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Errant Signal - Grand Theft Auto V (game analysis)

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Farks!

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I think his analysis is pretty much spot on. I overall enjoy the GTA games, but pretty much only for their campaigns because that's where all the interesting gameplay and moments are. GTA as a series would really benefit if Rockstar brought all the elements closer togheter and made it more cohesive thematically, from the gameplay mechanics and open world design to the writing and humour.
 
Only two minutes into the video so far (watching as I'm typing this) - but man, I really need to unwrap the plastic of my GTA5 PS4 copy :lol
 
Yoshichan said:
Only two minutes into the video so far (watching as I'm typing this) - but man, I really need to unwrap the plastic of my GTA5 PS4 copy :lol
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I'm about to start watching the video right now (love me some Errant Signal), but the PS4 version moved the game from my Top 20 All-Time into the Top 10.

Open that shit

Calling it a Remaster does the release a disservice.
 
As someone who has fallen out of love with the series after being disappointed with GTA5, I still can't watch videos of it without wanting to fire up my PS4.
 
Hoje0308 said:
As someone who has fallen out of love with the series after being disappointed with GTA5, I still can't watch videos of it without wanting to fire up my PS4.
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GTA 5 blows 4 out of the water in almost every single way.

The controls for shooting alone make GTA 4 something I don't want to ever play again. I would think 4 would have been the jumping off point for long-time fans of the franchise. I enjoyed 4, but it's easily the worst 3D GTA. I would rather go back and play 3. As aged as it is, it would still be more fun to me than 4.

I feel like GTA 5 controls just close enough to a standard third-person shooter that it will hold up a lot better over time than any of the other GTAs before it.
 
The point about the world being an illusion is well made.

Stuff crowds of npcs or prettier graphics. A more interactive and persistent world is what the genre needs now.

Or just no Trevor would be fine too.
 
Farks! said:
Video link

I think his analysis is pretty much spot on. I overall enjoy the GTA games, but pretty much only for their campaigns because that's where all the interesting gameplay and moments are. GTA as a series would really benefit if Rockstar brought all the elements closer togheter and made it more cohesive thematically, from the gameplay mechanics and open world design to the writing and humour.
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Couldn't disagree more. The most interesting gameplay and moments in GTA5 for me have occurred in the online mode.

This video was great.
 
Thanks for the heads up. Pretty much agree on most points. I wished though he would touch on the single player missions more which I've felt is so anti-game in it's designed (they feel way to handholdy for instance) nonetheless he's on point about what he talks about.
 
toddhunter said:
Or just no Trevor would be fine too.
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I strongly disagree. Trevor was the only one of the three characters I truly enjoyed playing as, because his psychotic nature both motivated you as a player to commit to the games violence and made sense in the context of that violence as well. He's unlikeable, but in a good way. Franklin was just... bland and forgettable, being either overshadowed or dragged around by the characters around him and Michael felt like he suffered from the same issue that Nico did in GTA IV; being a "serious" character with "serious" family problems and yet still running around killing people and commiting other crimes at the same time. I understand it's supposed to be satire, but just like Campster says in the video - it's satire that doesn't work.
 
Could be nostalgia talking but I don't remember the series being so dumb. Maybe it's the increased visual fidelity, I dunno. Never rolled my eyes so much at its attempts at humour.

Hopefully Rockstar makes another Red Dead game this decade.
 
Farks! said:
Video link

I think his analysis is pretty much spot on. I overall enjoy the GTA games, but pretty much only for their campaigns because that's where all the interesting gameplay and moments are. GTA as a series would really benefit if Rockstar brought all the elements closer togheter and made it more cohesive thematically, from the gameplay mechanics and open world design to the writing and humour.
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I think they did a better job than people give them credit for. Its readily apparent in the writing that the GTA universe treats crime different than the real world. Murder is seen as something that is bad, but not horrifying. When Michael admits to killing people most reactions are "Wow you shouldnt do that", not some sort of terrified "normal" reaction. I thought it was pretty clever of them to do that added in with the hyper violent/sexualized normal folks universe they inhabit, it all fits together quite well.
 
I really don't care for this guy. While I don't disagree with much of his analysis he just doesn't seem to enjoy gaming all that much. I don't think he'd be all that much fun to be around.

I'm typically aware of everything he points out, especially in his analysis of Half Life 2, but the difference is that at some point I'm able to disconnect and enjoy the experience for what it is. This guy just seems like a tiresome pretentious ninny.
 
toastyToast said:
Could be nostalgia talking but I don't remember the series being so dumb. Maybe it's the increased visual fidelity, I dunno. Never rolled my eyes so much at its attempts at humour.

Hopefully Rockstar makes another Red Dead game this decade.
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Grand Theft Auto has been the very same kind of dumb since 1997. It's consistent, if anything.

GTA 1 is the most "straight" of all of them (by the virtue of being the only one not written by Dan Houser, though he did write the London 1969 expansion. 1969. 69. sex joke. Get it? I bet he listened to a lot of Brian Adams), but you can still see it planting the seeds of tone to grow later on in the franchise.

GTA 2 mostly expressed its humor and tone through the radio, but when the series moved on to 3D, Houser's sense of humor began to manifest in other areas of the game, as well.

And I love it. Surely not for everyone. It's always kept me mildly amused, which is really all it's good for.

I think you're just getting older, more mature, and more discerning, while the series is really just staying the same.
 
Zabuza said:
Fuck off.

Best character in the game by a long shot.
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He was unlikeable. That was the point, but it also meant you were forced to play as an unlikeable person.

That might make him the "best character", but also by far the worst parts of the game.

Name me a good Trevor mission? Anything?
 
Mineshaft_Gap said:
I really don't care for this guy. While I don't disagree with much of his analysis he just doesn't seem to enjoy gaming all that much. I don't think he'd be all that much fun to be around.

I'm typically aware of everything he points out, especially in his analysis of Half Life 2, but the difference is that at some point I'm able to disconnect and enjoy the experience for what it is. This guy just seems like a tiresome pretentious ninny.
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Dude does a Let's Play series with some other guys here. He's definitely not boring, it's just that his analysis videos are intentionally very formal.
 
Mineshaft_Gap said:
I really don't care for this guy. While I don't disagree with much of his analysis he just doesn't seem to enjoy gaming all that much. I don't think he'd be all that much fun to be around.

I'm typically aware of everything he points out, especially in his analysis of Half Life 2, but the difference is that at some point I'm able to disconnect and enjoy the experience for what it is. This guy just seems like a tiresome pretentious ninny.
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Do you wonder why the guy in Digital Foundry vids doesn't chill out and stop focusing on fps and Ps all day
 
XtaLarge said:
Do you wonder why the guy in Digital Foundry vids doesn't chill out and stop focusing on fps and Ps all day
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I'll be honest, I probably don't give this whole thing as much thought as you.

Phrozenflame500 said:
Dude does a Let's Play series with some other guys here. He's definitely not boring, it's just that his analysis videos are intentionally very formal.
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It's not that his videos are boring, they're interesting. It's just that his videos have a way of making me feel like I ought to question my involvement in this particular hobby.
 
This is why I never played any GTA games. I love high fidelity and nothing gets better than this technically, but just by watching 5 minutes of gameplay I can tell that it's extremely shallow in what it tries to present.
 
toddhunter said:
He was unlikeable. That was the point, but it also meant you were forced to play as an unlikeable person.

That might make him the "best character", but also by far the worst parts of the game.

Name me a good Trevor mission? Anything?
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The missions involving planes. Burning down the hillbilly family house. Making trains smash into each other.
 
antitrop said:
Grand Theft Auto has been the very same kind of dumb since 1997. It's consistent, if anything.

GTA 1 is the most "straight" of all of them, but you can still see it planting the seeds of tone to grow later on in the franchise.

GTA 2 mostly expressed its humor and tone through the radio, but when the series moved on to 3D, Houser's sense of humor began to manifest in other areas of the game, as well.

And I love it. Surely not for everyone. It's always kept me mildly amused, which is really all it's good for.

I think you're just getting older, more mature, and more discerning, while the series is really just staying the same.
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It just feels like the game never misses an opportunity to make a crass joke. They're everywhere. Every wacky idea made it off the board. I still find dumb stuff funny but I need a bit of breathing room which this entry in particular has none of. Except that Trevor at the dock mission. Good God.
 
flaxknuckles said:
I would have killed Trevor if it meant I got another character to complete his side missions with ala Red Dead Redemption.
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He has the worst special ability of the 3 characters, in any case. Bullet-time shooting and driving are extremely useful, Rampage is whatever.

toastyToast said:
It just feels like the game never misses an opportunity to make a crass joke. They're everywhere. Every wacky idea made it off the board. I still find dumb stuff funny but I need a bit of breathing room which this entry in particular has none of. Except that Trevor at the dock mission. Good God.
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Okay, it's fair to say that the humor and satire has become progressively more pervasive as the series goes on, but it's always been the same sense of humor since the very beginning.
 
flaxknuckles said:
I would have killed Trevor if it meant I got another character to complete his side missions with ala Red Dead Redemption.
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I regretted killing him as I only had an autosave... welp, can't go back now to get his side missions unless I play a 30 hour campaign again.
 
antitrop said:
GTA 5 blows 4 out of the water in almost every single way.

The controls for shooting alone make GTA 4 something I don't want to ever play again. I would think 4 would have been the jumping off point for long-time fans of the franchise. I enjoyed 4, but it's easily the worst 3D GTA. I would rather go back and play 3. As aged as it is, it would still be more fun to me than 4.

I feel like GTA 5 controls just close enough to a standard third-person shooter that it will hold up a lot better over time than any of the other GTAs before it.
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While I agree that GTA5 is a better game than its predecessor in nearly every way (ragdoll physics being an obvious exception), I actually enjoyed the fourth game more at release. At the time it was a big leap in fidelity, physics and weapon handling. GTA5 didn't give me that same feeling, despite the obvious improvements. I think my problem is that the series overall just feels stagnant. R* keep making these big beautiful worlds and yet you're still doing the same thing in them you were the last time. I know a lot of new activities have been added, but I don't care about playing some half-assed tennis or golf game.
Outside of some seriously resource heavy AI improvements (make the world feel truly alive by creating citizens that remember me and my actions, whose reactions to me won't be almost completely binary) and a dramatic increase in the possible level of interaction and indoor environments, I really don't know what they could do to draw me back in. That said, the shit first person controls at launch and off putting humor that - as the video points out - is nearly impossible to avoid certainly aren't helping. Having three protagonists sounded like a great idea when first presented, but transitions were often forced and when I did switch characters, it was usually because the AI couldn't handle itself for a prolonged period of time.

Oh, and despite my problems with it, I still think the driving model in part four was much better than the "in this dimension, suspension physics don't exist" Hot Wheels style nonsense GTA5 provided.

antitrop said:
Okay, it's fair to say that the humor and satire has become progressively more pervasive as the series goes on, but its always been the same sense of humor since the very beginning.
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It might be that my version of the past has a rose tint, but I feel like previous games had more anchors that represented some sort of normality. In GTA5, anyone with a level head is portrayed as a downer or a pussy. It's grating.
 
Hoje0308 said:
Oh, and despite my problems with it, I still think the driving model in part four was much better than the "in this dimension, suspension physics don't exist" Hot Wheels style nonsense GTA5 provided.
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Each game's driving physics model works within the confines of its own world. 4's driving model all up in the mountains of San Andreas would have been terrible, and vice versa.
 
Hoje0308 said:
Oh, and despite my problems with it, I still think the driving model in part four was much better than the "in this dimension, suspension physics don't exist" Hot Wheels style nonsense GTA5 provided.
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to be fair GTA IV's suspension physics were incredibly exaggerated
 
antitrop said:
Each game's driving physics model works within the confines of its own world. 4's driving model all up in the mountains of San Andreas would have been terrible, and vice versa.
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There's a happy medium though and 5 just felt like an insecure reaction to the negative view many had of 4's driving physics. Plus, I can't stand how the arcade-y driving model is married to a much more realistic collision system.

XtaLarge said:
to be fair GTA IV's suspension physics were incredibly exaggerated
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Correct. As I said, I did have my problems with it, but at least it felt like something that originated from some exaggerated version of reality. But yeah, the amount of "hop" that occurred after compression was just ridiculous.
 
Good video.
i don't agree with 100% of the points, but i do with the general conclusion.

GTA feels tonally very confused at the moment, the writing has always been somewhat bad (with some amusing bits here and there) but with GTAV it felt particularly cynical and bitter, like their heart was not in it no more.
Or rather, like some of the elements that "make" GTA (tonally) had become vestigial and were there just because that was expected of them.
The bottom of the barrel puns worked in a world that looked like GTA3's, but don't fit no more in GTAV's.

Comparatively, Red Dead Redemption felt much more tonally cohesive and self assured of what it wanted to be (for the most part, that also had some dubious moments).

Contrary to him though, i think Saint's Row also shares a similar identity crisis, even though not exacly taking the same form.
And what he calls "wearing its flaws on its sleeve", i call having started as a bad GTA clone, and not having been sure where to go ever since.
i think this is particularly true for SR4.
 
Hoje0308 said:
It might be that my version of the past has a rose tint, but I feel like previous games had more anchors that represented some sort of normality. In GTA5, anyone with a level head is portrayed as a downer or a pussy. It's grating.
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Fair, I can agree with that somewhat.

I think it's also a symptom of each game having progressively loftier writing ambitions in scope. You're just gonna get more of it.

I feel like cutting back on a little of that stuff could be a positive change, because going even further with it would be unbearable. I feel like V was about as far as they can take it. Some feel like it already goes too far, which is fine, too.
 
He brings up good points, but I think he expects too much from a game trying to cater to as many people as possible (40+ million, to be specific).

Poop jokes and big titties are kind of universal. And to be honest, I don't mind it. I even kind of like it. I don't expect a brooding drama with deep and meaningful social commentary from GTA.
 
Hmm that explains why even though I was excited by GTAV and again for the remaster the characters and the humor just rub me the wrong way and I didn't end up buying it both times. For as breathtaking as the world building is it is ruined by everything else surrounding it. There has got be a happy medium between GTA4 and GTA5 they can take. Hope next time they have characters that don't all feel like caricatures because it really feels at odd with the beauty of the game.
 
PerezDeCorcho said:
He brings up good points, but I think he expects too much from a game trying to cater to as many people as possible (40+ million, to be specific).

Poop jokes and big titties are kind of universal. And to be honest, I don't mind it. I even kind of like it. I don't expect a brooding drama with deep and meaningful social commentary from GTA.
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Yeah, sometimes he comes off as wanting the game/series to just change its tone completely, which would really be making it not GTA, anymore. As I said before, it's been consistent, if anything. It's what fans have come to expect for like 17 years.

That said, I'm also very much for curbing the biting cynicism and ham-fisted satire for GTA VI, at least a little bit.

It's not unfair to wish there was a game with GTA's breadth of open-world design, free of the Houser writing, but I don't think it's fair to ask GTA to change what it's always been after so long.

Identity crises aren't cool. Look at Saint's Row, as an example previously cited.
 
antitrop said:
Fair, I can agree with that somewhat.

I think it also a symptom of each game progressively having loftier writing ambitions. You're just gonna get more of it.

I feel like cutting back on a little of that stuff could be a positive change, because going even further with it would be unbearable. I feel like V was about as far as they can take it. Some feel like it goes too far, which is fine, too.
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And it's not like they don't have the talent. The disparity between the writing in recent GTAs and RDR had me thinking they involved entirely different teams. But, another GAF member pointed out to me that there is actually some overlap. So there is every chance that they can pull it off. I agree with the maker of the video and think more coherent satire would help tremendously. The jokes themselves aren't necessarily my problem, it's that they feel so lazy. However, I do wonder how far in the other direction R* can go without alienating the fans they gained last gen.

PerezDeCorcho said:
He brings up good points, but I think he expects too much from a game trying to cater to as many people as possible (40+ million, to be specific).

Poop jokes and big titties are kind of universal. And to be honest, I don't mind it. I even kind of like it. I don't expect a brooding drama with deep and meaningful social commentary from GTA.
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I think a lot of us would be happy with a return to the humor seen in the GTA3 trilogy. It was still crass, but you at least knew what position R* was taking on various elements of our culture. With 5 everything is so scattershot, that it's hard to think the game is doing anything but crawling up its own ass. For the record, I love the humor seen in past games, but I do think the jokes hit harder and have a longer life if they don't sound like something any kid that just listened to an Andrew Dice Clay album could come up with.
 
Hoje0308 said:
And it's not like they don't have the talent. The disparity between the writing in recent GTAs and RDR had me thinking they involved entirely different teams. But, another GAF member pointed out to me that there is actually some overlap. So there is every chance that they can pull it off. I agree with the maker of the video and think more coherent satire would help tremendously. The jokes themselves aren't necessarily my problem, it's that they feel so lazy. However, I do wonder how far in the other direction R* can go without alienating the fans they gained last gen.
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40 million copies says they ain't changin' shit

It would take Dan Houser retiring.

He has lead and co-writing credits on:

Grand Theft Auto: London, 1969 (1999)
Grand Theft Auto 2 (1999)
Grand Theft Auto III (2001)
Smuggler's Run 2: Hostile Territory (2001)
Grand Theft Auto: Vice City (2002)
Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas (2004)
Grand Theft Auto: Liberty City Stories (2005)
Grand Theft Auto: Vice City Stories (2006)
Bully (2007)
Bully: Scholarship Edition (2008)
Grand Theft Auto IV (2008)
Midnight Club: Los Angeles (2008) (Dialogue)
Grand Theft Auto IV: The Lost and Damned (2009)
Grand Theft Auto: Chinatown Wars (2009)
Grand Theft Auto: The Ballad of Gay Tony (2009)
Red Dead Redemption (2010)
Red Dead Redemption: Undead Nightmare (2010)
Max Payne 3 (2012)
Grand Theft Auto V (2013)

So, like, almost fucking everything
 
PerezDeCorcho said:
He brings up good points, but I think he expects too much from a game trying to cater to as many people as possible (40+ million, to be specific).

Poop jokes and big titties are kind of universal. And to be honest, I don't mind it. I even kind of like it. I don't expect a brooding drama with deep and meaningful social commentary from GTA.
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Yeah that's a good point, GTA has to (read: wants to) cater to as many people as possible, that's probably why it's so "afraid" of changing its identity completely.
The problem is that by shifting only halfway through, tonal clashes pop up.

i guess it works well enough for them (since they sell so much).
For me, GTA is a constant cycle of incredible hype (like literally no other game) and mild to colossal disappointment.
As much as i loved GTAV, it didn't escape this cycle.

incidentally a game that tried to vert off the beaten path more than this one (GTA4) was heavily criticized, but that also retained a lot of these tonal problems.
 
antitrop said:
40 million copies says they ain't changin' shit

It would take Dan Houser retiring.
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And that right there is why I usually keep my GTA criticisms to myself. I do think it's possible to continue going over the top while regaining the ability to lampoon our culture in an intelligent way that will keep a good portion of us happy, so I still have some hope.

Whatever though, just give me another Red Dead and I'll never say another bad word about GTA again.
 
antitrop said:
40 million copies says they ain't changin' shit
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The fact it's the biggest selling console franchise means they can change shit. The games are popular enough to sell on name alone, they can and should use the popularity to take these risks and propel the character development and humor forward instead of going for lower than the lowest common denominator. Its a travesty that they create this beautiful and deep world only for the butt of all joke.
 
Agreed that the tone of GTA4 and 5 is really jarring. On the one hand they're trying to be these gritty crime dramas, but they still keep in all the dumb adolescent humor and terrible attempts of satire from the PS2 games. It feels like GTA has outgrown fart jokes, so the series should just drop that dumb crap. We already have Saints Row for that.
 
Endo Punk said:
The fact it's the biggest selling console franchise means they can change shit. The games are popular enough to sell on name alone, they can and should use the popularity to take these risks and propel the character development and humor forward instead of going for lower than the lowest common denominator. Its a travesty that they create this beautiful and deep world only for the butt of all joke.
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We all want nice things.
 
Phediuk said:
Agreed that the tone of GTA4 and 5 is really jarring. On the one hand they're trying to be these gritty crime dramas, but they still keep in all the dumb adolescent humor and terrible attempts of satire from the PS2 games. It feels like GTA has outgrown fart jokes, so the series should just drop that dumb crap. We already have Saints Row for that.
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I feel like Saints Row moved away from the adolescent crap much more than GTA has. That a giant purple dildo bat is there isn't the joke. That you can use it to save the last of humanity is. No more Freckle Bitch's.
 
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