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Xbox asks Machinma to Add Disclaimers on content.(seperate from main thread)

http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/01...ying-youtubers-for-positive-xbox-one-coverage

""Microsoft was not aware of individual contracts Machinima had with their content providers as part of this promotion and we didn’t provide feedback on any of the videos. We have asked Machinima to not post any additional Xbox One content as part of this media buy and we have asked them to add disclaimers to the videos that were part of this program indicating they were part of paid advertising.""
 

Savitar

Member
Yeah got to call bullshit on that one.

A major company like MS is not one to let details slip, they check and recheck everything before any deals are made.
 

MadLukas

Banned
Yeah got to call bullshit on that one.

A major company like MS is not one to let details slip, they check and recheck everything before any deals are made.

I totally trust them, with the same non-reasons anybody has who doesnt believe them.
 

Jburton

Banned
Damage control and nothing more.


Like a kid caught with his hand in the cookie jar giving a bumbling, stumbling response.
 

DeviantBoi

Member
One thing is the disclosure clause not being there. Then maybe people would think it was an oversight and maybe that's why there were no disclosures on the videos.

Another thing is the disclosure clause changed to a non-disclosure clause - something which is now illegal.

It's Microsoft money that paid for the campaign. There is no way that they're paying money for something that their legal department hasn't approved.
 

AlexMogil

Member
Bullshit, Microsoft knew what was going on.

"Microsoft was not aware of individual contracts Machinima had with their content providers as part of this promotion and we didn’t provide feedback on any of the videos."

I don't think it's possible that Microsoft could or would vet every single piece of media that such content providers as Jake04432x would have provided.

They still shouldn't have provided money in this media buy, it was the wrong way to go about this.
 

mdtauk

Member
Yeah got to call bullshit on that one.

A major company like MS is not one to let details slip, they check and recheck everything before any deals are made.

Not to defend either side in this shady (but sadly typical) deal, but I think it is likely that the Microsoft marketing department contacted Machinima with this proposal (or were approached by Machinima) and then the communication and terms between Machinima and the partners was handled by Machinima themselves.

As you say it is unusual for Microsoft to make a mistake like this with their strong legal department, but we have seen onerous T&Cs before which were worded too broad, and were then re-written to be clear.

Incompetence or mistake, rather than intentional malice.
 
Not that I'm trying to defend them or anything, I hate anything illegal even if I do like them but I'm going to take this quote from the main thread.


This is what I've been trying to tell people as someone who actually works in the advertising/media buying industry.

Most companies, MS, Nintendo, Sony. Apple, Dodge, P&G etc. do not buy their own ads and media. They have several agencies on record who do that for them. They can have several creative agencies split by different media, so one creative team works on online, another TV for example, and can have several that cover the buying of media space. usually a separate agency for Social, and a separate for buying online, print and TV. These are the agencies who deal with the likes of Machinima when it comes to this stuff.

Being someone who works for a media agency, and who has experienced campaigns like this (mommy blogs specifically, I don't have any of the videogame companies as a client) I can tell you media agencies, and their clients rarely if ever know the specific terms between a content creator (ie. blog writer, youtube content creator) and their respective publishers. We simply ask for a proposal on media plans (be it rich media, pre-roll, advertorials etc.) within a set budget, they promise us a certain amount of impressions and clicks based on that budget, and thats it. We don't see what happens after the sales rep sends us an Insertion order. All we get to see is that the IO has a set number of impressions for a set budget, for a certain time period, and creative specs required (300x250, 30 second preroll etc)

In no instance have I ever seen specifically what deals my sales reps and the content creators have between themselves and only a single one of my clients (autos) specifically mentioned they wanted it to be clear they were sponsoring a similar program to this.

Of course most people chose to either believe I'm defending MS specifically, or ignored what I said in this thread when attempting to clarify what happens in the industry. I firmly believe, based on my experience, that this is on Machinima.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=754946&page=76
 

Tsundere

Banned
Not to defend either side in this shady (but sadly typical) deal, but I think it is likely that the Microsoft marketing department contacted Machinima with this proposal (or were approached by Machinima) and then the communication and terms between Machinima and the partners was handled by Machinima themselves.

As you say it is unusual for Microsoft to make a mistake like this with their strong legal department, but we have seen onerous T&Cs before which were worded too broad, and were then re-written to be clear.

Incompetence or mistake, rather than intentional malice.

So, every other CPM YouTube campaign prior to this one had no non-disclosure clause, but this one happened to have it? Machinima even came out and said it was a "standard contract".
 
Not that I'm trying to defend them or anything, I hate anything illegal even if I do like them but I'm going to take this quote from the main thread.




http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=754946&page=76

The thing is... if you are paying money to fund some advertising through a firm, you better have some oversight as to what that firm is doing. You cannot just say, "Well, we thought this and that." Responsibility should not be so easy to shove off.
 

QaaQer

Member
Not to defend either side in this shady (but sadly typical) deal, but I think it is likely that the Microsoft marketing department contacted Machinima with this proposal (or were approached by Machinima) and then the communication and terms between Machinima and the partners was handled by Machinima themselves.

As you say it is unusual for Microsoft to make a mistake like this with their strong legal department, but we have seen onerous T&Cs before which were worded too broad, and were then re-written to be clear.

Incompetence or mistake, rather than intentional malice.

yeah, except for the fact that microsoft makes extensive use of astroturfing and has done so for decades, including here on gaf. It fits the pattern.
 
So, every other CPM YouTube campaign prior to this one had no non-disclosure clause, but this one happened to have it? Machinima even came out and said it was a "standard contract".

I think that could be Machinima trying to save face and actually not Microsoft this time, they probably have exclusive deals with every publisher for promotional content since that's were most of their ad revenue comes from. They gotta make it some how. I'm not a fan of Microsoft right now, this is illegal but I'm even a bigger hater of Machinma for this.
 

Tsundere

Banned
I think that could be Machinima trying to save face and actually not Microsoft this time, they probably have exclusive deals with every publisher for promotional content since that's were most of their ad revenue comes from. They gotta make it some how. I'm not a fan of Microsoft right now, this is illegal but I'm even a bigger hater of Machinma for this.

Don't think you get what I was trying to point at... Why did this particular contract have a non-disclosure clause in it? Why did Machinima lie and say it was "standard"? Somebody at Microsoft or Machinima wanted that clause added into the contract.
 

LTWheels

Member
Yeah got to call bullshit on that one.

A major company like MS is not one to let details slip, they check and recheck everything before any deals are made.

MS would only involved in the contract for the advertising deal with Machinma. They would not be party to individual contracts between Machinima and their content providers.
 
Not to defend either side in this shady (but sadly typical) deal, but I think it is likely that the Microsoft marketing department contacted Machinima with this proposal (or were approached by Machinima) and then the communication and terms between Machinima and the partners was handled by Machinima themselves.

As you say it is unusual for Microsoft to make a mistake like this with their strong legal department, but we have seen onerous T&Cs before which were worded too broad, and were then re-written to be clear.

Incompetence or mistake, rather than intentional malice.

If MS were the ones paying the YouTubers directly, you can bet your arse any contract between MS and Machinima was checked and signed off by MS's legal department. I don't believe a mistake like this would have happened and I find their excuses very weak.
 

DenogginizerOS

BenjaminBirdie's Thomas Jefferson
This is almost like how they handle game releases. They pushed out a faulty product, ignored claims by people they made a mistake hoping it would go away, eventually acknowledged a problem exists, put blame on someone else, and then pushed out a fix that really doesn't address the biggest problems.
 

alr1ght

bish gets all the credit :)
Doesn't Machinima have a history of bad contracts? It just might be their fuckup after all.

This confidentiality clause just magically showed up for this deal and only this deal.

2GyfwGm.png
 
post-20629-Will-Ferrell-Anchorman-gif-I-d-abQm.gif


Come on...we arent that fucking stupid MS...come on

BC of ths shitstorm, the above gif is going to get used a looooot more from now on. Everyone's credibility after this is shot imo.
 
So how does that explain the glaring difference between this contract and the previous contracts they'd drawn up for their partners?

I'll take Scapegoats, for 100.
 

watership

Member
Not to defend either side in this shady (but sadly typical) deal, but I think it is likely that the Microsoft marketing department contacted Machinima with this proposal (or were approached by Machinima) and then the communication and terms between Machinima and the partners was handled by Machinima themselves.

As you say it is unusual for Microsoft to make a mistake like this with their strong legal department, but we have seen onerous T&Cs before which were worded too broad, and were then re-written to be clear.

Incompetence or mistake, rather than intentional malice.

You are most likely correct, this probably what actually happened. However people want to believe MS is a purposefully evil corporation and that they originated this on purpose.

Here is MS logic matrix, according to it's detractors: Microsoft is incompetent and if this was an oversight it's because they're a poorly run corp OR Microsoft is evil and did this on purpose. Those two arguments automatically cover all criticism. Instead of more reasonable things like the reality of a worldwide corporations full of layers of individuals working in media/ads/marketing.

Saying all that, I hate this stuff, and have for awhile. For years I've questioned motivation for enthusiast blogs/youtube stuff.
 

Tsundere

Banned
Weren't the contracts we saw between Machinima and the content producer and wouldn't there have been a different contract between MS and Machinima?

Obviously yes, the problem lies where an illegal non-disclosure clause found its way onto a "standard contract" for a "standard CPM campaign" despite their past contracts for the same "standard CPM campaigns" had no such illegal clause.

Someone asked for it to be there.
They're either incompetent or liars in this story.

TmiCNxG.gif
 

DenogginizerOS

BenjaminBirdie's Thomas Jefferson
Weren't the contracts we saw between Machinima and the content producer and wouldn't there have been a different contract between MS and Machinima?
Regardless, someone from Microsoft had to see these videos firsthand and notice the disclaimers were absent (if they actually cared).
 

Azih

Member
Yeah we'd need to see the contract that MS had with Machinima to know if MS knew of any shady business. What we have is Machinima's contracts with their contractors which is pretty damn bad but it's not damning. Plus MS would not have fixed their shit if this hadn't come out in public.
 

QaaQer

Member
You are most likely correct, this probably what actually happened. However people want to believe MS is a purposefully evil corporation and that they originated this on purpose.

Here is MS logic matrix, according to it's detractors: Microsoft is incompetent and if this was an oversight it's because they're a poorly run corp OR Microsoft is evil and did this on purpose. Those two arguments automatically cover all criticism. Instead of more reasonable things like the reality of a worldwide corporations full of layers of individuals working in media/ads/marketing.

Saying all that, I hate this stuff, and have for awhile. For years I've questioned motivation for enthusiast blogs/youtube stuff.

So MS has no idea about the illegal shills here on gaf? The astrotuf groups in Europe lobying for that google monopoly review? or those letters from dead people to senators during their own anti-trust suit? All rogue pr firms I guess. MS sure has bad luck.
 

Tsundere

Banned
Yeah we'd need to see the contract that MS had with Machinima to know if MS knew of any shady business. What we have is Machinima's contracts with their contractors which is pretty damn bad but it's not damning. Plus MS would not have fixed their shit if this hadn't come out in public.

It's damning when the same type of contract that was giving out in recent and apst CPm campaigns had no illegal non-disclosure clause. They even qualified it as "standard"; which was a blatant lie.
 
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