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Steam vs. XBLA: Jonathan Blow explains why Microsoft is aiming at a moving target

More at the link: http://penny-arcade.com/report/edit...athan-blow-explains-why-microsoft-is-aiming-a

About pricing:

Jonathan Blow showed us his latest game at the Game Developers Conference, but he also shared some thoughts on the future of Steam, and why Xbox Live Arcade is a challenge for independent developers. The first issue is pricing: Blow invested a significant amount of time and money in The Witness, and the game will be much longer than Braid, with higher production values. The game may sell for around $20 to $25, which is more than the $10 or $15 standard of Xbox Live Arcade.

“If I go to Steam I can sell a game for $25, but if I go to Xbox Live Arcade I can’t,” Blow explained. “In fact, the contract says I can’t control the price at all. That artificial channeling is sort of making their platform inhospitable for certain kinds of games.”

About the submission process to get a game onto Steam:

Blow wouldn’t say what he saw at Valve, but he did say one of Steam’s problems is that it’s hard to have a limited number of people looking at the games being submitted and still make sure games that deserve it get through. The submission pipe is filled with games that barely work, as well as a flood of submissions for re-skinned versions of popular, existing games. A common trick is to change the title and loading screen of Call of Duty and submit it as a new game. It takes a significant amount of time to wade through all the cruft. “In that noise, some really good games get lost. Indies e-mail with games, demos, videos, and sometimes it’s actually a good game, and the indie community knows it’s a good game, or someone in the press knows it a good game, but Valve doesn’t know it’s a good game,” Blow said. There are plans to help with these issues, and Steam has a few other tricks up its sleeve for the future.

It's a pretty good read.
 
I'm guessing he's hinting at the Steam Comfy Couch Mode.

I feel XBLA needs more input from game developers for the next iteration of the xbox if it really wants to keep developers making games for it.


In Gabe We Trust.
 
“If I go to Steam I can sell a game for $25, but if I go to Xbox Live Arcade I can’t,”

Sell it for $25 on PSN? I don't see why it keeps getting ignored considering Sony's policies are much more lax than Microsoft's.
 
Is the implication in that second quoted excerpt that people are spamming/flooding Steam with obviously fraudulent game packages? That's... not something anyone has ever said before.
 
I love XBLA, but no. Especially against the comfy couch mode, which makes them as legitimate in the living room as any console.

Jonathan Blow actually brings up that point exactly by stating, “I shouldn’t even be picking on Microsoft, because they’ve won the console side of this thing.” He laughed after bringing up Nintendo’s online strategies, or lack thereof. “Japanese companies decided a long time ago that people don’t want to play games over the Internet,” Blow said. Microsoft has a long way to go compared to Steam but I think they can get closer next gen. Let's not forget that many of the things that make Steam awesome, MS kicked off at the start of this gen.
 
He didn't have a lot of good to say about XBLA when he was on Giant Bomb's E3 show last year. Doesn't surprise me that things haven't changed much.
 
One of the weird things Steam is missing is, surprisingly, Angry Birds. Of all the different platforms that game's on, somehow Steam isn't one of them. Outside of Storm In A Teacup, few iOS games that would work on a PC well don't seem to get on there.

Cut The Rope as well -- there's a MacApps version, and a Windows 8 version, but no Steam version.
 
Is the implication in that second quoted excerpt that people are spamming/flooding Steam with obviously fraudulent game packages? That's... not something anyone has ever said before.

Yeah, that part surprised me too. I thought the whole submission process was more... Personal.
 
Is the implication in that second quoted excerpt that people are spamming/flooding Steam with obviously fraudulent game packages? That's... not something anyone has ever said before.

That really jumped out at me as well. I wonder how many people they have screening which games to put up on Steam?
 
I've heard bad things from other people about Steam's submission processes before, always indies. Looking at the games they made they always looks really good! And then of course you also see games on the actual store that look a lot worse and you wonder how they got through...

It's good to read they are planning on doing something about it, but it should've been done a lot sooner IMO. Might as well expand the whole store instead of lumping it all into "indie" and get some more people on it and yes make it more personal like Brazil said. Hell, every company should have the resources to handle each and every submission, no matter how small, on that level. I've met people who in appearance don't seem to know two shits about games and they work as a judge for big time publishers :/
 
Sell it for $25 on PSN? I don't see why it keeps getting ignored considering Sony's policies are much more lax than Microsoft's.

There's 2 things.

1- Indies don't like Sony, in general, for some reason. My guess is its due partly to the fact that coding on a PS3 is a crazy hassle. Dev hardware is very expensive and you can't just sub to a program and code on your PC.

2- Having dealt with Sony to release games on PSN at my last job, they are not always the friendliest of people. The requests they had for a game we wanted to put up there were completely NUTS - basically, they wanted PSP connectivity with a PSP version of the game for a casual game we were working on, never minding that we were certainly NOT developing a PSP version of the game...
 
Is the implication in that second quoted excerpt that people are spamming/flooding Steam with obviously fraudulent game packages? That's... not something anyone has ever said before.

It's hard to tell whether it's actually that or a hip, edgy crack at Gameloft types. I'm betting Gameloft just because if Valve was actually overwhelmed on an Apple scale one or two would've slipped by and we'd have had a 9007-page "POKEMON ON STEAM" thread.
 
Wasnt The Witness planned to be released on XBLA?

It might have been a few years ago, but for at least a year, maybe longer, Blow has been saying it's not something that's likely to hit XBLA. His frustrations at working with Microsoft and the conversion process, relative to Steam, make it not something he's interested in.
 
Maybe when Valve does their IPO they can hire more submission reviewers.

Can't imagine a Valve IPO as long as Gabe is affiliated with their operations in any way. IPOs happen bc owners want riches. Gabe's already loaded enough to not give a fuck. This is his hobby.
 
Is the implication in that second quoted excerpt that people are spamming/flooding Steam with obviously fraudulent game packages? That's... not something anyone has ever said before.

I think he is just using the Call of Duty name as a metaphor for games being made and approved that are so similar in concept to established franchises that completely original ideas are getting lost in the shuffle. Not anything fraudulent.
 
If they did allow any type of game at any price on XBLA, Braid would have been buried under an avalanche of other titles, and Blow wouldn't have been able to make The Witness in the first place.
 
Sell it for $25 on PSN? I don't see why it keeps getting ignored considering Sony's policies are much more lax than Microsoft's.

For some reason nobody buys games on PSN. I don't know why, because it's great, especially for devs. Microsoft's stranglehold on the US market angers me :<
 
nvm, I didn't know that indie games had a pricing limit as well.

Pricing limit, size limit, visibility limit, demo restrictions, and can only be coded in XNA.

I think he is just using the Call of Duty name as a metaphor for games being made and approved that are so similar in concept to established franchises that completely original ideas are getting lost in the shuffle. Not anything fraudulent.

I'm not sure that point makes any sense; there simply isn't an epidemic of same-old games being approved on Steam, and we're also not hearing about an epidemic of rejections for same-old games being submitted to Steam. I mean, if the point is that Valve is overwhelmed at the approval stages and has a hard time separating wheat from chaff, that makes total sense, I just... the frame story he uses to explain it doesn't make much sense.
 
What surprises me is not that someone would try to game a process, but rather than someone would try to game a process that so obviously can't be gamed.

I imagine there's a thrill in just seeing it listed. Kinda like crank calling Fox News as opposed to a cable access show.
 
Is the implication in that second quoted excerpt that people are spamming/flooding Steam with obviously fraudulent game packages? That's... not something anyone has ever said before.

I was pretty surprised by that.

I suppose I took it for granted that Steam wasn't the toilet that iTunes is.
 
So how many copies does he expect to sell on IOS for $25? Or is he going to price it substantially lower the price because of the much lower average sell price on the platform? History has shown high price points tend to get ignored on the mobile marketplaces.
 
Sell it for $25 on PSN? I don't see why it keeps getting ignored considering Sony's policies are much more lax than Microsoft's.
Other developers have kind of narrowed it to Steam vs XBLA like Jonathan Blow has, that I have to think PSN games don't get as many sales. PSN seems to have benefits over XBLA, but developers still seem to focus on XBLA for consoles which I could only think is for monetary reasons.
 
Other developers have kind of narrowed it to Steam vs XBLA like Jonathan Blow has, that I have to think PSN games don't get as many sales. PSN seems to have benefits over XBLA, but developers still seem to focus on XBLA for consoles which I could only think is for monetary reasons.

As much as people bitch about the ads on the 360 dashboard, it does drive sales and that is what devs need. More eyes on their game. I knew Braid was for sale the day it launched because of the dashboard.

Sony's XMB advertising just isn't enough to catch people's eye and drive them towards games available on the platform.
 
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