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What? LTTP: MASS EFFECT is evolving!

water_wendi

Water is not wet!
Congratulations! Your LTTP: MASS EFFECT has evolved into RTTP: STAR CONTROL 2!

This sums up my last two weeks of playing Mass Effect. i just met a Reaper on Virmire and the comparison is just too much. i cant enjoy what little there is to enjoy in ME1 because i keep being reminded of Star Control 2. Worse still, the reminders show an incompetence because multi-million dollar budgets and huge dev teams cannot outdo what two guys did in six months seclusion.

i remember before ME1 launched i watched all those videos of the game and was hyped beyond belief. Any demonstration of the Galactic Map, zooming in and out, reminded me so much of SC2. "This is fantastic," i remember telling myself. "The template for fun is already there. Surely all they have to do is follow the outline of whats come before." Little did i know the disappointment i would feel when i finally bought ME.

Things at first seemed not great but i tricked myself into thinking things would fix itself later in the game. i rationalized away things i disliked like poor RPG gameplay by convincing myself that Star Control 2 wasnt an RPG either. SC2 didnt need to the RPG trappings of Starflight to remain fun, so maybe their absence in ME wont matter either. "When i got to the Galactic Map, all would be made better." How could i have known how wrong i was?

After i joined the Interstellar Secret Police, the main aspiration for humanity a couple hundred years from now, i was granted access to the solution to the problem i had with ME. Exploration would be the Omni-Gel for my broken expectations so i immediately set off exploring the galaxy that Bioware crafted. Twenty minutes later i uninstalled the game.


My latest foray into the universe of Mass Effect

Fast forward years until a couple weeks ago. i decided to give the game another shot. i avoided all side-missions or exploration and just made my way through. i was determined to finish the game. Then i hit Virmire and the Reaper. i always figured the Reapers to be similar to the Eternal Ones from Star Control 3 but now i was being confronted by another reminder of Star Control 2. Reapers look and sound like Korh-Ah. This video here illustrates the similar color scheme and voice between the two: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sh6PGp9G2W8

Now you might question why this is an issue. If its good enough for Star Control, why not Mass Effect? The answer is simple. Bioware has completely bungled anything interesting about the Reapers in comparison to the Korh-Ah.

The Korh-Ah have a very good reason for wanting to destroy other life in Star Control 2. They are not generic bad guys. There are cultural and historical reasons you learn about during the course of the game that paint both factions of the Ur-Quan as sympathetic villains. They start off cookie cutter villains but quickly morph into a complex and deep alien menace.

From checking a walkthrough i can see im pretty much at the end of ME and there is nothing i know about Reapers other than indoctrination and a incomprehensible "vision" that looks to be a cross between a Saw movie and some long lost Halo numbered VHS in NINs discography.



Heres some other issues i have with Mass Effect other than the similarities to Star Control:


- Interstellar Gestapo. i almost threw up in my mouth when i was made a Spectre. There was a gigantic opportunity missed by not confronting the Secret Police of the Mass Effect universe. There are only two real references to the hypocrisy of the Spectre.. the Turian ambassadors throwaway comment and that one reporter who attempts to snare you in a Gotcha Interview /Palin wink!

- No real choices. This has been a Bioware problem for a bit. Again this links to the missed opportunity listed above. Instead of having interesting outcomes linked to a Paragon character acknowledging that Spectres might not be the best thing for humanity to aspire to, we get Jack Bauer in space where violence is really the only option.

- Alien races that arent really that alien. Now, there are some good things that Bioware has done and its hard to fault them because the well for sci-fi is one almost all stories draw from. That being said i think if there is no difference in interaction between alien cultures dont choose to use only exposition to interact with them like Star Control or Starflight (you interact but only via view screen and not "in person" like in ME). If any game designers read this, you are not constrained in the manner of sci-fi TV like Star Trek. You dont have to use human actors modified with make-up as your base. You have a blank slate. Go wild, please.


Similarities between Mass Effect and Star Control

While writing this post i started looking to see what others have said about the glaring similarities between the two. At first i was going to write at length on it but i discovered that others had already done that for me.

From Naylor at Vidgamas article Head2Head: Mass Effect vs. Star Control II

The overall story arc of Mass Effect **SPOILER ALERT FOR A 17 MONTH OLD GAME** is that a lone wolf human must save the galaxy and all its inhabitants from total annihilation by an ancient alien species that returns every once in a while to kill all sentient life. The overall story arc for Star Control II **SPOILER ALERT FOR A 17 YEAR OLD GAME** is that a lone wolf human must save the galaxy and all its inhabitants from total annihilation by an ancient alien species that returns every once in a while to kill all sentient life. And that’s just the beginning. Through our two stories, you, the hero, must ally yourself with alien species; travel to all edges of the galaxy; explore uninhabited worlds gathering minerals and ancient artifacts; follow clues left behind by a wiser, yet extinct race; sleep with a hot blue alien while the camera cuts to black (will get back to that later); and ultimately destroy a Saw-clown-sounding megalomaniacal alien hell bent on wiping out all life in the galaxy.

i wanted to bold passages of that paragraph but really the whole thing needs to be highlighted. i think thats about all that needs to be said really.

Any thoughts?
 

Mindlog

Member
water_wendi said:
- Interstellar Gestapo. i almost threw up in my mouth when i was made a Spectre. There was a gigantic opportunity missed by not confronting the Secret Police of the Mass Effect universe. There are only two real references to the hypocrisy of the Spectre.. the Turian ambassadors throwaway comment and that one reporter who attempts to snare you in a Gotcha Interview /Palin wink!
and garrus
and jenkins
and pallin

and really gaming has been all downhill since Starflight on the Commodore 64
 
This sums up my last two weeks of playing Mass Effect. i just met a Reaper on Virmire and the comparison is just too much. i cant enjoy what little there is to enjoy in ME1 because i keep being reminded of Star Control 2. Worse still, the reminders show an incompetence because multi-million dollar budgets and huge dev teams cannot outdo what two guys did in six months seclusion.

The Reapers are cribbing pretty hard from the Inhibitors / Wolves in Alastair Reynold's Revelation Space series. Their motivation goes off the deep end in ME2 though, so they're way dumber.
 
K

kittens

Unconfirmed Member
This may be one of my favorite threads in my six years reading GAF.
 

water_wendi

Water is not wet!
Mindlog said:
and garrus
and jenkins
and pallin

and really gaming has been all downhill since Starflight on the Commodore 64
Its entirely possible i just forgot them so ill just take your word for it.

And yes Starflight was awesome. Have you played the Starflight: The Lost Colony project that released a few weeks ago? It seems pretty good but ive been caught up in ME and SC2.

ThoseDeafMutes said:
The Reapers are cribbing pretty hard from the Inhibitors / Wolves in Alastair Reynold's Revelation Space series. Their motivation goes off the deep end in ME2 though, so they're way dumber.
i dont know what the motivation is but ill be surprised if its better than SC3s reasoning for the Eternal Ones. i know, without a doubt, that it cannot be better than the justification that the Korh-Ah (and Kzer-Za) have for wiping out all life. If Bioware pulls something out in the last remaining hours of ME1 my mind will be blown so hard i think i would fall over dead on the keyboard.
 
water_wendi said:
i dont know what the motivation is but ill be surprised if its better than SC3s reasoning for the Eternal Ones. i know, without a doubt, that it cannot be better than the justification that the Korh-Ah (and Kzer-Za) have for wiping out all life. If Bioware pulls something out in the last remaining hours of ME1 my mind will be blown so hard i think i would fall over dead on the keyboard.

I dunno, I didn't think Star Control 2 villain motivations were all that great:

Aren't they eating the "energy" of sentient beings to stop their "evolution" into weird ascended beings? That's silly on many levels.

As it happens, the motivations we've gleamed from ME2 make the Reapers out to be a bunch of morons, and it would take a miracle to save them from being forever remembered as a laughing stock in ME3.
 

Narag

Member
ThoseDeafMutes said:
I dunno, I didn't think Star Control 2 villain motivations were all that great:

Aren't they eating the "energy" of sentient beings to stop their "evolution" into weird ascended beings? That's silly on many levels.

As it happens, the motivations we've gleamed from ME2 make the Reapers out to be a bunch of morons, and it would take a miracle to save them from being forever remembered as a laughing stock in ME3.

That's SC3 according to a poster in the head2head article. He delves into the SC2 stuff in the same comment.
http://www.vidgama.com/2009/04/head-to-head-mass-effect-vs-star-control-ii/#comment-40
 

water_wendi

Water is not wet!
ThoseDeafMutes said:
I dunno, I didn't think Star Control 2 villain motivations were all that great:

Aren't they eating the "energy" of sentient beings to stop their "evolution" into weird ascended beings? That's silly on many levels.

As it happens, the motivations we've gleamed from ME2 make the Reapers out to be a bunch of morons, and it would take a miracle to save them from being forever remembered as a laughing stock in ME3.
Thats Star Control 3. i thought a couple things about it had merit. Like the
Eternal Ones being afraid to let go of the physical world and become energy. i remember it reminding me of V'ger at the time.

Star Control 2 story was one of culture. You had these two ideological philosophies on
how to prevent the possibility for enslavement of their species from ever happening again.
It was very compelling to not have "bad guys" who want to kill "just 'cause." Its at least 100 times greyer than any of the black and white stuff thats been present in Biowares modern efforts.

And bonus points for the cultural reasons and not something as tired as some biological reason (see Star Control 3).
 
Narag said:
That's SC3 according to a poster in the head2head article. He delves into the SC2 stuff in the same comment.
http://www.vidgama.com/2009/04/head-to-head-mass-effect-vs-star-control-ii/#comment-40

The comparisons he makes are pretty filmsy there, to be honest. "The bad guys are ancient evils that periodically wipe out life" is the most solid comparison (and as the comment notes, wasn't even SC2 to begin with), the rest are stuff like "the bad guys have tentacles", "the bad guys have a deep voice", "a space themed game has a map of the galaxy that lets you go places". The Prothean artefact hunt vs the Precursor artefact hunt are pretty much the opposite of each other, even leaving aside the obvious fact that this is just a SciFi flavoring of the Fantasy Quest for Ancient Artefacts of Great Power. In ME it's the bad guys hunting them down to use it as a tool to destroy life, not Shepard hunting it down to save the galaxy (you are trying to get there first only so you can deny it to the villain). The existence of Precursor aliens of great power that left artefacts around is present in something like 50% of all Space Opera.
 

Darkmakaimura

Can You Imagine What SureAI Is Going To Do With Garfield?
One of the reasons I love the ME series so much is because it did remind me of Star Control 2. As far as similarities, eh. The Korh-Ah sounds like Eli Roth when he was narrator for Thanksgiving.

Reapers are scarier, bigger, more individualistic Borg.

MaddenNFL64 said:
Mass Effect was the shit.

No idea about Star Control 2.

All I got.
I echo Narag. Do yourself a favor and download it. Fantastic game!
 

water_wendi

Water is not wet!
Narag said:
That's SC3 according to a poster in the head2head article. He delves into the SC2 stuff in the same comment.
http://www.vidgama.com/2009/04/head-to-head-mass-effect-vs-star-control-ii/#comment-40
i understand what that poster is saying but although he is technically correct, he is also technically wrong. What im trying to say is that the story of SC3 is pretty much the story of SC2. Let me break down that original article paragraph.

The overall story arc for Star Control II **SPOILER ALERT FOR A 17 YEAR OLD GAME** is that a lone wolf human must save the galaxy and all its inhabitants from total annihilation by an ancient alien species that returns every once in a while to kill all sentient life.
Even though the comment by Santiago is right they are forgetting that this also applies to Star Control 2. Spoilers here..
The events happening in Star Control 2 are the same thing that has happened thousands of years prior in The First Doctrinal War. The remaining members of the Sentient Milieu were wiped out to protect the Ur-Quan. Whats taking place in Star Control 2 is the re-emergence of Korh-ah Eternal Doctrine and thus another cleansing of known sentient life is loosed on the galaxy.

The plots of the three games are all about the same thing, namely:
a lone wolf human must save the galaxy and all its inhabitants from total annihilation by an ancient alien species that returns every once in a while to kill all sentient life.
Even though the reasons for wiping out all life are different, and the aliens doing this genocide across these games are different, the story is essentially the same.


edit:
ThoseDeafMutes said:
The comparisons he makes are pretty filmsy there, to be honest. "The bad guys are ancient evils that periodically wipe out life" is the most solid comparison (and as the comment notes, wasn't even SC2 to begin with),
This isnt entirely correct, imo.

the rest are stuff like "the bad guys have tentacles", "the bad guys have a deep voice",
The tentacles and the red/black color theme and the very close voice work suggest more than just coincidence. Even if it wasnt a conscious decision, there is definitely influence there. Its not as close as the Baldurs Gate music stolen from Lifeforces score but its so in your face that i laughed when Sovereign spoke.

The Prothean artefact hunt vs the Precursor artefact hunt are pretty much the opposite of each other, even leaving aside the obvious fact that this is just a SciFi flavoring of the Fantasy Quest for Ancient Artefacts of Great Power. In ME it's the bad guys hunting them down to use it as a tool to destroy life, not Shepard hunting it down to save the galaxy (you are trying to get there first only so you can deny it to the villain).
In Star Control 2 the antagonists already have the ultimate Ancient Artifacts of Great Power. Its not so much a race to get artifacts as it is the similarities between Precursors and Protheans. Both are races that are seemingly extinct (i use seemingly because the ME3 previews talked about a Prothean companion). Both races have enigmatically disappeared due to Ancient Galactic Threat (this right here is what ties the SC3 story more closely to ME than the SC2 story even though the plot of the both SC games is essentially the same).

The existence of Precursor aliens of great power that left artefacts around is present in something like 50% of all Space Opera.
This is true. But these similarities, even though some are present in the majority of sci-fi, are so prevalent and numerous that they constantly remind me that i can be playing a better game than ME.
 
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