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SC:Blacklist at E3 - Like real stealth, all the good stuff happens off-camera

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Since I couldn't find anyone talking about Splinter Cell Blacklist at E3 I guess I would do it.

If you ask me, this game feels like it will bomba hard. A year ago when it revealed, it showed us that they were going to be like DR3 and start chasing the CoD crowd. Fast forward a year later, I've been keeping my eyes on it inbetween. It looks like the dev team know what they are doing to bring it back to that Chaos Theory style of play (albeit faster) but they seem to be doing a piss poor job of telling everyone else that.

But hey, first stealth game released to feature a long-standing franchise replacing their main character's VO, that's got to count for something (and probably the first to reveal and stick to its guns on it).

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Let's start with their tepid trailer that aired during the Ubi conference. Must be a heck of a lack of confidence or the greater focus on next-gen that they decided a trailer was all they needed. I guess the game just got caught at a bad point between gens. Perhaps if next-gen wasn't dropping so soon, maybe this would've gotten a fair shake. I honestly think they could've made up for their stumbles from last year if they somehow got a few minutes to demo on stage properly, with real stealth and not kinect airstrikes. I won't even link to it because it was pretty meh and you can only find a recording of it played on the stage.

And then we have the more official E3 2013 trailer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C17M2Ccw4MY

Hey, looks pretty good, though it spends most of the time on the main story and flashes some SvM on the way.

Hey, at least Sam Fisher looks old again, right? (No one cares because Michael Ironside isn't the voice anymore, said everyone ever 365 days ago and also today)


Anyways, moving on, it seems like the Ubisoft Toronto team are really only showing two things off to the press outlets, London and Sabine Pass.

At least for London, a very classic-y dark-at-night SC map was shown off for the billionth time, except they showed a little bit more at the start of the mission, and some alternate paths that differed in previous showings of "Abandoned Mill"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=kWVWp5-uJ5A

Not much talking is done and it pretty much plays non-lethal though I'm sure someone will chime in and mention how X at timestamp mm:ss is totally a violation of the Ghost playstyle because Y and Z.

They do show one cool thing, which was doing non-lethal ledge takedowns: Instead of throwing them off the ledge, you just smack them unconscious against the edge and go on your merry way! Also sticky shocking someone with your flying drone gives you a mark and execute token. :lol at its finest.

Either way, that was a decent showing and it almost looked like it was running on a PC with 60fps (or my eyes are terrible and I can't tell the difference)

And the other level they showed off, all new was in Louisiana: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPogJvAXQ3s (the same previews to other outlets are all the same, really)

I don't even know what to say. I mean, unless for some reason the dev team is editing gods and somehow snipped out only 1/3 or 1/4 of the mission, then that is a really short mission. I don't mind the "chase" sequence at the end (and evidence points to it being not a chase sequence but you can probably sneakily tail the guy to the end of the level) but it seemed like there was a bunch of busywork just trying to platform towards an objective, then one small sandboxy room with some guards before the final segment. It might make more context in the game if it were a one-off or one other those missions connected to one of the characters as a sidequest (though mostly probably not). But mostly, it really seemed really short-lived and linear, not that it isn't a familiar thing in the series. Hopefully an odd one-off mission.

One thing I also took from this video (or a similar demo of the same level) is that you do get awarded ghost points if you don't raise the alarm at the end of specific segments. Even if you murder everyone efficiently beforehand. Just some food for thought (though you probably also get bonus awards for leaving them untouched).


So where was co-op? SvM? Arguably the stronger of their two game modes and something to keep people away from the supposed travesty that was the single player "America is innocent, why are you so mean, everyone" story and "No Ironside = no sale" haters can latch onto and show stuff, say, the stuff people want for people over the internet and can't attend E3 to see?

Oh that's right, it's on the show floor, almost tucked away like the perfect Splinter Cell instead of being show-y off-y and getting people excited even if they know in the back of their minds that they've committed light treason for not having Michael Ironside or keeping Mark and Execute.
 
There's absolutely a palpable lack of confidence with this title with the media direction. Do we push SP, co-op or SvM? They have no idea. Personally I've been impressed by the Perfectionist difficulty addition (no execute function/melee guards from back only/1 shot kill) and rollback to more stealth/ghost options but who knows what the final product is going to look like.
 
I'm totally on the fence when it comes to blacklist. Yes I like how they are possibly returning to the style of the first 3 games but I still don't like that Ironside was replaced. However If it turns out to be good I may pick it up when its cheap
 
It's pretty simple really. The general public doesn't want stealth. They want the things that have been shown in the press videos. The people that want the stealth and old style of SC (which seems to be mostly back thankfully) are going to be the ones that go and look for it just like you did here.

Look at what Ubi did with their long time forum members who had their doubts about Blacklist as an example. They flew them out to their studio and let them play the game any way they wanted. Then when those people got home most of them wrote about their experiences and how at ease they felt with the new game.

There's a thread around here somewhere with impressions from those guys posted in it.
 
If you ask me, this game feels like it will bomba hard.

I agree 100%. I feel (I hope) that the game is going to be good but there is zero buzz around it, Ubi looks like doesn't care and with the next gen and some AAA games coming very soon after Blacklist is realesed, the game is dead from day 1.
 
It's pretty simple really. The general public doesn't want stealth. They want the things that have been shown in the press videos. The people that want the stealth and old style of SC (which seems to be mostly back thankfully) are going to be the ones that go and look for it just like you did here.

Look at what Ubi did with their long time forum members who had their doubts about Blacklist as an example. They flew them out to their studio and let them play the game any way they wanted. Then when those people got home most of them wrote about their experiences and how at ease they felt with the new game.

There's a thread around here somewhere with impressions from those guys posted in it.
To the normal person or even the occasionally gaffer, the game seems really unappealing even though they seem to have done a bang up job. It's more that they really haven't done a good job communicating it and it's still way too mired in what happened last year (all in a doozy - non-stealth and no MI) that people just wave it off.

Even my fairly lazy definition of what counts as an extensive search on the internet will tell you there is literally almost no chatter on this game. I'm literally baffled how if you browse to IGN that Blacklist is right under TLoU for "most anticipated upcoming games" (as in #2) when the official forums are pretty slow, no one on GAF talks about it and GB/IGN/GS game forums are pretty dead as well.
 
Honestly, I had really high hopes for Conviction back in the day—but the problem wasn't the concept they went with, but the fact that the concept was executed really poorly. I have no problems with concepts like mark and execute to help streamline the gameplay, but the real crime of the game was the fact that it was littered with all these weird, shitty "next-gen" (read: QTE/scripted-linear events) portions that completley went against everything I liked about Splinter Cell. this just looks like they're still moving in the wrong direction and took all the wrong lessons.
 
If someone took the time to dig through my search history, they'd see I enjoyed all the previous SC's and was looking forward to this one.

I played it yesterday.. and came away not feeling very good about the title.

I'm hoping it was just that segment I was playing :/
 
I share your feelings. This game has bomb written all over. Ubisoft killed the franchise by taking to long between games, and making them more accessible to the CoD crowd.
 
I'm afraid that after Blacklist, it's going to be a very long wait until the next Splinter Cell iteration.
I heard SC7 was already rumoured to be a thing. Which is a shame really because for the most part if you listen to impressions from people who have played it from the community that got flown to Toronto, especially, it seems like they really brought back the Chaos Theory feeling of levels being sandboxes in of themselves.

Really the only next logical step forward is to include the outer area of a level as part of the challenge. Especially with the open-world-ification of next-gen games and MGSV's showing of "holy shit open world stealth" I feel like just plopping you five feet from the front door of a level is not acceptable anymore and even proper infiltration is required. There is some here but some of it is more linear. Dunno if we'll ever see a more open Splinter Cell game to put Chaos Theory down a peg. CT was honestly just missing the "we can only insert you one mile away from the target building, you have to get there" feeling.

If someone took the time to dig through my search history, they'd see I enjoyed all the previous SC's and was looking forward to this one.

I played it yesterday.. and came away not feeling very good about the title.

I'm hoping it was just that segment I was playing :/
Did you play London or was it Louisiana? Or did they show off anything else? Honestly they showed off London so much at this point I could probably map 80% of it in my head.
 
To the normal person or even the occasionally gaffer, the game seems really unappealing even though they seem to have done a bang up job. It's more that they really haven't done a good job communicating it and it's still way too mired in what happened last year (all in a doozy - non-stealth and no MI) that people just wave it off.

Even my fairly lazy definition of what counts as an extensive search on the internet will tell you there is literally almost no chatter on this game. I'm literally baffled how if you browse to IGN that Blacklist is right under TLoU for "most anticipated upcoming games" (as in #2) when the official forums are pretty slow, no one on GAF talks about it and GB/IGN/GS game forums are pretty dead as well.

There's been quite a few gaf threads about it, but until the official thread comes around there isn't a whole lot to talk about. There's also the fact that because of Conviction most people visit the threads to talk about how they know it's going to be horrible. People don't want to have discussions in threads like that about anything so they just die. It comes out at a time where not a whole lot else comes out (besides SR4) so I think it will do fine. Conviction did better commercially than a lot of people expected. I imagine the marketing push will come closer to release but who knows what side of the game it's going to focus on. I'm guessing it'll be the more action side along with some SvM stuff.
 
Dear Ubisoft Toronto,

Make a Perfectionist level playthrough video. Show the restrictions, show the difficulty. The mechanics are there, stop being dense and FFS get one of the testers to do it. The team members you've brought along to demo the game have been mostly awful at the game with 0 showmanship. (Although the recent video with Maxime had the player use sleeping gas via sticky cam for a helmeted enemy type and then shoot the helmet off so he'd breathe it in. Neat trick! Surprise us more often) I remember the stealth video for Conviction getting a lot of buzz because that's what people wanted to see, not "Jack Bauer's Shooty McBang in Motion 4". Play to the series strength. You cannot compete with the action games out there, stop pushing in that direction. How do you not know this by now?
 
The gameplay I've seen looked better than expected. Not sure what your criticism is... that one demo level felt short?
 
There's been quite a few gaf threads about it, but until the official thread comes around there isn't a whole lot to talk about. There's also the fact that because of Conviction most people visit the threads to talk about how they know it's going to be horrible. People don't want to have discussions in threads like that about anything so they just die. It comes out at a time where not a whole lot else comes out (besides SR4) so I think it will do fine. Conviction did better commercially than a lot of people expected. I imagine the marketing push will come closer to release but who knows what side of the game it's going to focus on. I'm guessing it'll be the more action side along with some SvM stuff.
They have about 60 days and I'm sure they are going to go gold in 20 or 30. They really have to push hard the last two months because they really don't fill me with confidence if I turn off the "well I've been looking into this game since january; stockholm syndrome" in my head. Sub-3 minute videos are the more common thing than either ~10 minute long dev diaries or gameplay segments seem to be relatively sparse.

The gameplay I've seen looked better than expected. Not sure what your criticism is... that one demo level felt short?
The first new thing they show getting close to going gold/launch is a really, really brief, almost linear showcase in a part of the game most people probably got tired of having shown when SvM is probably their biggest thing right now because everyone missed it when Conviction released.
 
I've never played a splinter cell game, and I'm iffy about it because I don't normally play stealth stuff (ie like mgs).

I preordered this for Wii u today for 40 bucks. Will I regret it?
 
I've never played a splinter cell game, and I'm iffy about it because I don't normally play stealth stuff (ie like mgs).

I preordered this for Wii u today for 40 bucks. Will I regret it?

I tend to get nervous anytime someone asks this about a title with a multiplayer component on WiiU. Why enter that minefield? Do you have no other option?
 
Yeah, I watched a stage demo yesterday and it made me more optimistic than I had been. Looked pretty solid and I was glad to hear most of the co-op levels can also be played solo.
 
As long as the gameplay's as fun as Conviction (which I did enjoy), I will pick this up. Well, as long as it's longer, cause Conviction was over in a flash. Like a nervous teen's first time.
 
There's been quite a few gaf threads about it, but until the official thread comes around there isn't a whole lot to talk about. There's also the fact that because of Conviction most people visit the threads to talk about how they know it's going to be horrible. People don't want to have discussions in threads like that about anything so they just die. It comes out at a time where not a whole lot else comes out (besides SR4) so I think it will do fine. Conviction did better commercially than a lot of people expected. I imagine the marketing push will come closer to release but who knows what side of the game it's going to focus on. I'm guessing it'll be the more action side along with some SvM stuff.
Sucks, I'm doing it and I'm going to keep that OT flippant as fuck (though not as good as Shit Mountain will ever be). I am the problem.
 
I tend to get nervous anytime someone asks this about a title with a multiplayer component on WiiU. Why enter that minefield? Do you have no other option?

Yep. I tend to game the majority of my gaming on high end PC, but I thought I'd give the Nintendo console some shooter love as well rather than another platformer. It was either this or watch dogs for the Wii u, and I think I'll be getting watch dogs on PC as well, as it will take advantage of the beefier hardware much better. This one was built primarily for 360, with assets targeting that hardware level, which would translate more to console IQ

Because the Wii u online is free, I don't mind lower player counts. It's the game I wanted an opinion on, not its multiplayer. I've never played any SC title or most stealth titles in general, so I was asking those here with massive experience whether I should continue the pre order.
 
I've never played a splinter cell game, and I'm iffy about it because I don't normally play stealth stuff (ie like mgs).

I preordered this for Wii u today for 40 bucks. Will I regret it?

How did you get it for 40? I'm probably buying this for my Wii U as well.
 
I'm going to wait on reviews. I don't know much about the title, but I do enjoy stealth games and I have fond memories of the first SC on Xbox (the only one I've ever played).
 
Yep. I tend to game the majority of my gaming on high end PC, but I thought I'd give the Nintendo console some shooter love as well rather than another platformer. It was either this or watch dogs for the Wii u, and I think I'll be getting watch dogs on PC as well, as it will take advantage of the beefier hardware much better. This one was built primarily for 360, with assets targeting that hardware level, which would translate more to console IQ

Because the Wii u online is free, I don't mind. It's the game I wanted an opinion on, not its multiplayer

Overall this is probably the best one to jump into in the recent years. It seems to have something for every time of player (those looking for a more confrontational or direct approach/cover based shooter/ghost) Did you play the Arkham games at all? The feeling of being powerful in the stealth rooms in that game is pretty similar to the overall feel of these. Lots of customization in terms of gear, weapons. Length of campaign unknown to me but they're usually pretty replay friendly. I've been with the series since it first launched on the Xbox and have found something to enjoy in every outing. People have different tastes though so I'm not entirely sure it'll be your cup of tea.
 
I wonder if there will be a demo of this before it releases. Would really like to know what I'm getting into before I decide to buy this on the Wii U.
 
I wonder if there will be a demo of this before it releases. Would really like to know what I'm getting into before I decide to buy this on the Wii U.

I feel like they're having a rough enough time just trying to make this thing feature complete. I'd say no.
 
Because the Wii u online is free, I don't mind lower player counts. It's the game I wanted an opinion on, not its multiplayer. I've never played any SC title or most stealth titles in general, so I was asking those here with massive experience whether I should continue the pre order.
The WiiU version shouldn't be too far off though I don't know about what you can do co-op wise with the gamepad (I don't have a WiiU) nor have they said much. I'll try to dig and see if I can find out.

Otherwise the game seems to be shaping up to be at least pretty good, though they sure as shit aren't doing a good job at it.

If you are new to stealth though: Stealth is more systemic gameplay at its best, as stealth games have been and should continue to strive to be. How this works is that the devs have to basically craft something that exists without pre-existing player interaction and it has to run on its own. The appeal for stealth is that you are an intruder, an external thing intruding a pre-existing system and your personal satisfaction comes from how you wish to navigate it to achieve your goals; whether that be disabling guards, sneaking past them or going murder-fun-kill-spree (either loud or quietly). If you get spotted or someone notices your disturbances, they react organically, and it's up to you if you wish to continue with the elevated level of alert or to rewind and try to continue, the system undisturbed.

tl;dr, you can sneak past stuff and feel like a boss because it means you were smarter/outwitted the AI because they never knew you were there, or you enjoyed how the system cascaded out interesting yet believably when you did disturb it.
 
I have indeed played/enjoyed the Arkham games. So I will be taking a chance on this at 40 bucks. Comes from my home town too, so hopefully I'll enjoy my first splinter cell :)
 
Amazing OP. :thumbs up:

I love Blacklist so far. I always wanted it and its looks like the Chaos Theory beater is finally here.
 
So, apparently also like Blacklist, this got lost in the shuffle:

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There is a companion game called Spider Bot that got put on (for free) on the apple app store. Might also be coming out for android soon.

Looks like some of the points you get there will also give you fun bucks for Blacklist later on.


edit: Day 3, looks like they are on stage with IGN, though not expecting anything new. Adam Sessler from Rev3 is doing and interview, so probably no new footage but he seems really enthusiastic about the game since last January. Maybe he'll coax something new out of Beland today.
 
I guess the last Splinter Cell really damaged the franchise. But the gameplay looks really good classic Splinter Cell and its coming out for the WII U so I'll probably pick it up.

Hopefully this game does good and they really promote it. Its a shame it is getting lost in all the next gen shuffle because its coming for Ubisoft Toronto and i want them to be successful.
 
Here's some shaky cam footage of the Ubi stage showing Spies vs Mercs classic (2v2)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=gxMFAyQM1qE

really shaky at times but finally get to see something a bit more contiguous that isn't trailer snippets.

One cool feature is when the merc dies he doesn't spec his partner like spies do but they spec from security cameras throughout the map. I had read this earlier but is nice to see in action.
 
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For anyone still interested, there wasn't really anything new to show.

Well, wait, I have this really short SvM (Classic) video that someone recorded. Apologies for the really shaky cam footage (not mine) but that's honestly really all you could find.

I just noticed I posted that already.

Some interviews:
Jack Frags interviews game director Patrick Redding
Jack Frags interviews SvM producer Sebastien Ebacher
Adam Sessler (Rev 3) interviews creative director Maxime Beland (as seen above)

There was also one with IGN but that was rather meh and more of the same. Sessler somehow coaxed 15 minutes out of an interview but mostly because he is rather enthusiastic about the game moreso than some other showings at E3 which is the only reason I even bothered linking it.

Gameplay
It's really just the Sabine Pass level again but here is some direct feeds, so no commentary or anything:
Part 1
Part 2
Part 3
And again for good measure:
Stage demo, Spies vs Mercs Classic
 
I'd be much more excited about it if Ironside was still doing Sam. I enjoy my dumb action game fill. If it turns out to be a decent stealth game too, even better. I'm not expecting that though.
 
Definitely agree about the total lack of coverage and coverage, but really it looks like a good stealth game. Splinter Cell is not really a series I'm in any way married to. I mean I loved the first 3, like Conviction, and hated Double Agent. Overall it look likes a good fun stealth game and I plan on playing it as such, nothing more, nothing less.
 
I'm really happy that they're giving us more choices on how to play. The gameplay pillars of aggro, predator, and ghost should have been in Conviction in the first place.

Mark and execute still bothers me though. It made much more sense in Ghost Recon Future Soldier since the mechanic was used to coordinate with your AI squad buddies.
 
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