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Is eccentricity in modern console gaming design dieing?

S

Spokeys

Member
The title might seem really vague, but I don't know how to word this question that well. I'll start with this: Last generation and even more so the one before that, it seemed a good choice of games were highly experimental with their visuals, story-line and gameplay ideas. I reveled in these type of games. They seemed to work almost on the same level as an arthouse film and threw any predesignated barriers and well known rules out the window.

Now, it seems the industry has changed to significally detour from this type of thing. It seems things mostly try to play it safe and emulate the triple AAA shooters or what have you with their tried and tested gameplay and design. It's most likely because the game business is now dominated by wanting be the next blockbuster call of duty type game. These kind of experiences might be looked upon as a money sink now.

Now, to kind of illustrate my point here's a list with some pretty pictures:

Chulip
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Cubivore:
WCnuP.jpg


Guitaroo Man
wK2Im.jpg


Jet Set Radio Series
DoBSw.jpg


Killer 7
X7YP6.jpg


Parappa 2
ZBHZF.jpg


Rule of Rose
432Ff.png


Space Channel 5 Series
MfvI8.jpg




The games this generation that I can say provided me with this kind of experience were only Deadly Premonition, Earth Defense Force 2017 and Child of Eden. Now I know a lot of these kind of games still heavily show up on handhelds and now seem to take the downloadable approach. One of my other main questions is do you think we'll see these any of these lower budget, quirky and more experimental kind of games in retail or will they forever be perished to the downloadable and handheld route?
 
The answer is yes, these still exist. I take it you don't have a Wii.

EDIT well maybe not in retail. Not until the realism fad dies out.
 
It all boils down to costs and risks. It's getting expensive to make a console game nowadays. That's the only logical explanation I can think of.
 
The Awesomest said:
The answer is yes, these still exist. I take it you don't have a Wii.

EDIT well maybe not in retail. Not until the realism fad dies out.
Click to expand...

I have a Wii. I haven't used it that much and have the games I have tried out that interest me with this direction are the No More Heroes games and Mad World. I still really want to try Little King's Story but might go the Vita route with it however.

Rabbitwork said:
i'm not sure why OP clicked "post thread" when he answered his own question?
Click to expand...

There's always a different take with this kind of thing. I'm interested to hear others examples, thoughts and opinions.
 
Of the pics you posted, three games were actually top quality productions. The rest were either interesting experiments, or just unpolished or flawed.

Eccentricity works when it's wrapped in a compelling game. Wackiness for the sake of it (see: most Japanese game design these days) is a dead-end.
 
Limbo? Catherine? That shitty Mikami shooter with the dick jokes? With the advent of indie and digital downloads there has been a GROWTH of these kinds of games this gen.
 
Spokeys said:
I have a Wii. I haven't used it that much and have the games I have tried out that interest me with this direction are the No More Heroes games and Mad World. I still really want to try Little King's Story but might go the Vita route with it however.



There's always a different take with this kind of thing. I'm interested to hear others examples, thoughts and opinions.
Click to expand...

has eccentricity in console game design died? no, it's been relegated to indie developers. publishers are less inclined to take risks on games that don't follow proven conventions.
 
Japanese games, especially those that are quirky or otherwise 'different', are not as popular in the West as shooters and sports games, no.
 
Icicle said:
Japanese games, especially those that are quirky or otherwise 'different', are not as popular in the West as shooters and sports games, no.
Click to expand...

My OP heavily skews towards Japanese games, yes. There were some western games that I think fit the bill too but didn't post such as Psychonauts and Amplitude.
 
Yes.. Two reasons:

1. Games need larger teams + budgets today. That means less risks, more populist game types.

2. The more top-down Japanese development style, where a crazy producer will dictate insane ideas to his subordinates, is losing out to the more Western model of development, with more team collaboration and focus play testing.

1 and 2 are probably inter-related, too.

And also, No:

Digital download games on consoles and mobile continue to bring the "crazy" all the time.
 
It wasn't meant to be a stealth Japanese industry is dieing thread. With my list it skews towards it since I stupidly didn't put any Western titles in. I mean, it's hard not to since i'm bringing up last generation and all. Here's some Western titles last-gen I think that could compare: Psi-Ops, Psychonauts, Primal, Mark of Kri and Bard's Tale.
 
I agree with ya op. There is a definite lack of imagination to most console games nowadays, which is sad considering with games you can do pretty much anything. But of course now console games are ruled by Western companies as was pointed out, which in general means big budget shooter or game with shooting elements. Otherwise, join us in handheld land where you can still get stuff thats "different", like Patchwork Heroes or What Did I Do to Deserve This, My Lord!?.
 
Oh cool another thread where the OP ignores every game that refutes his argument and thinks the only games released every year are Modern Warfare, Madden and Assassins Creed.

Lock.ban.demod
 
If you post 2 Kimura/Punchline games and haven't played Little King's Story/King Story, you should really have done better research. Let me throw in all of Skip's and Vanpool's games, too. Audio, Inc. is in there, too, with Contact 1 and Sakura Note: The Future Connected To The Present.

Bangaio Spirits is 1 of the greatest games ever and the only shoot-'em-up puzzle game this generation.

The Dragon Quest Heroes/Slime Of Gusto series is a continuation, but it's plenty quirky. Dig Dug: Digging Strike is a fun combination of 1 and 2. Xi Coliseum is Devil Dice. Lunar Knights/Our Sun: Django And Sabata is tons of fun. Katamari/Clump Spirit had a ton of sequels.

Every Sting game. Every Sting game. In fact, let's continue the PSP run with Half-Minute Hero/Hero 30, Z.H.P.: Unlosing Ranger Versus Darkdeath Evilman/Absolute Hero Remodeling Project, Patchwork Heroes/1,000,000 Tons Of Debris, Cladun/Classic Dungeon, Patapon, Echo/Corridor, and Jikandia: The Timeless Land/Time Of Fantasia.

Opoona is wholly underrated if you treat it as an adventure-role-playing game and is aesthetically top-notch. Ghost Trick is an unique take on graphic adventures. I Love Zombies/Zombie Daisuki is Pikmin if your troops were imbeciles. Botanicula looks odd. The Mighty series is the best thing WayForward's ever done. Nora And The Time Studio: The Witch Of The Misty Forest is adorable. Ditto Coropata, the The Incredible Machine clone. Get on Trauma Center/Cadeceus now, as I totally ignored it until it was too late.

I'm not sure Inazuma 11/Lightning 11 is quirky, given that it's a multimedia franchise, but Pokemon-blitzball-Captain-Tsubasa-soccer is, um, unique. Watch Yokai Watch/Spirit Watch.

There are way more than that, so read Silicon Era and Andriasang. I'm just saying that all of those are very good to "among the best ever."
 
Ok, the thread title was probably a bit sensationalist. I probably should have went with
"less prevelant" or something. I know there's still quite a bit of examples this generation. The games with this type of flavor were like my lifeblood and I was able to sate my appetite really easily back then. Fine, maybe I haven't been looking hard enough.

GhaleonQ said:
If you post 2 Kimura/Punchline games and haven't played Little King's Story/King Story, you should really have done better research. Let me throw in all of Skip's and Vanpool's games, too. Audio, Inc. is in there, too, with Contact 1 and Sakura Note: The Future Connected To The Present.

Bangaio Spirits is 1 of the greatest games ever and the only shoot-'em-up puzzle game this generation.

The Dragon Quest Heroes/Slime Of Gusto series is a continuation, but it's plenty quirky. Dig Dug: Digging Strike is a fun combination of 1 and 2. Xi Coliseum is Devil Dice. Lunar Knights/Our Sun: Django And Sabata is tons of fun. Katamari/Clump Spirit had a ton of sequels.

Every Sting game. Every Sting game. In fact, let's continue the PSP run with Half-Minute Hero/Hero 30, Z.H.P.: Unlosing Ranger Versus Darkdeath Evilman/Absolute Hero Remodeling Project, Patchwork Heroes/1,000,000 Tons Of Debris, Cladun/Classic Dungeon, Patapon, Echo/Corridor, and Jikandia: The Timeless Land/Time Of Fantasia.

Opoona is wholly underrated if you treat it as an adventure-role-playing game and is aesthetically top-notch. Ghost Trick is an unique take on graphic adventures. I Love Zombies/Zombie Daisuki is Pikmin if your troops were imbeciles. Botanicula looks odd. The Mighty series is the best thing WayForward's ever done. Nora And The Time Studio: The Witch Of The Misty Forest is adorable. Ditto Coropata, the The Incredible Machine clone. Get on Trauma Center/Cadeceus now, as I totally ignored it until it was too late.

I'm not sure Inazuma 11/Lightning 11 is quirky, given that it's a multimedia franchise, but Pokemon-blitzball-Captain-Tsubasa-soccer is, um, unique. Watch Yokai Watch/Spirit Watch.

There are way more than that, so read Silicon Era and Andriasang. I'm just saying that all of those are very good to "among the best ever."
Click to expand...

Thank you for the suggestions. I've been pretty much restricted to consoles so most of my experience and examples have been through those but whenever I get a handheld, I'll keep those in mind.

Frankenstrat said:
first thought. Also,



dude. seriously.
Click to expand...

Oops, a typo. My mistake.
 
They're still there. Stuff like Deadly Premonition and Catherine. And they still make money if they can get a following.
 
still exist on the Wii and digital releases (XBLA + PSN)


big budget retail titles are still chasing cinema level visuals... and many of them barely stand out because of it.
 
Have you tried Alice: Madness Returns? Has quite interesting visuals, not sure if it is eccentric enough or in line to what you are looking for though.
 
The Antitype said:
Of the pics you posted, three games were actually top quality productions. The rest were either interesting experiments, or just unpolished or flawed.

Eccentricity works when it's wrapped in a compelling game. Wackiness for the sake of it (see: most Japanese game design these days) is a dead-end.
Click to expand...

I happen to agree with the OP and miss the large number of strange games from the previous generations. Whether or not you or reviewers think they are top quality productions isn't the point if I think Mr. Mosquito and Metropolismania are fun.
 
I don't really agree with the artificial shitting on downloadable games. Many of the weird games last gen were budget titles, either in cost at retail or in obvious production values, there's no need to ignore downloadable titles because team sizes aren't large enough. Remember that Fantavision was a retail title last generation, and so when downloadable games this gen routinely eclipse it in scope and production values, I don't understand the distinction.

Here's ten or so eccentric games on PS3.

HHAZa.jpg

Afrika (PS3) - It's eccentric because of the game design (no failure condition, free-form, discovery based) and because of the premise (you're a freeland wildlife photographer filing for National Geographic from Africa)

j5JkP.jpg

Heavy Rain (PS3) - It's eccentric not because of the story or setting, both of which are pretty well tread in games, but because of the game design (no failure condition / branching story, QTE+)

o657t.jpg

Little Big Planet (PS3) - Although the interesting pastiche of textiles as textures is not commonly used in game, what makes it eccentric is the emergent gameplay element of the user-generated content. Most of what people have made for the game aren't platforming levels--some are Goldberg machines (which, by the way, reminds me that Garry's Mod also qualifies absolutely as eccentric game design), some are other genres of game entirely. The sequel emphasizes this kind of thing even more.

BxgOK.jpg

ModNation Racers (PS3) - Again, the vinyl toy visual style is pretty novel, but what makes the game eccentric is just how central the content creation stuff is. In this screenshot, you can see me and my 2011 Cavalier, complete with realistic rust spot. I can't really explain what it is about the game, except to say that playing it is very different than playing all the other competitors in the segment (Blur, Sonic Kart, Mario Kart, etc)

5lzB2.jpg

3d Dot Game Heroes (PS3) - The visual style is unique, and much of the gameplay is a throwback, but there are truly eccentric elements. I've highlighted the big fuckoff sword in this screenshot. There's also an interesting genre mashup with stuff like the tower defence mode in the game.

r6x9h.jpg

Elefunk (PSN) - I chose to highlight Elefunk, but include World of Goo or Tiki Towers if you'd prefer. This generation has seen birth to entire family of popsicle stick tower construction puzzlers. Elefunk wins for most bizarre premise. Make sure your bridge doesn't collapse under the weight of a fatso elephant.

9u6sX.jpg

Flower (PSN) - Indirect control, no real failure condition, unusually clean visuals for the generation, ham-handed creation-as-destruction-as-creation metaphor. Seems eccentric to me.

d3aZ4.jpg

Trash Panic (PSN) - Imagine Tetris, only all of the items are irregularly shaped and there's a bizarre risk/reward system because certain items are not eco-friendly.
 
Sort of, at least for retail for the HD Twins. But there's quite a few DD games like that, like Stump posted. Also, in addition to those, I'd include Pain. Sure, it's a shitty game, but the premise is fairly bizarre and eccentric. Watch out for Tokyo Jungle too.
 
I'm only including games I've played personally.

360 / Multiplat

pL28L.jpg

Earth Defence Force 2017 - You mentioned it, so I'll post it without comment.

3hDdw.jpg

Hail to the Chimp - A top-down party minigame beat-em-up with a theme satirizing elections, politics, and political media, done in a cel shaded art style.

t8zdO.jpg

Mirror's Edge - A first-person shooter that you can finish without shooting anyone, based around tie attacking, platforming, and momentum. It's eccentric because it spins an entire genre on its head and emphasizes things that have never been emphasized before. The visual style is also very unique for the genre/generation.

GCeou.jpg

Banjo Kazooie: Nuts and Bolts - A vehicle construction physics based racing game where you can randomly exit the video and run around in a platformer world. The level design / world design is also very weird and filled with odd humour.

yGroW.jpg

Eat Lead - Eat Lead is not a good game. But it is an eccentric game. It's a bog standard 3rd person cover based shooter, but every level is a tribute to stupid, weird, or lovable things in games past. It's constantly chock full of references. And it's not Family Guy level reference humour, it's worse and somehow better--the references are so jarring and fit so poorly that the entire thing feels almost post-ironic at times.

B7mIN.jpg

50 Cent: Blood on the Sand - Also absurd. You're 50 Cent. You blow up half the middle east. You have a sidekick who incessantly babbles "Yo fiddy, fiddy, hey fiddy, yo fiddy!!!!" to a degree that it goes past insecurity and into puppy love by a few stages into the game. It's a score/combo based fast paced shooter. The entire thing is bizarre but enjoyable. Yo fiddy hit dat ramp

7X1C9.jpg

Deadly Premonition - You mentioned it, I agree.

fMkcf.jpg

Tornado Outbreak - Saturday Morning Cartoons for Kids meets Katamari Damacy. A little derivative, maybe, but still plenty eccentric compared to most games.

e09Ye.jpg

Sneak King - You're the burger king king. You hide in a stealth-based environment and surprise people with burgers using fancy-ass flourishes and bows. Also, remember, this was sold along with fast food value meals. Also unusual: the disc is a hybrid and works on the original Xbox as well as the 360.

vL1cf.jpg

Rock of the Dead - House of the Dead style rail shooter with an even cheesier plot, only you play the game with a Guitar Hero guitar and half of what you play is classical music and half of it is Rob Zombie, who by the way appears as himself as a boss in the game.

Sou7V.jpg

Blur - So Blur is a pretty standard kart racing game. It's a good one, and it's got a lot going for it, but that's not why it's eccentric. What makes it eccentric is that they use a fairly realistic art style and realistic cars. I have no idea what they were thinking, because the way the real and fantasy elements juxtapose doesn't make much sense and basing their entire ad campaign around it backfired. But the visual style is weird for that reason.

XiX2X.jpg

You Don't Know Jack - Again, takes a conventional genre like trivia and turns it on its head. Constantly insults you, laden with puns and double entendres, most of the questions are as much about figuring out the questions as they are about answering them.

qz2is.jpg

Shadows of the Damned - Mechanics are pretty standard, but the theme is weird. It's like Dante's journey through hell, only with one part Desperado and ten parts boobie/dick jokes. Oh yeah and a bunch of parts of the game are 2d side scrolling shooters, something the game makes obvious reference to.

EVk8T.jpg

The Gunstringer - Odd controls (marionette controls, interactive punching segments), odd premise (puppet comes back from dead, exacts revenge on his enemies including this Wavy Tube Man), odd presentation (the game takes place inside a stage play, with frequent cuts to real life FMV audience reactions).

Might reply later with XBLA stuff and Wii stuff.
 
Just counting games I own, Lost Planet, Rock Band 2, Dance Central 1/2, Outland, Plants vs.Zombies, Borderlands, Crackdown, and Bayonetta all have pretty unique graphics and designs. If you're looking exclusively at Japanese games (like the OP) there are still quite a few examples already listed here.

Edit: just read some of the comments re: downloadable titles. Many dl only titles have better graphics and production values than some of the games listed in the OP, unless you are Wii exclusive there is a goldmine of unique titles out there for XBLA/PSN/Steam. Bastion, Torchlight, Sequence, Super Meat Boy, Minecraft, Flower, From Dust, Insanely Twisted Shadow Planet, Explosion Man, Castle Crashers, Trials. Rayman Origins just came out for retail.
 
Stumpokapow's absolute dismantling of the OP plus serving as a guide for eccentric games this gen is worth it's weight in gold.
 
Gravijah said:
stealth japanese gaming is dying thread?
Click to expand...
I think you're one step ahead of the OP there, tbh.


I feel there is a weird gap in perception on GAF between what's actually out there and what's getting much of the media attention. Too many getting absorbed in the latter blockbuster titles and not enough taking a look at the former low-budget/indie titles.


edit: this gap is obviously completely normal, but I call it weird because I felt like it didn't exist on GAF. Maybe I was just with the right people, heh.
 
The new Rayman Origins game might qualify - I think that devs know the risk of these but some devs thrive in the risk market. Games like Catherine and Trauma Center come to mind.

Also, damn! Stumpokapow is amazing!
 
Most of this gens indie games are boring simple "retro" games with a pretentious twist that will never match lunacy and creativity of the most talented Japanese developers used to bring to the market in forms of actual new boundary-pushing games. Last gen was the peak of this style of game.

And these type of games are declining. It's a loss for players and the industry.
 
one word: money

edit: most games mentioned by Stump had underpeformed. But some did pretty well.
 
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