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Is it just me, or is Dark Souls II heavily inspiried by modern Zelda games?

Forkball

Member
GOOD GOD ALMIGHTY THERE'S SPOILERS FOR ALL OF DARK SOULS 2 ABANDON NOW

Dark-souls-ii-gameplay-screenshot-09.jpg


I know many have drawn parallels between Zelda and Dark Souls, and note how DS harkens back to the very early Zelda games that were more open and lacked explicit direction.

However, I feel that Dark Souls II takes a lot of inspiration from modern Zelda games, specifically OoT and beyond. For one, the way the characters direct your path in DSII is very similar to Zelda. While Skyward Sword basically said GO HERE GO HERE SPECIFICALLY, OoT gave you a broader overview of your goal. In DSII, character explain in detail specific points of interest and tips on how to get there. There are also a myriad of different characters explaining what paths you should take in DSII. It reminded me of the constant pop ups by Shiek, Kaepora, Impa etc.

And speaking of that, the Emerald Herald popping up at important segments of the game really reminded me of the aforementioned characters from Zelda that also suddenly appeared at important moments. You never really had a character like that in DS1, although NPCs did often reappear.

Another parallel is the types of NPCs you encounter. In DS1, the NPCs were basically human or undead (with the occasional snake or spider lady). In DS2, you have a diverse cast of races including humans, undead, ghosts, dwarves, imp things (red phantom covenant leader and belltower guys), cats, rats, decapitated heads, scorpion people, bird people, and more. The diversity reminded me of the large cast of different characters and races you'd find in a Zelda title.

And speaking of the NPCs, some of them had a quirky sense of humor you'd find in Zelda. Dressing up that naked NPC really feels like one of those off-beat sidequests you'd see in Zelda. I feel like a few of them would fit right in at Hyrule Town Market.

DSII also introduces more puzzle mechanics, as simple as they may be. Specifically the Pharros Lockstones. These have many different purposes, but function in a way to change the layout of the level. Some basically work as bombs on cracked walls, allowing you into a secret room. Others, like the one on No Man's Wharf, completely changes the level and how you interact with it. It strongly reminds me of how you get to the midpoint of a Zelda dungeon and the layout or how you traverse it completely changes.

The biggest thing that stuck out to me was the Chariot boss. Is this thing not straight out of Zelda? The majority of the battle is a puzzle, where you have to dodge attacks and fend of minions. When you finish the puzzle part, phase two begins where you focus on attacking the boss. So many Zelda battles follow this format, while so many Dark Souls battles do not. It really stands out among all the other fights where you just start wailing/dodging from second one.

And I can't be the only one who saw parallels between Drangleic Castle and Ganon's Tower from OoT. Yeah, there are a lot of "castles as final levels" in video games, but when I first came upon DC in the dark with the rain and the words flashing on the screen, I instantly had Ganon's Tower vibes. Perhaps this was intentional? There are also the parallels of having to revisit DC to fight the final boss and going to Hyrule Castle early in the game, only to return again to fight the final boss there. And of course, seeing both Nashandra and Ganon in their normal forms early on, only to fight their true form.

"But Forkball, you stupid idiot, a lot of these elements from DSII were also in DSI." I think that's true to an extent, but I really felt like From pulled a lot of inspiration from Zelda this time around, specifically OoT. Does anyone feel the same way? Do you think future Dark Souls titles will be more akin to Zelda?
 
I was saying this about Demon's Souls back in 2009. Since I love Zelda, I really, really wanted to love Demon's Souls. And to be fair, I really do like the base gameplay. But it was not meant to be.

Zelda would do really, really well to take some inspiration from the DS series, though.
 
quirky characters in a japanese game? NO WAI!

sure there are similarities to Zelda, probably because everyone played zelda and they take lots of inspiration from it (even western developers). having a castle in the end means nothing, though. might as well say Castlevania or any other fantasy oriented franchise.

and what naked character do you mean? the pyro lady? she's not naked, she just asked for new clothes because she was turned into stone for many years. didn't think it was quirky, it made her more human and less of an item dispenser (like many other NPCs are).

as for the chariot boss, he really sticks out like a sore thumb. compared to the rest of them, this one has some thought put into it. puzzle-like boss fights aren't new to the souls series
and I bet Miyazaki was involved in creating the chariot boss. we knew about him since the reveal at the VGAs
.

also: DS1's cast was just as diverse, other than the occasional undead/human there's a cat, wolf, spiderlady, transgender with tentacles as legs, a mushroom, a dragon, a buff skeleton, couple of giants, two sock puppets and gigantic boobs.
 
I've tried to get my wife into Dark Souls by describing it as Zelda, but with a dark art design and insane difficulty.

It turns out what she liked about Zelda was the bright art design and moderate difficulty.
 
I've tried to get my wife into Dark Souls by describing it as Zelda, but with a dark art design and insane difficulty.

It turns out what she liked about Zelda was the bright art design and moderate difficulty.
"Insane difficulty" wouldn't really sound like an appealing selling point to many people, bar masochists and try-harders.
In fact I don't think I would love Dark Souls so much if the difficulty was actually "insane".
I like it precisely because it's hard just to the point to keep things interesting from start to finish, without ever exaggerating to the point of frustration.
 
would someone characterize Ninja Gaiden 1 or Mario 3 as insanely difficult? I don't get the difficulty hyperbole of the Souls series. They're no harder than a random NES game, which children played.
 
I actually had this thought while playing Dark Souls 2, and it didn't occur to me while I was playing Demon's Souls or Dark Souls. I think I was in Iron Keep, and I just had the thought, "man, this is like a Zelda game that actually respects my abilities as a gamer."
 
I actually had this thought while playing Dark Souls 2, and it didn't occur to me while I was playing Demon's Souls or Dark Souls. I think I was in Iron Keep, and I just had the thought, "man, this is like a Zelda game that actually respects my abilities as a gamer."

*waggle* *waggle*
 
Another parallel is the types of NPCs you encounter. In DS1, the NPCs were basically human or undead (with the occasional snake or spider lady). In DS2, you have a diverse cast of races including humans, undead, ghosts, dwarves, imp things (red phantom covenant leader and belltower guys), cats, rats, decapitated heads, scorpion people, bird people, and more. The diversity reminded me of the large cast of different characters and races you'd find in a Zelda title.
The belltower guardians are actually dolls or puppets created by the princess. I think the red phantom covenant leader is just short.

I think Dark Souls 2 has about as much diversity in its NPCs as Dark Souls, maybe a bit more. Dark Souls had a giant blacksmith, a giant archer, a talking cat, a giant wolf, a talking mushroom, a dragon, a skeleton blacksmith, a giant crow, a sickly spider-woman, and two giant sinister donkey snakes. That's a lot of NPC diversity.

Puzzle bosses are also not new to Souls; the Dragon God from Demon's Souls and the Bed of Chaos from Dark Souls even fit the "rule of three" (Though the last hits on the Dragon God are done manually instead of with a giant ballista).
 
I've tried to get my wife into Dark Souls by describing it as Zelda, but with a dark art design and insane difficulty.

It turns out what she liked about Zelda was the bright art design and moderate difficulty.
It's not really much like modern Zelda though. The dungeons are more focused on combat approaches than puzzles. I was actually surprised when
Drangleic Castle
had a few puzzle-like elements.
 
This is old news in terms of aesthetics, since Demon's Souls. But unlike the "guide NPC" characters in the Zelda games, the ones in Dark Souls aren't nearly as intrusive. You can literally never talk to more than half of them, and still beat the game. Where in Zelda, they just pop up every 5 seconds no matter what you do and totally stop gameplay.

Souls is still a rather different beast, because outside of maybe some world structure similarities, there is little else nothing tying them together.
 
The first Dark Souls reminded me lots of Zelda. It was like, if Miyamoto remade the first Zelda today, but also happened to be an angsty teenager angry at the world and wanted to create something hardcore.
idklol
 
However, I feel that Dark Souls II takes a lot of inspiration from modern Zelda games, specifically OoT and beyond. For one, the way the characters direct your path in DSII is very similar to Zelda.

You mention OoT a lot in your post, but is OoT really considered a modern Zelda? It's 16 years old. It's closer in age to the original Zelda than to today.

Either way, I don't feel much of a Zelda influence in DS2. A few things being vaguely similar doesn't really mean it was inspired by it, in my opinion.
 
You mention OoT a lot in your post, but is OoT really considered a modern Zelda? It's 16 years old. It's closer in age to the original Zelda than to today.

Either way, I don't feel much of a Zelda influence in DS2. A few things being vaguely similar doesn't really mean it was inspired by it, in my opinion.

Totally agree, there.
 
A lot of the elements that made me fall in love with the Souls series are elements that have always attracted me to the 3D Zelda games. In fact, I've been comparing these games to the Zelda series for years.

I'd love to see Zelda take some cues from the Souls games. Not the brutality, but things like level design, the way puzzles integrate into the world in a believable way, and the combat. It all feels more real and believeable. Marry that to a Zelda-ish artstyle, a typical Zelda plot, a colorful cast of NPCs giving you tasks to do, a more inviting and friendly overworld, and some towns, and I'd be in heaven. Or hell, even make it a bit darker and more grim, like Majora's Mask.
 
The Souls games have always reminded me of Zelda in indirect, less tangible ways. Specifically, the feeling of exploring a vast world so full of mysteries you might never fully uncover all of them. That's powerful stuff for me.
 
I actually had this thought while playing Dark Souls 2, and it didn't occur to me while I was playing Demon's Souls or Dark Souls. I think I was in Iron Keep, and I just had the thought, "man, this is like a Zelda game that actually respects my abilities as a gamer."

Shots fired

If Nintendo hired FROM to make the next Zelda I'd cream my pants and buy a Wii U. Instead we get some Dynasty Warriors shit ; ;
 
I actually had this thought while playing Dark Souls 2, and it didn't occur to me while I was playing Demon's Souls or Dark Souls. I think I was in Iron Keep, and I just had the thought, "man, this is like a Zelda game that actually respects my abilities as a gamer."
Inversely, while playing Wind Waker on Hero Mode it felt a lot more like a Souls game to me. Though I'm not sure they have QUITE the right idea with that, given the games should be balanced to let you readily buy hearts and potions as necessary rather than making you memorize a few, possibly scattered healing spots. Still, there's that sense of tension and the gameplay's got some key similarities.
Shots fired

If Nintendo hired FROM to make the next Zelda I'd cream my pants and buy a Wii U. Instead we get some Dynasty Warriors shit ; ;
Honestly with how things went on the Japanese side for Metroid I think I'd rather From handled that. Might be a really interesting change of pace, and if Sakamoto is either hands off or at least MOSTLY hands off (at best he makes a story that gets filtered through Souls writers) it could end up really good. I guess in some ways it'd end up a little like Dark Souls with a splash of Armored Core, ideally.
 
Most of the stuff listed in the OP are general RPG/fantasy troops!

For one, the way the characters direct your path in DSII is very similar to Zelda.
This is in almost every JRPG, and the freedom you have in the order which you chose to tackle areas in DS2 is something we have yet to see in a 3D console Zelda game.
You have a point with the Chariot boss, even though I never felt the connection while fighting him because I was thinking of Geryon from Devil May Cry 3 the whole time. Then again, it's not the first puzzle boss in the series(wish there were more though).
 
Yeah, I never really got the Zelda/Souls parallel. I can definitely see potential influences, but that's because Zelda has had a lasting impact on the action-adventure/RPG genre in general. Other than that, Zelda and the Souls series are two different games; Zelda is more focused on puzzles whereas Dark Souls is more focused on combat and traditional RPG character progression. They both share the exploration aspect, but they also differ in how they approach it.

This is why I'm not in to the idea of a Zelda inspired by Souls; I don't go to Zelda for any of the reasons I go to the Souls games. Whenever the idea is brought up, I just think of how people used to wish for a Zelda inspired by DMC, and then Elder Scrolls, etc.
 
I still think the Souls series is more directly comparable to Castlevania than Zelda.

You have a point with the Chariot boss, even though I never felt the connection while fighting him because I was thinking of Geryon from Devil May Cry 3 the whole time.
Also this.
 
However, I feel that Dark Souls II takes a lot of inspiration from modern Zelda games, specifically OoT and beyond. For one, the way the characters direct your path in DSII is very similar to Zelda. While Skyward Sword basically said GO HERE GO HERE SPECIFICALLY, OoT gave you a broader overview of your goal. In DSII, character explain in detail specific points of interest and tips on how to get there. There are also a myriad of different characters explaining what paths you should take in DSII. It reminded me of the constant pop ups by Shiek, Kaepora, Impa etc.
What.... no. Just.... no.

The biggest thing that stuck out to me was the Chariot boss. Is this thing not straight out of Zelda? The majority of the battle is a puzzle, where you have to dodge attacks and fend of minions. When you finish the puzzle part, phase two begins where you focus on attacking the boss. So many Zelda battles follow this format, while so many Dark Souls battles do not. It really stands out among all the other fights where you just start wailing/dodging from second one.
Dragon God, Bed of Chaos... "puzzle" bosses are nothing new. Except this time it didn't suck.

You're really reaching with this whole post, IMO.
 
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