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[peanutbutterlatte]

If anything, I'm annoyed by the placing of the scene. Can't help but think the juxtaposition of that and the Frey hanging would have been great viewing. Maybe we'll first see SH through Brienne's eyes as she's a more familiar character.

Anyway, cool scene. Lysa falling through the moondoor looked fake as hell, though.

 

[Real Hero]

'your sister' was fine. Maybe a pointless change but it didn't change the scene in any major way. However, they really messed up but not letting the snow castle scene develop, I think that was biggest misstep and it felt pretty meaningless while in the books it felt like a major moment for Sansa.

 

[elrechazado]

Okay, fair enough. There's whining for the sake of whining, which is wrong, I agree. This is a thread for people who've read the books after all. But are we likewise not allowed to defend the change, and acknowledge what might work, and what might not work within the realms of an adaptation?

People are of course allowed to criticise, but I don't think pages and pages of changing book dialogue to appear as over-explained as "Your sister" supposedly is amounts to water-tight, untouchable criticism. I'm usually the first to criticise changes from books; I am a big critic of The Hobbit and Harry Potter films, for example. It's interesting really being on the other side, as I watched Game of Thrones first, then read the books at a later date. There are "Yara's canine adventures/Someone's in the tomb with Cersei" level of changes, then there are reworkings of dialogue that essentially amount to the same thing.

Personally I'd love to hear a defense of the change rather than whining about the people who don't like it.

 

[MoogleWizard]

Good episode.

- Moondoor scene felt flat and anticlimactic to me. The whole thing was much more intense in the books with Robin getting a seizure and Lysa and Sansa really fighting with each other. Lysa's and Littlefinger's reveal about what they've done was what made the most impact in that scene in the books, I don't know why they didn't just do the scene the way it was written, it was perfect. I didn't care much about 'your sister' either. I thought the point of Lysa saying 'my sister Cat', 'your mother Cat' like ten times in the scene with Sansa was to hammer it into viewers that Cat=Catelyn. Apparently not, they must think all viewers are idiots.

- Oberyn and Tyrion scene was amazing. Great acting on both parts. I will miss Pedro Pascal.

- Hot Pie! The true king of Westeros has returned. Hot Pie on the Iron Throne with Gendry as his hand and Arya as Lord Commander of the Kingsguard would be my perfect ending.

- The Mountain was disappointing. He looks like a huge, cuddly teddy bear. I was waiting for Cersei to hug and cuddle him. He also looks way too young, like half of Sandor's age, which made the scene with Sandor talking about him weird.

- 'Nothing is just nothing', 'They can live in my new world or die in their old one' were on par with 'I will answer injustice with justice' and 'I will not become a page in someone's else history books'. I bet the writers feel smart for writing these cringeworthy 'badass' one-liners.

Also, I fully expected gratuitous unneccesary Danaerys nudity. Maybe that rumour about her refusing to do sex scenes was true.

Well, they did show a gratuitous unnecessary Melisandre boobs scene right after Dany/Daario. They might as well have shown a notice 'We are truly sorry that our super straight viewers had to endure 3 seconds of Darrio's manbutt. Unfortunately, Emilia Clarke is no longer willing to do nude scenes, so here's 5 gratuitous minutes of naked Melisandre to restore the balance.' That scene was so awkward, Selyse looked really uncomfortable and the slow motion panning shot from Melisandre's ass to her tits made me chuckle. Don't me wrong the actress has a nice rack but the scene was ridiculous. It's obvious that she's the only main cast member who wants to get naked so they go out of their way to write scenes for it.

 

[peanutbutterlatte]

Personally I'd love to hear a defense of the change rather than whining about the people who don't like it.

Okay, it's a minor change that essentially means the same thing, and has precisely the same impact. It's a little weird if you want to look into it a lot, but in this case "your sister" is a synonym for "Cat".

How many times has the show used the novel as a script for its lines really?

 

[Discotheque]

melisandre so fine. it helps that she's on team stannis. aka team 'GETS SHIT DONE' while everyone else has been stagnating.

i wonder how many of the non book fans marked out when oberynn announced himself as tyrion's champion. i'll be honest he sold me on outlasting clegane with that monologue as well, despite knowing where he ends up (a pity he's leaving, he's been stealing scenes)

i was hoping littlefinger sparta-kicked lysa out the moon door

 

[jett]

Good episode.

- Moondoor scene felt flat and anticlimactic to me. The whole thing was much more intense in the books with Robin getting a seizure and Lysa and Sansa really fighting with each other. Lysa's and Littlefinger's reveal about what they've done was what made the most impact in that scene in the books, I don't know why they didn't just do the scene the way it was written, it was perfect. I didn't care much about 'your sister' either. I thought the point of Lysa saying 'my sister Cat', 'your mother Cat' like ten times in the scene with Sansa was to hammer it into viewers that Cat=Catelyn. Apparently not, they must think all viewers are idiots.

- Oberyn and Tyrion scene was amazing. Great acting on both parts. I will miss Pedro Pascal.

- Hot Pie! The true king of Westeros has returned. Hot Pie on the Iron Throne with Gendry as his hand and Arya as Lord Commander of the Kingsguard would be my perfect ending.

- The Mountain was disappointing. He looks like a huge, cuddly teddy bear. I was waiting for Cersei to hug and cuddle him. He also looks way too young, like half of Sandor's age, which made the scene with Sandor talking about him weird.

- 'Nothing is just nothing', 'They can live in my new world or die in their old one' were on par with 'I will answer injustice with justice' and 'I will not become a page in someone's else history books'. I bet the writers feel smart for writing these cringeworthy 'badass' one-liners.




Well, they did show a gratuitous unnecessary Melisandre boobs scene right after Dany/Daario. They might as well have shown a notice 'We are truly sorry that our super straight viewers had to endure 3 seconds of Darrio's manbutt. Unfortunately, Emilia Clarke is no longer willing to do nude scenes, so here's 5 gratuitous minutes of naked Melisandre to restore the balance.' That scene was so awkward, Selyse looked really uncomfortable and the slow motion panning shot from Melisandre's ass to her tits made me chuckle. Don't me wrong the actress has a nice rack but the scene was ridiculous. It's obvious that she's the only main cast member who wants to get naked so they go out of their way to write scenes for it.

Power is power.

The more I think about it the more I'm moderately concerned the show will suffer greatly when they run out of material to crib from. A lot of the original material has been dreadful.

 

[Santiako]

Oberyn and Tyrion scene was amazing. Pedro Pascal is killing it, can't wait to see his skull crushed in.

 

[peanutbutterlatte]

Lol further to above comments, Rory McCann is twenty years senior to the Mountain's actor.

 

[Kain]

What's up with Emilia Clarke not wanting to do nudies? Does she believe she is a star now or something? She is hot as all seven hells, but she can't act for the life of her.

Either way, Mel >>>>>>>> Dany (both character and actress) and Team Stannis FTW.

 

[Lothar]

You're mistaken.

You just have to be damned sure you know what you're posting or else.

That's the way it should be. But not all mods adhere strictly to those rules or may not even be aware of it. Also, if you talk about something that happened prior on the show and they don't remember it, guess what? That could be grounds of a banning. That's what happened to me last year.

What's up with Emilia Clarke not wanting to do nudies? Does she believe she is a star now or something? She is hot as all seven hells, but she can't act for the life of her.

It's not true. She was nude in Season 3. And her acting was fine in Season 1. I don't know what happened to her. Why does she have to give every line in the same demanding tone? Maybe it's just bad direction.

 

[Santiako]

What's up with Emilia Clarke not wanting to do nudies? Does she believe she is a star now or something? She is hot as all seven hells, but she can't act for the life of her.

Either way, Mel >>>>>>>> Dany (both character and actress) and Team Stannis FTW.

Melisandre is the hottest girl in the show for sure.

 

[Fuzzy]

That's the way it should be. But not all mods adhere strictly to those rules or may not even be aware of it. Also, if you talk about something that happened prior on the show and they don't remember it, guess what? That could be grounds of a banning. That's what happened to me last year.

And if you notice, I reference which episode when I do talk about something specific to the show when answering a question (like my Jaime/Cercei/Tyrion ages answer).

It's not true. She was nude in Season 3. And her acting was fine in Season 1. I don't know what happened to her. Why does she have to give every line in the same demanding tone? Maybe it's just bad direction.

I also remember people giving good reviews on her work in Breakfast at Tiffany's. She also got naked for that.

 

[Eidan]

Personally I'd love to hear a defense of the change rather than whining about the people who don't like it.

How about the fact that the line changed absolutely nothing about the scene. Not a goddamn thing.

 

[Fuzzy]

How about the fact that the line changed absolutely nothing about the scene. Not a goddamn thing.

Exactly, so why change it if it changed nothing? See the point?

 

[duckroll]

Please don't argue about what people should be doing in another thread here. It is derail, and really annoying. If you have a problem, take it to PM, or take it to a mod. There's way too much backseat modding going on every season for both threads. Just focus on discussing the show and not discussing other people.

 

[SquiddyCracker]

Personally I'd love to hear a defense of the change rather than whining about the people who don't like it.

It flows better when spoken by the actor.
Based on the line "Your sister." sounding more ominous and compelling than what I imagined "Only Cat" would have sounded like.
Or maybe they had him do both lines, and the director though Only Cat sounded kinda dumb when spoken out loud.

It was also a much safer option than trying to do the "Only Cat"-line only to have countless of book fans disappointed because the intonation or whisper-level was not what they imagined. That's the crux here, that you got a small, but loud, minority of show watchers who come into the show with the unrealistic expectations they've built up over the years, as GRRM has kept them content-starved.

If they had gone with "only cat" then I bet the complaints would be along the lines of why did he say it in a batman voice? or that's not what his face should have been like, he should have shown a smidge more of sorrow and revulsion.

 

[Eidan]

Exactly, so why change it if it changed nothing? See the point?

For maximum clarity I'd assume. On a show notorious for people struggling to remember character names (let alone nicknames), it makes sense that they would reference the relationship instead of the name. Why risk having the scene deflated with questions of "Wait, who's Cat?", when there's an easy out that stays true to the scene as it was in the book?

 

[David Incorporated Esq.]

Exactly, so why change it if it changed nothing? See the point?

This discussion has already been cycled through five times over. Here's me from a dozen pages back:

They just wanted to avoid a past-season name-drop in the middle of a powerful scene. Yes, it would have been nice to have it kept the same but they didn't want to muddy the impact of the scene.

It's not ideal but jesus christ you can't have everything.

People come in and complain about the change, the reason behind it gets explained, it dies down, people come in and complain, etc. etc.

Edit: I feel like I'm dealing with 9/11 truthers. "Yeah sure that sounds plausible, but what really happened?!"

 

[bengraven]

You guys built up a cult around those two words.

From a TV perspective, it makes sense because I can picture nearly every non-book reader, especially the ones who don't keep track of peoples' names (and there are a lot of them like that, the ones who are like "Witty Dwarf" and "Whiny Redhead Girl") who would be like "what cat?" "did he say cat?"

I can picture a lot of people already were rewinding their DVRs going "wait, what did he just say?"

Your sister cuts in two ways I think. It's basically saying "only Cat" but also telling those not paying attention "this guy only loves her sister".

And yes, you have to spell it out for people, sadly.

 

[Showaddy]

Yeah, he doesn't have any of ferocity of the first two Mountains, especially the first. The show does a piss poor job with recasting.

The first two Mountains? Are you serious? Conan Stevens was great but the 2nd Mountain was just a skinny guy who sat in a chair awkwardly staring at people. 3rd Mountain is an amazing recast compared to that guy.

 

[Santiako]

The only problem with the new Mountain is that is looks way too young. They are talking about him killing Ellia more than 20 years ago, yet Gregor3 looks like he is in his twenties.

edit: oh, looked him up and he is just 25. Jesus, he is younger than me.

 

[jett]

Yeah I guess they forgot during casting that Gregor is supposed to be the Hound's older brother. Honestly I forgot about it too until yesterday. It's really too bad they couldn't keep Conan Stevens around, but G3 seems fine.

 

[duckroll]

It's funny because the Hound on the show looks like he's in his late 30s or even 40s. Maybe the Lannisters are giving his older brother magic anti-aging cream.

 

[Van Owen]

It's obvious that she's the only main cast member who wants to get naked so they go out of their way to write scenes for it.

Emilia was naked just last season and in a broadway play.

 

[Jibbajabbawockky]

The only problem with the new Mountain is that is looks way too young. They are talking about him killing Ellia more than 20 years ago, yet Gregor3 looks like he is in his twenties.

edit: oh, looked him up and he is just 25. Jesus, he is younger than me.

Well that's probably about the only time we'll ever see him out of armor ever again considering he'll be suited up for his fight and then maybe we'll see his face when he says his last words to Oberyn.

 

[peanutbutterlatte]

It's funny because the Hound on the show looks like he's in his late 30s or even 40s. Maybe the Lannisters are giving his older brother magic anti-aging cream.

Rory McCann (The Hound) is 45, Hafthor Julius Bjornsson (The Mountain) is 26.

 

[Forkball]

ONLY DOG

+All the Tyrion scenes were very emotional in their own special way. It was a really great build-up to the segment with Oberyn. Pascal and Dinklage have been the stand out acting performances this season. Alfie Allen picked a bad season to be incredible. The hype surrounding the battle is now at a fever pitch, which makes the result all the more crushing. I did laugh at Bronn's new clothes.
+Mel's body damndamndamn.gif BUT DON'T YOU DARE HURT SHIREEN
+It's surprising to see how interesting Brienne and Pod's scenes are considering that is often maligned as one of the most boring story arcs in the book (I agree with this). Hot Pie had a great appearance, though it does blow holes in the "Hot Pie is not that good of a baker" theory.

-I feel like the whole "Only Cat" scene was the first big moment the show has fumbled. The scene is very memorable in the book, because it starts off as a very innocent and innocuous moment of Sansa building a snowcastle (which also symbolizes her longing for home, a stark contrast to her earlier desire to leave Winterfell and have a fairy tale life in the south) and escalates into a shocking murder and revelations that make you rethink the entire series thus far. Lysa haphazardly spurting out that info in an earlier scene with zero tension to it really killed that moment, it would have been perfect here. A lot of people say there's no real difference between "Only Cat" and "Your sister" but "Only Cat" definitely has more rhythm. Paraphrasing:

LF: I've only ever loved one woman.
Lysa: You mean it? Only one?
LF: Yes. Only one. ONLY CAT

The repetition of "only" gives it a rhythm that comes to a screeching halt. Also come on, "Only Cat" is one of the most famous one-liners in the series and LF's most famous line.

Anyways, AngryGOTFan will educate us as always:

NOTE TO SELF NEVER TELL ARYA YOUR REAL NAME!!!!! #NOONEUNDERSTAAANDS

CARICE VAN HOUTEN MUST JUST SHOW UP TO SET NAKED #NOONEUNDERSTAAANDS

JON BE LIKE U EVER SEEN A GIANT? #WHIPSOFFPANTS #NOONEUNDERSTAAANDS

THERE ARE MORE BREAD WOLVES THAN DIREWOLVES IN THIS SHOW!!!!!!!!!!! #NOONEUNDERSTAAANDS

ONLY CAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! #NOONEUNDERSTAAANDS

 

[hiryu]

Too anyone complaining about the dialogue change, my wife who never read the books actually gasped out loud when he said your sister. If he had said Only Cat she would have gone WTF? I think it was a good change for the show.

 

[MoogleWizard]

Emilia was naked just last season and in a broadway play.

Then why would they, with all their invented brothel/nude/sex/rape scenes, cut out Dany and Darrio, the one sex scene that actually happens in the books and has some significance for the story?

 

[Forkball]

Vanity Fair wrote an article about why "Your Sister" is a better line. Next up, "Why Ros is my most missed character on the show."

 

[duckroll]

Only cats?

 

[Van Owen]

Then why would they, with all their invented brothel/nude/sex/rape scenes, cut out Dany and Darrio, the one sex scene that actually happens in the books and has some significance for the story?

Why didn't have dany and irri or messendei get in on last season when she did nudity? Why not show her at least kiss Daario? Why didn't Sansa (or a body double) get naked for Tyrion?

 

[Forkball]

Someone is making a Kaz gif out of the moon door push right now.

 

[SquiddyCracker]

LF: I've only ever loved one woman.
Lysa: You mean it? Only one?
LF: Yes. Only one. ONLY CAT

... but that's not how the dialogue went down on the screen?

 

[eot]

The Mountain's scene was comically bad. Why is he slaughtering random people? I get that he was 'training' but come on.

Also, I might be reading too much into it, but it felt like Melisandre was alluding to using a glamour (on herself). She was talking about how lies were necessary as she saw Selyse being insecure about her looks.

edit: went and reminded myself what happens to Lolly's older sister. Heh, I wonder if they'll keep that in.

 

[MoogleWizard]

Why didn't have dany and irri or messendei get in on last season when she did nudity? Why not show her at least kiss Daario? Why didn't Sansa (or a body double) get naked for Tyrion?

Those don't matter all that much. Dany and Daario matters a lot for her character development. I mean, I wasn't too bothered with it, I just found it weird how they cut around that scene and immediately showed red witch boobs and ass to satisfy the HBO nudity quota and make up for the lack of dragon queen boobs.

 

[Forkball]

... but that's not how the dialogue went down on the screen?

It should've man... it should've. I'm more perturbed at Lysa spouting off all her secrets in an earlier scene than about the one-liner though.

The Mountain's scene was comically bad. Why is he slaughtering random people? I get that he was 'training' but come on.

Also, I might be reading too much into it, but it felt like Melisandre was alluding to using a glamour (on herself). She was talking about how lies were necessary as she saw Selyse being insecure about her looks.

Cause he's DA MOUNTAIN

I think Mel's scene was certainly alluding to that. In her ADWD POV she mentions glamor and potions that keep people entertained or scared. There are a lot of theories that Mel is much older than she appears.

Those don't matter all that much. Dany and Daario matters a lot for her character development. I mean, I wasn't too bothered with it, I just found it weird how they cut around that scene and immediately showed red witch boobs and ass to satisfy the HBO nudity quota and make up for the lack of dragon queen boobs.

Any scene cutting away from Daario, whether he's clothed or not, is for the best!

 

[peanutbutterlatte]

Bronn & Tyrion's scene was really good in this too. Actually, all the Tyrion scenes were great.

 

[bengraven]

"I would pay the iron price for you".

 

[Reyne]

“She’s a child, Lysa. Cat’s daughter. What did you think you were doing?”

“Cat never gave you anything."

“I’ve only loved one woman, I promise you.” Lysa Arryn smiled tremulously. “Only one? Oh, Petyr, do you swear it? Only one?”
“Only Cat.”

Who? What is this obscure reference to a cat about?

Spoiler

;P

To be fair, that was the least significant change of the scene, when you think about it. It has no bearing on the plot or the characterization or anything like that. However, I have always found Littlefingers nonchalance after having killed Lysa afterward very striking, particularly considering that they weren't alone either.

Marillion gasped, “You . . . you . . .”
The guards were shouting outside the door, pounding with the butts of their heavy spears. Lord Petyr pulled Sansa to her feet. “You’re not hurt?” When she shook her head, he said, “Run let my guards in, then. Quick now, there’s no time to lose. This singer’s killed my lady wife.”

Now there is Littlefinger, always a step ahead. Just murdered a woman he had known his whole life and he didn't bat his eye to name someone else present at the scene the killer. I guess they will conjure up some scapegoat later on or whatever, though it certainly won't have much of an impact.
Like others, I wish they would spend less time on Melisandres tits rather than rushing the snow castle scene.

Either way, I mostly enjoyed todays episode. Tyrion and Bronn and then Oberyn scenes were very well done. The switch-up of the trial and the reveal of who'll be the champion is paying off, as the reveal was, you could say, more dramatic and there is a sense of hopelessness before Oberyn comes in. Tyrions pang of relief says it all. Great acting.

 

[peanutbutterlatte]

Is it sadistic to say I'm looking forward to Tyrion falling even further from grace? Dinklage has got chops.

 

[Fey]

-I feel like the whole "Only Cat" scene was the first big moment the show has fumbled. The scene is very memorable in the book, because it starts off as a very innocent and innocuous moment of Sansa building a snowcastle (which also symbolizes her longing for home, a stark contrast to her earlier desire to leave Winterfell and have a fairy tale life in the south) and escalates into a shocking murder and revelations that make you rethink the entire series thus far. Lysa haphazardly spurting out that info in an earlier scene with zero tension to it really killed that moment, it would have been perfect here. A lot of people say there's no real difference between "Only Cat" and "Your sister" but "Only Cat" definitely has more rhythm. Paraphrasing:

LF: I've only ever loved one woman.
Lysa: You mean it? Only one?
LF: Yes. Only one. ONLY CAT

The repetition of "only" gives it a rhythm that comes to a screeching halt. Also come on, "Only Cat" is one of the most famous one-liners in the series and LF's most famous line.

Yeah, just saw the episode, and am really disappointed with how they handled the entire segment - from the snow castle to Lysa's death. The former wasn't even close to being as touching as it was in the book (and Sansa snapping at Robin after he was being genuinely kind to her just because he accidentally messed up the castle did indeed feel very bratty and unnecessary, particularly because we don't know/see why exactly it would upset her so much) and the latter lacked the intensity the scene had in the book. Both of the scenes felt very short and rushed, too. (Also, I find it interesting that they didn't have Lysa repeat that she killed Jon again, since I thought it was significant in the book that Sansa is aware of what LF has made Lysa do ... but perhaps she'll just demand LF to tell her who he had Lysa kill, like she demanded to know why he had Joffrey killed.)

I don't really care that they changed "Only Cat" though, because I feel like many people would be like "Only who/what?????????? Whatdid he say???" The scene was disappointing for other reasons.

 

[Pai Pai Master]

'your sister' was fine. Maybe a pointless change but it didn't change the scene in any major way. However, they really messed up but not letting the snow castle scene develop, I think that was biggest misstep and it felt pretty meaningless while in the books it felt like a major moment for Sansa.

Yeah was hoping for a quiet, personal moment with Sansa building the Snow Winterfell before Robert came in. But the episode was pretty packed. I wish they had saved the moon door moment for the next episode and closed with Lysa seeing Sansa and Littlefinger.

 

[WhereAreMahDragonz]

Hello

 

[m_shortpants]

His accent probably screwed it up so they changed it.

"ooooonnnnnnllly caaaaaahhhhttt"

 

[David Incorporated Esq.]

Yeah was hoping for a quiet, personal moment with Sansa building the Snow Winterfell before Robert came in. But the episode was pretty packed. I wish they had saved the moon door moment for the next episode and closed with Lysa seeing Sansa and Littlefinger.

Well there was a quiet moment there but it was overshadowed by everything that came after. I would have liked a longer shot though, to really let things settle down and clue the audience in to the changes in Sansa's character.

 

[MacNille]

That scene with Oberyn \o/. I will miss him. I didn't mind so much over the line that they changed. I still like it well enough.

 

[Boom Boom Pow]

just saw the episode. really? ppl are bitching about your sister? that was perfectly fine.

 

[Pai Pai Master]

Well there was a quiet moment there but it was overshadowed by everything that came after. I would have liked a longer shot though, to really let things settle down and clue the audience in to the changes in Sansa's character.

Yeah it was there but fleeting, and didn't have time to really settle in. They could have lingered a little longer on it, instead of on Carice's boobs. Not that I am in any way complaining about her boobs - but it was still a very packed episode and I was really looking forward to this moment. They didn't botch it, but it was a favourite from the book which could have been served better with another minute of screen time at most.