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Is it time for Microsoft to re-evaluate some of their policies?

W

wwm0nkey

Member
Here are a few of the stupid rules.

-Only disc based games can ever be put onto Games on Demand
-2GB limit on XBLA games
-4 MB update limit (should be unlimited if the game is HDD required)
-Strict external server rules
-No cross platform play between PS3 (technically FFXI does this though)
-Indie games limited to 150MB


What do you guys think? Is it time for Microsoft to get rid of some of these more than idiotic rules?
 
D

Deleted member 22576

Unconfirmed Member
Yeah, I look forward to the next iteration of XBL.
I expect the stupid rules about xbla/god/indie to be gone, but I highly doubt they'll change their policies regarding patches and cert though.
 
W

wwm0nkey

Member
Stoffinator said:
Wouldn't it be hard for them to change some of them? Just being not all of their systems have a HDD.
Click to expand...
The fact you can use USB sticks now and can easily find a cheap 8 gig one.....there really is no reason not to change these policies.
 
W

watership

Member
I don't know, some of them might be gratting and annoying to the end users and developers, but MS runs a tight ship. You know, for security and platform stability. They've been known to bend once they are assured the changes won't impact their platform, the XBLA size used to be TINY.
 
S

StuBurns

Banned
The Oddworld thing is wrong. You need to have self-published three disc based games to be considered a publisher, and only a publisher can go on XBLA. Any developer can get on there if they have a publisher (including MGS).

There are arguments for and against the other things, for the most part I think they're right. Is Steam good for Portal 2 on PS3? Probably, was Konami's system good for MGS4? No.
 
W

wwm0nkey

Member
StuBurns said:
The Oddworld thing is wrong. You need to have self-published three disc based games to be considered a publisher, and only a publisher can go on XBLA. Any developer can get on their if they have a publisher (including MGS).

There are arguments for and against the other things, for the most part I think they're right. Is Steam good for Portal 2 on PS3? Probably, was Konami's system good for MGS4? No.
Click to expand...
Ok removing that part now then, but the other stupid rules still apply :)
 
S

Sydle

Member
Keep the 4MB limit for updates, I don't want a situation like the PS3 and having to wait 20 minutes before I could actually play Uncharted or LBP.

The XBLA game size limit has increased significantly since 2005, it will continue to increase as more publishers show interest in digital distribution.

The other ones I don't care about.
 
P

Persona7

Banned
I think the original XBLA size limit was 50mb. They need to up it though.

Wario64 said:
RE4/CV HD are GoD. Are they disc based games?
Click to expand...

In Japan they are actually retail titles but I guess they found a loophole for different regions.
 
Whogie

Whogie

Member
Sure. Those don't really benefit us.
I believe, however, the 2GB limit for XBLA is a technical issue.

Also I heard only the first patch can be free or something like that...?
 
B

Barkley's Justice

Member
with all due respect, i'm constantly impressed by the amount of titles coming out on games on demand. i think MS is doing a great job getting that rolling.

i believe in the wake of apple's success with iOS, sony and ms will need to let go of some of the control they currently enjoy in the next generation. apple's system is a closed and regulated system, yes, but it's much more democratic than sony or ms'. developers will come to expect this. ms and sony would be wise to embrace some of the things apple has done for developers in regards to tools and publishing.

obviously, ms is way ahead of the pack in regards to the indie shop. they still have some work cut out for them.

i'd also like to see from sony & ms:

- day & date digital releases with disc releases

- a departure from the "definitive" $60 price model. not all games are $60 games. let it go.

- more democratized indie publishing for the people. incorporate the games better with your ecosystem (achievements, 'friends are now playing', etc)
 
W

wwm0nkey

Member
Whogie said:
Sure. Those don't really benefit us.
I believe, however, the 2GB limit for XBLA is a technical issue.

Also I heard only the first patch can be free or something like that...?
Click to expand...
Well the GoD games are like 6GB so not really a tech issue.

Also nope the patches can ONLY be 4MB and can not be free. Microsoft wanted Valve to charge for TF2 updates. EA I think stuck a deal with MS for Bad Company 2.
 
S

Sophia

Member
Paco said:
Keep the 4MB limit for updates, I don't want a situation like the PS3 and having to wait 20 minutes before I could actually play Uncharted or LBP.
Click to expand...

The 4MB limit shouldn't apply for games that require a Harddrive. Granted, it'd help if they didn't overprice the drives so much...
 
W

wwm0nkey

Member
zeelman said:
I'm pretty sure the latest Black Ops update is 12 MB. I don't think they enforce that rule anymore.
Click to expand...
I dont even know if it is still a rule or not to be honest, it seems all over the place.
 
V

Vibram6finger

Banned
wwm0nkey said:
Here are a few of the stupid rules.

-Only disc based games can ever be put onto Games on Demand
-2GB limit on XBLA games
-4 MB update limit (should be unlimited if the game is HDD required)
-Strict external server rules
-No cross platform play between PS3 (technically FFXI does this though)
-Indie games limited to 150MB


What do you guys think? Is it time for Microsoft to get rid of some of these more than idiotic rules?
Click to expand...

edit: should be 500mb. (thats what I ment)

Other than that, everything is pretty sound. If you wanna keep the service security tight then you have to be strict.
 
W

wwm0nkey

Member
Vibram6finger said:
500mb.

Other than that, everything is pretty sound. If you wanna keep the service security tight then you have to be strict.
Click to expand...
Nope its 150MB, that is the rule. It SHOULD be 500MB though.
 
W

wwm0nkey

Member
Marrshu said:
The 4MB limit shouldn't apply for games that require a Harddrive. Granted, it'd help if they didn't overprice the drives so much...
Click to expand...
Exactly Microsoft needs to slap a big label on games if they choose to be HDD required so people know it will require a HDD and will get big patches.
 
DiscoJer

DiscoJer

Member
Yes, but it should be an an all new system that comes with a big hard drive.

At this point in time I am not buying a new overpriced hard drive (or a new 360).
 
W

wwm0nkey

Member
DiscoJer said:
Yes, but it should be an an all new system that comes with a big hard drive.

At this point in time I am not buying a new overpriced hard drive (or a new 360).
Click to expand...
8GB USB stick...BOOM problem solved.
 
E

erpg

GAF parliamentarian
I think the charging for multiple updates needs to go, the 4MB limit seems to be pretty lax, as AC:Brotherhood has had 4 title updates around 5-9MB.

I'd just really want a title update for Reach to enable co-op and firefight without a HDD. :(
 
S

StuBurns

Banned
The patch size thing is odd, in the context of the way the system currently works I think it's good, but that's because the system is stupid on both consoles. The systems should log our library and download and patch games the second patches are out, not wait till we boot them. Steam had their shit in order for long enough the other two should have ripped them off.
 
S

shintoki

sparkle this bitch
Answer? Yes
Will they do it? Probably not

Their current limitations create the annoying divide of either being 15$ or 60$, maybe easing in another section of titles that wouldn't fit at full retail nor XBLA would be a start. Like on PC side, where titles like Mount and Blade or Natural Selection 2 would fit into...that 30-40$ range.
 
W

wwm0nkey

Member
Hopefully when I am at E3 I can run into the Xbox Live team again and talk to them about this and hopefully my 2 cents catches on with them.
 
F

fernoca

Member
StuBurns said:
The patch size thing is odd, in the context of the way the system currently works I think it's good, but that's because the system is stupid on both consoles. The systems should log our library and download and patch games the second patches are out, not wait till we boot them. Steam had their shit in order for long enough the other two should have ripped them off.
Click to expand...
PlayStation Plus has this feature. :p
Though it only downloads at the time you have it programmed to do so.
 
DiscoJer

DiscoJer

Member
wwm0nkey said:
8GB USB stick...BOOM problem solved.
Click to expand...

8 GB of more storage is nowhere near enough. I mean, that's nothing. My PSP had 16 gigs and is full - 20 (13) + 8 isn't going to cut it for a 360 if you do any serious sort of gaming on it.

I mean, damn, with Forza 3 you had to install a whole disc to the hard drive to get the extra cars and tracks. What is Forza 4 going to be like? 2 discs?
 
S

StuBurns

Banned
fernoca said:
PlayStation Plus has this feature. :p
Though it only downloads at the time you have it programmed to do so.
Click to expand...
Good point, Plus (at least in terms of patching/cloud saving) and Gold are bullshit too. Valve can do it better and for free? There is no excuse for this shit.
 
S

Sydle

Member
wwm0nkey said:
Its not exactly hard to hit that 150MB limit.
Click to expand...

They're meant to be smaller bite-sized games. They're also made by beginners who could probably fill that space with a bunch of junk. Microsoft has to store and serve all those games, and they probably don't make that much money from Indie games in the end.

I don't know, I'd rather see them get more strict on the quality of Indie games than increase the size limit.
 
W

wwm0nkey

Member
Phonomezer said:
Ugh, NO way. PS3 updates are diabolical.
Click to expand...
Well to be fair it seems PS3 downloads THEN installs everything super slow. The 503MB Gears of War 3 beta patch took like...5 to 10 minutes to be honest and it doesnt have that stupid.."installing...."BS.
 
E

erpg

GAF parliamentarian
wwm0nkey said:
Hopefully when I am at E3 I can run into the Xbox Live team again and talk to them about this and hopefully my 2 cents catches on with them.
Click to expand...
Kidnap 343i for me and get a title update so I can play firefight and co-op off of my flash drive.
 
W

wwm0nkey

Member
Lyphen said:
Kidnap 343i for me and get a title update so I can play firefight and co-op off of my flash drive.
Click to expand...
Fine, but only after I troll Frankie about Halo 2 XBLA :lol

Trent Strong said:
You have to call microsoft on the phone to cancel an xbox live subscription. That should be illegal.
Click to expand...
Nope, thats fixed now.
 
P

Phonomezer

Banned
StuBurns said:
Good point, Plus (at least in terms of patching/cloud saving) and Gold are bullshit too. Valve can do it better and for free? There is no excuse for this shit.
Click to expand...

Valve don't have hardware to support.
 
S

Sydle

Member
wwm0nkey said:
Well to be fair it seems PS3 downloads THEN installs everything super slow. The 503MB Gears of War 3 beta patch took like...5 to 10 minutes to be honest and it doesnt have that stupid.."installing...."BS.
Click to expand...

But if there are a series of patches that are all huge then it would take too long to get started. I was so excited when I got home with Uncharted only to be met with 20 minutes of downloading and installing before I could play it. I was pissed off by the time it started. Did the same shit with LBP. I want to jump into my games as fast as possible, required downloads are an obstruction.
 
W

wwm0nkey

Member
Paco said:
But if there are a series of patches that are all huge then it would take too long to get started. I was so excited when I got home with Uncharted only to be met with 20 minutes of downloading and installing before I could play it. I was pissed off by the time it started. Did the same shit with LBP. I want to jump into my games as fast as possible, required downloads are an obstruction.
Click to expand...
Again though PS3 just has a slow DL speed it seems also the PS3 installs every patch where is when the 360 is done with the DL, its just done.
 
W

wwm0nkey

Member
Paco said:
They're meant to be smaller bite-sized games. They're also made by beginners who could probably fill that space with a bunch of junk. Microsoft has to store and serve all those games, and they probably don't make that much money from Indie games in the end.

I don't know, I'd rather see them get more strict on the quality of Indie games than increase the size limit.
Click to expand...
The size limits what can come to the service though and moderating the quality of the games defeats the whole purpose.
 
P

Phonomezer

Banned
wwm0nkey said:
Well to be fair it seems PS3 downloads THEN installs everything super slow. The 503MB Gears of War 3 beta patch took like...5 to 10 minutes to be honest and it doesnt have that stupid.."installing...."BS.
Click to expand...

Took me less than 5 minutes to d/l the Gears 3 beta, then I was good to go.

Before I (finally) got around to playing Uncharted 2 last year I had to download almost 900 MB worth of updates in various increments - what the hell? Then it had to install. I wasn't impressed.

This is why I prefer the 4MB limit on 360 games. I wish Sony would enforce a similar rule.
 
W

wwm0nkey

Member
Phonomezer said:
Took me less than 5 minutes to d/l the Gears 3 beta, then I was good to go.

Before I (finally) got around to playing Uncharted 2 last year I had to download almost 900 MB worth of updates in various increments - what the hell? Then it had to install. I wasn't impressed.

This is why I prefer the 4MB limit on 360 games. I wish Sony would enforce a similar rule.
Click to expand...
See though the 360 seems to just be faster at DLing and doesnt do the install stuff, so its not like this will take as long as the god awful PS3 updates.
 
S

Sophia

Member
wwm0nkey said:
Nope, thats fixed now.
Click to expand...

They removed that feature from the site, actually. So you have to call them up again. It's actually my least favorite thing about Xbox Live. I dread reactivating by card because I'll forget to call.
 
S

Sydle

Member
wwm0nkey said:
The size limits what can come to the service though and moderating the quality of the games defeats the whole purpose.
Click to expand...

Yes, I'd rather they limit what can come to service by enforcing refining what's already avaiable. Make developers, even though they're beginners, try just a little harder for my money.

I was a regular shopper of the Indie channel, with around 20 games purchase. That is, until it became too time consuming to sift through all the garbage and clones. Can't remember the last time I bought anything off of it and I have no desire to go back when I have better chances of finding something worthwhile to spend points on in the GoD channel or the XBLA channel.
 
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