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Do your favorite games pass the Bechdel Test?

Z

zeldablue

Member
List some of your favorite games and tell me which ones pass and which ones fail. Why? Because why not. It's fun to try and remember dialogue and see if it happens or not.

To pass, there are three simple rules.
1. The game needs at least two women.
2. those two women interact with each other.
3. their interaction is about something completely unrelated to a dude.

Seems easy, but it's kind of hard. @__@

Zelda: Ocarina of Time - Pass (3 out of 3)
I don't think there's a single instance where Link isn't being addressed in the dialogue. My favorite game of all time. :S NVM. Kotake and Koume totally talk to each other.

Zelda: Majora's Mask - Pass (3 out of 3)
Two sisters, Romani and Cremia talk about taking care of the ranch, argue about going to the carnival and the little sister's maturity. Anju and her mom talk about Kafei...so that's a fail. Anju and her grandma talk about her dad...so that's a fail too.

Zelda: Twilight Princess - Pass (3 out of 3)
Midna and Zelda talk about Midna being sketchy/questionable. Zelda and Midna talks about Midna's suffering. Zelda and Midna talk about how light and dark need each other. Telma and Ilia talk about Prince Ralis, which is a fail. Midna and Zelda talk about curing Link's curse, which is also a fail.

Zelda: Link's Awakening - Fail (1 out of 3)
...I think Marin and Tracy are the only girls besides the hippo lady. xD

Other favorite games:

Earthbound - Fail (1 out of 3)
I don't think it passes, despite having so many hilarious characters and encounters.

Silent Hill 2 - Fail (1 out of 3)
Maria talks about Laura a ton, but the two never meet.

Catherine - Fail (2 out of 3)
...Ehh, well...I mean. Yeah.
The two -atherines meet, but it gets pretty catty over Vincent.

Final Fantasy X - Pass (3 out of 3)
I'm pretty sure Yuna and Rikku have a nice talk or two about the pilgrimage.

Hyrule Warriors - Pass (3 out of 3)
...This game has a lot of talking ladies. Most of the game is about them talking about the battle.

Skyward Sword - Pass (3 out of 3)
The newest Zelda passes pretty well. Impa and Zelda discuss the Triforce. Fi and Zelda talk about their cleared mission.

Wind Waker - Pass (3 out of 3)
I believe it passes, but only on Windfall where two girls talk about girly things and who middle age women gossip. Tetra tells Aryll to be a good girl for her brother, which is a fail.

Well...what I just learned is that newer Zelda games tend to pass this test easily. But a lot of my precious favorites fail. Now you share your favorites!

EDIT: Think of this as a game. The test is pretty superflurous and has nothing to do with how good/bad something is at all. It's just a quick way of seeing how your favorite games handle certain characters and make you think through your favorite games' scripts.
 
Senran Kagura: Shinovi Versus.PASS 3 out of 3
This game has the most lesbian subtext of any game I've ever played. All the girls wanna do is love other girls.
 
Majora's Mask - already posted

Silent Hill 3 - Claudia and Heather meeting, I want to say every scene where they talk but I am not 100% sure.

Bayonetta and Bayonetta 2 - Bayonetta and Jeanne talk quite a bit
 
Persona 4: 3/3
Tons of female characters that all talk to each other about things unrelated to guys.

Final Fantasy Tactics: 3/3
Agrias and Ovelia talk to each other quite a bit, mainly about politics and such. Not necessarily about another male character.

Shadow of the Colossus: 0/3
Failure in all regards lol. One female and she barely talks, and definitely not to another female (unless the horse is a female).
 
Resident Evil 4 - Has Ashley, Ada, and a couple female Ganados. I don't think they ever talk, unless you consider one female ganado yelling "KILL HIM" in the vicinity of another female ganado to be conversing. But even then they are talking about Leon. This one probably gets 1 out of 3.

Metal Gear Solid 1 - Has a few females, but almost all the dialogue in the game is directed at Snake. I'm not even sure two females meet in the game. 1 out of 3.

Metal Gear Solid 2 - Same thing. I doubt Fortune ever talks to another female. I don't think Rose and E.E. ever talk, but if they do, it's probably about Raiden. Probably 1 out of 3 again.

Flower - Complete and utter failure. Disgusting. My faith in the industry dwindles.

I wonder if any GTA game passes? Other games I'm interested in but only played through once/ don't remember so I can't be sure: Deus Ex series, Elder Scrolls, GTA, any Resident Evil game...
 
would gone home count? technically its not a dude the sister talks about lol

joking. favorite game would be mm2 and thats full of robots so i guess it wouldnt be an issue
 
i assume the tetris block T is a male because it looks like a penis and the L could be used to represent a rotated V. the square block can be a fat person of either gender.

so we'd need to be able to make a line with the L blocks and the square blocks only. hmm. we can technically make a line with only fat blocks and say it's a line of only fat women. so i guess tetris passes the test
 
Journey passes... if the scarf people can be girls and chirps are considered talking.
FluxWaveZ said:
Not sure about that. You'd need to give a specific example.
Click to expand...
There's no way that over the course of that entire game Lotus, June, and Clover never talked to one another about something other than men... but I've been wrong before.
 
BlueMaxima said:
No and who the fuck cares.
Click to expand...
What's the point of even coming into the thread if you don't care. Speaking of which.

Three examples from the AC series.

ACL:Aveline meets with one of her friends and they briefly reminisce about being in the bayo and a suspicious convoy. These two have many scenes together.

AC4:There's a scene where Mary Read tries to convince Anne Bonnie to
join the assassins.

ACU:There's a scene where two high ranking female templars talk to each other about manipulating the French populace into becoming violent revolutionaries.

:D
 
Green Biker Dude said:
i assume the tetris block T is a male because it looks like a penis and the L could be used to represent a rotated V. the square block can be a fat person of either gender.

so we'd need to be able to make a line with the L blocks and the square blocks only. hmm. we can technically make a line with only fat blocks and say it's a line of only fat women. so i guess tetris passes the test
Click to expand...

I don't think Tetris has any dialogue.

Though, I love Pokemon Puzzle League...and that passes. xD
 
Trigonometrize. said:
Journey passes... if the scarf people can be girls and chirps are considered talking.

There's no way that over the course of that entire game Lotus, June, and Clover never talked to one another about something other than men... but I've been wrong before.
Click to expand...

I'm going to play through the true ending tonight I think, so I'll be able to confirm one part of this <_<
 
Dawg said:
Passing this test is easier if the playable character is female, no? Considering most conversations include that character.
Click to expand...
Yeah...

But I don't think Metroid clears it. A lot of games don't have much talking at all. Or there might not be other female characters there. :P
 
Should player characters where it's not a set character count? Seems like any game with that lets you play as a woman and has an important NPC woman would pass if they are to be included.

It's actually a bit hard to name some simply because so many games root you as the main character and seeing conversations not involving the main character can be rare.
 
Green Biker Dude said:
i assume the tetris block T is a male because it looks like a penis and the L could be used to represent a rotated V. the square block can be a fat person of either gender.

so we'd need to be able to make a line with the L blocks and the square blocks only. hmm. we can technically make a line with only fat blocks and say it's a line of only fat women. so i guess tetris passes the test
Click to expand...

Mind blown. Also, a little laughter might have been heard in my apartment.
 
I support so much about feminism, except for the Bechdel test. I know this isn't the point of the thread, but it's so dumb. It doesn't tell you if the media you're using it on is good or not, just that it doesn't have two women in it who speak to each other about more than just men. It doesn't tell you if the female characters are good, that they are just their. Hell, it doesn't even tell you if it's sexist or not, just if the women exist. There is porn that past the Bechdel test. Pointless freaking test that servers no purpose. Sorry, needed to rant.

OT:

MegaMan Legends: Yes
The mayor and Roll speak with one another about more than just megaman.

Tomba: No
Everyone only speaks to Tomba, but rarely about him. Still, none of the females talk to each other unless it's for hints.

Super Mario Bros 3: No
 
-Deimos said:
I'm sure EVA and The Boss talk about something other than a man at least once in MGS3.
Click to expand...

It has to be on screen. In OoT, it's implied Ruto talked to Sheik and Impa talks to Zelda...but you don't see it. Mary in SH2 is also implied to talk a lot with Laura but you don't see it.

Corpekata said:
Should player characters where it's not a set character count? Seems like any game with that lets you play as a woman and has an important NPC woman would pass if they are to be included.

It's actually a bit hard to name some simply because so many games root you as the main character and seeing conversations not involving the main character can be rare.
Click to expand...

Yeah, of course that counts. :P And yeah, it's tricky, but even in Watch Dogs and Assassin's Creed there are women talking to each other.
 
At first I was like VTMB passes easy, but does it not count if it's in direct communication with the player character, who's actions/dialogue is directly controlled by the player? I'm actually trying to think of female characters with their own arc unrelated to the player, and conversing with each other.

Only females I can think of off-hand are Yuki, Jeanette and Therese, Ming Xiao, VV, and Damsel. None of whom ever really speak to each other, aside from Jeanette and Therese
having their....unique fight before you come in to end things
 
It's kind of difficult to apply a test designed for film to a game. Most games strictly follow the perspective of their protagonists, without much dialogue between other characters that doesn't apply to the player. Those scenes are common in film, making a pass much simpler.
 
Mushroomer25 said:
It's kind of difficult to apply a test designed for film to a game. Most games strictly follow the perspective of their protagonists, with dialogue between other characters that doesn't apply to the player. Those scenes are common in film, making a pass much simpler.
Click to expand...

I feel like it's easier for games simply because the script in a game can be gigantic and branch in multiple directions. Movies only have 1-3 hours while games have 5-80 hours.
 
Dawn of War: Dark Crusade passes I guess since at least half of the Eldar units are female? Ever 17 also passes and with flying colours.
 
The thing that really holds games back here is the omnipresent protagonist. So so so many games rarely have scenes without the protagonist in the room, and so few games have a female protagonist. I adore games with proper ensemble casts, that put you in control of multiple player characters throughout.

Ogre Battle 64 passes with an asterisk. Merida and Leia definitely talk about battle plans and their childhood some times. In 80+ hours of game I can only really recall one passing scene clearly though...
 
zeldablue said:
I feel like it's easier for games simply because the script in a game can be gigantic and branch in multiple directions. Movies only have 1-3 hours while games have 5-80 hours.
Click to expand...

Still, none of that matters if the perspective is limited to a single character. Plus, that's traditionally not 5-80 hours of dialogue - which plenty of films are primarily composed of.

I think there's merit to a Bechdel-style test for games, but it has to be designed for the format in which games are written.
 
Castlevania Aria of Sorrow: Mina and Yoko; I don't think they talk to each other in that game. (1/3)

Chrono Trigger: Marle, Lucca, Ayla, and Schala; they do have interactions and not related to Chrono, mostly with Ayla though (3/3)

Guilty Gear XX Accent Core Plus: A lot of the roster are women and if you play their route they do have interactions about what unfolds in the story (3/3)

Mass Effect: Liara, Ashley, and Femshep; "Reapers" (3/3)

Silent Hill: Alessa, Cybil, and Dahlia; they never interact (1/3)

Super Smash Bros Melee: lol (1/3)
 
I'm pretty sure Knights of The Old Republic 2 passes it, especially if you choose a female character (though that's kinda cheating a bit)
 
Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines

Passes 3 out of 3, but only if
you consider Jeanette and Therese two different women. >_> <_<

Also passes if your main character is female, but that's probably cheating since gender is something you control.

The Witcher 2: Assassins of Kings

Passes 3 out of 3. There's a scene where sorceress Triss Merigold confers with her companion Philipa Eilhart about the state of political affairs within the Northern Kingdoms (the region where the game takes place).

Devil May Cry 3

Fails 0 out of 3. Lady is the only recurring female character in the game.

The Longest Journey

Absolutely passes 3 out of 3. April Ryan, the protagonist, can converse with numerous female NPCs about topics not involving a particular male character.

Planescape Torment

Kind of...passes? Two female party members, the part-fiend Annah and the succubus Fall-From-Grace, may have short interactions with each other as you travel, but they are rarely more than three exchanges long, so not sure if that completely counts. The topics of said interactions mostly involve Annah openly expressing her contempt for Grace.
 
tkscz said:
I support so much about feminism, except for the Bechdel test. I know this isn't the point of the thread, but it's so dumb. It doesn't tell you if the media you're using it on is good or not, just that it doesn't have two women in it who speak to each other about more than just men. It doesn't tell you if the female characters are good, that they are just their. Hell, it doesn't even tell you if it's sexist or not, just if the women exist. There is porn that past the Bechdel test. Pointless freaking test that servers no purpose. Sorry, needed to rant.

OT:

MegaMan Legends: Yes
The mayor and Roll speak with one another about more than just megaman.

Tomba: No
Everyone only speaks to Tomba, but rarely about him. Still, none of the females talk to each other unless it's for hints.

Super Mario Bros 3: No
Click to expand...

I think the point is just to see if a story or environment in aware enough to have multiple perspectives in it.

South Park: Stick of Truth passes. :D
 
Ocarina of Time has already been covered in the OP - it unfortunately fails Earthpainting below pointed out Koume and Kotake, so it actually does pass.

Okami passes, since the protagonist, Amaterasu, is a goddess! There are also other female characters who speak to each other about a number of topics (like sisters Camille and Camellia).

Wind Waker passes - I remember two women, Pompie and Vera, on Windfall Island speaking to each other, although they were mostly obsessed with Lenzo and Minenco. However, they also discuss the island schoolteacher, Mrs Marie.
Later in the game,
a female sage passes on her powers to Medli, although the two don't appear to exchange any words.

Xenoblade Chronicles passes - it has an ensemble playable cast, several of whom are female and talk to each other in the cutscenes.

(It is rather difficult to apply this test to video games, since as Brakke and Mushroomer25 said the omnipresent protagonist tends to dominate everything even in story-driven games. However, there is little doubt that female representation is on the whole considerably lower than male representation across video games in general.)

tkscz said:
I support so much about feminism, except for the Bechdel test. I know this isn't the point of the thread, but it's so dumb. It doesn't tell you if the media you're using it on is good or not, just that it doesn't have two women in it who speak to each other about more than just men. It doesn't tell you if the female characters are good, that they are just their. Hell, it doesn't even tell you if it's sexist or not, just if the women exist. There is porn that past the Bechdel test. Pointless freaking test that servers no purpose. Sorry, needed to rant.
Click to expand...

The Bechdel test is useful for pointing out a general trend of a lack of female representation, and is not meant to assess whether a single piece of work is good or bad or even sexist. In other words, it's a measure that is useful in the aggregate rather than the individual.
 
tkscz said:
I support so much about feminism, except for the Bechdel test. I know this isn't the point of the thread, but it's so dumb. It doesn't tell you if the media you're using it on is good or not, just that it doesn't have two women in it who speak to each other about more than just men. It doesn't tell you if the female characters are good, that they are just their. Hell, it doesn't even tell you if it's sexist or not, just if the women exist. There is porn that past the Bechdel test. Pointless freaking test that servers no purpose. Sorry, needed
Click to expand...
"Good female character" is subjective, as can be "sexist". While you indeed shouldn't put too much weight on the Bechdel test, at least it's 100% objective.
 
Halo: Combat Evolved (3/3)
Cortana and Foe Hammer talk about the objectives and tactics throughout the entire campaign.

I was originally going to say Reach, but I don't know if Halsey/Kat or Kat/whoever is in the Pelicans at New Alexandria ever talk.
 
How many games feature characters talking with anyone who isn't the Player Character? Is a question that I'd ask first.

Then I'd ask if that's even a good idea, because if I wanted to check out people talking to each other, I could do that in literally any other medium

Then I'd ask what point a metric that isn't even supposed to be taken particularly seriously as a feminism measuring stick and applying it to a format that is generally not about watching people have conversations and where the answer can vary wildly based solely on whether not a player-created character was male or female. If I choose to be a character that reflects by own gender in a game does that make the game less positive towards women? Does it make me less so? If it does, is that offset by the fact that I'm what I consider to be a far less represented population sample as far as game protagonists go (i.e.: not white)?

less serious answer yes bayonetta and jeanne are bffs
 
Brakke said:
Ogre Battle 64 passes with an asterisk. Merida and Leia definitely talk about battle plans and their childhood some times. In 80+ hours of game I can only really recall one passing scene clearly though...
Click to expand...

Also Zeda talks to Yumil's concubine a couple times but usually about Yumil I think.

Oidisco said:
I'm pretty sure Knights of The Old Republic 2 passes it, especially if you choose a female character (though that's kinda cheating a bit)
Click to expand...

Easy money here. Handmaiden and her boss. That blind chick and Kreia (tho that's mostly about Nihlus?). Kreia and Handmaiden's boss (that lady has a name but I forget it).

Also the protagonist is canonically female.
 
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