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Netflix is now also paying AT&T to improve streaming quality
- Thread starter GK86
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LyleLanley
Banned
This isn't shady at all.
Orbis Tabula
Member
And they pass those savings on to the customer!
...oh, wait.
...oh, wait.
The Blue Jihad
Member
We are so fucked. :-/
EDIT: HUELEN10, well-played...damn my eyes...
EDIT: HUELEN10, well-played...damn my eyes...
HUELEN10
Member
AND fucked.
RumblingRosco
Member
Wait, what's wrong with T-Mobile's music freedom thing?
The Last Wizard
Member
The FCC will prote...
HUELEN10
Member
Everything!
With non-unlimited data tiers, they don't count data usage for select music services, and that is a very bad thing being dishonestly pushed by t-mobile as a good thing!
All data on a capped plan NEEDS to be treated equally.
http://time.com/2901142/t-mobile-unlimited-music-net-neutrality/
I mean, why use Bandcamp when it will cost you your data, yet Pandora won't? It KILLS competition and upstarts.
FunkyMunkey
Banned
I wish Netflix and Google would do at least a partial partnership to deal with this shit (not completely merge or anything). I know they're campaigning for an open internet and all that to the FCC, but I really think they need to do more. This sets a pretty scary precedent, how a telecommunications company can hold certain connections hostage for more money. We are fucked unless something changes.
metalslimer
Member
So sad that the hope is just another huge corporation that happens to have opposite goals in how to make money. We're screwed.
RumblingRosco
Member
...because it discourages the use of music services that aren't included in the "free music" promo, possibly inhibiting growth of the music service industry? I could see that.
Well obviously the real answer is the government needs to step in but that's not gonna happen, so google's the next best option, lesser of two evils etc
HUELEN10
Member
Enough fucking talk, I am scared and PISSED!
This keeps happening, but I am ignorant. What can I, what can WE do to fix this? Who do we need to talk to? What do we need to do? We're at a point where we can't vote with our wallets and find someone else because everyone is out to fuck is.
To those far more learned, please tell us what we need to do to make shot happen and make this right, the time for action becomes more dire by the day!
This keeps happening, but I am ignorant. What can I, what can WE do to fix this? Who do we need to talk to? What do we need to do? We're at a point where we can't vote with our wallets and find someone else because everyone is out to fuck is.
To those far more learned, please tell us what we need to do to make shot happen and make this right, the time for action becomes more dire by the day!
ChoklitReign
Member
I just cancelled my Netflix sub after over 2 years. I'm on AT&T and the quality has never been this bad. For the whole week I can't get better than 2/4 bars an dit sucks balls. I get 2x the quality on Amazon Video so I know it's all AT&T's fault. So, too little too late. Adios, Netflix.
We are fighting the good fight, the FCC just had an open thread thing about Net Neutrality, also, there are some big guns who are fighting on the side of Net Neutrality.
SliceSabre
Banned
Making me rethink picking up Netflix again.
POWERSPHERE
Member
They've done this in Australia for years, and to be honest it hasn't mattered at all. We've never really had many unlimited plans so having unmetered iView (a television channel streaming site) and other sites is offered by certain ISPs. I think these deals are hinting at a more terrible end, but the power is still in the consumers hands. Just.
This has literally nothing to do with net neutrality. This is exclusively a problem with a lack of competition.
Please don't conflate net neutrality with a lack of competition. It confuses things and rallies the uninformed to misguided causes that won't solve problems.
Transit agreements like the ones Netflix is making have existed for decades. They're a normal part of the business, and have been done throughout all time and are not "anti net neutrality". Big companies renegotiate transit agreements with ISPs all the time, you just normally don't hear about them.
In a competitive market, ISPs would have incentive to improve service and transit agreements, because otherwise you could just change to a better ISP. With no competition, ISPs have no incentive to improve things, so Netflix has to strike deals like this.
Also note: It's highly likely that Netflix is benefiting from these transit deals, getting cheaper rates than they'd otherwise be paying.
Two great articles you should read:
http://blog.streamingmedia.com/2014...etflix-comcast-deal-getting-basics-wrong.html
http://blog.streamingmedia.com/2014/06/netflix-isp-newdata.html
AstroNut325
Member
Buy out a few politicians. Provide a couple of all-expenses paid vacations to Tom Wheeler.
Edit:
THIS!
Elfforkusu
Member
This post is completely wrong, btw!
Competition is one potential avenue to achieve network neutrality. We don't have it. We're not going to get it, ever.
The agreements Netflix is making (paying someone who isn't my ISP to carry my traffic???) are unprecedented for a user-facing (services) company. The government (FCC) enforcing net neutrality by penalizing AT&T, Verizon, etc for their ongoing misconduct? That... could work.
But the FCC is run by cable company shills, so it's going to take a lot of constituent pressure to make them do the right thing.
and this is why Netflix will pay.
Please don't let your passion delude your understanding of how the Internet works.
ISPs are not "throttling" content here. They are simply not improving transit agreements between various networks and increasing the number of interconnects required in order to serve the traffic required for Netflix.
You might think that nuance is nonsense justification, but that would be sorely mistaken. That nuance is extremely important. None of the ISPs in question here are outright "throttling" content. They're not going "oh this traffic is from Netlifx, let's make it run slower".
On the contrary, they're refusing to improve their networks to handle the technical requirements about what Netflix customers are demanding. That is not because of a lack of net neutrality, it's because of a lack of competition.
And yes, transit / peering agreements are absolutely nothing new to ISPs and major internet services like this. Netflix is only making them public to rally customers to their side.
With perfect net neutrality, this exact same issue would still exist.
Here, I'll let Tom Merritt explain better:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9TPmhnxmEXY&feature=share&t=23m07s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9TPmhnxmEXY&feature=share&t=23m07s
Hip Hop
Member
Once Google has the grip on this, they will just turn out the same.
metalslimer
Member
Well not really. In regards to Google and their advertising business net neutrality is beneficial.
Netherscourge
Banned
Netflix will eventually be passing the costs onto it's customers.
Just so you know...
Just so you know...
Elfforkusu
Member
No delusions on my end.
You bolded the right part at least. They're refusing to "improve their networks"* specifically to hurt Netflix traffic in order to charge more to Netflix. It's not like it's mysterious what's causing the interconnects to be saturated. It's a strategy to put pressure on Netflix to get them to pay a heretofore unprecedented internet fee -- "the right to send packets to my customers".
Say I run a burger shop and have one particular regular I want to get rid of. He's by far my fattest customer: 450 pounds. So I put in a rule that no one over 400 pounds is allowed to be served. Sure, technically the rule affects everyone over 400 pounds! But it's pretty damn obvious what I'm doing. In the same way, the big ISPs are singling out Netflix. If other small content providers on the same network interconnect are caught in the cross fire, so what? I extorted a billion (made up number) dollars out of Netflix.
The point is they don't need to "throttle" a damn thing. Their network topology does it for them. They know the problem. They know the consequences. They know how to solve it (and it's cheap!). Throttling by any other name is still throttling.
It's intentional. It's premeditated. It's limiting content from a specific company unless they make a special deal. It's only not a violation of net neutrality if you refuse to see the forest for the trees.
Netflix and google (and Level3... and cogent... and...) have made the interconnects issue public as a PR ploy in the sense that they've exposed something that's obvious as a flagrant money grab to anyone who understands how the internet works.
Footnote:
* "refusing to improve their networks" is disingenuous as shit. They would need to pay for an extra wire connection at a network hub. So difficult that it would take one guy about 5 minutes to do. Real infrastructure difficulty there.
IdreamofHIME
Member
My porn should stream at the same rate and quality as House of Cards!!!
Netflix streaming has always been bad on Uverse for me at peak times. There's a reason why they're consistently ranked near the bottom on the Netflix Speed Test every month (lower than FiOS, Comcast, and TWC). I switched to Charter and now I actually can stream Netflix in Full HD with some consistency.
BlackNMild2k1
Member
Now that AT&T is also getting that additional revenue from Netflix, maybe now they can afford to bump their data speeds for customers like Comcast & Verizon just did.
The problem with your reply is that you think I disagree with you because you didn't read my posts carefully enough.
Yes, this is purely a PR ploy. Yes, it would be extremely cheap for ISPs to fix this. Yes, by all intents and purposes, it's "throttling" by another name.
I acknowledge all of this in my previous posts
But the important part? If Net Neutrality was legally imposed, it still would not fix these issues. Because those things you point out as mere technicalities and pointing out that it's "throttling by another name" is my entire point. Those technicalities are exactly what would prevent these issues by getting fixed if Net Neutrality would be introduced in its most ideal version.
Net Neutrality does not solve the problem of a lack of competition. The only thing that will solve the problem of a lack of competition is by enabling a competitive market, so that Verizon, Comcast, AT&T, and others can't get away with stupid PR schemes like this.
Net Neutrality is absolutely wonderful, and should be fought for on all fronts. But not because it would fix problems like this with Netflix, but because it would ensure that the Internet doesn't turn into one of those dystopian visions where you're paying different prices for access to different web sites.
Why would they? Comcast and Verizon are only bumping speeds for customers in markets where there's actually competition. In Seattle, Comcast hasn't done shit with my connection since there's no viable competition. Same with most other cities without any competitive market.
Again, watch this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9TPmhnxmEXY&feature=share&t=23m07s
ISPs only ever have incentive to improve their service if:
1) They think they can get more money out of existing customers for it, or
2) There is a competitive service potentially taking customers away from them
Reducing costs is in no way incentive for any company to give you better service for the same price. It's a way for them to increase their profits, and that's it.
Elfforkusu
Member
Why wouldn't it fix these issues? If the agreements Netflix has been forced to sign are illegal there's no incentive to do what Verizon/AT&T/etc are doing. As it is, the throttling is incentivized.
Also, it's not clear to me that the technicalities would matter if net neutrality is honored. It would be "fix your shit, or explain why you don't have to fix your shit". These ISPs cannot make a compelling case why the fix is untenable, end of story. Because there isn't a compelling case. FCC title II classification would be more than enough to shut this down.
Real competition is probably impossible in the US marketplace. How many power companies do you have in your area? How many water companies? How many natural gas suppliers? How many TV providers? The issue is infrastructure. It's too expensive to lay cable and build/maintain towers. Competition isn't going to happen beyond the 1-3 per area we have now. There's literally too much ground to cover.
Only real hope is municipal broadband. aka the government.
AzureSkies
Member
Good thing that ISPs have been screwing you guys over for years too. Virgin Media still throttles peer to peer connections.
Elfforkusu
Member
...no.
BlackNMild2k1
Member
It wasn't an entirely serious comment. I was playing off the fact that there were 2 threads today on comcast & verizon regarding bumping speeds for customers. And since both of them had previously been in the news for making deals with Netflix... well, I'm sure you've already put it all together where I was going.
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