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The impact of next-gen console hardware on PC gaming

Durante

Member
We now have a pretty good idea of what the next-gen consoles will provide in terms of hardware. It's all just based rumors at this point, but enough of them and consistently enough to enable some discussion about what this means for PC gaming.

When I write about the specs of the systems in this thread, I always mean the rumored specs, which may or may not be accurate and complete. Also, all the consequences listed below are pure speculation on my part, and may well be way off the mark. I place this disclaimer here once so it doesn't clutter the rest of the post.

CPUs
Both systems use an 8 core Jaguar CPU clocked at 1.6 GHz.
This is an interesting configuration, since it's far weaker per-core than recent desktop CPU, but also has more "real" cores than anything outside of HPC hardware.
Potential consequences:
- Games are finally optimized for a large number of homogeneous cores
- Intel finally starts selling 8 core CPUs for consumers
- AMD gets a much-needed (though slight) boost vs Intel in CPUs, at least in games, because more attention is paid to their architecture in compiler (and manual) optimization

GPUs
The systems use AMD GPUs based on the GCN architecture (or its successor?). The raw performance is between 1.2 and 1.8 TFLOPs.
Purely in terms of numbers, this puts them around mid-range dedicated GPUs on PC, but we can probably assume that they will be used more efficiently than what is common with PC games.
Potential consequences:
- AMD get a slight boost compared to nVidia in console ports at least, since those will be designed with their architecture in mind
- PC gamers will need to get used to playing ports at only twice the resolution or twice the framerate of their console counterparts for a bit, compared to a combined total of 14x. Well, unless they just add more GPUs (Hello Dennis!)

Memory
Games will likely be able to use 3.5 to 5 GB of memory on the upcoming consoles. It's probably fair to assume that this will get at least slightly higher on PC at console-like settings.
Potential consequences:
- We'll finally get 64 bit binaries. Fuck yeah
- People will probably want more than 8 GB of main memory at some point, good thing it's dirt cheap
- GPU memory may be the most concerning factor for ports in the short term, unless you've already invested in a 4GB/6GB card


Other
The systems are each based on a SoC design, with memory pools shared between GPU and CPU.
Potential consequences:
- Broader adoption of GPGPU in games, outside of vendor-supported physics features and the occasional CUDA waves
- PCI express bandwidth may start to matter again because of the above, especially if gameplay-relevant results need to be read back to the CPU side from the GPU


So, do you agree/disagree with any points? Did I miss something important?

Oh, and the Oculus Rift will revolutionize gaming and render all of this moot in 2014.
 

Ysiadmihi

Banned
I'm just hoping next-gen gives me a good reason to finally upgrade my CPU. My Phenom II has been comfortable as all hell for 4 years now.
 

Raptomex

Member
I'm upgrading my GPU after GTA 5 is released for PC. That should hold me over for a while I hope with other games.
 
So, do you agree/disagree with any points? Did I miss something important?

Oh, and the Oculus Rift will revolutionize gaming and render all of this moot in 2014.
Nope, it's all good. Next gen consoles will do a good job of providing a base for extravagant and pretty games that push memory, CPU, graphical limits. The PC and consoles will hopefully continue to coexist just fine.
 

RoKKeR

Member
Things are looking up for sure. AMD seemingly is cleaning house with nextgen hardware, and I might follow suit with my PC when the time is right. I've been all nVidia/Intel this gen but that might change if AMD is more supported nextgen.

All in all, it will be great for developers not to be so restricted by tech.
 

RoKKeR

Member
Thinking on a similar note, I wonder how quickly my 570 will get outdated...

I've got a 570 right now as well, and I'm hoping to hold onto it until at least holiday 2014. Seems like a stretch but it handles most games on High right now and I'd be fine with lowering settings on nextgen games.
 
I honestly feel like the specs are one of the less important factors. How the games will be priced and distributed will be most significant, given that Apple and Valve might be entering the living room and shaking things up in big ways.

I do hope the tides improve for AMD, I kind of pity bought their hardware this time around and plan to when I build a new PC in a year or two.
 
I honestly feel like the specs are one of the less important factors. How the games will be priced and distributed will be most significant, given that Apple and Valve might be entering the living room and shaking things up in big ways.

I do hope the tides improve for AMD, I kind of pity bought their hardware this time around and plan to when I build a new PC in a year or two.

I feel like the PC distribution model is in position to be far superior to the consoles (WiiU, PS4, 720). I don't see a reason to believe otherwise.
 

Durante

Member
wow will you ever need to really replace a I7 though considering those specs? that sucker is pretty powerful.
I don't think I'd absolutely need to, particularly since I have it running at 3.6 GHz, but I might want to :p

I honestly feel like the specs are one of the less important factors. How the games will be priced and distributed will be most significant, given that Apple and Valve might be entering the living room and shaking things up in big ways.
I totally agree that this will also be an essential factor, I thought about it while writing the OP but I made a conscious decision to focus on the hardware impact only since there we know enough to at least make some informed guesses.
 

zoku88

Member
Memory
Games will likely be able to use 3.5 to 5 GB of memory on the upcoming consoles. It's probably fair to assume that this will get at least slightly higher on PC at console-like settings.
Potential consequences:
- We'll finally get 64 bit binaries. Fuck yeah
- People will probably want more than 8 GB of main memory at some point, good thing it's dirt cheap
- GPU memory may be the most concerning factor for ports in the short term, unless you've already invested in a 4GB/6GB card

I'm not sure if I agree with this part. I'm not so convinced that the new consoles will have that much RAM, but who knows.

It would be nice to get 64-bit binaries, though. I have so many 32-bit libraries installed just for games.
 

Mr Swine

Banned
I've got a 570 right now as well, and I'm hoping to hold onto it until at least holiday 2014. Seems like a stretch but it handles most games on High right now and I'd be fine with lowering settings on nextgen games.

I have à 580 so it should be good with games without any form of AA which I can live without. If I'm lucky my 580 will work well for another 2 years before upgrading since the next gen consoles you doesn't seem to be better than my card (if we count tflops)
 

Durante

Member
I'm not sure if I agree with this part. I'm not so convinced that the new consoles will have that much RAM, but who knows.
At this point, with all the various leaks it seems almost certain. But yeah, as I said in the OP, all speculation based on rumors.
 
I feel like the PC distribution model is in position to be far superior to the consoles (WiiU, PS4, 720). I don't see a reason to believe otherwise.

So you can sell your used, digitally distributed PC games when you are done with them? I know WiiU allows you too, and unless MS and Sony are interested in cutting out a huge percentage of consumers who like to have the right to sell whatever they buy, them PC distribution model seems slightly flawed to me.
 
Durante threads/posts are always insightful and entertaining, if I was a girl I'd take off my shirt and chant your name.

So you can sell your used, digitally distributed PC games when you are done with them? I know WiiU allows you too, and unless MS and Sony are interested in cutting out a huge percentage of consumers who like to have the right to sell whatever they buy, them PC distribution model seems slightly flawed to me.
Please, pc games generally cost half of what console games do to begin with.
If there is one thing that is and has always been a benifit of pc gaming it's the prices of the games. I haven't paid over 35 euros for a game in years.
 

Reallink

Member
I was actually going to ask about upcoming PC GPU memory in the PC build thread. Seems like all the upcoming "gaming" cards (say NV760 and AMD8800's) are going to be worthless unless they're at least 4GB--which I just do not see them doing this year, excepting the $500+ top end.
 

Lingitiz

Member
So you can sell your used, digitally distributed PC games when you are done with them? I know WiiU allows you too, and unless MS and Sony are interested in cutting out a huge percentage of consumers who like to have the right to sell whatever they buy, them PC distribution model seems slightly flawed to me.

Considering PC games go for much cheaper on launch thanks to GMG, and Steam/Amazon sales discount fairly quickly, it seems like a moot point. If the rumors are true about MS and Sony finding ways to cut out used games it's an entirely different story.
 

Durante

Member
So you can sell your used, digitally distributed PC games when you are done with them? I know WiiU allows you too, and unless MS and Sony are interested in cutting out a huge percentage of consumers who like to have the right to sell whatever they buy, them PC distribution model seems slightly flawed to me.
I thought the Wii U doesn't even allow you to transfer your downloaded games to a different system, never mind selling them.
 

Nibel

Member
We'll finally get 64 bit binaries. Fuck yeah

So will console ports perfom better overall? I never really felt like any game makes use of my 16GB RAM despite them running at good FPS
 
Hadn't really considered till now that the next-gen consoles will be AMD powered both at the CPU & GPU level. However, considering the 360 was Power pc based and had a AMD GPU, it doesn't worry me as much. I'm sure MS will have a really good set of compilers to make things easier to port between their console and pc. Not to mention that didn't stop nVidia this gen from moneyhatting devs into writing games that performed better on their hardware. I think there was a similar initiative at Sony to make it easy for developers to port to pc.

I'm sure at the beginning will still see superior pc versions, if only because some of the pc hardware out there is ridiculously powerful. As devs start to optimize for the consoles, and in great part due to the lazyness of not optimizing for pc, some of the ports will start requiring higher than expected requirements. Just take a look at some of the latest pc ports that require 4GB of memory, when the consoles run fine with much less. As it has happened in the past, by the time we reach that point, a lot of people will have upgraded their machines where that won't be an issue.
 

Derrick01

Banned
I'm still pretty unsure when a good time to upgrade is. I guess we won't know at all until these things get release dates, but generally how long would it take for devs to get a pretty good grip on what those consoles can do and how to port them over to PC easier?

tkscz said:
And in less than a year PC gamers will still whine that consoles are holding the PC back

They'll be holding us back almost immediately since these aren't the level of specs that 360/ps3 was back in the day. Once the new PC parts catch up to the lack of optimization in the console ---> PC process we'll be at the decline point.
 
I was actually going to ask about upcoming PC GPU memory in the PC build thread. Seems like all the upcoming "gaming" cards (say NV760 and AMD8800's) are going to be worthless unless they're at least 4GB--which I just do not see them doing this year, excepting the $500+ top end.

Unified memory on consoles, some of that 4GB is going to go to storing data that isn't to be used right away (the stuff that on pc gets cached into your ddr3 ram until it's needed by the gpu and then it gets moved to the vram).

I wouldn't worry about vram limits until we see the games.

And in less than a year PC gamers will still whine that consoles are holding the PC back.
If StevieP is correct then they already have been held back by next gen consoles.
He heard that Epic has cut their cone tracing based realtime dynamic (indirect) lighting (the fancy lighting you saw in the tech demo) , probably because the hardware wasn't up for it.

I hope it was some bad info because otherwise the dissapointments are starting before the generation even begins.
 
I guess I'll be the lone voice of dissent.

I'm not particularly happy that PC gaming hinges on console hardware. I know this is one of those "It is what it is" situations but after seeing games like Deus Ex: Invisible War, Crysis 2 and Fallout New Vegas, compromise level design on their PC ports because of RAM limitations on consoles, I'm not really excited to see more of that next generation. I liked PC gaming a lot better when PC games had their space and console games had their's. It kept things like homogenous and it allowed for the PC platform to progress at it's own pace.
 

Draft

Member
So you can sell your used, digitally distributed PC games when you are done with them? I know WiiU allows you too, and unless MS and Sony are interested in cutting out a huge percentage of consumers who like to have the right to sell whatever they buy, them PC distribution model seems slightly flawed to me.
You're in the minority. Licenses have completely obliterated physical storage in music and the era of movies on physical storage is coming to a close. The most explosive new gaming platform is 100% DD (I don't like phone/tablet games, either, but it's folly to disregard their success and impact on the industry.)

Physical media is dying and the used market for that media is dying, too.
 

Rflagg

Member
I'm upgrading my GPU after GTA 5 is released for PC. That should hold me over for a while I hope with other games.

This is my plan too atm, wait for eventual pc port and go get an awesome machine. This could change if there are some major upgrades to parts available at the time coming out soon after.

I feel pretty good as this one has lasted me about 6 years without any upgrades and I can still play most multi-platform form games I am interested in better then I could otherwise, and have yet to get a game where I wasn't happy enough with my performance.

Note: Witcher 2 is one game i am interested in, but have yet to buy mostly due to backlog issues that game scares me with my outdated machine. Everything else that I am interested seems to scale well enough that I have no worries it would meet my standards which can go a lot lower then most here.
 

Saty

Member
Yeah, waiting for the next-gen transition dust to settle down before upgrading my CPU,Mobo and memory. But i'll still have the 560ti for the foreseeable future so i hope it will hold up somehow.
 

Stallion Free

Cock Encumbered
I can't wait for games to start using more of my 16 gb of ram.

Hopefully ATI and Nvidia's next line of cards are a greater boost over the 7000/600 series compared to the last leap they made.
 
So you can sell your used, digitally distributed PC games when you are done with them? I know WiiU allows you too, and unless MS and Sony are interested in cutting out a huge percentage of consumers who like to have the right to sell whatever they buy, them PC distribution model seems slightly flawed to me.

I think slightly yes, but retail will move out of the equation more and more in this generation. PC is the most far along platform for a digitla future.
 
I was planning to build a new PC, but I've decided to hold off a bit and see what all this ends up meaning for PC gamers... Will be monitoring this thread when I can.
 

Chromie

Banned
Note: Witcher 2 is one game i am interested in, but have yet to buy mostly due to backlog issues that game scares me with my outdated machine. Everything else that I am interested seems to scale well enough that I have no worries it would meet my standards which are a lot lower then most here.

What's your build? My pc is...dated. Q6600 and a single HD 5770 and I play Witcher 2 just fine at 1920x1200 res I turn everything but Uber, SSAO, AA and LOD set on Normal for 40fps most of the time.

Durante, you have now convinced me to hold off on building a new PC. I'll just let me PC building funds pile up till 2014 for Star Citizen.
 
Should any of this make me uneasy about the 3770k I'm about to buy? Would waiting for Haswell even help me if games start needing 8 cores?
 
You're in the minority. Licenses have completely obliterated physical storage in music and the era of movies on physical storage is coming to a close. The most explosive new gaming platform is 100% DD (I don't like phone/tablet games, either, but it's folly to disregard their success and impact on the industry.)

Physical media is dying and the used market for that media is dying, too.

I wonder if I am in the minority. Has Sony released any stats about their day-1 digitally available games and if those sales were remotely on par with retail copies of games? If you're right, then those games (Resident Evil 6, AC 3, Dishonored) sold better digitally than retail, but if not I guess I'm probably not in the minority.
 

Durante

Member
Should any of this make me uneasy about the 3770k I'm about to buy? Would waiting for Haswell even help me if games start needing 8 cores?
Unless some port is really bad, a 3370k should be more than enough. It has 8 hardware threads, and each of its 4 cores is clocked at more than twice the frequency of the 8 in the consoles, while also offering far more instruction level parallelism.


Durante, you have now convinced me to hold off on building a new PC. I'll just let me PC building funds pile up till 2014 for Star Citizen.
That certainly wasn't my goal, but unless you want better performance right now waiting with an upgrade is almost never the wrong choice.
 

ghst

thanks for the laugh
maxwell GPU architecture should emerge around the same time as the consumer launch of oculus and the second wave of third party next gen titles.

certainly something for the calender.
 

Chromie

Banned
That certainly wasn't my goal, but unless you want better performance right now waiting with an upgrade is almost never the wrong choice.

Lol, like I said I have an HD 5770 other than Witcher 2 there isn't any game I play that requires a good PC so I can wait for Star Citizen I don't see Project Eternity making my PC buckle.
 
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