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'Shirtstorm' Leads To Apology From European Space Scientist

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N

Napoleonthechimp

Member
berzeli said:
What should she have asked him and when? "Sir, are you a misogynist?" She was criticising his choice of attire since she felt it wasn't appropriate.

And yet again seeing how Matt Taylor seemingly agrees with the criticism, why should she be severely punished for being slightly rude?
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She's being rhetorical when she says "just ask the dude in this shirt" to others. But as a journalist she should've been objective enough to actually get the full picture by following through on what she asked of others.

Being "slightly rude" takes on a new meaning when it spirals into a full on internet campaign that reduces a grown man to tears when he should've been celebrating his achievements.

The fact that the verge cares more about a man's choice of shirt rather than actual scientific achievements tells me all I need to know about them.
 
K

Kinyou

Member
Forkball said:
Frankly I'm glad someone is standing up to European fashion. Look at this shit:

GTsqkiX.jpg


Everyone in this photo is a chemical engineer.
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STEM, not even once
 
G

ghst

thanks for the laugh
if you went back in time to tell me that in a couple of decades a metalhead wearing that shirt was going to land a probe on a comet, i'd have thought the future was going to be so fucking cool.
 
B

berzeli

Banned
Napoleonthechimp said:
She's being rhetorical when she says "just ask the dude in this shirt" to others. But as a journalist she should've been objective enough to actually get the full picture by following through on what she asked of others.
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Yet again, what should she have asked him? What is this "full picture"? Why should she be objective about her subjective opinion? Sorry responding with questions, but seriously she is commenting on a live event and found something she didn't like. She writes a couple of tweets and retweets some, this is not some professional journalistic endeavour, it's privately (but publicly) commenting.

Being "slightly rude" takes on a new meaning when it spirals into a full on internet campaign that reduces a grown man to tears when he should've been celebrating his achievements.
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But how is that her fault and why should she be punished for it? Sorry again for questions, but I can't see why people are focusing so much on her being at fault when Matt Taylor seemingly agrees with her in her comments.

The fact that the verge cares more about a man's choice of shirt rather than actual scientific achievements tells me all I need to know about them.
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You can be both critical of his shirt and celebrate his achievement, and one does not cancel out the other.
 
D

Dennis

Banned
ghst said:
if you went back in time to tell me that in a couple of decades a metalhead wearing that shirt was going to land a probe on a comet, i'd have thought the future was going to be so fucking cool.
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That was in the pre stick-in-ass era of human civilization. Now everything is an international outrage.
 
B

Bulbo Urethral Baggins

Banned
wsippel said:
It's not. What I'm saying is that NYT articles about the situation in the US and studies conducted there do not necessarily apply here.
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I see.
Sorry for misconstruing your intentions.
I guess I just wanted to say that women are the future of science here in the US.
And I'm ready for that.
Even with all the hassles that come with it like "ma'am, do I really have to shower this week"? and having to add toenail polish to our hazardous materials inventory.

Seriously though. The second sentence is true.
 
G

ghst

thanks for the laugh
i'd put the shirt about on a par with his achievements. they compliment each other. like using quantum entanglement to play a judas priest solo from mars.
 
M

MacNille

Banned
Disgusting to see people attacking him and bulling him into apologize for his shirt. Yes. THEY bullied him into doing it by attacking him over a fucking shirt. I hope that they are proud over themselves those fucking cowards. If they get attack, they will go running to the woods, crying like the bitches that they are. Fuck all of them and fuck you if you defend their actions based "they fight against sexism" crap. They are bullies. They are and will always be bullies. ¨

672c0806fc49b8e96652061391a0a3f1dd.png


Yes, I'm mad over this.
 
L

Log4Girlz

Member
MacNille said:
Disgusting to see people attacking him and bulling him into apologize for his shirt. Yes. THEY bullied him into doing it by attacking him over a fucking shirt. I hope that they are proud over themselves those fucking cowards. If they get attack, they will go running to the woods, crying like the bitches that they are. Fuck all of them and fuck you if you defend their actions based "they fight against sexism" crap. They are bullies. They are and will always be bullies. ¨

672c0806fc49b8e96652061391a0a3f1dd.png


Yes, I'm mad over this.
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And all he wanted to do was wear a shirt with sexy women on it. What do people have against women?
 
Phoenix

Phoenix

Member
I guess I see this a little different. I doubt the guy purchased the shirt for this event. He has been wearing this shirt and maybe others like it for a while - and there was no shirtstorm then. Only because he is caught wearing it during this event was he even called out for it.

I wouldn't wear it because it is a terrible looking shirt, but unless we start imposing some dress code on humanity - we need to really let up on this sort of thing.
 
R

RefigeKru

Banned
If I'm in a lecture and the tutor is wearing a Haile Selassie shirt, but he's not black or a rasta, as a young Jamaican boy with a Rastafarian upbringing am I then capable of openly projecting my personal gripes with institutional racism through that shirt?

I'm trying to imagine if that shirt would be offensive, or a Bob Marley, MLK shirt, or Arsene Wenger wearing an N.W.A shirt when there's no black football managers blah blah. But I just wouldn't be offended.
 
Daffy Duck

Daffy Duck

Member
RedShift said:
Yep, I think I've just about had it with the whole internet outrage culture thing.

I can't believe some people are so desperate to be offended they can't see a tacky shirt without starting a harassment campaign.
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Pretty much this. It's crazy that people get so bent out of shape over a shirt.
 
B

berzeli

Banned
MacNille said:
Disgusting to see people attacking him and bulling him into apologize for his shirt. Yes. THEY bullied him into doing it by attacking him over a fucking shirt. I hope that they are proud over themselves those fucking cowards. If they get attack, they will go running to the woods, crying like the bitches that they are. Fuck all of them and fuck you if you defend their actions based "they fight against sexism" crap. They are bullies. They are and will always be bullies. ¨


Yes, I'm mad over this.
Click to expand...

... Is this in any way, shape or form necessary?

RefigeKru said:
If I'm in a lecture and the tutor is wearing a Haile Selassie shirt, but he's not black or a rasta, as a young Jamaican boy with a Rastafarian upbringing am I then capable of openly projecting my personal gripes with institutional racism through that shirt?

I'm trying to imagine if that shirt would be offensive, or a Bob Marley, MLK shirt, or Arsene Wenger wearing an N.W.A shirt when there's no black football managers blah blah. But I just wouldn't be offended.
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What if he wore a shirt with blackface? Or portraying blacks as bad at maths? Here are some instagram links by the maker of the shirt 1, 2, 3. Note the hashtag "#spacesluts", this is a shirt that it is very easy to see as portraying women in a negative light. I don't think it is appropriate for someone in his position to wear something decorated with scantily clad women and if a tutor was wearing something like this I would also find it inappropriate. And since STEM is viewed as a bit of a boys club this just reinforces negative and harmful stereotypes.
 
B

Bulbo Urethral Baggins

Banned
You Europeans need to stop beating your heads over this.
This is the story of a guy who wore a shirt that shamelessly celebrated his enthusiasm after waiting 10 years for this fucking thing to score a TD. It's not like he dropped the ball before crossing the goal line. That happens here. It didn't happen there.
How about celebrate?
 
PJV3

PJV3

Member
It's risky wearing a shirt like that with the media and people who don't know you being able to see it. Someone should have had a word with him before he started talking to the journalists.
 
R

radios shipping overview

Member
Dr.Acula said:
Wat?

lzFxUvJ.png


Waaaaaat. So the shirt WAS a gag-gift?

So maybe he didn't even realise what he was grabbing when he picked up the shirt out of the "clean" basket and threw it on?

See, this is why you should never be your offices "Hawaiian shirt guy." Just wear solid colours and keep your head down.
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He must've worn the shirt that day because it had sentimental value to him and he wanted to show appreciation to his friend and reference his subculture. But context gets lost easily, especially when you go on international TV. It's a shame he had to find out the hard way how many people would perceive his shirt. There are no real winners here, but there were lessons learned, and with a little judicious sensitivity, it's possible to avoid these kinds of hurt feelings.

He's a reasonably good-looking guy, especially in a more professional black:

7c69c845-c908-4bdb-b6a5-1eee25fa6fb7-680x1020.jpeg
 
F

freenudemacusers

Member
jiji said:
He must've worn the shirt that day because it had sentimental value to him and he wanted to show appreciation to his friend and reference his subculture. But context gets lost easily, especially when you go on international TV. It's a shame he had to find out the hard way how many people would perceive his shirt. There are no real winners here, but there were lessons learned, and with a little judicious sensitivity, it's possible to avoid these kinds of hurt feelings.

He's a reasonably good-looking guy, especially in a more professional black:

7c69c845-c908-4bdb-b6a5-1eee25fa6fb7-680x1020.jpeg
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I don't blame him for wearing a novelty print shirt whenever possible. Company logo polos are literally satan.

edit: actually it looks like he wore the shirt over his polo. I have to deduct points for that.
 
S

SkyOdin

Member
thequickandthedead said:
so is the problem that he owns the shirt at all or just that he was wearing it in public?
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The problem was that he wore it on television in front of an international audience while acting as a representative for a field that currently has a problem with being friendly and welcoming to women. No one cares what he wears at home. There is just a higher level of decorum expected of people when the entire world is watching.
 
T

thequickandthedead

Member
SkyOdin said:
The problem was that he wore it on television in front of an international audience while acting as a representative for a field that currently has a problem with being friendly and welcoming to women. No one cares what he wears at home. There is just a higher level of decorum expected of people when the entire world is watching.
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So it's about professionalism? Fair enough.
 
O

Opto

Banned
AppleMIX said:
You're a grown adult, you can wear what ever the fuck you want.
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No, I want the complete package. I want the full Freedom Patrol coming to my defense and dismissing any criticism people may have against whatever message my attire sends out.
 
A

AppleMIX

Member
Opto said:
By the laws of free speech, I shouldn't get any flak for that either. It's just a shirt!
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The problem is that many people see the flak as completely unjustified and stupid. That is why a lot of people (even liberals like myself) are dismissing it. Just because someone is giving flak doesn't automatically mean the flak is justified.

That why people are criticizing it.
 
R

raphier

Banned
SkyOdin said:
The problem was that he wore it on television in front of an international audience while acting as a representative for a field that currently has a problem with being friendly and welcoming to women. No one cares what he wears at home. There is just a higher level of decorum expected of people when the entire world is watching.
Click to expand...
You are saying if he was wearing a simple hawaiian shirt with no drawn women on it, this boring controversy would still be a thing? Nah, it's clearly driven by gender equality bias, there is nothing more to it.
 
T

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
raphier said:
You are saying if he was wearing a simple hawaiian shirt with no drawn women on it, this boring controversy would still be a thing? Nah, it's clearly driven by gender equality bias, there is nothing more to it.
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What? No, that's not what he's saying at all. Did you miss the point where he said "a field that currently has problems being friendly and welcoming to women"?
 
B

berzeli

Banned
AppleMIX said:
The problem is that many people see the flak as completely unjustified and stupid. That is why a lot of people (even liberals like myself) are dismissing it. Just because someone is giving flak doesn't automatically mean the flak is justified. Also, no one is denying you your right to talk shit but don't expect people to let you just talk shit and get away with it.

People are going to criticize you.
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But the man in question isn't dismissing it, he seemingly thought that the critics had a point otherwise I find it unlikely that he would have apologised in the way he did.

Also I find it extremely disingenuous to describe the criticism of his shirt as giving flak and talking shit while calling the frankly disgusting backlash as "people criticising".
 
K

King Cobra

Banned
It's a absolute shame, this man has helped accomplish a great feat yet they gave to time of day to people who contribute nothing to society. He should have never apologized, it's kind of sad that he did.
 
W

Walshicus

Member
Opto said:
No, I want the complete package. I want the full Freedom Patrol coming to my defense and dismissing any criticism people may have against whatever message my attire sends out.
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I guess the fundamental point you might have missed is that many (most) people don't see sexual imagery as inherently *sexist*. And I guess for those who do it's just too bad. Conversely, a written message on a shirt that is explicitly derogatory to one gender *is* sexist.

Let's flip the genders of everyone involved in this story. A female scientist is interviewed by a man, while she wears a garish shirt with cartoon biker guys in skimpy leathers and displays her arm tattoos. The reaction here would be completely different. You wouldn't call her sexist, you'd be using words like empowered and confident.

Let's take that further though and have a male journalist use twitter to call this female scientist an 'asshole' for her choice of attire. Are we even going to pretend that you wouldn't (rightly) be outraged at said fictional male journalist?


Sexism is applying standards to one gender that you don't to the other.
 
poppabk

poppabk

Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
jiji said:
NASA's Mission Control had a polished look in the 60s:

Apollo-11-flight-crew.jpg


But these days it looks like they've adopted the Best Buy look:

g-120805-cvr-mars-11p.grid-6x2.jpg
Click to expand...
Now those look like female friendly workplaces. Let's just ask one of the wom... Ooh wait I think I see one at the back.
 
R

radios shipping overview

Member
poppabk said:
Now those look like female friendly workplaces. Let's just ask one of the wom... Ooh wait I think I see one at the back.
Click to expand...

Exclusionary culture goes far beyond just wardrobe, as you can see. I was talking purely about professionalism in appearance.

Sir Fragula said:
Let's flip the genders of everyone involved in this story. A female scientist is interviewed by a man, while she wears a garish shirt with cartoon biker guys in skimpy leathers and displays her arm tattoos. The reaction here would be completely different. You wouldn't call her sexist, you'd be using words like empowered and confident.

Let's take that further though and have a male journalist use twitter to call this female scientist an 'asshole' for her choice of attire. Are we even going to pretend that you wouldn't (rightly) be outraged at said fictional male journalist?
Click to expand...

That's a nice story. Do you believe that a female scientist dressing unprofessionally during a televised event wouldn't be raked over the coals, have her credibility questioned, and be called all sorts of nasty names?

Edit: Oh, topical: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=933397
 
A

AppleMIX

Member
berzeli said:
But the man in question isn't dismissing it, he seemingly thought that the critics had a point otherwise I find it unlikely that he would have apologised in the way he did.

Also I find it extremely disingenuous to describe the criticism of his shirt as giving flak and talking shit while calling the frankly disgusting backlash as "people criticising".
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According to google criticism is...

the expression of disapproval of someone or something based on perceived faults or mistakes.

Even rude criticism is still criticism.

Of course some people take it to far... we've seen it all the time. Internet gonna internet.

Just because some people go to far doesn't disqualify the many people who have legitimately criticized this in a reasonably respectable manner.

Also there are a million reasons why apologized and even if he did think it was sexist that doesn't mean the general masses have to agree with him.

Edit:Also I was using the word flak because Opto was using it and to be frank it is just a pointless semantics debate. I don't consider giving flak to be a inherently negative way to criticize someone.
 
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