative story.

Surely Apple is not burning their bridges with all of their content providers and vendors. On the other side, it's pretty cool that Android does allow in-app purchases for a more seamless experience. The Sony Reader app for Android was approved just fine.
 
L

LCfiner

Member
Zombie James said:
Filed under "wait and see" then.
Click to expand...


pretty much.

I certainly hope I'm right about this. I like having my Kindle books on the iPad and iPhone and I would hate it if Apple suddenly started policing links to an external web page to buy something.

I know Apple likes control and vertical integration but I don't think they'll change their current policy into anything more strict. They're not cartoon villains.
 
G

glaurung

Member
Kind of a dick move by Apple.

Kindle is available, does this mean that Apple will soon start removing it from the marketplace as well?

Censoring and greed is not helping Apple at this point.
 
3

345triangle

Member
i think sony's reader store relies on itunes-style software, i.e you can't buy stuff through a browser, so i imagine they tried to implement an in-app purchase thing because they can't go the kindle route of opening a link in safari. hopefully something gets sorted soon, even if it's just a way to read books you previously bought on a computer, because i want one of the new sony pocket readers...
 
S

SnakeXs

about the same metal capacity as a cucumber
Jumping to conclusions? Check.
Not reading any pertinent info? Check.
Carte blanche Apple trolling? Check.

Yep, it's a GAF Apple thread alright.
 
G

Ghost

Chili Con Carnage!
I think Sony just broke the rules by trying to sell in app without the app store.

Kindle App has worked around that rule from the beginning. I think this is a non-issue.
 
M

mAcOdIn

Member
Zhengi said:
God bless Apple, the next MS. *salute*
Click to expand...
Hahahaha, Apple's already way worse than Microsoft, Microsoft doesn't stop you from releasing your product(not just this app but any of the ones denied onto their store), they just undercut you or bundle their own with the OS.

That said, I tried both on my iPad before I sold it and being knocked out to order the books through Safari was a pain in the fucking ass, I see what Apple's trying to do, it is nicer when it's in the appstore and I see why Apple wants money by forcing you in the app store but I think what'd clearly be in the consumer's best interest is for Apple to allow stores within their store even if they don't get a cut, but Apple's a business, this is what they do.

Personally I tired of Apple and sold my iPad but I wont lie, it was a more polished experience for the most part than anything else I tried, just to fucking limited in the most annoying ways.
 
E

E-phonk

Banned
For what it's worth, in Belgium Apple is allready under fire for doing something similar to newspapers who let you read the daily newspaper on the ipad/iphone. Apple demands a 30% cut from now on, on all subscriptions/news papers/magazines sold on the iphone/ipad (but often these kind of subscriptions give you access to the newspaper on the internet/through your email/through the app-)


http://www.destandaard.be/artikel/detail.aspx?artikelid=DMF20110131_083

GoogleTranslation:
Media Minister Ingrid Lieten (SP.A) wants more information from computer company Apple about the the way it calculates it's fees for selling subscriptions for IPAD applications. She also wrote a letter to the European Commission.

A few weeks ago, Apple let various Belgian and Dutch media companies know that they will oblige iPad subscriptions to newspapers or magazines to sell through the Apple online store. This way Apple's would get a 30 percent share.

Minister Lieten sent a letter today to Apple and the European Commission to express concerns. "While media companies have taken the first exploratory steps towards digital content, and are still trying to build a profitable business model, with some success stories - Apple is willing to changes the rules."

She now fears that demand from Apple are bad for the further development of the tablets. "Apple's business attitude can stifle innovation and ultimately have an impact on the quality and diversity of supply. (...) The changing arrangement of Apple threatens the entry of players on the market by building a number of barriers and therefore may impact on the diversity of the media landscape. "

Minister Ingrid Lieten thus calls for a new dialogue between Apple and media companies. Lieten Minister also sent a letter to European Commissioners Kroes and Almunia, asking for closely monitoring this case..
Click to expand...

The European commission is very sensitive towards this...
 
N

neojubei

Will drop pants for Sony.
SnakeXs said:
Jumping to conclusions? Check.
Not reading any pertinent info? Check.
Carte blanche Apple trolling? Check.

Yep, it's a GAF Apple thread alright.
Click to expand...
Pretty much. Even had an isheep comment as well.
 
S

SmokyDave

Member
Rage! Outrage!

Apple monopoly ripoff isheep rage closed garden rage choice new microsoft monopoly!

Ghost said:
I think Sony just broke the rules by trying to sell in app without the app store.

Kindle App has worked around that rule from the beginning. I think this is a non-issue.
Click to expand...
Oh, I see. Cool.
 
N

neojubei

Will drop pants for Sony.
So this is about Sony making a fuss about being rejected for breaking a rule and apple haters jumping to conclusions.
 
S

Salazar

Member
neojubei said:
So this is about Sony making a fuss about being rejected for breaking a rule and apple haters jumping to conclusions.
Click to expand...

I don't hate Apple by any means. I just luuuuuuuurve Amazon, and am therefore irrationally sensitive to the idea of their service being tampered with or diminished.
 
L

LCfiner

Member
neojubei said:
So this is about Sony making a fuss about being rejected for breaking a rule and apple haters jumping to conclusions.
Click to expand...

well... it's not QUITE so simple.

the original NYT article wrote this:

"The company has told some applications developers, including Sony, that they can no longer sell content, like e-books, within their apps, or let customers have access to purchases they have made outside the App Store. "

so, some the questions to be raised are

1) who are these other app developers?
2) is the phrase about "purchases outside the app store" a direct quote?
3) did Sony provide any letter from Apple stating these new rules exactly as they are written or is this potential confusion from the writer about Sony wanting to give access to its own in-app purchasing system and bypass itunes?

If the phrase about Apple not allowing content from purchases made outside the app store is accurate and not conjecture from the author, then there is reason for concern.

But, I've put my money on this being a misunderstanding and that Apple is simply holding firm on its existing policy of not allowing in-app purchases that don't go through an iTunes account.
 
S

SmokyDave

Member
Salazar said:
I don't hate Apple by any means. I just luuuuuuuurve Amazon, and am therefore irrationally sensitive to the idea of their service being tampered with or diminished.
Click to expand...
Amazon & Salazar, sitting in a tree. K.I.S.S.I.N.G.

Ooooh, ice burn.
 
N

neojubei

Will drop pants for Sony.
Salazar said:
I don't hate Apple by any means. I just luuuuuuuurve Amazon, and am therefore irrationally sensitive to the idea of their service being tampered with or diminished.
Click to expand...


Understandable since the thread title make it seem that the amazon kindle app was going to get pulled or something but really it is about sony reader app being rejected and conjecture about other e-book apps like kindle.

Could game developers or companies that put games on xbox live use in game DLC purchases not purchased through xbox live?
 
S

Suairyu

Banned
Textbook example of abusing position. A complain gets made and the EU would probably sort it out super quick. How about the US regulators?
 
N

neojubei

Will drop pants for Sony.
Suairyu said:
Textbook example of abusing position. A complain gets made and the EU would probably sort it out super quick. How about the US regulators?
Click to expand...


About what exactly?
 
X

Xater

Member
Glad for the thread title change. If this really was anything Apple would have yanked the Amazon app a long time ago. Great outrage over nothing though.
 
S

segasonic

Member
mAcOdIn said:
Personally I tired of Apple and sold my iPad but I wont lie, it was a more polished experience for the most part than anything else I tried, just to fucking limited in the most annoying ways.
Click to expand...
why didn't you just jailbreak?
 
N

neojubei

Will drop pants for Sony.
Pretty interesting comment on engadget comment sections

Let me get this right... What people want is for any App to be able to end run around Apples charging model?

So instead of selling my app for $10 - I could put a free app on the app store - and then charge customers $10 to upgrade. And the $10 comes entirely to me. I don't have to share that $10 with Apple.

In other words, people calling Apple a dictator think that the access to the platform should be entirely free?

Perhaps we should ask Microsoft if we can put games on their XBox platform without paying them their 70%.
Or Perhaps Sony would let us have free access to their PS3 platform? Anyone want to ask Sony if they would let us put money making stuff on the PS3 - and not share revenue with them?

Yeah, thats the same Sony by the way.

C.
Click to expand...
 
T

trinest

Member
Does Apple even have a leading ebook resource? I think they offer them in iTunes right?

Google would be a better one to go to war with Amazon- as they have the book repository.
 
L

LCfiner

Member
trinest said:
Does Apple even have a leading ebook resource? I think they offer them in iTunes right?

Google would be a better one to go to war with Amazon- as they have the book repository.
Click to expand...

Apple sells books in the iBookstore. part of the iBooks app.

selection is limited compared to amazon kindle
 
G

giga

Member
Amazon has avoided using Apple’s in-app payments system by kicking users to a browser to complete their transaction, but according to the NYT report (see the bolded section above) it sounds like this will be banned.
Click to expand...
This is just drivel from TechCrunch. How would Apple even block content purchased elsewhere without affecting all other sorts of apps that pull content from the web?
 
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