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Valve is Trying to Stop People Suing Them

MRORANGE

Member
Hey it's Kotaku! worth reading actually.

http://store.steampowered.com/subscriber_agreement/
Valve have announced changes to Steam's subscriber agreement that seek to prohibit users from filing lawsuits against the company.
Saying that they "considered this change very carefully", a Valve statement explains that "It's clear to us that in some situations, class actions have real benefits to customers. In far too many cases however, class actions don't provide any real benefit to users and instead impose unnecessary expense and delay, and are often designed to benefit the class action lawyers who craft and litigate these claims."


"Class actions like these do not benefit us or our communities. We think this new dispute resolution process is faster and better for you and Valve while avoiding unnecessary costs, and that it will therefore benefit the community as a whole."

On the one hand, they have a point! Many class action lawsuits are a waste of everyone's time and a pain in the ass. But what happens if something terrible happens to Steam one day, and there are actually grounds to instigate such a case? As the statement reads, in some situations, class action lawsuits do benefit customers. By removing that option, they're essentially depriving you, as a consumer, of a valid means of protecting your rights and gaining compensation should Valve one day mess something up.

In addition to the attempted block on class-action suits - remember, some American states are questioning the legality of these kind of clauses - Valve is also trying to put a stop to users launching individual lawsuits against the company, instead introducing "a new required process whereby we agree to use arbitration or small claims court to resolve the dispute."

This sucks. Why? You normally can't appeal the findings of a private arbitration hearing, nor is there an independent or public means of reviewing an arbitrator's decisions. Such hearings are also designed to be conducted privately, out of the public eye.


The move ensures that even if Valve screws something up, or something terrible happens to Steam and/or your games collection, any compensation or dispute will be handled on their terms, not those of a court and jury.

Should you actually need to resolve a dispute via such a hearing, "Valve will reimburse your costs of the arbitration for claims under a certain amount". Also, "Reimbursement by Valve is provided regardless of the arbitrator's decision, provided that the arbitrator does not determine the claim to be frivolous or the costs unreasonable."

You can read the new agreement in its entirety here. Importantly, it appears that, much like Microsoft's changes, there is no "opt-out" clause.

The new agreement is part of a Steam update that has already gone live.


Not sure how small claims courts work in the US, but they suck over here.



EDIT: a message from Valve:


Every so often we need to update the Steam Subscriber Agreement (“SSA”) and Valve’s Privacy Policy. These documents are the terms to which you (and all Steam users) agreed when first creating an account. Whenever we need to make changes to these agreements we like to bring the changes to your attention and explain why they’re necessary. The next time you log in to Steam you’ll be asked to read and agree to the new terms.

This time around there are a number of changes reflected in both documents including the opening of a new Valve office in Luxembourg to better serve our EU customers and partners. If you live in the EU, your SSA will be with our Luxembourg subsidiary Valve S.a.r.l. and the SSA has been amended to reflect additional terms specific to our EU customers. We've added other terms related to the Steam Wallet and Steam trading to accommodate new features and capabilities of Steam.

We’re also introducing a new dispute resolution process that will benefit you and Valve. Recently, a number of companies have created similar provisions which have generated lots of discussion from customers and communities, and we’ve been following these discussions closely. On Steam, whenever a customer is unhappy with any transaction, our first goal is to resolve things as quickly as possible through the normal customer support process. However in those instances in which we can't resolve a dispute, we've outlined a new required process whereby we agree to use arbitration or small claims court to resolve the dispute. In the arbitration process, Valve will reimburse your costs of the arbitration for claims under a certain amount. Reimbursement by Valve is provided regardless of the arbitrator’s decision, provided that the arbitrator does not determine the claim to be frivolous or the costs unreasonable.

Most significant to the new dispute resolution terms is that customers may now only bring individual claims, not class action claims. We considered this change very carefully. It’s clear to us that in some situations, class actions have real benefits to customers. In far too many cases however, class actions don’t provide any real benefit to users and instead impose unnecessary expense and delay, and are often designed to benefit the class action lawyers who craft and litigate these claims. Class actions like these do not benefit us or our communities. We think this new dispute resolution process is faster and better for you and Valve while avoiding unnecessary costs, and that it will therefore benefit the community as a whole.

Thanks for reading through our thoughts on these updates and for your continued use of Steam.
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The move ensures that even if Valve screws something up, or something terrible happens to Steam and/or your games collection, any compensation or dispute will be handled on their terms, not those of a court and jury.

sounds scarier than what it actually could mean, somehow I feel we'd be worse off if a court and jury decided over something like that
 
Well, valve will never see any of my money again.

Out of all of the posts like this that I'm sure we'll be seeing shortly, I doubt any of the owners would have ever sued Valve under any circumstance. So bring on the hilarity and hyperbole!
 
In far too many cases however, class actions don't provide any real benefit to users and instead impose unnecessary expense and delay, and are often designed to benefit the class action lawyers who craft and litigate these claims."
Anyone else see the news of the Netflix settlement yesterday? $9,000,000 total with $30,000 to the plaintiffs. Then again, I think I got a check for a quarter from some eBay Motors settlement.
 
Yeah, I bet people are just going to flock to origin and gfwl, because they are so much better amirite? Hyuck hyuck hyuck.

This does not affect 99.99% of the users, total non issue.
Oh no, no, no, NO. We're not starting with this line of reasoning tonight.

Please.
 
Yeah, I bet people are just going to flock to origin and gfwl, because they are so much better amirite? Hyuck hyuck hyuck.

This does not affect 99.99% of the users, total non issue.

Well he can't flock to either of those because EA and MS have the same clause.

I guess he'll just have to quit video games. Over something that will likely never affect him.
 
Horseshit.

Even though it will most likely be a non-issue for me, its just horseshit to protect company interests like this.
 
This is a case of a few assholes ruining things for everyone. You know this is because someone pre-ordered a game and because of network issues, it was a few hours late in releasing. As a result: frivolous lawsuit! A few thousand of these and Valve has now locked down the EULA to prevent legal actions from ever happening.
 
That's too bad. It may be silly, but one of the things I always notice on Steam when checking out is that the ToS was still the 2010 ToS. I always get nervous when a company changes the ToS every couple of months, but Valve seemed to keep things simple.

I really don't trust the arbitration provided in these instances, and the fact that a company can say "You can't file a lawsuit against us" is really disturbing. Can't really defend Valve on this one.
 
We've seen this before with Sony and M$, so I'm not sure why everyone is surprised.

Honestly though, Valve seems least likely to fuck you over in the long run than the other two.
 
How would this hold up in a court of law, anyway? Especially when you don't have an opt out clause. I noticed a Steam update available when I booted up Steam, and it mentions the new terms and conditions. Next time I restart Steam this will be active so it isn't like I have a choice in the matter.

I'm not concerned about being screwed by Valve, but I still don't like being forced into these clauses.
 
Anyone else see the news of the Netflix settlement yesterday? $9,000,000 total with $30,000 to the plaintiffs. Then again, I think I got a check for a quarter from some eBay Motors settlement.
Yep - got an email the other day.
 
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