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Invisible_Insane · Feb 12, 2012

That features many questions having nothing to do with civic literacy!

Have at it, GAF.

My score:

31/33

edit: Title should have mentioned United States, my apologies.

el retorno · Feb 12, 2012

You answered 32 out of 33 correctly — 96.97 %

I got the last question wrong out of just wanting to finish.

But what was up with the Plato question. How is that civil literacy?

filler · Feb 12, 2012

You answered 34/33 correctly

SteveWinwood · Feb 12, 2012

el retorno de los sapos said:
You answered 32 out of 33 correctly 96.97 %

I got the last question wrong out of just wanting to finish.

But what was up with the Plato question. How is that civil literacy?

And bussiness profit? Yeah it's goofy. Empty vessel gave a good run down of it in the poligaf thread.

Invisible_Insane · Feb 12, 2012

el retorno de los sapos said:
You answered 32 out of 33 correctly 96.97 %

I got the last question wrong out of just wanting to finish.

But what was up with the Plato question. How is that civil literacy?

It's not. Neither is the question about the definition of "profit."

from Poligaf said:
SteveWinwood said:

And bussiness profit? Yeah it's goofy. Empty vessel gave a good run down of it in the poligaf thread.

Click to expand...

empty vessel said:

Some of the questions were not questions but indoctrination, e.g., "capitalism is best because ..."

The quiz is from a right-wing site and some of those civics questions weren't civics at all, e.g., what a business profit is. Of course, right-wingers love to weave capitalism into the very fabric of society as if it goes hand in hand with democratic governance, but it most certainly does not.

I also strongly doubt the website's claim (repeatedly emphasized) that government officeholders have scored lower than the general public. This is clearly meant to imply that democratic government is bad, which is ironic for a site purporting to promote civics in a democratic country.

Click to expand...

el retorno · Feb 12, 2012

SteveWinwood said:
And bussiness profit? Yeah it's goofy. Empty vessel gave a good run down of it in the poligaf thread.

I can kind of understand the profit since I think people should know how our economic system works. But that plato question was just WTF.

Cyan · Feb 12, 2012

el retorno de los sapos said:
But what was up with the Plato question. How is that civil literacy?

It becomes clear when you realize it's been put together by a conservative organization.

The Technomancer · Feb 12, 2012

28/33, I misremembered the Cuban Missile Crisis, didn't realize that "wall of separation" was a literal quote, and a few other small things.

Oh and just the whole question:

Question: Free markets typically secure more economic prosperity than government’s centralized planning because:
Your Answer: property rights and contracts are best enforced by the market system
Correct Answer: the price system utilizes more local knowledge of means and ends

was bullshit

Invisible_Insane · Feb 12, 2012

el retorno de los sapos said:
I can kind of understand the profit since I think people should know how our economic system works. But that plato question was just WTF.

I think the central point is that there's no identity relationship between civics and economics, even if the two are very closely linked, and asking a question about the latter in a quiz about the former is an inappropriate conflation.

evilpigking · Feb 12, 2012

28/33 which I think is pretty good given that I didn't study US History after high school and never bothered with any kind of economic theory or civics.

I did get the Plato question right =)

Cyan · Feb 12, 2012

el retorno de los sapos said:
But that plato question was just WTF.

Nothing to do with civics, it's just a shot at libruls and their damned moral and cultural relativism.

thekad · Feb 12, 2012

32/33. Missed the Puritans question.

el retorno · Feb 12, 2012

Invisible_Insane said:
I think the central point is that there's no identity relationship between civics and economics, even if the two are very closely linked, and asking a question about the latter in a quiz about the former is an inappropriate conflation.

I had thought that they asked a question like that on the Citizenship but it doesn't seem they do. I think I took something like this is HS and it had a question like that.

If I remember right it was more of a question like which kind of economic system does the US have. And didn't have any kind of value added.

Edit: Reading it again i'm seeing bias everywhere. From what questions they ask, the wording of the answers and even the answers that they use.

Invisible_Insane · Feb 12, 2012

The_Technomancer said:
28/33, I misremembered the Cuban Missile Crisis, didn't realize that "wall of separation" was a literal quote, and a few other small things.

Oh and just the whole question: was bullshit

I remember that being part of my high school education, nebulously.

timetokill · Feb 12, 2012

The Plato question was easy if you know anything about those guys.
That said, I do find their chart showing "elected politicians" scoring lower than the general public pretty funny

The_Technomancer said:
Oh and just the whole question:
was bullshit

High school econ, dude

Barrett2 · Feb 12, 2012

I'll take it..

That free market question seems suspect..

RBH · Feb 12, 2012

28/33

Not bad considering I haven't really studied US history/civics since high school.

Sho_Nuff82 · Feb 12, 2012

You answered 28 out of 33 correctly 84.85 %

Most of them are common sense.

Joe Shlabotnik · Feb 12, 2012

30/33

Kinda shoulda done better, really.

aktham · Feb 12, 2012

I scored higher than average

It wasn't a nice score or anything like that.

25/33

The Technomancer · Feb 12, 2012

timetokill said:
High school econ, dude

Huh, never had a macro-econ class during high-school. The closest I got was "personal finance"

Trent Strong · Feb 12, 2012

The_Technomancer said:
28/33, I misremembered the Cuban Missile Crisis, didn't realize that "wall of separation" was a literal quote, and a few other small things.

Oh and just the whole question:

was bullshit

Bullshit because free markets don't secure more economic prosperity than governments centralized planning?

timetokill · Feb 12, 2012

The_Technomancer said:
Huh, never had a macro-econ class during high-school. The closest I got was "personal finance"

Oh, interesting... hm. I really do think economics should be a standard course. Personal finance too, actually.

Invisible_Insane · Feb 12, 2012

Trent Strong said:
Bullshit because free markets don't secure more economic prosperity than governments centralized planning?

1) The reality is that some mix of the two is the most effective.
2) Civics ≠ economics.

KingK · Feb 12, 2012

31/33. I missed the Plato question and the "Why are free markets better than teh communism!" question.

The_Technomancer said:
Huh, never had a macro-econ class during high-school. The closest I got was "personal finance"

My high school required Econ and Government classes to graduate.

The Technomancer · Feb 12, 2012

Trent Strong said:
Bullshit because free markets don't secure more economic prosperity than governments centralized planning?

I don't think that the "correct" answer was correct. I don't think any answers were correct. But if its a dedicated tenet of some branch of economics that has actual weight behind it I'll tentatively accept it.

timetokill · Feb 12, 2012

Wait, people think that central planning can set prices better than a market can? Interesting.

The Technomancer · Feb 12, 2012

timetokill said:
Wait, people think that central planning can set prices better than a market can? Interesting.

Er...did I come off that way? I agree that the markets produce more prosperity then central planning, but I didn't agree with any of the listed answers as to why

Bulbo Urethral Baggins · Feb 12, 2012

damn, you guys are good. I got 4 wrong but I don't remember which ones.

Trent Strong · Feb 12, 2012

KingK said:
31/33. I missed the Plato question and the "Why are free markets better than teh communism!" question.

My high school required Econ and Government classes to graduate.

Uh, guys, the soviet union collapsed. China became quasi-capitalist. Government centralized economic planning doesn't work. It's been tried, and it was a huge failure. In fact, I think it's safe to say that communism was tried, and it was a huge failure. Do people still think, in this day and age, that communism could actually work?

FrenchToastDisciple · Feb 12, 2012

Got all of the questions right, but some of them had biased wording, although no technically untrue, and some of them had absolutely nothing to do with civics.

el retorno · Feb 12, 2012

Trent Strong said:
Do people still think, in this day and age, that communism could actually work?

Yes

krameriffic · Feb 12, 2012

The_Technomancer said:
I don't think that the "correct" answer was correct. I don't think any answers were correct. But if its a dedicated tenet of some branch of economics that has actual weight behind it I'll tentatively accept it.

Which is why multiple choice social studies exams are bullshit. I always liked writing about this stuff a lot more than canned multiple choice questions.

The Technomancer · Feb 12, 2012

Trent Strong said:
Uh, guys, the soviet union collapsed. China became quasi-capitalist. Government centralized economic planning doesn't work. It's been tried, and it was a huge failure. In fact, I think it's safe to say that communism was tried, and it was a huge failure. Do people still think, in this day and age, that communism could actually work?

Nope, Communism doesn't work for large populations for the same reason Libertarianism doesn't work for large populations.

FrenchToastDisciple · Feb 12, 2012

Trent Strong said:
Uh, guys, the soviet union collapsed. China became quasi-capitalist. Government centralized economic planning doesn't work. It's been tried, and it was a huge failure. In fact, I think it's safe to say that communism was tried, and it was a huge failure. Do people still think, in this day and age, that communism could actually work?

Yes, yes it could, although we have to become even more productive that we are now.

dschalter · Feb 12, 2012

This is a far right organization behind the "test", but it's certainly true that communism is a completely awful system in all circumstances.

ToxicAdam · Feb 12, 2012

Missed 7. Did really poorly on some of the Bill of Rights questions.

Bah .. who needs that Bill of Rights anyways?

Tristam · Feb 12, 2012

Trent Strong said:
Uh, guys, the soviet union collapsed. China became quasi-capitalist. Government centralized economic planning doesn't work. It's been tried, and it was a huge failure. In fact, I think it's safe to say that communism was tried, and it was a huge failure. Do people still think, in this day and age, that communism could actually work?

You seem to be unaware of the term 'mixed economy'.

The presentation of economies as free markets versus centralized planning is a false dichotomy. If you study the meteoric rise of South Korea, for example, you will find that protectionism and careful economic planning (e.g., enormous government investments in education, heavy industries, etc.) played a large role in the country's success.

dschalter · Feb 12, 2012

Tristam said:
The presentation of economies as free markets versus centralized planning is a false dichotomy. If you study the meteoric rise of South Korea, for example, you will find that protectionism and careful economic planning (e.g., enormous government investments in education, heavy industries, etc.) played an enormous role in the country's success.

It is now, sure. It wasn't 50 years ago and there are still a few people today who cling to their religion.

KingK · Feb 12, 2012

Trent Strong said:
Uh, guys, the soviet union collapsed. China became quasi-capitalist. Government centralized economic planning doesn't work. It's been tried, and it was a huge failure. In fact, I think it's safe to say that communism was tried, and it was a huge failure. Do people still think, in this day and age, that communism could actually work?

No, and I never said that. However, an economy that would be completely free-market without any government interference would be just as bad. The best is an economy that is predominately capitalism, but with some government planning/regulation in certain industries.

Kuga · Feb 12, 2012

You answered 30 out of 33 correctly 90.91 %

Missed a couple silly history things that I probably should have known.

As far as the complaining about the economic / profit questions go, I don't really see the issue. Even if you completely disagree with the concept of capitalism and whatnot, understanding basic P=R-E or how "free" markets succeed is essential to advocating your position. "Know thine enemy", et cetera.

Probably not appropriate questions for a civic literacy exam, though.

Trent Strong · Feb 12, 2012

Tristam said:
You seem to be unaware of the term 'mixed economy'.

The presentation of economies as free markets versus centralized planning is a false dichotomy. If you study the meteoric rise of South Korea, for example, you will find that protectionism and careful economic planning (e.g., enormous government investments in education, heavy industries, etc.) played a large role in the country's success.

KingK said:
No, and I never said that. However, an economy that would be completely free-market without any government interference would be just as bad. The best is an economy that is predominately capitalism, but with some government planning/regulation in certain industries.

Yeah, I agree. I guess I overreacted to your original post King. My bad.

marrec · Feb 12, 2012

Trent Strong said:
Bullshit because free markets don't secure more economic prosperity than governments centralized planning?

Yep, because that question cannot be asked in a vacuum. I stopped taking the quiz at that question.

Stumpokapow · Feb 12, 2012

33/33, and I'm not an American

PhoenixDark · Feb 12, 2012

"You answered 26 out of 33 correctly 78.79 %"

Puritans, Plato, Bill Of Rights? gtfo

balladofwindfishes · Feb 12, 2012

You answered 29 out of 33 correctly 87.88 %

Question: Free markets typically secure more economic prosperity than governments centralized planning because:
Your Answer: markets rely upon coercion, whereas government relies upon voluntary compliance with the law
Correct Answer: the price system utilizes more local knowledge of means and ends

This seemed like a bias question

KingK · Feb 12, 2012

Trent Strong said:
Yeah, I agree. I guess I overreacted to your original post King. My bad.

It's all good

I just didn't like the way the question was worded, and I wasn't sure between the one I picked and the one it said was correct. I selected the answer that was something like "markets rely on incentives whereas central planning relies on voluntary compliance with the law."

Stumpokapow · Feb 12, 2012

balladofwindfishes said:
This seemed like a bias question

While the question is loaded, your answer makes absolutely no sense--nothing about centralized planned economies has to do with "voluntary compliance", nor is there anything inherent in a market that implies "coercion"; coercion used in a civics context almost always refers to force of law or the state's monopoly on the use of physical force.

Pretend the question said "Proponents of a free market system claim that it secures more economic prosperity than centralized planning by government because:" and then the question is no longer loaded.

KingK · Feb 12, 2012

Stumpokapow said:
While the question is loaded, your answer makes absolutely no sense--nothing about centralized planned economies has to do with "voluntary compliance", nor is there anything inherent in a market that implies "coercion"; coercion used in a civics context almost always refers to force of law or the state's monopoly on the use of physical force.

Pretend the question said "Proponents of a free market system claim that it secures more economic prosperity than centralized planning by government because:" and then the question is no longer loaded.

I picked the same answer, but I thought it sounded weird too. The "voluntary" part didn't make sense, but I thought of coercion in the same sense as incentive, and one of the cornerstones of economics is that people naturally have incentives to do things that increase economic prosperity. I thought it might have just been a really poorly worded answer.

John Dunbar · Feb 12, 2012

You answered 26 out of 33 correctly — 78.79 %

i'm not american and there were stupid questions

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