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The great ATI/AMD Radeon stuttering in fullscreen thread - does a solution exist?

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dark10x

Digital Foundry pixel pusher
So I've been struggling with an obscure performance issue the likes of which has received very little coverage around the net. I've searched high and low across forums and I've yet to uncover a solution to this problem. The few places where it goes mentioned fail to deliver a solution. Perhaps there IS no solution. Regardless, I'd love to get a little more insight into this matter and I'm hoping the PC master race may have some thoughts on the matter.

What is this problem? Frame stuttering with a few specific games while running in fullscreen mode despite a report of 60 fps. What makes this so strange? When you switch to WINDOWED mode these issues immediately disappear and performance is perfect. The problem will occur regardless of settings. 800x600 with min details and 1920x1080 with max details will both deliver identical results. FRAPS and other framerate counters claim 60 fps but, to my eye, there is obvious frame skipping occurring that damages the image. Always eliminated in windowed mode.

I can confirm that Mafia II, Duke Nukem Forever (with shadows enabled), GTAIV, and a few other games all suffer from this problem. So, it's not really widespread, but I've grown annoyed with it appearing from time to time. With Mafia II I could at least select 1080p in window mode and enable overscan on my TV to appear fullscreen. With Duke, windowed mode maxed out at 1600x900. :\

Thoughts? I've tried everything.
 
I noticed it too. I always thought it was me pushing my 6870 to the limit! Would triple buffering make a difference here?
 
By chance are you overclocking?

Disable overdrive and try out stock clock settings.

I also remember my 5770 having weird flickering/ refresh rate issues when running overdrive or dual monitors.
 
I've been having this issue on every game I play: WoW, Borderlands, Arkham Asylum, Crysis... I haven't seen enough of this around to think it was systemic before. I thought maybe my new babby HD 5870 was puking itself. Maybe it's not now...
 
Of note, I'm using triple buffering, I've tried stock speeds and overclocking, and I use dual monitors (one monitor upstairs, the second downstairs) in duplicate mode. Problem exists in single display mode as well, however.

keeblerdrow said:
I've been having this issue on every game I play: WoW, Borderlands, Arkham Asylum, Crysis... I haven't seen enough of this around to think it was systemic before. I thought maybe my new babby HD 5870 was puking itself. Maybe it's not now...
Click to expand...
Interesting, I do not have this issue with Borderlands, Batman, or Crysis.
 
Marrshu said:
5670 here, I've had this problem with select games. Noticably, it happens in WoW if I run fullscreen mode.
Click to expand...
I experienced this with WoW as well, but I disabled the "Windows Event Log" as suggested by someone and that problem was solved. It had no effect on any other game, however.
 
Occurred with Fallout: New Vegas & my 5770. I blamed the engine & gave up playing it. I noticed several patches were released over the past few months, so I may go back and check to see if it stutters still.

Also, can we start posting driver versions? Maybe we'll see a pattern emerge.

I was using 10.11 w/ Fallout: NV.
 
dark10x said:
I experienced this with WoW as well, but I disabled the "Windows Event Log" as suggested by someone and that problem was solved. It had no effect on any other game, however.
Click to expand...

I'll give it a shot then the next time I need Fullscreen mode's performance. I've gotten used to playing in Maximized Windowed. Lower framerate in raids, but I can alt+tab to look up info instantly.
 
I have noticed this problem with some games. Do you think it could be an issue with something else like your, HDD, RAM, or CPU? Or maybe that the video card is not getting good enough cooling?
 
I have never noticed this and I've been on a 4850 and now a 6970. Maybe i'm just bad and fail to notice it.

I will try mafia 2 though since i did pick that up in the steam sale.
 
SapientWolf said:
I only have this issue with Magicka.
Click to expand...
Force vsync and triple buffering. Most people have this issue with Magicka.

Never had this issue with a 5770, 5830, 6850 or 6870. What are the rest of your guys specs? Which drivers are you guys using?
 
Oni Link 666 said:
I have noticed this problem with some games. Do you think it could be an issue with something else like your, HDD, RAM, or CPU? Or maybe that the video card is not getting good enough cooling?
Click to expand...
No, I don't think so.

My machine is a Core i7-930 with 12gb of ram running in triple channel with Windows 7 installed on a Corsair SSD (freshly installed too). My PSU is 1000W Corsair and my video card temps are low. This only occurs with a select few games, as noted.
 
I don't know if it works with the 6XXX series, but I use a program called Radeon Pro to force vsync and now I no longer have this problem. Using CCC doesn't really work, supposedly it has problems doing vsync in Windows 7 or Vista. This problem was driving me insane, so yeah, try Radeon Pro.

Still doesn't help the fact that my laptop overheats like a bitch and makes it basically impossible to play games.
 
I never noticed any stuttering in Mafia 2 and GTA 4 with my 6970. Back when I played WoW I used a 5870 and didn't have any then either. With my 6970 I run an AMD 1090T 6 core with 8 Gigs of DDR3 1333. When I ran a 5870 I had an AMD 965 Quad with 8 Gigs of DDR2 800. All were self built with Gigabyte motherboards. I wish I could help you, but I've never experienced what you are complaining about.

Edit: And before all those, I ran a 4870, and once again never experienced any stuttering.
 
I had this issue, and it turns out it was because I had my TV plugged into the HDMI port of my 6950 card at the same time as my monitor.

I solved it by unplugging the TV's HDMI from the card, going to display properties/advanced tab, and making sure my monitor was set to 60hz.

When I want to use my TV to do PC gaming, I plug it back in, set my monitor resolution to 1280x720, make sure the card is outputting 60hz, and it works fine.

Also, the Fallout: New Vegas microstutter is a problem with Windows 7 64 (and probably any 64 bit version) that the developer refuses to even acknowledge, and has existed since Oblivion. Totally different issue.
 
The only thing I can think of is micro stuttering when using CrossFire/SLI. Either way you should probably try D3DOverrider to force Vsync and tripple buffering.
 
FlyinJ said:
Also, the Fallout: New Vegas microstutter is a problem with Windows 7 64 (and probably any 64 bit version) that the developer refuses to even acknowledge, and has existed since Oblivion. Totally different issue.
Click to expand...

i was reading yesterday how microstutters could be due to multicore processors and "core parking".
 
FlyinJ said:
I had this issue, and it turns out it was because I had my TV plugged into the HDMI port of my 6950 card at the same time as my monitor.

I solved it by unplugging the TV's HDMI from the card, going to display properties/advanced tab, and making sure my monitor was set to 60hz.

When I want to use my TV to do PC gaming, I plug it back in, set my monitor resolution to 1280x720, make sure the card is outputting 60hz, and it works fine.

Also, the Fallout: New Vegas microstutter is a problem with Windows 7 64 (and probably any 64 bit version) that the developer refuses to even acknowledge, and has existed since Oblivion. Totally different issue.
Click to expand...

I'm doing that right now. Maybe this is it.
 
Do you guys have MSI Afterburner? Run your games and check the logs/graph and see what the GPU usage is like. You may be able to link the stutters with dips in usage, which you can cross reference with CPU usage with the Performance Monitor within the admin tools.

Those with i7s should try disabling Hyper Threading, and/or core parking via this link(at your own risk, though nothing can really happen).

http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.aspx?m=1861804

Another thing to screw around with is the Flip Queue Size(AMD I beleive) and Maximum Prerended Frames(nVidia). On my 460 this had to be set to 0 or there was stuttering in quite a few games. The higher the number, the more input lag you could potentially get. You could try lowering from the default 3 and test to see if it makes an impact(Check GPU usage and CPU usage as well). This is just how many frames your CPU renders(and holds) until the GPU is ready for them.

Trying different drivers can help as well, certain games prefer certain sets. With AMD you can use Radeon Pro to use different versions for different games without having to reinstall. It's explained in the manual, and the program automatically downloads them for you(last 2-3 years worth of drivers).
 
You don't use the Digsby IM client by any chance do you? I mention it because I used to have stutter in all full screen games and video and it took me forever to figure out it was Digsby causing it. Something to do with a cursor shadow bug or its constant checking for full screen apps running. I noticed it 2 or 3 years ago but the bug still exists so I thought it was worth mentioning.
 
Lostconfused said:
The only thing I can think of is micro stuttering when using CrossFire/SLI. Either way you should probably try D3DOverrider to force Vsync and tripple buffering.
Click to expand...
I always use D3DOverrider.

FlyinJ said:
I had this issue, and it turns out it was because I had my TV plugged into the HDMI port of my 6950 card at the same time as my monitor.

I solved it by unplugging the TV's HDMI from the card, going to display properties/advanced tab, and making sure my monitor was set to 60hz.

When I want to use my TV to do PC gaming, I plug it back in, set my monitor resolution to 1280x720, make sure the card is outputting 60hz, and it works fine.

Also, the Fallout: New Vegas microstutter is a problem with Windows 7 64 (and probably any 64 bit version) that the developer refuses to even acknowledge, and has existed since Oblivion. Totally different issue.
Click to expand...
Hmm, I'll have to try this. I also have an HDMI cable connected at all times for my TV. Unfortunately, I only tend to PC game on my TV (Pioneer Kuro). I ran wires to my basement theater for PC gaming while the PC is upstairs. I have a 23" Samsung LCD up there and, to be honest, it absolutely sucks compared to the Pioneer. Not even remotely close, so I never use it for gaming. If I had to unplug my TV, well, the problem would likely remain. Both displays are 1080p native, however, and I run them in mirrored mode.

As for Fallout, there IS a fix for that microstutter issue. I applied it to both Fallout 3 and New Vegas without a problem, but it requires that your machine never drops from 60 fps or else the game will run slowly.
 
Never had stutter in wow, didn't notice any in mafia 2 (though my framerate wasn't that high to begin with, only 35-40).

I definitely have it in magicka though (everyone with an ATI card does I think).
 
5770 here, only happens with The Witcher 2, I blame the game, it only happens in close places with fire or lights and its not a big deal.

I hope its not due to overclock
 
i don't have frame stuttering on my 4870x2. what i have is often effects like shadows and lights flickering when running in fullscreen mode with crossfire enabled. some games do it, some don't, but it's really fucking annoying. it's like an alternate frame stutter, every other frame the shadow isn't drawn or something. it doesn't do it when i go windowed mode (which disables the crossfire) or disable the second chip on the card with the driver settings, so it must be some dual chip on one card/crossfire rendering issue. fucking pc gaming.
 
dark10x said:
As for Fallout, there IS a fix for that microstutter issue. I applied it to both Fallout 3 and New Vegas without a problem, but it requires that your machine never drops from 60 fps or else the game will run slowly.
Click to expand...

You don't need to use the iFPSClamp ini tweak (which will cause slow motion if you drop below 60 fps). The Oblivion/Fallout thing is a Gamebryo problem called the 64hz bug, and the name basically describes the problem: the games don't run in 60 hz like your monitor, but 64 hz. It's fixable with a mod (Oblivion/Fallout/New Vegas Stutter Remover).
 
Ledsen said:
You don't need to use the iFPSClamp ini tweak (which will cause slow motion if you drop below 60 fps). The Oblivion/Fallout thing is a Gamebryo problem called the 64hz bug, and the name basically describes the problem: the games don't run in 60 hz like your monitor, but 64 hz. It's fixable with a mod (Oblivion/Fallout/New Vegas Stutter Remover).
Click to expand...

I've yet to play them, but picked up FO3 in the summer sale. What if you just run it with triple buffer v-sync and never go past 60hz? Do you still need to apply it?

EDIT: Did you stealth edit? I could have sworn you didn't have that much info when I hit quote.
 
Ledsen said:
You don't need to use the iFPSClamp ini tweak (which will cause slow motion if you drop below 60 fps). The Oblivion/Fallout thing is a Gamebryo problem called the 64hz bug, and the name basically describes the problem: the games don't run in 60 hz like your monitor, but 64 hz. It's fixable with a mod (Oblivion/Fallout/New Vegas Stutter Remover).
Click to expand...

There is a mod, but it hasn't been updated for months. You would have to roll back your Fallout New Vegas install about 4 versions to get it to work.

There is a universal .exe hack which works with all versions, but it causes all the lip-syncing in the game to go out of sync (and probably tons of other things go out of sync as well).
 
1-D_FTW said:
I've yet to play them, but picked up FO3 in the summer sale. What if you just run it with triple buffer v-sync and never go past 60hz? Do you still need to apply it?

EDIT: Did you stealth edit? I could have sworn you didn't have that much info when I hit quote.
Click to expand...

Forcing triple buffering, vsync, etc does not help the problem. It's an inherent engine problem.
 
dark10x said:
Whelp, that didn't fix it. Even with one display connected, the stutter continues. :\
Click to expand...

Did you check your advanced display properties to make sure that the card is outputting 60hz non-interlaced and not 30hz interlaced?
 
FlyinJ said:
Forcing triple buffering, vsync, etc does not help the problem. It's an inherent engine problem.
Click to expand...


I can't believe the community hasn't shamed them into a fix. Designing games to run at 64hz? What planet are they living on? Must have been designed in some alt universe where 64hz is the standard. I thought people complaining in the Steam thread were talking about some bug that "maybe" you'd encounter.
 
FlyinJ said:
There is a mod, but it hasn't been updated for months. You would have to roll back your Fallout New Vegas install about 4 versions to get it to work.

There is a universal .exe hack which works with all versions, but it causes all the lip-syncing in the game to go out of sync (and probably tons of other things go out of sync as well).
Click to expand...

It was updated up to the most recent patch, it just hasn't been updated for the one that came out last week. I'm sure he'll get to it soon.

1-D_FTW said:
I can't believe the community hasn't shamed them into a fix. Designing games to run at 64hz? What planet are they living on? Must have been designed in some alt universe where 64hz is the standard. I thought people complaining in the Steam thread were talking about some bug that "maybe" you'd encounter.
Click to expand...

It's completely fucked up, but they don't care because console gamers are used to low fps/stutter and pc gamers can just mod it.
 
Ledsen said:
It was updated up to the most recent patch, it just hasn't been updated for the one that came out last week. I'm sure he'll get to it soon.
Click to expand...

You realize you just completely contradicted yourself with that statement, right?

When I looked at the file's description yesterday, it said it was "barely" compatible with a patch released several months ago. I assume we're talking about this one:

http://www.newvegasnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=34832
 
With my 5870 I had a stuttering problem in Source engine games, despite vsync on and reported constant 60fps. It was fixed by putting +fps_max 63 in the launch options.
 
I have this problem on my 4870. The games are mostly smooth however they consistently skip every 2 seconds or so and its really annoying.

I've looked into this about as much as the OP and have tried various stuff including disabling the idle downclocking through various means. Nothing works.

The silence from AMD is really infuriating.
 
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=23208

for gamebryo (oblivion, fallout, new vegas) try this mod, i dont know if it works but seems like alot of people link to it.


papercut said:
I have this problem on my 4870. The games are mostly smooth however they consistently skip every 2 seconds or so and its really annoying.

I've looked into this about as much as the OP and have tried various stuff including disabling the idle downclocking through various means. Nothing works.

The silence from AMD is really infuriating.
Click to expand...

does make sense on the 64hz theory thing, because you would be offset and eventually you'll miss displaying a frame.


each "V" is when the monitor grabs the frame data

Code: 
grab f1 grab f2  grab f3  grab f5   <-- Grabbing frame data at regular intervals
  V        V        V        V
|frame1|frame2|frame3|frame4|frame5| <-- frame buffer

Notice that frame 4 got skipped the frame buffer was updated to quickly.

edit: this turned out alot simpler in my head lol.
 
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