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Is the Bible still relevant today (UK Panel Discussion)

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M

Mr.Squirrel

Tom
Part 1 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFpCYvL23YA

Part 2 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7MJLEc8Vi8

Part 3 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePpC1G1Jr30

Part 4 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7J3ljiODFQ

Enjoy GAF!
popcorn.gif
 
M

MorisUkunRasik

Member
To answer the topic. The basics like be kind, don't steal and don't murder will always be relevant. Now, whether or not you need a book to tell you that....
 
U

ultron87

Member
If you recognize that it's an allegory and not meant to be literal, then sure.

Also recognize that it was written by many different writers for many different purposes.
 
A

Always-honest

Banned
Morals, yes. And some stories/ conflicts/ are timeless basicly. Like Shakespeare
Unfortunately the influence of the religions that live by the bible is still way too big.

And ofcourse, empathy or kindness are not religious inventions.
 
D

DECK'ARD

The Amiga Brotherhood
I prefer the one sentence version of the Bible:

"Treat people as you'd want to be treated"

Can do without the rest.
 
P

Parl

Member
Always-honest said:
Morals, yes.
Unfortunately the influence of the religions that live by the bible is still way too big.

And ofcourse, empathy or kindness are not religious inventions.
Click to expand...
Only some though.
 
D

DECK'ARD

The Amiga Brotherhood
Always-honest said:
That's the actual quote? haha, no way.
But i live by that rule.
Click to expand...

Yeah same here.

My parents are quite religious, but that's the only message they said I should take from the Bible and live my life by that.
 
D

Davedough

Member
Always-honest said:
Morals, yes. And some stories/ conflicts/ are timeless basicly. Like Shakespeare
Unfortunately the influence of the religions that live by the bible is still way too big.

And ofcourse, empathy or kindness are not religious inventions.
Click to expand...

So, me being atheistic and having read the bible cover to cover only to feel that its a convoluted mess of contradiction means that I'm not a moral person because I dont subscribe to it?

I fancy myself quite moral, can honestly tell right from wrong and rather understanding of my fellow man in this world. I dont need scripture translated from a dead language to tell me how to lead a just life.
 
M

MrHicks

Banned
"treat other as you wanna be treated" is kinda scary for machochists (spelling?)
the people who enjoy pain

by that rule they should go cause pain to others hehe
 
X

xelios

Universal Access can be found under System Preferences
It's very relevant, because so many people find it relevant.
 
F

Foxy Fox 39

Banned
Davedough said:
So, me being atheistic and having read the bible cover to cover only to feel that its a convoluted mess of contradiction means that I'm not a moral person because I dont subscribe to it?

I fancy myself quite moral, can honestly tell right from wrong and rather understanding of my fellow man in this world. I dont need scripture translated from a dead language to tell me how to lead a just life.
Click to expand...
Nah. It doesn't. You're right in that regard...But FYI reading the Bible cover to cover doesn't really mean anything.
 
A

Always-honest

Banned
Davedough said:
So, me being atheistic and having read the bible cover to cover only to feel that its a convoluted mess of contradiction means that I'm not a moral person because I dont subscribe to it?

I fancy myself quite moral, can honestly tell right from wrong and rather understanding of my fellow man in this world. I dont need scripture translated from a dead language to tell me how to lead a just life.
Click to expand...
No, where do i say that?.
In the countries where the bible was leading for hundreds of years, they still live by a lot of the same morals. What's so hard to understand?

And right and wrong??.. i think you're more in to the bible than you think.

Parl said:
Only some though.
Click to expand...
yup. And most of them are fine to help a large amount of people live together in relative harmony..
 
O

Orayn

Member
Is it relevant still? Very yes. Should it be? No more than the Odyssey, Edda, Bhagavad-Gita, Quran, or Book of Mormon, in this nonbeliever's honest opinion.
More people need to take religious texts in context and compare them to similar works.
 
D

Davedough

Member
Foxy Fox 39 said:
Nah. It doesn't. You're right in that regard...But FYI reading the Bible cover to cover doesn't really mean anything.
Click to expand...

I feel it does. In my early 20s, I took a personal quest, if you will, to find out why the majority of the planet feels religion has a place in their daily life, yet I didn't. Being raised by two science-minded parents, I wasn't privy to a life that has dedicated itself to faith. I've read the bible, parts of the Torrah and pieces of the Quoran to help try and understand. None helped me find any sort of answer I was looking for. I personally believe it's quite meaningful in my own personal viewpoint as to whether or not the bible is relevant today in regards to always-honest's post on employing morals to an individual.
 
M

Mortrialus

Banned
Foxy Fox 39 said:
Nah. It doesn't. You're right in that regard...But FYI reading the Bible cover to cover doesn't really mean anything.
Click to expand...

Actually understanding what it has to say should be a huge determining factor in trusting it as any kind of moral authority or as any kind of authority on the super natural. That he has actually completely read the Bible puts him at a better understanding of and a better position of judging its teachings than most Christians, most of whom never read the damn thing.
 
X

xelios

Universal Access can be found under System Preferences
Teh Hamburglar said:
I'd say the religious texts should be the beginning of faith, not the end-all, be-all of it.
Click to expand...


It already works that way. That's often times the problem.
 
T

TacticalFox88

Banned
The Bible is revelant to about a billion people on this planet. The question they should ask is SHOULD it still be relevant, and the answer to that is a very obvious no.
 
O

Orayn

Member
xelios said:
It already works that way. That's often times the problem.
Click to expand...
It's a double-edged sword. Not strictly adhering to the source material lets believers discard the more, er, negative aspects of the original religion, but it also allows them to branch into entirely new domains of crazy. Buffet-style beliefs for the win/lose?
 
E

Escape Goat

Member
xelios said:
It already works that way. That's often times the problem.
Click to expand...


Are you sure? Most of the extremists take a literal approach to the text which is the opposite of what I was saying. A person should read the Bible and use it as a guide post, not a hard and fast rule book. People shouldn't be sheep and accept their church's views because they say so. Religion, as I understand it, is a personal relationship between you and Jesus Christ/God. don't wait for some guy in a white robe to dictate the terms of that relationship to you.
 
M

Mgoblue201

Won't stop picking the right nation
Biblical morality is inexorably tied to the framework upon which that morality is based: obedience to god. You cannot separate all the things you like about that morality from its prescription, because to simply reduce it all down to the golden rule is a huge misrepresentation of what the Bible actually says.
 
T

TheHeretic

Banned
Teh Hamburglar said:
Are you sure? Most of the extremists take a literal approach to the text which is the opposite of what I was saying. A person should read the Bible and use it as a guide post, not a hard and fast rule book. People shouldn't be sheep and accept their church's views because they say so. Religion, as I understand it, is a personal relationship between you and Jesus Christ/God. don't wait for some guy in a white robe to dictate the terms of that relationship to you.
Click to expand...

Extremists do not necessarily rely on literalism to interpret their holy book, rather they take certain portions or interpretations more seriously than most which leads to extreme behavior.

The difference between a Sufi and a Salfari Jihadist isn't the seriousness with which they take specific instructions from the Koran, but really what they take from the Koran.
 
P

Parl

Member
Always-honest said:
yup. And most of them are fine to help a large amount of people live together in relative harmony..
Click to expand...
Oh make no mistake, if somebody is capable of cherry-picking the Bible for what to live by, they already have a good understanding of a right and wrong, so help isn't needed here.

I don't think the majority are fundamentally bad people, in need of the teachings of the Bible to be a good person, which your statement may imply. Good parenting is a billions times better than the Bible for this purpose. Good science a billion times better for understanding the world, and good medicine a billion times better for healing and health. Progress has given us much better alternatives since our first and worst attempts at these fields.
 
M

Mortrialus

Banned
Wow. I'm half way through the first part and I am actually quite impressed by the panel and the moderator. The first speaker, Francesca Stavrakopoulou was very surprising in how well spoken and intelligent she was. I hadn't heard of her prior to this. Why can't we get these types of intelligent, mature debates on American television?
 
O

Orayn

Member
Mortrialus said:
Why can't we get these types of intelligent, mature debates on American television?
Click to expand...
Because people expect more ad hominem attacks and Fox-News-grade controversy, sadly.
 
D

DevelopmentArrested

Banned
Mgoblue201 said:
Biblical morality is inexorably tied to the framework upon which that morality is based: obedience to god. You cannot separate all the things you like about that morality from its prescription, because to simply reduce it all down to the golden rule is a huge misrepresentation of what the Bible actually says.
Click to expand...
Because Nothing says morality like the mass rape of children and subsequent cover-up by the head of the Church. Whooo
 
B

BocoDragon

or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
The Bible is basically a chain letter which has been passed on for far too long.. And its origin lies with people who have no more insight on morality or spirituality than the average Joe reading this post right now.
 
A

anonnumber6

Banned
Mortrialus said:
Wow. I'm half way through the first part and I am actually quite impressed by the panel and the moderator. The first speaker, Francesca Stavrakopoulou was very surprising in how well spoken and intelligent she was. I hadn't heard of her prior to this. Why can't we get these types of intelligent, mature debates on American television?
Click to expand...
Intelligent and mature isn't what I would describe the The Big Question as, I think this was the episode that the atheist feminist called Christians idiots and the audience laughed at the Muslim Imam.
 
M

Manmademan

Member
Davedough said:
I feel it does. In my early 20s, I took a personal quest, if you will, to find out why the majority of the planet feels religion has a place in their daily life, yet I didn't. Being raised by two science-minded parents, I wasn't privy to a life that has dedicated itself to faith. I've read the bible, parts of the Torrah and pieces of the Quoran to help try and understand. None helped me find any sort of answer I was looking for. I personally believe it's quite meaningful in my own personal viewpoint as to whether or not the bible is relevant today in regards to always-honest's post on employing morals to an individual.
Click to expand...

As a fellow atheist, you missed the point entirely. Most protestants never give the bible more than a cursory glance. Catholics didn't read it at all until VERY recently (historically speaking), and church services were performed in a dead language no one spoke.

It's not the book that makes religion meaningful to them, a large part of the time it's the traditions and sense of community built up around the church. Just reading the bible or parts of the torah isn't going to help you understand that.
 
U

Ushojax

Should probably not trust the 7-11 security cameras quite so much
There are a few worthy morals in there but they are wrapped up in a bunch of misogynistic, sadistic and unscientific claptrap so as a whole I'd say no. I'd rather my kid watched Sesame Street than read the Bible.
 
M

Mortrialus

Banned
anonnumber6 said:
Intelligent and mature isn't what I would describe the The Big Question as, I think this was the episode that the atheist feminist called Christians idiots and the audience laughed at the Muslim Imam.
Click to expand...

I'm about the finished with part 2. As I said, I hadn't heard of this show prior to this. If it isn't always operating at this quality that is a shame. I still think this panel is quite good.
 
A

anonnumber6

Banned
Mortrialus said:
I'm about the finished with part 2. As I said, I hadn't heard of this show prior to this. If it isn't always operating at this quality that is a shame. I still think this panel is quite good.
Click to expand...
I do have to say that some of the guests they have at times are quite good, I think a couple of weeks ago Richard Dawkins made an appearance.
 
C

Chinner

Banned
Urgh, The Big Question is such sensationalist shit used by people just to get their face out there in the public domain.
 
O

Orayn

Member
bengraven said:
The Bible was hardly revolutionary by stating: "don't kill, don't steal, don't hurt your neighbor".
Click to expand...
This point is very hard to deliver to people who assume that the general populace would be all rapey-killy if not for religion.
 
G

Guardian Bob

Member
Yes. Many people find inner peace and use the bible/religion to get their lives back on track if they have been suffering from depression. It has happened to people I know. Their lives were terrible and you could tell they were unhappy. The bible helped them because it gave them a sense that someone loves and will always love them.
 
R

Raist

Banned
Regarding the views on the natural world? No, of course.
For moral standards? Yeah, but not all of them and they're hardly unique to the bible anyways.
 
B

Buckethead

Banned
Yes, very.

Unfortunately the bits about community, accountability, and sacrifice will be lost on people who are looking to simply dismiss it due to the "magic" elements of the book because people love skating out on examining themselves and changing their character.
 
M

Mgoblue201

Won't stop picking the right nation
DevelopmentArrested said:
Because Nothing says morality like the mass rape of children and subsequent cover-up by the head of the Church. Whooo
Click to expand...
Obviously the hippies are to blame.

I watched the first part, but I'm not terribly impressed. Even Dawkins looks like he's on cruise control. Michael Nazir-Ali does make the distinction between prescription and description, which many atheists miss, but it's an almost insignificant distinction, given all of the nasty things that god does and condones. He also makes the incredibly revolutionary argument that the Bible may contain some truth because at one point the Israelites existed and did some things and the Caananites at one point did some things and worshiped some gods and then disappeared. Thank you for that.
 
B

bonesmccoy

Banned
I can't watch the videos, so I'll just toss out my $0.02:

- Yes, the Bible is relevant, inasmuch as it was and remains one of the key pillars of Western Civilization.
- Yes, the Bible is relevant, inasmuch as it still provokes intense debate within Western countries.
- Yes, the Bible is relevant, inasmuch as Christianity continues to grow world-wide.
 
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