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Kickstarter Abuse: Energy Hook and the $1 Goal

Avallon

Avallon

Member
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/551129138/energy-hook-0

Kickstarter has to do something about this. It was inevitable that people would abuse a give-me-free-money service.

Penny Arcade, you have opened the floodgates.
You've probably noticed the one dollar funding goal and are wondering WTF. Well, as I’ve been working on this game I’ve fallen in love with it, and I’m going to finish it, no matter what, even if I don’t raise a dime. Now, since I went indie years ago I’ve been bleeding money, and I don't know how much indie resolve I have left. And having a family to support, it would be irresponsible of me to keep working on the game for too much longer or blow what’s left of our savings on it, which is why I’m trying to raise some money—to get an idea of how much people want this game, and find out how much more time and money I can responsibly spend. So it’s up to you: whether I’m going to spend just a few months tying a bow on this and shipping it, or, in my dream world, spend many months, bring more people onto the team, and do something super-extra-awesome.

In a way, this is what a lot of indie games, like Overgrowth, Prison Architect, and Desktop Dungeons, do to fund development—through preorder campaigns—but I’m using Kickstarter to concentrate it into one month so I can get a good idea, right off the bat, what budget I have for this project.

I already love this game and think it's easily going to be worth your money—at the very least it’ll have five levels, thirty challenges, and give you hours of enjoyment. But it could be so much more. And it's up to you to make that happen!

In other words, I don’t need your money. But I need your money.
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Polygon said:
"And at this point, I've come so far I'm not going to quit, so I launched the Kickstarter with a $1 funding goal," Fristrom told Polygon in a recent email, "since I'm going to finish it anyway, I'm basically using Kickstarter as a pre-order campaign and powering it with stretch goals."
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That's why I quit Kickstarter. It sucks because there are good local bands here that need money to get vinyl pressed, but I can't give money to that service. 10% of everything pledged goes to the site itself.
 
Kickstarter needs to spin-off a website explicitly for Pre-orders. That would probably help to avoid people feeling scuzzed out by some of these latest kickstarters.
 
Said again and again and again and again, around and around in circle we go: the goal can be anything. If you don't think it's worth it, don't donate. If someone reads that text and still decides to give money, there is nothing you can do about it and it is completely pointless to get riled up about it. It's not your money, it's not affecting anyone but the donor.
 
He states this in the description:

'You've probably noticed the one dollar funding goal and are wondering WTF. Well, as I’ve been working on this game I’ve fallen in love with it, and I’m going to finish it, no matter what, even if I don’t raise a dime. Now, since I went indie years ago I’ve been bleeding money, and I don't know how much indie resolve I have left. And having a family to support, it would be irresponsible of me to keep working on the game for too much longer or blow what’s left of our savings on it, which is why I’m trying to raise some money'

He doesnt need the money, and this is defeating the purpose of kickstarter. Surely this is breaking the kickstarter rule that the service should not be used to 'fund a life' or whatever it is?
 
Wow, Kickstarter really wants their 10%, don't they.

How sad. Ugh.

Be right back, gonna start up a Podcast Kickstarter for my Youtube's Channels Podcast, $1 goal.
 
Kickstarter is a payroll company at this point. The middle man who manages your income for you. They also happen to run crowdfunding as well, sometimes.
 
Sethos said:
I need to start a few Kickstarters with $1 goals soon, get some easy money.
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If you offered something people want, maybe you'd deserve the money they gave you?

He's completely upfront about what's going on. It highlights an open issue with the KS service terms and enforcement, but I'm not yet convinced a KS like this is inherently problematic.

If someone reads that he doesn't NEED the money, but still wants to support him because they like the idea of Energy Hook, it's hard for me to get mad at anyone.
 
Is it a bad thing that he isn't lying? I honestly don't see the issue with this. His explanation is more than enough. He loves the game and will release it, no matter what. So saying he would need a gazillion dollars wouldn't be true. At the same time, the game he'll release without funding will differ greatly from the game he'll will release with additional funding.

Just look at the video. The game in its current state is absolutely playable. It looks horrendous, sure, but you could release it that way. However, with additional funding he'd be able to spend more time with it, polish it, and make it something that doesn't look horrendous. I'm okay with that.

To be honest, I wonder how many people are responding in this thread without even taking a closer look at the game. This is not about an idea he would like to execute, but about a game that's already fairly long in development and playable. Would he be proposing a game he needs to start from scratch for a dollar, yeah, that would be shady. But this is not that.
 
It actually looks like a good concept. Anyway it's not like he's asking for money for nothing, the more he gets, the more he can add to the game.

8b0bd3fbb91cccdf6d318b6251c89fd4_large.png
 
why do people even use kickstarter if kickstarter keeps a chunk of the money?

wouldn't it be easier to directly give money to people?
 
valkillmore said:
Its not up to Kickstarter to stop it. That's squarely in the hand of the crowd. Don't want to see shit like this? Don't fund stuff like this.
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That is not the stated philosophy of Kickstarter. Projects are supposed to have discrete goals which the money is directly required to complete.

A goal of $1 is almost never going to be appropriate. Projects like this should be on IndieGogo or somewhere else where they aren't ostensibly opposed to this kind of project. Or Kickstarter should change their rules.
 
hayguyz said:
why do people even use kickstarter if kickstarter keeps a chunk of the money?

wouldn't it be easier to directly give money to people?
Click to expand...

Would you rather buy off of Amazon or some website you've never heard of before?

Also, how did you hear about this website that no one has ever heard of before?
 
hayguyz said:
why do people even use kickstarter if kickstarter keeps a chunk of the money?

wouldn't it be easier to directly give money to people?
Click to expand...

How would you find out about these people?

Why use a bank? Just keep all your money under the bed.

They provide a service, they charge for their service. Not hard to understand.
 
hayguyz said:
why do people even use kickstarter if kickstarter keeps a chunk of the money?

wouldn't it be easier to directly give money to people?
Click to expand...

Free advertising and pay infrastructure. You have this HUGE billboard, but that billboard also makes sure that the money people want to give you arrives safely and without delay.
 
Speedy Blue Dude said:
Wow, Kickstarter really wants their 10%, don't they.

How sad. Ugh.

Be right back, gonna start up a Podcast Kickstarter for my Youtube's Channels Podcast, $1 goal.
Click to expand...

All the people who's complaint is "guess I should just try to KS my thing that I do": Do it. Put your money where your mouth is and find out what your work is worth is to people. Do it to prove that KS is nothing more than digital panhandling bullshit because of course you don't deserve any money for your product.
 
We just need to start a site called:

'GiveMeMoneyForMyShit' where people who have no need of actual crowdfunding can go and get their dosh.
 
You know, I totally get the annoyance at having projects that seem flaky sit there, but this is all voluntary. No one is getting ripped off that doesn't have the sense to figure this out for themselves. If people buy a bad game with ridiculous DLC antics, that's totally within bounds because it's up to them to educate themselves about their purchase ahead of making it. Some people need to hit a wall before understanding that they need to think ahead of their decision to pledge. Some people don't. This particular project seems safe from the description, but he lays it out there for people to understand right from the get-go. This doesn't at all come across as some ridiculously fake-ass project, like the Susan Wilson one, so I don't see the problem.
 
King Beyond the wall said:
He states this in the description:

'You've probably noticed the one dollar funding goal and are wondering WTF. Well, as I’ve been working on this game I’ve fallen in love with it, and I’m going to finish it, no matter what, even if I don’t raise a dime. Now, since I went indie years ago I’ve been bleeding money, and I don't know how much indie resolve I have left. And having a family to support, it would be irresponsible of me to keep working on the game for too much longer or blow what’s left of our savings on it, which is why I’m trying to raise some money'

He doesnt need the money, and this is defeating the purpose of kickstarter. Surely this is breaking the kickstarter rule that the service should not be used to 'fund a life' or whatever it is?
Click to expand...


Kickstarter is a business. If it was about helping the little man create something with the donations of people who want that something.. It isn't anymore..why would they stop this kind of abuse when they get a cut from it?
 
hayguyz said:
why do people even use kickstarter if kickstarter keeps a chunk of the money?

wouldn't it be easier to directly give money to people?
Click to expand...

It's out there now in a nice easy package, like steam, or origin, or indiegogo, it's just a watering hole. You can strike out on your own , and sometimes it works (notch), but I think most times it doesn't, you need publicity.
 
Huh, 1 dollar goals are pretty shady. I won't kick-start it.

Holy shit, I just used common sense. Funny how that keeps me from getting "scammed" by "greedy profiteers".
 
NoirVisage said:
Kickstarter is a business.
Click to expand...

BINGO.

All the railing against this is like some kind of idealistic crusade. And the Real World comes in to crush this naive idealism. There is no God. Santa isn't real. You are not a delicate snowflake. The world won't care when you die. Kickstarter is just a business.
 
hayguyz said:
why do people even use kickstarter if kickstarter keeps a chunk of the money?

wouldn't it be easier to directly give money to people?
Click to expand...
Kickstarter as a site has become popular enough to provide significantly more exposure to a project than simply posting a donation button on your homepage.

Something Dyack and the Shadows of the Eternal guys are learning the hard way right now.

NoirVisage said:
Kickstarter is a business. If it was about helping the little man create something with the donations of people who want that something.. It isn't anymore..why would they stop this kind of abuse when they get a cut from it?
Click to expand...
Wait, how is this not exactly that?
 
NoirVisage said:
Kickstarter is a business. If it was about helping the little man create something with the donations of people who want that something.. It isn't anymore..why would they stop this kind of abuse when they get a cut from it?
Click to expand...

How is this guy not the "little man" creating something and asking for donations from people who want it? If anything, this project is a better bet for backers than the typical little man project because this guy actually has a working project in a reasonable stage of completeness.

I'd reserve the word abuse for KS projects that are actively deceptive, obviously poorly planned, or completely fail to deliver. Or maybe I wouldn't use the word "abuse" at all because it just means "using this service in a way I don't personally agree with."
 
This is getting out of hand.

Goal should serve only one purpose: outline how much money you need to make the project. The "I'm gonna do it anyway!" dosn't work. Plan it, budget it, put a price to the time you're gonna spend on it. I don't care. But KS shouldn't allow to convert KS on a donation site. How is crowdfunding if you aren't funding anything?
 
Yeah this one's fine for me.

No dollars mean he releases the game as is with a few months of finishing up.

Stretch goals all go into a more fully featured game with more dev time as opposed to a small indie tech demo type thing. Hell a lot more money means he gets to hire an audio/music guy and then an artist.

The basic criteria I have is "Does the team or person kickstarting need the money to acheive their vision" and in this case it seems like a pretty resounding Yes.
 
If people want to give them and KS money then nobody should be able to stop them. It is their money and hopefully they understand where it is going.

I think he explained it that he can probably finish the game, but it wouldn't be the same quality and would take a lot longer if he can't get money to contract animators and such.

Pretty typical reasoning except he really wants the money thus the $1 goal and over 200 people so far are willing to give him some.

It's not KS abuse since KS allows it and gets a cut of the profits.

All KS projects should start at $1 if they can guarantee a "finished" product somewhere in the future.
 
Avallon said:
Where did you get that from?
Click to expand...

You pay money for items that may or may not exist in the future, and there are zero enforcement on the party to fulfill their obligation. Basically you pay someone, and they got to decide whether they want to send you the promised item or not.

It is funny how kickstarter was praised as something that would eventually changed the market to be more consumer focus. Now it is becoming something as bad, if not worse than gamestop pre-order.
 
Look, I used to be all about the whole 'Kickstarter indie purity' thing, but it doesn't matter. Sure, 892$ RPG day camp and Penny Arcade podcasts purchases are sleazy, but if people want to give them money, let them. They're free to do whatever they want.

Kickstarter, despite their mantra, is a store, a popularity contest and a pseudo-charity, in addition to being an indie crowdfunding platform.
 
Azih said:
Yeah this one's fine.

No dollars mean he releases the game as is with a few months of finishing up.

Stretch goals all go into a more fully featured game as opposed to a small indie tech demo type thing.
Click to expand...

He's using the stretchgoals as the actual explanation for why he needs to money while he sets the 'funding' goal at 1 FUCKING DOLLAR so that he keeps everything gained toward the real funding goals.

It's disgusting.
 
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