• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Expectations for L4D3 regarding eSports and monetization?

A

ashecitism

Member
EatChildren made a Left 4 Dead 3: What do you want, and how would you grow the formula? thread a while ago, that was rather about gameplay. I figured I focus on these two aspects. I'm not really familiar with the series, but seeing what Valve has been doing with TF2, Dota2 and CS:GO, what are your expectations?

Does this series have a competitive scene? If no, can you see Valve pushing for one? Do you expect it to be F2P or something like GO? How are they going to monetize it; with hats or weapon skins, or both, or league passes or something like the operations in GO?
 
L

L~A

Member
I don't think there's a big competitive scene for L4D2... I remember a big tournament a few years ago, but that's it. Nothing like The International or the CS:)GO) stuff.

I also expect some sort of monetization, but something "subtle" like CS:GO, no hats or anything like TF2.
 
D

Doombacon

Member
There is a good chance they will apply the crates monetization model that their other games use.

eSports in a asymmetrical multiplayer game that has little to no competitive scene already seems like an extremely low priority goal for Valve.
 
P

Prophet Steve

Member
Team Fortress 2 and Dota 2 both have some experiments with coop events. It doesn't necessarily need to be a highly competitively focused game. Although I would expect they would make some major changes to versus anyway to make the PvP aspects a lot more fun.

I doubt they will have a competitive focus though, it has very asymmetrical gameplay, which would make it pretty hard.
 
G

Guevara

Member
To be honest I think the two most likely scenarios are either Valve doesn't make L4D3 because they are no longer interested in such games; or they make something that is barely recognizable as a L4D game.
 
D

Draft

Member
L4D3 will have dress up. Valve has been pretty good about keeping the silhouettes of TF2 characters distinct while allowing players numerous customization options. They will take that knowledge and build out distinct survivors and infected with tons of options for premium shirts, hats, accessories, masks, who the hell knows.

I could also see a greater emphasis on PvP. Human vs. purely AI controlled enemies may be the afterthought game mode with most effort and marketing going into human survivors vs. human special infected w/ AI back up. If they go that route I bet competitive balance and spectator observation will be considered critical.
 
Jawmuncher

Jawmuncher

Member
It can be competitve in a sense, but unless some major revisions are made to the formula no way can it ever enter esports.

As for Monetization if they stick with something like CS:GO that's fine by me.
 
A

ashecitism

Member
Doombacon said:
eSports in a asymmetrical multiplayer game that has little to no competitive scene already seems like an extremely low priority goal for Valve.
Click to expand...

Prophet Steve said:
I doubt they will have a competitive focus though, it has very asymmetrical gameplay, which would make it pretty hard.
Click to expand...

Doesn't Turtle Rock want to venture into eSports with Evolve or did I misread it somewhere? I mean it's basically 4 humans vs a huge monster.
 
Marvel

Marvel

could never
Not interested in competive stuff but more appearance customization is just lovely. I really don't mind spending a few bucks on stuff like that because it doesn't change gameplay in the slightest.
 
M

mrpeabody

Member
L4D is a bad fit for esports, and I don't expect Valve to go down that road.

The monetization question is very interesting. Obviously there will be hats and weapon skins. The big question imo is do they charge $60 up front or is it F2P?
 
S

SteveWinwood

Member
Infinite Ammo said:
Not interested in competive stuff but more appearance customization is just lovely. I really don't mind spending a few bucks on stuff like that because it doesn't change gameplay in the slightest.
Click to expand...

The best part is you wouldn't have to even spend money on it because tons of it would drop and you just have some free customization options.
 
H

HK-47

Oh, bitch bitch bitch.
Dont see them pushing competitive. I do see them pushing microtransactions. Makes me wonder whether all the workshop skins that 2 has are now going to be drops.
 
T

Tempy

don't ask me for codes
L4D2 had various game modes via Mutations. I wouldn't mind if they made a main mode which was more competitive, as long as they keep the cooperative modes as well.
 
P

Prophet Steve

Member
ashecitism said:
Doesn't Turtle Rock want to venture into eSports with Evolve or did I misread it somewhere? I mean it's basically 4 humans vs a huge monster.
Click to expand...

I haven't read that at all. I think that would be kind of a bad decision tbh, as a asymmetrical number of players makes it even more hard. Not only in terms of balancing, but think of how you would switch sides.

Of course it is possible if they really want it.
 
L

Lord of Castamere

Member
I just want L4D3 to be a 60$ title, release on Ps4, and stay updated with the Pc version for 3 years. Do that and they can put as many hats as they want in the game.
 
A

ashecitism

Member
Prophet Steve said:
I haven't read that at all. I think that would be kind of a bad decision tbh, as a asymmetrical number of players makes it even more hard. Not only in terms of balancing, but think of how you would switch sides.

Of course it is possible if they really want it.
Click to expand...

Well, don't take my word for it. I just recall when the Gameinformer details started to surface someone specifically mentioned eSports. ugh, need to find that quote

edit:

maybe this was it

There also seems to be some sort of Esports element in the game. Turtle Rock recently hired a Community Manager that was at Riot and Treyarch before. He has been hinting in the last couple of days that something is coming and very recently started following Andy McNamara from Game Informer on Twitter.
Click to expand...

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=96174616&postcount=1037

well, it's just speculation
 
N

Nzyme32

Member
I have very little evidence to go on, so this is incredibly outlandish, and I apologise in advance...but..

I think left for dead 3 will also bring a separate product along side it. A simple biometric sensor. My only evidence of this is the few mentions of biometrics being strongly hinted as being taken at the earlobe as part of a VR headset, but more recently at steam dev days a mention of a "specific product" for that. Since they were so into biometrics as an idea, and skin galvanic sensors are relatively cheap to produce, it might make sense combined with a headset (measuring at the earlobe) or an armband of some description.

If that were the case, then you open the door to a lot of interesting things. Single player and multiplayer open up to dynamic enemies and player states, which could lead to more cooperative stylings of play. That also applies to competitive play, though that may be done in a way that utilises in game enemies.

Disregarding that, competitive play turning into an esport for left for dead is a possibility, but since left for dead has never been purely competitive, it would have to be some sort of new game type or mechanic. But since it is successful and popular, it is quite likely they will maybe have a separate multiplayer attachment to the game like hl2 deathmatch was. Eventually they build it up with all kinds of in game trinkets and then go free to play to encourage users to join in... or something
 
V

Vinterbird

Member
legacyzero said:
If that's what you wanna call it, sure.

COMPETITIVE is one thing. eSports is another.

And monetization? Hmmmmm. I'd rather not.
Click to expand...

Get used to the idea. There is no way that L4D3 won't have monetization.

The bigger question is whether the game will be F2P or not.
 
A

ashecitism

Member
Yeah, ever since Valve started talking about biometrics and its use with the AI director I always thought L4D3 might be their showcase for it (like how people are expecting HL3 to be for VR). Well, depending if that product comes to fruition after all.
 
I

injurai

Banned
Nzyme32 said:
I have very little evidence to go on, so this is incredibly outlandish, and I apologise in advance...but..

I think left for dead 3 will also bring a separate product along side it. A simple biometric sensor. My only evidence of this is the few mentions of biometrics being strongly hinted as being taken at the earlobe as part of a VR headset, but more recently at steam dev days a mention of a "specific product" for that. Since they were so into biometrics as an idea, and skin galvanic sensors are relatively cheap to produce, it might make sense combined with a headset (measuring at the earlobe) or an armband of some description.

If that were the case, then you open the door to a lot of interesting things. Single player and multiplayer open up to dynamic enemies and player states, which could lead to more cooperative stylings of play. That also applies to competitive play, though that may be done in a way that utilises in game enemies.

Disregarding that, competitive play turning into an esport for left for dead is a possibility, but since left for dead has never been purely competitive, it would have to be some sort of new game type or mechanic. But since it is successful and popular, it is quite likely they will maybe have a separate multiplayer attachment to the game like hl2 deathmatch was. Eventually they build it up with all kinds of in game trinkets and then go free to play to encourage users to join in... or something
Click to expand...

It would be amazing to get a biometrics device along side it. I certainly would buy that immediately, especially if it's under $50. I don't buy games day 1 all that much anymore, but I would certainly dish out the money for both the game and the product instantly.

Already the L4D Director is probably my favorite procedural AI ever implemented into a game. It's actions are certainly meaningful and drastic, and to take biometrics into account would be amazing to experience.
 
D

Delusibeta

Banned
I think it's a terrible game to try to wedge it into eSports. That said, I could see them try cosmetic customisation and tie the monetisation to that (assuming it's a free to play game, which is won't).
 
O

Orayn

Member
You know what I could see them doing for user created content? Releasing an easy to use level editor that would allow people to share campaigns via Steam Workshop and maybe even monetize them through some sort of Greenlight-esque process.

Dunno about eSports. They could maybe make it work for Versus mode, but it'd be a stretch.
 
I

injurai

Banned
Orayn said:
You know what I could see them doing for user created content? Releasing an easy to use level editor that would allow people to share campaigns via Steam Workshop and maybe even monetize them through some sort of Greenlight-esque process.

Dunno about eSports. They could maybe make it work for Versus mode, but it'd be a stretch.
Click to expand...

It was pretty painful from my experience getting custom levels working in L4D2 in order to run them with friends. Too my communication. TF2 was easy because you would download them from servers, not to mention Valve helped add a ton of community ones through the years.

Getting a proper workshop pipeline for custom levels would be huge.
 
V

vazel

Banned
I'm continually surprised at how many people don't know about the L4D competitive scene. They play using the ProMod config. There's currently a tournament going on using ProMod; check this Twitch channel for casts. Check out l4dnation.com for more info on the competitive scene.

I do hope Valve supports a promod-like mode in L4D3 instead of it having to be done with mods on user-hosted servers.
 
N

Nzyme32

Member
injurai said:
It would be amazing to get a biometrics device along side it. I certainly would buy that immediately, especially if it's under $50. I don't buy games day 1 all that much anymore, but I would certainly dish out the money for both the game and the product instantly.

Already the L4D Director is probably my favorite procedural AI ever implemented into a game. It's actions are certainly meaningful and drastic, and to take biometrics into account would be amazing to experience.
Click to expand...

Found the quote I was refering to here: http://youtu.be/UfN5WK7OzU8?t=40m41s

But yeah I hope so, I think people would be surprised at what a difference it can make to actually understand what makes a player tick and then to manipulate that, whether it's enemies, lighting, sound, the map itself etc
 
I

injurai

Banned
Nzyme32 said:
Found the quote I was referring to here: http://youtu.be/UfN5WK7OzU8?t=40m41s

But yeah I hope so, I think people would be surprised at what a difference it can make to actually understand what makes a player tick and then to manipulate that, whether it's enemies, lighting, sound, the map itself etc
Click to expand...

awesome thanks, I'll listen when I get home.

Not sure how insane Valve would be willing to get with the director, but it would be hilarious to implement stuff like flooding ruining ammo or washing away ammo stashes. Just having the player watch as the current takes it away right in front of them before they got to it.

Probably don't need biometrics for that, but I can't wait to see what they do with this next installment.
 
A

ashecitism

Member
injurai said:
awesome thanks, I'll listen when I get home.

Not sure how insane Valve would be willing to get with the director, but it would be hilarious to implement stuff like flooding ruining ammo or washing away ammo stashes. Just having the player watch as the current takes it away right in front of them before they got to it.
Click to expand...

From what they talked last year, a possible simple scenario is if a player is bored then the director makes more zombies attack them, or if they're too stressed out then they leave them alone, or at least focus on other players more.
 
I

injurai

Banned
ashecitism said:
From what they talked last year, a possible simple scenario is if a player is bored then the director makes more zombies attack them, or if they're too stressed out then they leave them alone, or at least focus on other players more.
Click to expand...

I'm sure a lot of the biometrics will be subtle and will mostly go to lengths to appropriately handle the subtleties that involve the players psyche.

But let your hands get sweaty and I hope you start failing to reload your gun.
 
H

HK-47

Oh, bitch bitch bitch.
Orayn said:
You know what I could see them doing for user created content? Releasing an easy to use level editor that would allow people to share campaigns via Steam Workshop and maybe even monetize them through some sort of Greenlight-esque process.

Dunno about eSports. They could maybe make it work for Versus mode, but it'd be a stretch.
Click to expand...

Monetizing levels wouldnt work. It would actively make people just stick to 2 with its 100s of custom free levels.
 
A

Angelus Errare

Banned
Draft said:
L4D3 will have dress up. Valve has been pretty good about keeping the silhouettes of TF2 characters distinct while allowing players numerous customization options. They will take that knowledge and build out distinct survivors and infected with tons of options for premium shirts, hats, accessories, masks, who the hell knows.

I could also see a greater emphasis on PvP. Human vs. purely AI controlled enemies may be the afterthought game mode with most effort and marketing going into human survivors vs. human special infected w/ AI back up. If they go that route I bet competitive balance and spectator observation will be considered critical.
Click to expand...

Pretty much what I see being the main model. At times I feel that developers vastly underestimate how powerful a well made customization model can be as far as bringing in revenue. Allowing users access to 99% of customization options without paying but having a pay option really can print money if done well. Unfortunately many developers are sadly horrible at implantation. I honestly for see Valve doing their TF2/DOTA2 model of allowing people to create customization items and sell them. It's less work for the developers to create items, and gives a near endless supply.
 
LAUGHTREY

LAUGHTREY

Modesty becomes a woman
How can you balance that game? Zombies vs Survivors? Competitive balance to me is everyone is on equal footing.

L4D VS the two teams aren't even playing the same game. Only one is playing a FPS, the other is playing something else entirely.

I mean, cmon. People blame AK47 vs M16 in CS and aren't they exactly the same?

That just sounds like silliness to me. I've played some L4D versus, it's super fun and all, but I don't feel like it's some balanced FPS type game where money should be on the line.
 
V

vazel

Banned
LAUGHTREY said:
How can you balance that game? Zombies vs Survivors? Competitive balance to me is everyone is on equal footing.

L4D VS the two teams aren't even playing the same game. Only one is playing a FPS, the other is playing something else entirely.

I mean, cmon. People blame AK47 vs M16 in CS and aren't they exactly the same?

That just sounds like silliness to me. I've played some L4D versus, it's super fun and all, but I don't feel like it's some balanced FPS type game where money should be on the line.
Click to expand...
Natural Selection 2 is an asymmetrical game that is highly competitive and with a healthy tournament scene. The competitiveness comes from both sides having to coordinate to achieve their objectives against the other side.

L4D2's competitive balancing comes from the promod config. But unfortunately due to it being a user-made mod that has to be played on user-hosted servers it doesn't get much exposure. The tournament scene also isn't as healthy as NS2's.
 
N

Nzyme32

Member
LAUGHTREY said:
How can you balance that game? Zombies vs Survivors? Competitive balance to me is everyone is on equal footing.

L4D VS the two teams aren't even playing the same game. Only one is playing a FPS, the other is playing something else entirely.

I mean, cmon. People blame AK47 vs M16 in CS and aren't they exactly the same?

That just sounds like silliness to me. I've played some L4D versus, it's super fun and all, but I don't feel like it's some balanced FPS type game where money should be on the line.
Click to expand...

One way would be to have a team of people as survivors and then a same size team of people in the role of zombies along side computer controlled zombies of increasing difficulty with time. Survivors die, and replay with the roles reversed.

Or a left 4 dead dota hybrid of survivors vs computer controlled zombies arranged in groups being directed by an opposing team each player controlling groups

I don't know but it would probably require a whole new set of game modes
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

EA Hopes to Use Generative AI to Drive Monetization and Make Development 30% More Efficient
Opinion Business Game Dev
27
2K
radewagon replied
Final Fantasy VII Rebirth proves that the future of the series should be iterative
47
3K
Icymanipulator replied
Valve says "technology doesn't exist" yet for full Steam Deck 2.0 | Half-Life maker has several games targeting current hardware in pipeline
News Hardware
37
4K
Klosshufvud replied
Destiny 2 has become a Microtransaction Hell. Will it affect the other live service games from Sony?
2 3
113
7K
nikos replied
Mike Ybarra Weighs in on Xbox
2
97
5K
Bradamante3D replied
Top Bottom