Eh? Agree to disagree fellow.
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#DarkSoulsDowngrade and #YOULIED \\ a.k.a You got some splainin' to do, Namco
- Thread starter Havel
- Start date
Eh? Agree to disagree fellow.
Are people supposed to assume that things have been downgraded at every new video release? There was nothing in those videos to suggest anything had changed at all because they showed new parts of the game unrelated to what had been shown with the lighitng and torch mechanic before hand. We had nothing to compare it to.
Yet the PR of the lighting and torch remained the same.
Yeah, I can't wait for the mod where he restores the lighting engine to resemble the previous builds...
Hmm, yes it does seem quiet impossible, however when I look at the type of things the mod community has done with Skyrim (I Know Skyrim and Dark souls are two different games, it might even be easier on Skyrim because of the creation kit) it seems probably with a few layers of Post Processing Injector and bloom would make the shadows not look as bad as the shadows in the console versions (Plus we don't know how the game look with shadows on Ultra). Of course, until the PC version comes out we can do nothing but speculate, so I don't really want to jump to conclusions.
Krusenstern
Banned
We accidentally lighting.
U mad?
U mad?
TheCongressman1
Member
I'm fairly sure the creation kit wasn't out when ENB series supported Skyrim. ENB modifies shader functions, which both use d3d9.dll for shaders. I mean, you can run it with DS already, but there's only color contrast and correction options right now.
That would be hilarious but we would have heard something by now if it were true.
Some of it is still in there. Torches still cast the big shadows when you're carrying them around.
PetriP-TNT
Member
Some alternative tags for #youlied
#explainvideojameslikeIwas5
#namcourabully
#idununderstand
Vote with your wallets, except maybe if 1000 gamers write 1000 twitter messages for 1000 years maybe Dark Souls 2 gets a new video game engine lightning system
#explainvideojameslikeIwas5
#namcourabully
#idununderstand
Vote with your wallets, except maybe if 1000 gamers write 1000 twitter messages for 1000 years maybe Dark Souls 2 gets a new video game engine lightning system
Oh, they showed the real version in a private event and some footage was posted on some youtuber channel, they totally didn't use the old footage in the launch trailer or anything in the last 2 years, how innocent they are.
-MD-
Member
Missing the point.
gioGAF
Member
I thought losing some of the "lighting" upgrades (specifically the need to use a torch to traverse the environment) was done on purpose because a good amount of people did not want a bunch of levels like the Tomb of Giants. I find the whole "light your path with a lantern" mechanic annoying in Dark Souls, just like the flashlight in Doom, etc.
No excuse for the removal in not--dark situations, like the castle in the gif.
PetriP-TNT
Member
wait was the point that Dark Souls looks nothing like that real action reveal trailer #downgrade #falseadvertising
On topic, castle.gif was my favorite segment of DkS2 and now they turned the castle around and now its my least favorite
Lepcis Magna
Neo Member
Oh, this is interesting.
EatinOlives
Member
You know, after the fact that the infamous XB1 reversal because of the twitter campaign, and after the fact that Dark Souls 1 was ported to PC entirely because of an internet petition of all things, you would think that people would stop feeling the need to post useless smug posts like yours.
It's only you who'll eat crow if anything ends up coming out of it. I know the snark comes from the comfort that they likely won't do anything about it, but you should know better by now after some recent community-driven events.
No. The point was that the trailers and demos, which ran on real PS3 hardware in many trade shows, were flagrantly unrepresentative of the final game and were perpetuated by their marketing department up until release. This not only includes one of the largest graphical downgrades in recent memory (it dwarfs the Watch Dogs downgrade), but it also eviscerates the lighting system that From themselves hyped to hell and back through their previews. This includes severe flaws in the game's level design (one of the most important aspects of the Souls series), the obvious issues with graphical fidelity that go without saying, and a drastic performance hit despite the downgrades (which affects gameplay). There are also any graphical oddities that are almost guaranteed to be linked to the fact that much of the previously pitch-black areas were now visible, such as enemies literally popping into view (likely an optimization that was assuming you wouldn't have seen that pop in a pitch-black area), and animations running in a lower framerate if the enemy is at a moderate distance away (same likely optimization).
All of these issues directly affect gameplay, the one thing the Souls series is most coveted for. And none of these were even vaguely communicated prior to launch, and there has been zero official explanation to these incredibly obvious flaws and direct contradictions to their hype to this day.
So yes, you missed the point.
thorsilver
Member
All I can think of with this is Doom 3 back in 2004. They worked like hell to make a revolutionary lighting engine and forced players to switch between gun and flashlight to add to the atmosphere... and that whole lighting element was *easily* the single biggest complaint about that game.
I can easily imagine that playtesting revealed that the torch mechanic was too cumbersome in a game that already requires constant alertness and precise timing, and in which any dipshit enemy can still be very lethal. I mean, I loved Doom 3 actually, but dealing with that torch mechanic in Dark Souls II sounds less than appealing to me.
I can easily imagine that playtesting revealed that the torch mechanic was too cumbersome in a game that already requires constant alertness and precise timing, and in which any dipshit enemy can still be very lethal. I mean, I loved Doom 3 actually, but dealing with that torch mechanic in Dark Souls II sounds less than appealing to me.
AzureSkies
Member
I dealt with the torch mechanic in the beta, it wasn't too bad at all.
Orthogonal
Member
The main complaint about the lighting/darkness in Doom 3 was that the flashlight couldn't be used at the same time as a gun, it was either light and no weapon, or weapon and no light which was stupid. People suggested they just add a light to the guns or your helmet and it would be fine but id never would do it. Modders fixed it and all was right in the world.
The thing about the torch mechanic, in most situations it appears that it was only a temporary setback until you lit the sconces which would permanently light up that area. As you pushed through you would eventually light them all and subsequent trips through the area would no longer require holding the torch. It would have added a little more depth to the gameplay.
A gameplay change like that would have been announced by the devs rather than going about it in such a smoke and mirrors fashion.
pyros
Member
If Namco releases the better lighting version for the PC, PS3/Xbox360 owners are not going to be happy, and you are going to get the same reaction, if a gimped version is released for the PC, it's a no win situation for them, I think a bit of honesty is going to help them in the long run
Paracelsus
Member
#Ifthisisadoubledippingbaitweriot
Yoda
Member
Perhaps we should just all be corporate apologists? Complaining about an advertised feature which is absent is 100% legit. ,
Orthogonal
Member
Some may, but I think most understand the PC is a more powerful platform and has had technically superior releases for years.
#OH #MY #GOD #are #WE #making #this #hastag #campaign #thing #for #everything #A #thing #now
Seriously they probably had technical issues or maybe it was the PC version before. I really don't understand what you expect?
namco to go "OH you smart guys. YOU FIGURED IT OUT! we've been hiding these better graphics all along, and we'd have gotten away with it if it wasn't for your meddling tweets" and then they add it back into the game?
Seriously they probably had technical issues or maybe it was the PC version before. I really don't understand what you expect?
namco to go "OH you smart guys. YOU FIGURED IT OUT! we've been hiding these better graphics all along, and we'd have gotten away with it if it wasn't for your meddling tweets" and then they add it back into the game?
These are valid points I didn't consider.
This is true too, though. It's not just about the torches.
RedAssedApe
Banned
what's funny is that you guys complaining all bought the game still haha
TheCongressman1
Member
Whether or not torches were a good idea has nothing to do with this discussion. The lighting effects seen in the Mansion of the Dragons is an example of that. If the problem was the torches, they could have just added more lights to those areas rather than ruin the entire lighting system. But I'm sure they will say the issue was power.
Not much choice when they never even hinted that there would be downgrades. People preordered it and got it, then we discovered the massive cuts from the game. Which is the entire point of this thread...
I didn't, but only because I'm waiting for the PC version.
Kinda tough when if you wanted it at launch there was no way to even know how fucked up the game was unless you played it yourself. Since, you know, it was advertised to be completely different. Which is kind of the point here.
A lot of people had the game pre-ordered so it's no surprise that people in this thread have it.
Also, PCMasterRace
A Link to the Past
Banned
Fair point - everyone is being kind of an asshole for wanting Namco to have some scruples.
Kind of insulting to the veterans(salute) of the #PS4noDRM campaign that all of these copycat ""movements"" are popping up. noDRM was far more noble than #YOULIED.
Yeah, let's not try to canonize #PS4noDRM over this. #PS4noDRM was a campaign to prevent something from happening, to show that they don't want it in their console. #YOULIED is a campaign of people pointing out that a statement made by Namco Bandai about a product they made was patently untrue for the final release of the game.
-MD-
Member
Solid post!
Good grief. I guess I understand the feeling of having been misled, but every game changes throughout development. The reveal was eye-catching in a high-contrast kind of way, but it would likely have been unplayable. As it is, I think it's clear shadows were introduced or drastically improved and lighting in general was tuned for performance and playability. If you're worried about the exact form of the shipping product, you can always wait for reviews of the retail product that include footage.
Dark Souls was brilliant enough that I was willing to take a risk and see what they would do in a sequel. So far I'm pleased, but then I wasn't expecting miracles. These systems are well enough understood that I don't expect developers to wring more performance out of them. All they can do is make trade offs that suit their game, showcase an appropriate artistic style, and deliver solid gameplay. IMHO Dark Souls II delivers on all three counts.
Dark Souls was brilliant enough that I was willing to take a risk and see what they would do in a sequel. So far I'm pleased, but then I wasn't expecting miracles. These systems are well enough understood that I don't expect developers to wring more performance out of them. All they can do is make trade offs that suit their game, showcase an appropriate artistic style, and deliver solid gameplay. IMHO Dark Souls II delivers on all three counts.
John Harker
Definitely doesn't make things up as he goes along.
This game is beautiful. And this thread is kind of embarrassing I find.
TheCongressman1
Member
So you read the thread and understand what we are saying? How is it embarrassing that we don't like being lead to believe the final product would have certain new features?
John Harker
Definitely doesn't make things up as he goes along.
Why would you think I haven't?
TheCongressman1
Member
How is it embarrassing that we don't like being lead to believe the final product would have certain new features?
We aren't saying the game is awful, but it is missing features that have been shown since the unveiling all the way up until release.
Poetic.Injustice
Member
Kind of insulting to the veterans(salute) of the #PS4noDRM campaign that all of these copycat ""movements"" are popping up. noDRM was far more noble than #YOULIED
What rubbish. The nodrm campaign proved that gamers can make a difference. No one(except the mods) has a right to decide what is and isn't campaign worthy.
Don't post in the thread if all you're going to do is thread whine.
If they only had to sell you the game, they probably wouldn't have lied, but they showed "PS3" footage, and now they must reap what they sowed.
No one is contending DS2 isn't good, people are upset FROM lied about what the game would be, whether or not they put up disclaimers. Do all the people who think what FROM did is fine, not care if they ever see real gameplay? This is the reason they have disclaimers in the first place, because nothing they sell lives up to the product. And people in here seem to think that's fine, as if FROM is some one time round the block indie dev who just wanted to make games.
And how are people supposed to know about these issues, if the press isn't talking and customers are getting shamed for speaking up? This game is being SOLD with these issues, getting 9s, and we wouldn't know these issues existed if someone decided FROM did just fine releasing the game, fuck that, that's how BF4s get made.
HyperBitHero
Member
I don't know if this has been posted in this thread or not, but I did a video on this subject for the other thread.
Dark Souls 2 - April 2013 Vs Retail Lighting and Graphics Comparison
Dark Souls 2 - April 2013 Vs Retail Lighting and Graphics Comparison
RedAssedApe
Banned
Ok I understand the sentiment. I probably shouldn't have used the word all. But I stand by my comment for those who knew about this and still picked up the game.
You could argue that all of this #downgrade #youlied stuff is whining too. If you want everyone to agree with your movement you've come to the wrong place.
Because it probably was? I mean, we are playing on consoles that will be 9 years old not long from now...
Rambone
Member
Whew, finished getting caught up in this thread. I've not played the game yet but reviewing the screenshots, especially the mansion and dragon bridge screens are truly discouraging and disappointing. The differences between the older build(s) and the retail release in regards to lighting and other details on the map such as floor tiles being completely downgraded) is night and day. I cant help but wonder what other things got cut out of this game for unknown reasons.
If the PC version suffers the same "last minute" changes that the console versions currently do, perhaps in the future if enough fans come together and make enough noise about this like what happened with getting the PC version made hopefully we will see a "Directors Cut" of the game. I doubt that this will be a thing but one can always dream. I still look forward to playing this game and will be renting the PS3 version to play now and will buy the PC version when released regardless of what state it is in.
Dark Souls is Love, Dark Souls is Life.
If the PC version suffers the same "last minute" changes that the console versions currently do, perhaps in the future if enough fans come together and make enough noise about this like what happened with getting the PC version made hopefully we will see a "Directors Cut" of the game. I doubt that this will be a thing but one can always dream. I still look forward to playing this game and will be renting the PS3 version to play now and will buy the PC version when released regardless of what state it is in.
Dark Souls is Love, Dark Souls is Life.
They didn't downgrade Tomb Raider with the foreknowledge that they would get people to double dip. Not sure why you're comparing that situation to this one.
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