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'The Real Silent Hill Experience' (Valid in-depth analysis of the Silent Hill series)

L

Lime

Member
*Note: if you haven't played Silent Hill 1, 2, 3 and 4, then you probably shouldn't watch this

So earlier today I stumbled upon a video series describing and analysing the Silent Hill series.

Click here to watch The Real Silent Hill Experience* (skip to Part 1 if you do not need the introduction)

It is made by DerFuzhwar, Rosetter and Fungo, who is known for uploading and preserving much Silent Hill media, such as an 1 ½ hours film presentation of Silent Hill 2. The video series is very well-made (considering it is fans behind it) although with the occasional bad joke here and there, plus it is divided into 13 different parts, so it is a mouthful to watch. Their analysis is entertaining and enlightening, while the premises of many of their claims and arguments are highly valid and supported by knowledge restricted to *only* official confirmations of the concepts/theories, meaning that a member of the original Team Silent has to have been quoted as a source for the claim or argument to be considered true. Their best parts are the more ones focused on the concepts of Silent Hill (but all of the parts are worth watching):

Part 11 - Analysis 1
Part 12 - Analysis 2

For example they really do a nice job of highlighting the conceptual deficiencies of the post-Team Silent entries. Such as showing Homecoming's blatant rip-off of Saw and Hostel, thereby reinforcing what fans have been fearing with the direction that the series took with Konami's choice of outsourcing it. I also have no faith in Team Vatra and their Downpour entry in the series based on the quotes made by Devin Shatsky in part 12b. Downpour might just be another poor imitation of Silent Hill 2 with the main character having amnesia.

I think the history of the Silent Hill series is an interesting phenomena that highlights the link between creator, artefact and good business: One simply cannot churn out sequel after sequel of the same IP over and over again without some loss of intellectuality and creativity. What Team Silent (however nebulous that term might be) created in SH1-3 (and to some extent 4) were lightning in a bottle, meaning that the games themselves were so masterfully detailed in their atmosphere, storytelling, homages and inspirations, visuals, and music, that the chances of it happening again by 'milking the cow' was drastically lessened. So when Koanmi dissolved Team Silent and outsourced the IP to future developers, they made a sound business decision, but it resulted in the new developers trying to mimic Team Silent's original games by checking off their Silent Hill Checklist™. Obviously this is a recipe for a creative disaster, which shows in the outsourced Silent Hill games. In relation to this aspect, there is the comment made by Masahiro Ito (monster designer of SH1-3) in a reply to an e-mail sent by a Silent Hill fan (Furin from Helldescent):

masahiroito_email8jy6.png


I think much of the original Team Silent (or at least the key members such as Ito and Owaku) wanted to try something new instead of Silent Hill. It would have been incredibly interesting to see what they would have produced based on SH1-3, but Konami chose to keep on churning out entries in an already established IP. It is another example of good business clashing with artistic creativity, which is why I find the Silent Hill series interesting from a game development standpoint.

Furthermore, they received an e-mail from Jeremy Blaustein (translator and assistant on SH1-4) writing about what Konami has been doing with Hiroyuki Owaku (co-writer/writer of Silent Hill 1-3). It is terrible to see such talent go to waste:

owaku2aki.png


Sorry for the long OP with some bad wording and grammar (English is my second language), but I just wanted to share it on Neogaf, knowing how many fans of the series and Team Silent exist on this board. I had to try to condense much of the information to simple and interesting points, but there is still much more in the videos that I have left out.
 
I find interesting that a good portion of modern literary analysis is based on the "death of the author" concept, yet most of the videogame analysis is heavily based on whatever the developers say about the title. Even game guides are taken as gospel sometimes.

I think this is something we inherited from the comic / science fiction / fantasy communities.
 
Lime said:
I also have no faith in Team Vatra and their Downpour entry in the series based on the quotes made by Devin Shatsky in part 12b. Downpour might just be another poor imitation of Silent Hill 2 with the main character having amnesia.
Click to expand...

The most worrying thing about Downpour is that Brian Gomez is the director. Shatsky is really nothing to worry about. With that said, they really seem to be trying to actively avoid including anything that would instantly remind people of previous games (that includes locations and enemies). So from that perspective they're taking an approach that's different from previous developers.

And the Owaku situation is one of the saddest things i've read happen to a developer in the industry. That guy is unbelievably talented. Konami needs to get their shit together.
 
I appreciate your post and these videos seem well made. However, I was curious to see what they had to say on Homecoming considering its one of my favorite SH games and I was pretty disappointed to hear what they had to say.

"If you don't like the controls, get used to them. Or don't play Silent Hill." A lot of their complaints are pretty close minded and a bit ridiculous. Homecoming had a ton of personality as well as great controls and-

You know what I just disagree with what they have to say about American made Silent Hills. I know thats not much to go on but I feel that a lot of fans are too rooted in Team Silents past. The American made games are solid and well done even eclipsing a lot of great moments from the previous games.
 
I've wrote about five different replies to this thread and deleted them all. I seriously can't get across my point without seeming douche like.

So I guess I'll just be a douche. I love the Team Silent games and think everything else in the franchise sucks. Hard. I replay those games yearly and have feverish debates about what it all means and how it all fits in my own head. I love them, but the general internet community for Silent Hill is a shit hole which I stay clear of.

I watched a few of these videos, and it's pretty cool for me to see these guys, who have clearly spent way more time and thought on the series, come to the same conclusions on a ton of stuff as I have. They're just video games, but it's nice to have some sort of confirmation.

I just reread that. I have no life.
 
While the analysis is certainly interesting, if not presented in a bit of a stilted manner, the commentary on things like control, gameplay or graphics sort of undermine the intelligent aspect of the documentary.
 
For a second I was hoping this for a themepark ride.
 
bhlaab said:
Yeah I can't watch this these guys are just too douchey
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That's the most annoying part about it. I wish that they'd just be straight forward with the presenting instead of trying to insert jokes and using an accent whenever they're reading quotes from Yamaoka. It's still pretty interesting though especially since they view SH3 as the best game in the series (just got to that part). Certainly not a common opinion in the SH community.

Edit: They hate the MGS3 ending theme? What the hell?
 
Yeah, I agree with you all about their way of conveying things. I just look past it and filter out their failed attempts at humour or nerdy whining and instead focus on crystallizing their information and research.

Basically I approach it like Redlettermedia's Star Wars reviews: the occassional good point, such as the argument against the overuse of Pyramid Head, and the elaborate research on topics such as monster design or Alessa's sacrifice.
 
Grisby said:
I appreciate your post and these videos seem well made. However, I was curious to see what they had to say on Homecoming considering its one of my favorite SH games and I was pretty disappointed to hear what they had to say.

"If you don't like the controls, get used to them. Or don't play Silent Hill." A lot of their complaints are pretty close minded and a bit ridiculous. Homecoming had a ton of personality as well as great controls and-

You know what I just disagree with what they have to say about American made Silent Hills. I know thats not much to go on but I feel that a lot of fans are too rooted in Team Silents past. The American made games are solid and well done even eclipsing a lot of great moments from the previous games.
Click to expand...

I agree with you here. Homecoming had its faults, but control was NOT one of them. In terms of combat it's the ONLY one that actually got this part right. Combat in homecoming is challenging without being unfair, and totally responsive.
 
The frequent failed attempts at humor really bring down the overall experience. And some of their opinions are really bizarre. 2 was the first in the series where the atmosphere itself was scary? 1 had that in spades as well.
 
For example they really do a nice job of highlighting the conceptual deficiencies of the post-Team Silent entries.
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stopped reading there. 'The Real' silent hill experience should have clued me in to the elevated sense of self worth the people behind this obviously have.

Climax UK have made one game as good as any other in the series, and one other better than at least one of the team silent efforts. it's such a shame Konami decided not to advertise Shattered Memories.

and frankly, it completely makes absurd the notion of 'milking the cow'. yeah, they let a team make the game they wanted to make, and then didn't support it with advertising.

sure sounds like a 'churned out' sequel.

the story telling in Shattered Memories is many times better than SH2. for one it had multiple characters who's fates i cared about instead of zero.

SH1 is still the best. SH4 is still the worst. the others slot in between whoever made them.
 
Hmm not liking their opinion about homecoming's controls. To say they aren't that great is one thing, to argue that homecoming should have used 10 year old tank controls is a little ridiculous.
 
Tylahedras said:
Hmm not liking their opinion about homecoming's controls. To say they aren't that great is one thing, to argue that homecoming should have used 10 year old tank controls is a little ridiculous.
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They talk earlier about how they feel that control scheme suits SH because it was known for multiple camera angles. It's a matter of opinion though. Tank controls never really bothered me in SH since it's a series with very little focus on action.

They're spot on with the Saw comparison with Homecoming though. The gore was ridiculous. And those clips of Shane talking about Silent Hill is hilarious. It makes it seem like he's never even played any of the games.

Edit: Holy shit at the comparison between Homecoming and Hostel. That's....wow.
 
plagiarize said:
stopped reading there. 'The Real' silent hill experience should have clued me in to the elevated sense of self worth the people behind this obviously have.

Climax UK have made one game as good as any other in the series, and one other better than at least one of the team silent efforts. it's such a shame Konami decided not to advertise Shattered Memories.

and frankly, it completely makes absurd the notion of 'milking the cow'. yeah, they let a team make the game they wanted to make, and then didn't support it with advertising.

sure sounds like a 'churned out' sequel.

the story telling in Shattered Memories is many times better than SH2. for one it had multiple characters who's fates i cared about instead of zero.

SH1 is still the best. SH4 is still the worst. the others slot in between whoever made them.
Click to expand...
so many wrong opinions in a single post
 
I agree with about SH3 although I think they missed some of the more subtle touches and the strong emotional core that made the game work.

They went over most of the gripes I had with SH4 although they didn't mention Walter's shitty design, glitched out power attacks, poorly paced and designed storyline, awful item recognition in the room, and some other things. They liked it better than I did but at least they admitted that the game was poorly made.


SM is better than all games post SH3 but that's as far as it goes. There was far too much wrong with that game to place it among the top 3. SM had some great ideas but the poor execution, complete lack of any real gameplay, super obvious plot twist, and the father/daughter relationship being too full of cliches to take seriously really hurt the game. They should have gone with a totally new story instead of trying to wrap Silent Hill 1-3 into one reboot/remake/reimagining.

They also don't subscribe to Mary staying at Brookhaven so that already puts them above the entire community of silent hill heaven.

As much as I hated the SH movie they do go out of their way rip Gans. He didn't understand the game and made a good looking movie with a terrible script. I still think he meant well... aside from getting rid of Harry anyway.

They do come off a little full of themselves like any fanbase but at least they don't try to pass of a bunch of bad fan fiction as fact.
 
Grisby said:
I appreciate your post and these videos seem well made. However, I was curious to see what they had to say on Homecoming considering its one of my favorite SH games and I was pretty disappointed to hear what they had to say.

"If you don't like the controls, get used to them. Or don't play Silent Hill." A lot of their complaints are pretty close minded and a bit ridiculous. Homecoming had a ton of personality as well as great controls and-

You know what I just disagree with what they have to say about American made Silent Hills. I know thats not much to go on but I feel that a lot of fans are too rooted in Team Silents past. The American made games are solid and well done even eclipsing a lot of great moments from the previous games.
Click to expand...
More likely average and not solid.

I liked the basic idea of Homecoming but the storytelling and implementing the characters was just so bad as well as involving Silent Hill.
The basic story part could have been so great if they worked on every aspect attentive.
Emotions and seeing them on characters , developing the story even further with more of the backround about Alex would have been so much better.
Homecoming was just half baked , decent but not a Silent Hill more likely a horror game that wasn't finished and just thrown towards the audience with the hope it was enough.

Besides the scary factor just wasn't enough , basically Silent Hill was always a game that wanted to shock you psychologically instead of just fighting and letting the blood flow.
But if this factor get's nearly no attention without developing the story that could shock you at least it's just not done in my eyes.
 
Prime Blue said:
Approve of everything Fungo puts out, a very talented and perfectionist individual.
Thanks for posting!
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FINALLY somebody posted this video series. Its great work! But I hold a personal stake in it because I know FUNGO personally.

Fungo is very serious about Silent Hill, but very hurt by the direction the series has gone since Team Silent.

My only gripe about TRSHE series is it seems a bit opinionated and less like a documentary, but it's still fun to watch, and pretty much everything that they present is backed up by some form of physical evidence.

Here's Me and Fungo from July 2009. He was in my wedding party in Wisconsin. (for the ones calling bullshit for my personal claim, if there are any)

c13356b6f60f93d330efc78bbaae94baad325f7f.jpg


randomwab said:
I've wrote about five different replies to this thread and deleted them all. I seriously can't get across my point without seeming douche like.

So I guess I'll just be a douche. I love the Team Silent games and think everything else in the franchise sucks. Hard. I replay those games yearly and have feverish debates about what it all means and how it all fits in my own head. I love them, but the general internet community for Silent Hill is a shit hole which I stay clear of.

I watched a few of these videos, and it's pretty cool for me to see these guys, who have clearly spent way more time and thought on the series, come to the same conclusions on a ton of stuff as I have. They're just video games, but it's nice to have some sort of confirmation.

I just reread that. I have no life.
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I wouldn't call that douchy. That sounds like the typical answer that comes from most that I've heard in regard to the series.
 
Oh no, it's back to haunt me again...


First off, I think they did a fantastic job putting this together. Their dedication to the series is evident in how much research, capturing, and work went into this. Heck, I think this took around 2 years or so to concept and create. That said, I was extremely disappointed about halfway through once they reached the newer titles/movie.

The videos start out as an informative, beloved look at the series, but becomes a big bash-fest on the western developed games. I'm not going to deny that the games don't have flaws, but it was extremely disappointing watching the tone of the videos devolve into what you read everywhere on silent hill forums.
Not to mention there were many smaller things that made the videos really uncomfortable, like the japanese accents when quoting someone from the team, burning the dvd, and others.

Obviously, these guys hold the earlier titles in the greatest of esteems, and it's not likely that they would be able to present the newer games in a way that equaled those. That doesn't mean we have to be force fed their views on them as fact. I mean, what about the controls for homecoming? We're told in the earlier videos that you should give the tank controls a chance and to get used to them, but we're suppose to despise the controls of homecoming? Why do they completely discount much of the info from the books? The guy who was in charge of translation has stated (wish I could remember where) that his work was heavily scrutinized, revised, and edited by Konami various times before finalized. The presenters just pick and choose what qualifies as legitimate information as they see fit. There are just too many things in the second half that really leave a bad taste in my mouth.

Fungo and Rosseter are, unfortunately, the type of fans I see killing silent hill more than konami or another developer ever could. I completely and utterly understand the love they have for early silent hill and the desire to preserve that by discontinuing production on future silent hill entries. However, since that's not what Konami wants to do, it's these kinds of fans that are really vocal against things that retread old ground because it's so precious, but they lambast them for doing anything new because it betrays their preconceptions.
I'm a pretty big silent hill fan, and I hate that the quality has (arguably) declined over the years, but I still try to take it in stride. I do my best to avoid approaching the series the way these guys seemingly do, with a burning
lawl, dvd
disgust. I thought Shattered Memories was an incredible entry into the Silent Hill library, and it completely blew away all my pre-game worries.



Overall, though, they really did make an outstanding piece of fan work, and I certainly think everyone who is a fan of the series should watch it. I just wish it had kept that same respectful tone through the entirety of the series, even if they were expressing their disapproval.

If you guys want to, I suggest listening to this podcast discussing it.

tl;dr - Well made, disagree with a lot of stuff, still recommend watching.


Edit: Found it!
Dan Birlew interview regarding TRSHE, Tomm Hulett too
 
Typographenia said:
Fungo and Rosseter are, unfortunately, the type of fans I see killing silent hill more than konami or another developer ever could. I completely and utterly understand the love they have for early silent hill and the desire to preserve that by discontinuing production on future silent hill entries. However, since that's not what Konami wants to do, it's these kinds of fans that are really vocal against things that retread old ground because it's so precious, but they lambast them for doing anything new because it betrays their preconceptions.
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But what have recent games done that's new. As they pointed out, SH:SM's most hyped feature was it's psych system. How exactly is that any different from what SH2 did? SH2 just did it without shoving it in your face. But it acts the exact same way. If you act suicidal then you get the In Water ending, if you avoid staying near Maria and do things to show concern for Mary you'll get the Leave ending ect.

I'm actually very much in favor of what's going on with Downpour from a concept perspective. To me they're actually taking the right approach by trying to craft a completely unique story with completely unique characters and enemies. In general many fans have wanted that to happen. They're tired of seeing other developers trying to imitate something that they'll never be able to duplicate.
 
SolidSnakex said:
But what have recent games done that's new. As they pointed out, SH:SM's most hyped feature was it's psych system. How exactly is that any different from what SH2 did? SH2 just did it without shoving it in your face. But it acts the exact same way. If you act suicidal then you get the In Water ending, if you avoid staying near Maria and do things to show concern for Mary you'll get the Leave ending ect.

I'm actually very much in favor of what's going on with Downpour from a concept perspective. To me they're actually taking the right approach by trying to craft a completely unique story with completely unique characters and enemies. In general many fans have wanted that to happen. They're tired of seeing other developers trying to imitate something that they'll never be able to duplicate.
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The complete removal of combat? That seemed kind of different after following a more combat focused Homecoming and weapon filled Origins.
Aiming in Homecoming was new to the silent hill series. As was the mirror portal system in origins
(ugh)
. I mean, there are obviously more than that, but the real changes most fans have against the new games are much more involved with the lore of the town.

I'm not saying that everything Fungo and these types of fans stand for are wrong. It's just that, for some reason, developers for silent hill games seem to take far too much value in what the fan community for silent hill says. I understand trying to reach a target audience, but when you're trying to reach an audience that has a large portion not wanting to be reached at all, it's going to be a bit messy.
The silent hill fan base is a very double edged sword. On one hand, there are some exceptional discussions, works (like this), and people that really help to enrich the experiences I have had with the games. Then there are the times where everyone goes crazy. I much prefer the former, but I try not to let the latter ruin my fun.


I'm extremely happy with what we've seen of Downpour thus far. I know a lot of people were up in arms over a forested area, but we saw evidence of that at the start of silent hill 2, for crying out loud.

I'm getting off point, but I really do want to see the series continue to change and grow (if it is to continue on). I don't want to have the same two games reproduced again and again, which is one of the things I feared with shattered memories' release. The series really needs to confidently take steps in new directions if it is ever to be successful at recapturing what hooked fans in the first place, but they continue to tip-toe around from one game to the next. Shattered Memories was the closest we've had to establishing a path for the games to go down, and I think it showed in the response of many fans. I saw more old-school fans praising SM than any other new game, to degrees I never would have expected.

Does every game need to be a SM clone now? Absolutely not, I think the diversity of tone, story, visuals, and gameplay (to a lesser extent) between each title is a major plus for the series. It's one of the reasons I love the SH games, and I would hate to see them give that up.
 
Typographenia said:
The complete removal of combat? That seemed kind of different after following a more combat focused Homecoming and weapon filled Origins.
Aiming in Homecoming was new to the silent hill series. As was the mirror portal system in origins
(ugh)
. I mean, there are obviously more than that, but the real changes most fans have against the new games are much more involved with the lore of the town.
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Yeah, that was certainly different. I think the problem with that is that many fans didn't think that the combat was an issue with the series. So dumping that was going to cause some controversy. But having a small amount of enemy variety (and laughably bad designs) also didn't help in that area. SH is very well known for its enemies so you can't come up short in that area.

I do think you hit the nail on the head as far as the lore goes though. You don't screw with that or you piss off fans. That's why many fans are irritated by the constant revisiting of 1 and 2 in certain ways. Just leave them alone. They're fine how they are.

Typographenia said:
I'm not saying that everything Fungo and these types of fans stand for are wrong. It's just that, for some reason, developers for silent hill games seem to take far too much value in what the fan community for silent hill says. I understand trying to reach a target audience, but when you're trying to reach an audience that has a large portion not wanting to be reached at all, it's going to be a bit messy.
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What fans are we talking about? Hardcore fans or the more casual fans of the series? I know hardcore fans don't want to see Pyramid Head pop up in other series, yet that still happens (he's already confirmed for the new SH movie). I think that developers just look at what the most popular game in the series is and they try to imitate it. And if they can't imitate it they just take it and dump it into their new game (PH) regardless of whether or not it makes sense. The end result is that we end up with another developer that refuses to make a game from scratch. The town is all you need to make a new SH. It's a perfect jumping off point. You don't need to rehash characters and enemies.
 
Can't stand the guy on the left constantly mugging and making awkward expressions for the camera. I might still sit through it. It's very interesting despite.
 
I remember mentioning this in one of the various Silent Hill threads we had several months ago. Anyway, I do enjoy the in-depth look at the games even if some of the humor is stupid. It's a great watch for just about any Silent Hill fan.
 
SolidSnakex said:
What fans are we talking about? Hardcore fans or the more casual fans of the series? I know hardcore fans don't want to see Pyramid Head pop up in other series, yet that still happens (he's already confirmed for the new SH movie). I think that developers just look at what the most popular game in the series is and they try to imitate it. And if they can't imitate it they just take it and dump it into their new game (PH) regardless of whether or not it makes sense. The end result is that we end up with another developer that refuses to make a game from scratch. The town is all you need to make a new SH. It's a perfect jumping off point. You don't need to rehash characters and enemies.
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In regards to the fans the developers pay attention to? It's really a mishmash of the major silent hill forums, but the standouts are going to be the most vocal ones which tend, more often than not, to be of the opinion that the series should have ended after 4.
I've seen Tomm Hulett posting on many places to talk with the forum members. Things like that are really cool, but at the same time, kind of worrying to see.
The casual fans are the most important fans at the moment. Konami needs to get them hooked like they have the long-term fans so we can get some renewed interest in the series.


I really wonder how much things like having pyramid head in homecoming were the decision of the developer and not from the higher ups at konami. With the silent hill movie in the public, the need to draw in potential fans is an obvious next step, so it would make perfect sense to add him in, from a marketing standpoint. I definitely didn't like seeing him used in another game, but I'm not one of those fans that went ballistic because of it. The lore is just really, really important to a lot of fans, and I'm sure there are many people in the SH community that could give and star trek or star wars fan a run for their money on knowledge in the series.



Silent Hill is at a really awkward state where they're trying to distance themselves from the older games by doing things like removing numbers from the titles in order to let new fans feel less afraid about entering the series, but they're still injecting too much from the old games to keep the long-time fans happy. It's like watching a disc or coin wobbling back and forth as it's inevitable stopping approaches.

I would imagine it would be much easier for konami/developers to approach the games if they didn't let the fanbase hold them back so much. By no means do I want them to walk all over pre-established elements in the series, but I wish we could get more risk taking again, which I hope downpour will deliver. Sadly, the chances of that (pushing the envelope) happening are increasingly slim since konami keeps dropping every development team after a game and sales have been declining. However, SM has helped renew my faith, and I'm really looking forward to see what homecoming has to offer.




Edit:
Here's something I posted elsewhere a few months back in regards to whether Shattered Memories was killing silent hill or not. I think it's relevant to the TRSHE videos.
Typographenia said:
I don't think this game is killing Silent Hill, and I don't think it negatively impacted the series at all.

I think each game does something different, some to greater or less extents, and any person could find something to like about them. Will that enjoyment lead them into researching the rest of the series and playing the rest of the games? Who knows? I did it that way.

I believe the fact that the silent hill series does have differences in their games that polarize the community is a good thing, because who wants to keep playing the same game over and over? Some people will try to find the silver lining, some people will hate it before it hits shelves, some people might be disappointed, and some people might legitimately love it.


I don't see any reason to suppose that any of the games are truly a nail in the coffin of the franchise. The attitudes of some of those in the silent hill fan base is far more disheartening than anything I've seen on those discs.
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Just watched the origins, homecoming, shattered memories sections.

Origins - pretty much spot on although some of their talk about story from sh1 is somewhat muddled and possibly not 100% accurate. I know that euro memo is huge item of contention. Kaufman and Lisa isn't so out there considering her drug abuse but her complete whore-makeover was horrible. Travis's screwed up history was totally unnecessary and just felt like an attempt to replicate SH2 at the last moment.

Homecoming - I agree with everything here but they get the story wrong and I thought Homecoming did a great job of shifting to the otherworld at unexpected times and the atmosphere in Alex's home was was pretty thick and creepy. Controls were awful. I don't know why they felt every button had to do something and the menu system was poor. I would have brought up the camera/aiming invert issue and how overpowered the knife was. Being able to get the ufo ending on a first playthrough was pretty stupid as well and I know that first hand.

Shattered Memories - Aside from the overly elitist BS at the end I agree with the complaints here as well. I would have brought up how the motion controls for throwing enemies off screws up the pointer and opens you up to more attacks.

The color book thing made me crack up though.

edit: Complaining about the excessive running and repeat dialogue in homecoming is also unfair since that happened a lot in sh and sh2.
 
Typographenia said:
In regards to the fans the developers pay attention to? It's really a mishmash of the major silent hill forums, but the standouts are going to be the most vocal ones which tend, more often than not, to be of the opinion that the series should have ended after 4.
I've seen Tomm Hulett posting on many places to talk with the forum members. Things like that are really cool, but at the same time, kind of worrying to see.
The casual fans are the most important fans at the moment. Konami needs to get them hooked like they have the long-term fans so we can get some renewed interest in the series.

I really wonder how much things like having pyramid head in homecoming were the decision of the developer and not from the higher ups at konami. With the silent hill movie in the public, the need to draw in potential fans is an obvious next step, so it would make perfect sense to add him in, from a marketing standpoint. I definitely didn't like seeing him used in another game, but I'm not one of those fans that went ballistic because of it. The lore is just really, really important to a lot of fans, and I'm sure there are many people in the SH community that could give and star trek or star wars fan a run for their money on knowledge in the series.
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Well we do know that he won't be in Downpour. That leads me to believe that it's the developers decision. It's not particularly surprising since nearly every new SH developer lists SH2 as their favorite. Which does make it strange since they don't know why PH is there and they seem to take little else from it from a storytelling perspective. SH2 is very subtle, and that really can't be said about the recent games. Things in recent games are more like "See, this is what's happening and we'll show it in detail to make sure you notice". Even SH3 went in that direction.

I think Downpour has the best chance of making fans pay attention again. Of course that doesn't mean that it will. There's still a lot that's unknown about it (lots of unknown story details and monster designs). They've said the right things so far by trying to create their own story and characters. So at least they're going to succeed or fail based on their own creation.

Back to he documentary, I definitely disagree with their opinion on Downpour and the occult aspect of SH2. The occult aspect may have been there in the background, but it was in no way the central aspect of the story like it was in SH1 and 3. The driving force in SH2's story was much more about fighting personal demons. That's a major reason why it clicked with people. And many fans of the series agree with Shatsky that the SH2 direction is much more appealing than the occult direction.
 
ElFly said:
I find interesting that a good portion of modern literary analysis is based on the "death of the author" concept, yet most of the videogame analysis is heavily based on whatever the developers say about the title. Even game guides are taken as gospel sometimes.

I think this is something we inherited from the comic / science fiction / fantasy communities.
Click to expand...

It is interesting, I agree. It is also uneven.

On one hand, you have people screaming bloody murder on the new Fallout or Silent Hill games and every other opinion on the matter refers to the elusive original intention.

On the other, I don't think I ever saw anyone criticize Burton's or Nolan's Batman films as not true to Bob Kane's vision. Granted, the author is ACTUALLY dead in this case, but still, interesting. Maybe it has to do with how long the franchise has been around?
 
Lime said:
*Note: if you haven't played Silent Hill 1, 2, 3 and 4, then you probably shouldn't watch this

So earlier today I stumbled upon a video series describing and analysing the Silent Hill series.

Click here to watch The Real Silent Hill Experience* (skip to Part 1 if you do not need the introduction)
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Man, I just watched the Shattered Memories parts, it's awful, we really didn't have the same kind of experience playing this game, but at least it makes me want to replay it...
 
I'm watching the videos now, but I do want to ask one thing.

People complain about SH controls? Even in SH1 where you had tank controls, you could still use R1 and L1 to strafe and move while shooting w/ auto-targeting, something you couldn't do in RE, and then SH2 adds 2D controls.
 
Metal Gear?! said:
Holy shit Part 6 is amazing. I've never read any of the Silent Hill comics and now I never want to. Ever.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I've never wanted something out of my collection so much. I friggin LOVE Silent Hill and these comics pretty much have nothing to do with the series, it feels.
 
Combichristoffersen said:
We can never be friends

Shattered Memories fucking blows. Good story though, but SH2 was still better
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the story telling. Silent Hill 2 has a decent story on paper, but the lame acting and awkard dialogue (amongst other things) led me to never once give two shits about what happened to anyone.

SH2 has a good story. it's just not told very well. it's the opposite of Half Life which has a terrible b movie plot of a story told brilliantly.

i felt no connection to James. he's presented as an absolute moron from the moment you turn on the game.

'I got a letter from my dead wife. But how am that possible? Dead wives can't write letters.'

no shit James.
 
KittenMaster said:
People complain about SH controls? Even in SH1 where you had tank controls, you could still use R1 and L1 to strafe and move while shooting w/ auto-targeting, something you couldn't do in RE, and then SH2 adds 2D controls.
Click to expand...
You'll find that the depths to which people can complain about things in silent hill is quite astounding. Not all of them are completely without merit, but it's really depressing at times.

That's one thing I don't understand about the controls. Why are there so many people that think sticking to tank controls would be a good thing? Yes, you can create a more cinematic use of camera with tank controls, but they're cumbersome and archaic. I say abandon them and develop a new method of control if there's such a desire for cinematic camera. Honestly, I didn't mind at all losing that in the last few games.
The opportunities for a truly enhanced moment with a cinematic camera in the older games were very few, and it seemed more like they were simply following what resident evil established.



Plagiarize, I agree with you on some level, but at the same time I really connected with the characters. I don't expect award winning vocal talent, but I thought that what SH2 had was quite adequate. It felt like they approached camp level quite often, but they reeled it back in just enough to still be taken seriously. Maybe it's just that 2 is one of my favorite games of all time and I cut it some slack, but I felt the delivery of James really matched up.
Well, other than his reaction to some things in game. Those could have been better at times.
Time to go stick my hand in a toilet!
 
plagiarize said:
the story telling. Silent Hill 2 has a decent story on paper, but the lame acting and awkard dialogue (amongst other things) led me to never once give two shits about what happened to anyone.

SH2 has a good story. it's just not told very well. it's the opposite of Half Life which has a terrible b movie plot of a story told brilliantly.

i felt no connection to James. he's presented as an absolute moron from the moment you turn on the game.

'I got a letter from my dead wife. But how am that possible? Dead wives can't write letters.'

no shit James.
Click to expand...

They actually touch upon this in one of the videos regarding Shattered Memories. It isn't the content of Silent Hill 2's story which makes it superb (it uses the cliché of a guy having amnesia). It is the way the story is told. Subtle, interpretative, complex, which all make the game a classic. Shattered Memories is incredibly straightforward and obvious in its mechanics that it is a far cry from the masterfully conveyed story of Silent Hill 2.
 
Watched through the Shattered Memories section. The ginger dude is fairly -- scratch that, incredibly -- obnoxious and self-important, and I only forgive the other guy 'cause he's kind of hot. Personalities aside, though, their critique of the game, if you can call it that, was incredibly shallow. Maybe they go into it in more depth in the final two 'Analysis' sections, but spoiler-phobia keeps me from watching those.
 
to me silent hill started as a b-series where it never really had a good story or overall identity. the second game kinda fixed that but completely went in a different direction with the fiction. seems like everything after that the developer just made shit up and said "sure" to fan questions in order to give the illusion there's really a solid fiction behind it.

shattered memories is the best when it comes to story telling and easily one of the best games in the series imo. though being a re-imagining it's kind of a stand alone title that doesnt really lend itself to a series.
 
big_z said:
though being a re-imagining it's kind of a stand alone title that doesnt really lend itself to a series.
Click to expand...
That's something I really enjoyed about Shattered Memories.

If you were new to the series it was a great game to pick up and not feel completely confused about what was going on. If you were a long time fan, it was great to see what was different from the original game, and even be tricked a little going off of our previous knowledge of the game. I thought it was a fantastic way of treating new and old fans well.
 
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