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[serversurfer]

Edit: ^^^ Consoles and handhelds are fairly separate markets, and the latter was largely swallowed by the advent of the iPhone.

of course hardware is up. it's a new generation and people should be buying more. also, people weren't buying a whole lot last year. also it's a comparison of old consoles to new consoles in terms of revenue, with current consoles being $140 or more versus the things available last year.

So why all the panic, when people are spending just as much as they've spent before, and now they're largely spending it on, "Yes, five+ more years of this, please"?

 

[ninjablade]

I never understood the wii comparison, a repackaged GC with motion controls is not what the traditional market wants as a nextgen console. sony is selling to the traditional market, PlayStation has been the dominant brand in console gaming every gen, nintendo has been in decline since the nes every gen, except for the wii, which was Nintendo last hope of trying to be relevant in the console market, they hit lighting in a bottle, people that were never into gaming went crazy over motion controls, a new way to play games, then they lost interest, third party's didn't know what type of games to make for it, except for shovel ware. that market had a nice run but it was never gonna last in the traditional console market.

 

[sörine]

It's still irrelevant because that wasn't the price most people paid for it. The existance of scalping does not mean that every console would have been sold at 400$

No, but it indicates that MSRP doesn't correlate to the real platform value. Consumer demand massively outstripped it, Wii was still sold out at this point in it's cycle and the aftermarket for the system was insanely high. There's zero scalping or supply constraint for PS4 by comparison (outside LEs), so $399 is probably a much more accurate reflection of what consumers think it's actually worth.

Saying $250 vs $399 is incredibly reductive and sort of disingenuous. Anyone who wants a PS4 now can easily get one for $399. If you wanted a Wii in fall 2007 however you either had to be incredibly lucky or ready to pay well above MSRP, possibly double it. Even used Wiis were going for well above retail.

 

[BadWolf]

and yes, systems made to sell at $300 or $250 would be great. i feel like $400 was too much to ask for in 1995 and it's too much to ask for in 2014.

Yet ppl are still complaining that the new consoles are weak. They have to find a balance between power and price.

At $250 or $300 they wouldn't be able to offer the generational leap that the core audience expects. The same audience that Sony catered so well to and is making the PS4 sell record numbers.

Why screw over that loyal audience for another that might never come or leaves just as fast as it comes?

 

[Curufinwe]

No, but it indicates that MSRP doesn't correlate to the real platform value. Consumer demand massively outstripped it, Wii was still sold out at this point in it's cycle and the aftermarket for the system was insanely high. There's zero scalping or supply constraint for PS4 by comparison (outside LEs), so $399 is probably a much more accurate reflection of what consumers think it's actually worth.

Saying $250 vs $399 is incredibly reductive and sort of disingenuous. Anyone who wants a PS4 now can easily get one for $399. If you wanted a Wii in fall 2007 however you either had to be incredibly lucky or ready to pay well above MSRP, possibly double it. Even used Wiis were going for well above retail.

My wife wanted a Wii back then, but we didn't see one in a store until September 2008.

 

[AniHawk]

So why all the panic, when people are spending just as much as they've spent before, and now they're largely spending it on, "Yes, five+ more years of this, please"?

because it's not the full picture. there's also the 28% drop in year over year sales for software. with rising development costs, with extra costs associated with games to customers, steady sales aren't a great thing. there needs to be growth in the traditional market. instead there's consolidation.

 

[ThoughtsOfSpeaking]

From the OP:
Overall retail sales down less than 1% year over year.
Hardware up 59% year over year

The console industry seems pretty healthy to me. /shrug

Mr. N. should be careful what he wishes for though. If "core" console gaming dies out by the end of next year, people won't flock back to Nintendo instead. If console gaming dies, it'll be because people decided they didn't care about that kind of game any more, and were perfectly satisfied with Flappy Bird and Clash of Clans. Fortunately for Mr. N., I don't really see that happening any time soon, so he'll be able to continue to begrudgingly enjoy AAA games, back-ported and up-rezzed from the much-hated console.

Fixed for accuracy.

 

[AniHawk]

Yet ppl are still complaining that the new consoles are weak. They have to find a balance between power and price.

At $250 or $300 they wouldn't be able to offer the generational leap that the core audience expects. The same audience that Sony catered so well to and is making the PS4 sell record numbers.

Why screw over that loyal audience for another that might never come or leaves just as fast as it comes?

again, that's a failing of microsoft and sony. they wanted this market they've created and now they have to deal with the consequences.

 

[Fdkn]

sony and microsoft have held off making a product affordable for the mass-market since around 2004. sony eventually made the ps2 $100 when it was nine years old. the ps3 and 360 should have hit the $149.99 price at some point in 2010 or at least when the third version of each platform actually made it to the market. but if sony and microsoft want to make an expanded userbase by making dedicated gaming hardware too expensive to buy in or drop the price on comfortably as time goes on, that's the bed they'll have to sleep in.

and yes, systems made to sell at $300 or $250 would be great. i feel like $400 was too much to ask for in 1995 and it's too much to ask for in 2014.

edit: and nintendo is super guilty of this too. $349.99 for a video game system - what were they thinking. and over $149.99 for a handheld is crazy (and i still believe handhelds should be $100 with $30 games).

Gotta go so I can't make a long post, but you should check inflation from 1995 until now before saying those things. Ps4 had actually the cheaper playstation launch price ever.

About the pricedropping of last gen consoles, sony has admited numerous times that cell is the cause of that, they can't drop the price without incurring in losses again. They have also stated that ps4 is designed with pricedrops ala ps2 in mind again. They are selling faster than ever at 400$ so your impression about what they should cost is irrelevant about telling what the market thinks.

 

[ninjablade]

Fixed for accuracy.

LOL you hit the nail right on head.

 

[BadWolf]

again, that's a failing of microsoft and sony. they wanted this market they've created and now they have to deal with the consequences.

Is PS4 not the fast selling console to date? I'm sure Sony is more than pleased to deal with the consequences.

 

[AniHawk]

Gotta go so I can't make a long post, but you should check inflation from 1995 until now before saying those things. Ps4 had actually the cheaper playstation launch price ever.

About the pricedropping of last gen consoles, sony has admited numerous times that cell is the cause of that, they can't drop the price without incurring in losses again. They have also stated that ps4 is designed with pricedrops ala ps2 in mind again. They are selling faster than ever at 400$ so your impression about what they should cost is irrelevant about telling what the market thinks.

again, my theories are centered around the idea that the platform was experiencing frontloaded sales, as the audience they have built has been trained to buy on day one. it inflated expectations for the console where in months after march, it was selling more like a second place console than a market leader. it also seems to be selling to a very specific brand of gamer, unless having the largest userbase in the us makes the platform immune to family-friendly titles selling well.

 

[AniHawk]

Is PS4 not the fast selling console to date? I'm sure Sony is more than pleased to deal with the consequences.

and that's super neat for the short-term, but i'm thinking about the long game here, and also in the framing of microsoft and sony.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

Fixed for accuracy.

That is also not taking into count DD sales.

 

[small44]

what about the psp - was that a fad? it sold more units than the gba and yet its successor may not sell more units than the game gear, or wii u for that matter. what about the ds which sold almost as many units as the ps2, only to see its successor fall short of the gba/psp? how many entire segments of the market need to fall off before it raises alarm?

Look at PSP support vs Vita support you will see why PSP sold well and Vita no

 

[BadWolf]

and that's super neat for the short-term, but i'm thinking about the long game here, and also in the framing of microsoft and sony.

Fair enough, I'm very interested to see how things turn out because ppl keep trying to think negatively despite the PS4's success. That would be like trying to think negative of the PS2 just because the Xbox and GC were not doing well.

 

[Superman00]

and that's super neat for the short-term, but i'm thinking about the long game here, and also in the framing of microsoft and sony.

Sony are going to ship at least 15 millions this year for the PS4. Are you saying as more games come out and the price are reduced, that they are gonna sell less than this year? That as the next GTA, Gran Turismo(huge in Europe), FFXV, and others that they are gonna sell less?

 

[AniHawk]

Look at PSP support vs Vita support you will see why PSP sold well and Vita no

yeah, because a lot of people who supported the psp either moved away from the platform or went on to a different part of the market entirely. there wasn't a conspiracy against the vita to kill it early on. developers gave it a shot and they weren't rewarded with sales. i'd argue that both sony and nintendo have had an identity crisis in the handheld arena though. nintendo more recently (with the dsi and at least the 3ds), and sony always.

Fair enough, I'm very interested to see how things turn out because ppl keep trying to think negatively despite the PS4's success. That would be like trying to think negative of the PS2 just because the Xbox and GC were not doing well.

the ps2 was something else. not only did it sell well, it did it enormously well all over the world. the ps4 has europe and is basically leading in america by default, not due to some sort of amazing crazy sales. and right now it's selling on par with the dreamcast in japan. see the ps2 at least was broadening gaming's horizons by reaching many kinds of people across different cultures, which brought on all kinds of games and experiences. the ps4 is more focused on a single but lucrative demographic. sony's done a really good job of nailing that demographic, but i don't think it speaks much to the broadening of the market.

Sony are going to ship at least 15 millions this year for the PS4. Are you saying as more games come out and the price are reduced, that they are gonna sell less than this year? That as the next GTA, Gran Turismo(huge in Europe), FFXV, and others that they are gonna sell less?

i don't think it'll sell less. i think it just won't be the ps1-beating machine some people are building it up to be. of all the current platforms, i do think it's the only one that has a chance of outselling its predecessor.

however, i also don't see the system suddenly becoming the sales phenom the ps2 and the wii were. the current frontloaded sales will probably be replaced by steadier sales year over year. somewhat similar to the 3ds and how it never rose above the 14m it did early on despite having plenty of games that appealed to the traditional handheld market.

 

[serversurfer]

because it's not the full picture.

Well, speaking of "the full picture," I was actually going to point out that if we really want to know how healthy the console market is, we really need to compare it with other forms of consumer spending, and ideally, similar forms of consumer spending, like "entertainment" or something. Even if console revenues are down 10%, if entertainment revenues as a whole are down 20%, then consoles would actually be comparatively strong in the market segment.

there's also the 28% drop in year over year sales for software. with rising development costs, with extra costs associated with games to customers, steady sales aren't a great thing. there needs to be growth in the traditional market. instead there's consolidation.

Sure, but consumer spending has a cap. If I spend an average of $50/mo on video games and I buy a $400 piece of hardware, that only leaves me $200 to spend on software this year, unless I switch to Top Ramen to feed my habit. Next year, I'll be back to spending $600 on games, or maybe even a little bit more, since I've got the new hotness and access to impulse-purchasing.

 

[Superman00]

i don't think it'll sell less. i think it just won't be the ps1-beating machine some people are building it up to be. of all the current platforms, i do think it's the only one that has a chance of outselling its predecessor.

however, i also don't see the system suddenly becoming the sales phenom the ps2 and the wii were. the current frontloaded sales will probably be replaced by steadier sales year over year. somewhat similar to the 3ds and how it never rose above the 14m it did early on despite having plenty of games that appealed to the traditional handheld market.

I understand what you're getting at but unlike the Wii where it was a fad and sales completely died off. Even if the console cycle is 5 years, it's still gonna sell more after that.

 

[ninjablade]

the ps2 was something else. not only did it sell well, it did it enormously well all over the world. the ps4 has europe and is basically leading in america by default, not due to some sort of amazing crazy sales. and right now it's selling on par with the dreamcast in japan. see the ps2 at least was broadening gaming's horizons by reaching many kinds of people across different cultures, which brought on all kinds of games and experiences. the ps4 is more focused on a single but lucrative demographic. sony's done a really good job of nailing that demographic, but i don't think it speaks much to the broadening of the market.



t.

The ps4 is selling amazing well World wide except for japan. i think you're forgetting that in the US it has strong competition from the xbone, something the ps2 never had to worry about. the fact that the ps4 is selling so well mostly with cross gen games, and no real killer app tells me the market is only getting bigger.

 

[StevieP]

I understand what you're getting at but unlike the Wii where it was a fad and sales completely died off. Even if the console cycle is 5 years, it's still gonna sell more after that.

Man the Wii still has people so salty.

If the PS4 sells well for 4-5 years and dies off afterward (and sells a healthy amount of software, with a healthy attach rate while doing so), it's a fad - right?

I mean anyone and their mother can figure out this isn't going to be a 7-8 year generation.

 

[ninjablade]

Man the Wii still has people so salty.

If the PS4 sells well for 4-5 years and dies off afterward (and sells a healthy amount of software, with a healthy attach rate while doing so), it's a fad - right?

I mean anyone and their mother can figure out this isn't going to be a 7-8 year generation.

the wii is a fad because we never saw nothing like in the traditional console market, when has a console sold so amazing well, only to drop in sales like a rock, after 4-5 year with nobody caring for it's successor.

 

[BadWolf]

The Wii had a new audience that came and left during that console's life, simple as that.

Even Nintendo themselves were well aware of this and aimed for the core with the WiiU.

 

[AniHawk]

Well, speaking of "the full picture," I was actually going to point out that if we really want to know how healthy the console market is, we really need to compare it with other forms of consumer spending, and ideally, similar forms of consumer spending, like "entertainment" or something. Even if console revenues are down 10%, if entertainment revenues as a whole are down 20%, then consoles would actually be comparatively strong in the market segment.


Sure, but consumer spending has a cap. If I spend an average of $50/mo on video games and I buy a $400 piece of hardware, that only leaves me $200 to spend on software this year, unless I switch to Top Ramen to feed my habit. Next year, I'll be back to spending $600 on games, or maybe even a little bit more, since I've got the new hotness and access to impulse-purchasing.

i mean, that is the optimistic scenario. if it wasn't for pokemon last year, there would have been three years of decline in software sales from 2012 to now.

 

[geordiemp]

what about the psp - was that a fad? it sold more units than the gba and yet its successor may not sell more units than the game gear, or wii u for that matter. what about the ds which sold almost as many units as the ps2, only to see its successor fall short of the gba/psp? how many entire segments of the market need to fall off before it raises alarm?

Correct me if I am wrong as not really into handhelds and its changed considerably since smart phones and tablets, but I understand some of those were heavily hacked and so it was games for free for many...

Not my scene though

 

[small44]

yeah, because a lot of people who supported the psp either moved away from the platform or went on to a different part of the market entirely. there wasn't a conspiracy against the vita to kill it early on. developers gave it a shot and they weren't rewarded with sales. i'd argue that both sony and nintendo have had an identity crisis in the handheld arena though. nintendo more recently (with the dsi and at least the 3ds), and sony always.



the ps2 was something else. not only did it sell well, it did it enormously well all over the world. the ps4 has europe and is basically leading in america by default, not due to some sort of amazing crazy sales. and right now it's selling on par with the dreamcast in japan. see the ps2 at least was broadening gaming's horizons by reaching many kinds of people across different cultures, which brought on all kinds of games and experiences. the ps4 is more focused on a single but lucrative demographic. sony's done a really good job of nailing that demographic, but i don't think it speaks much to the broadening of the market.



i don't think it'll sell less. i think it just won't be the ps1-beating machine some people are building it up to be. of all the current platforms, i do think it's the only one that has a chance of outselling its predecessor.

however, i also don't see the system suddenly becoming the sales phenom the ps2 and the wii were. the current frontloaded sales will probably be replaced by steadier sales year over year. somewhat similar to the 3ds and how it never rose above the 14m it did early on despite having plenty of games that appealed to the traditional handheld market.

People who support PSP didn't buy a Vita because they favorite game on not on the system they didn't go anywhere.
In not true 3rd party never support Vita,the only studio who make effort on Vita is Ubisoft other studios just made old port this is not a support.
Konami released 3 exclusive Metal gear solid spin off on PSP on Vita they just released an multiplatform HD on it, and they didn't even release Pro evolution soccer on it,Square enix release 10 Final fantasy game between port and exclusive spin off on PSP but on Vita they just release 1 hd port and some low quality new IP,they release 2 Kingdom Hearts on PSP and none on Vita,PSP had Monster Hunter and Gta games Vita don't have them,PSP had a ton of multiplatform games with ps3,PSV didn't have that.
Ps4 support in Japan is just awfull that's why it sold that poorly in Japan it's seem to change by the begining of 2015.
PS4 will probably sell less then PS2 but it will still sell well 100 millions minimum.

 

[Superman00]

Man the Wii still has people so salty.

If the PS4 sells well for 4-5 years and dies off afterward (and sells a healthy amount of software, with a healthy attach rate while doing so), it's a fad - right?

I mean anyone and their mother can figure out this isn't going to be a 7-8 year generation.

Why would I be salty? I'm stating an observation based on relevant data. When the Wii was selling like crazy a bunch of people that don't play console games bought it. Only about half my friends that normally play console games bought the Wii, while a bunch of them that never/rarely play any console games bought the Wii cause the motion control was interesting and fun and it was the 'cool' gadget at the time. Guess what those casual players had in common? Pretty much all of them were girls that never really play games. They bought like a couple games at most. Now they are back to playing games and what not on their phones. While all the my friends that play console game regularly moved on mostly to the PS4.

So no when I say the Wii is a 'fad', not because I'm salty but because it is that the definition of a fad.

 

[Raist]

Mobile is a factor, people who could potentially buy a home console, can now be satisfied with games on smartphones and tablets.

This is more harmful for handhelds, but home consoles suffer too.

I don't think these 2 markets overlap all that much. It's hard to believe people who used to or could have bought a console are fine with angry birds and candy crush instead.

 

[AniHawk]

I understand what you're getting at but unlike the Wii where it was a fad and sales completely died off. Even if the console cycle is 5 years, it's still gonna sell more after that.

entire segments of the industry shouldn't die off. if the cinematic voice-acting games of the ps1 era died off, it wouldn't mean the ps1 was a fad. it would mean the console manufacturers were unable to retain the audience they created. that is a fault with nintendo and microsoft to an extent. sony should also take some blame for not reaching out to this audience more meaningfully, but really it's sort of everyone's fault that the audience was treated like crap for five years. it's no wonder why it left for greener pastures.

Correct me if I am wrong as not really into handhelds and its changed considerably since smart phones and tablets, but I understand some of those were heavily hacked and so it was games for free for many...

Not my scene though

the psp still sold an average of about 4.25:1 regarding its software to hardware ratio. that is pretty much in line with the gba and gb/gbc, which never sold more than 4.5:1. even the 3ds is pretty close to the amount of software the psp moved. the psp was basically a normal handheld. the concerns over piracy were kind of blown out of proportion. the ds saw piracy in the form of r4 cards, yet it sold close to a billion units in software.

The ps4 is selling amazing well World wide except for japan. i think you're forgetting that in the US it has strong competition from the xbone, something the ps2 never had to worry about. the fact that the ps4 is selling so well mostly with cross gen games, and no real killer app tells me the market is only getting bigger.

the market is getting bigger, but it's not getting bigger for dedicated hardware. that market has shrunk considerably.

 

[TheSpaceBetween]

Very pleased at The Evil Within's performance.

 

[serversurfer]

i mean, that is the optimistic scenario. if it wasn't for pokemon last year, there would have been three years of decline in software sales from 2012 to now.

Eh? I thought that was just on handhelds? Like I said, I think we should be careful about lumping handhelds and consoles together. I'll agree that a lot of handheld-game spending has moved from "dedicated gaming hardware" to smartphones and tablets, but I don't see how that's an inherently bad thing in and of itself, and I'd argue that it has very little to do with console gaming specifically.

Since a Vita can't make phone calls, there's very little reason to buy and carry one, given that you need an iPhone anyway and it already plays games. Consoles don't really have much to do with that. People looking for a console-level gaming experience aren't going to sit in front of a TV and play with their iPhone. Now, maybe people don't care about having a console-level gaming experience anymore, but going on 20M PS4 sales at $400+ in just over a year would seem to indicate otherwise, I'd argue.

 

[Superman00]

entire segments of the industry shouldn't die off. if the cinematic voice-acting games of the ps1 era died off, it wouldn't mean the ps1 was a fad. it would mean the console manufacturers were unable to retain the audience they created. that is a fault with nintendo and microsoft to an extent. sony should also take some blame for not reaching out to this audience more meaningfully, but really it's sort of everyone's fault that the audience was treated like crap for five years. it's no wonder why it left for greener pastures.

I have to disagreed. The Wii was the definition of a fad. It wasn't sustainable. From my personal experience, there was nothing they could have done to keep a lot of thos audiences. They rarely buy games, they rarely plays the games. Even when they did, it was mostly in group setting. I.e parties, get together, and other events where there are groups of people. These audiences weren't gonna stay up to date with gaming and buy the latest console. Which is why the Wii plummet so badly while Xbone and PS4 is doing relatively well. Those audiences were never gonna transfer to the Wii U. They don't care about new games or better graphic.

 

[ninjablade]

entire segments of the industry shouldn't die off. if the cinematic voice-acting games of the ps1 era died off, it wouldn't mean the ps1 was a fad. it would mean the console manufacturers were unable to retain the audience they created. that is a fault with nintendo and microsoft to an extent. sony should also take some blame for not reaching out to this audience more meaningfully, but really it's sort of everyone's fault that the audience was treated like crap for five years. it's no wonder why it left for greener pastures.

motion controls haven't completely died off, but in the sense of being able to push consoles, and being super popular, those times are over, like the hula hoop fad, they still make them, it's just nobody is going crazy for them, and rushing out to buy them. microsoft really tried with kinect, they even sacrificed the specs and price, and look at where it got them.

 

[thewhitehawk]

Mobile is a factor, people who could potentially buy a home console, can now be satisfied with games on smartphones and tablets.

This is more harmful for handhelds, but home consoles suffer too.

You say consoles suffer, but the current home consoles, with the exception of the Wii U are breaking sales records and outselling the previous generations.

The Playstation 4 is outpacing the immensely successful Playstation 2, despite mobile users being more than they have ever been. With that in mind, I think your statement doesn't make a lot of sense and I strongly disagree with it.

 

[lightning2k3]

i mean, that is the optimistic scenario. if it wasn't for pokemon last year, there would have been three years of decline in software sales from 2012 to now.

A lot of software sales have moved over to digital, which is not tracked by NPD. Publishers have also been able to monetize the existing base much better with DLC and season passes. I don't think that overall console game related spending is in as dire straits as the numbers seem to show.

 

[StevieP]

I have to disagreed. The Wii was the definition of a fad. It wasn't sustainable. From my personal experience, there was nothing they could have done to keep a lot of thos audiences. They rarely buy games, they rarely plays the games. Even when they did, it was mostly in group setting. I.e parties, get together, and other events where there are groups of people. These audiences weren't gonna stay up to date with gaming and buy the latest console. Which is why the Wii plummet so badly while Xbone and PS4 is doing relatively well. Those audiences were never gonna transfer to the Wii U. They don't care about new games or better graphic.

Facts disagree with you. Software sold far more than the constant narrative of "well nana bought it and put it in their closet and didn't buy games". That simply isn't true in any respect.

You say consoles suffer, but the current home consoles, with the exception of the Wii U are breaking sales records and outselling the previous generations.

The Playstation 4 is outpacing the immensely successful Playstation 2, despite mobile users being more than they have ever been. With that in mind, I think your statement doesn't make a lot of sense and I strongly disagree with it.

The streams are going to cross.

 

[Superman00]

Facts disagree with you. Software sold far more than the constant narrative of "well nana bought it and put it in their closet and didn't buy games". That simply isn't true in any respect.



The streams are going to cross.

Did you read my previous comment? I didn't say all the people that bought the Wii were casual gamers. The one that most likely to keep buying the games moved on to the other consoles. Also this pertain to the U.S. as Japan console market just crumbles. Also take a look at the top selling games on the Wii and you would see a lot of them are parties/group games.

 

[Ty4on]

or wii u for that matter.

Ahem, Vita + PSP shipments were higher than WiiU shipments last quarter

Edit: The Wii wasn't a fad. It got a lot of the casuals who bought PS2s (Remember Singstar?). It also captured a lot of people who might have grown up with Nintendo, but weren't big enough fans to buy the Gamecube.

If it was a fad then the gaming industry should be kicking itself for those 100 million gamers who each brought 9 games for their console.

 

[1st Course]

A lot of software sales have moved over to digital, which is not tracked by NPD. Publishers have also been able to monetize the existing base much better with DLC and season passes. I don't think that overall console game related spending is in as dire straits as the numbers seem to show.

Indeed. Digital now very important for pubs. EA actually expects their digital revenue to overtake packaged this year, driven mostly by extra content (Ultimate Team/DLC)

 

[Ty4on]

Indeed. Digital now very important for pubs. EA actually expects their digital revenue to overtake packaged this year, driven mostly by extra content (Ultimate Team/DLC)

But that is mostly milking off of the existing userbase. I think digital sales are estimated to account for 1/3 of software sales which means they're up slightly. Let us all remember that 2013 was a horrid year for the industry with the best selling home console hovering around XB1 sales.

 

[serversurfer]

Facts disagree with you. Software sold far more than the constant narrative of "well nana bought it and put it in their closet and didn't buy games". That simply isn't true in any respect.

How exactly do they count the attach rate for the Wii? I probably know seven or eight people who had a Wii, plus the one they had at the nursing home my GF used to work at. Of all of those Wiis, only one person bought or played any games for it apart from Wii Sports; my former mother-in-law, a HUGE Zelda fan. She also bought a couple of games for the Wii she bought my step-son, but he mostly just played my old PS2 games when he couldn't score time on Dad's PS3. Most of the "gamers" seemed to be playing on XB360.

Was it all purchased for very young children? We always hear about how much software it moved, but then why did the big publishers abandon it, if it was moving tons of software with comparatively-low development costs? What games were sold on the Wii, specifically?

 

[StevieP]

How exactly do they count the attach rate for the Wii? I probably know seven or eight people who had a Wii, plus the one they had at the nursing home my GF used to work at. Of all of those Wiis, only one person bought or played any games for it apart from Wii Sports; my former mother-in-law, a HUGE Zelda fan. She also bought a couple of games for the Wii she bought my step-son, but he mostly just played my old PS2 games when he couldn't score time on Dad's PS3. Most of the "gamers" seemed to be playing on XB360.

Was it all purchased for very young children? We always hear about how much software it moved, but then why did the big publishers abandon it, if it was moving tons of software with comparatively-low development costs? What games were sold on the Wii, specifically?

The industry has never made distinctions as to what kind of software that is counted. No qualifiers apply. Just as they didn't when $10 shovelware was flying off the shelves for the PS1, PS2, the DS, or any other successful platform.

Wii = gaming console with 100m units sold. 9 games per person = attach rate. Those are the only relevant statistics when talking about sales.

 

[ninjablade]

How exactly do they count the attach rate for the Wii? I probably know seven or eight people who had a Wii, plus the one they had at the nursing home my GF used to work at. Of all of those Wiis, only one person bought or played any games for it apart from Wii Sports; my former mother-in-law, a HUGE Zelda fan. She also bought a couple of games for the Wii she bought my step-son, but he mostly just played my old PS2 games when he couldn't score time on Dad's PS3. Most of the "gamers" seemed to be playing on XB360.

Was it all purchased for very young children? We always hear about how much software it moved, but then why did the big publishers abandon it, if it was moving tons of software with comparatively-low development costs? What games were sold on the Wii, specifically?

Mostly Nintendo games and motion control party ganes, along with sonic and resident evil 4, those are the only games that sold particularly well.

 

[StevieP]

Mostly Nintendo games and motion control party ganes, along with sonic and resident evil 4, those are the only games that sold particularly well.

Out of the 900 million pieces of software sold, 300 million or so were from Nintendo iirc.

 

[Superman00]

The industry has never made distinctions as to what kind of software that is counted. No qualifiers apply. Just as they didn't when $10 shovelware was flying off the shelves for the PS1, PS2, the DS, or any other successful platform.

Wii = gaming console with 100m units sold. 9 games per person = attach rate. Those are the only relevant statistics when talking about sales.

Guess what? According to this wiki:
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_Wii_video_games

Wii fit, sports, party games account for more than 160 millions copies. Those are pretty much casual/parties games.

 

[Metallix87]

I meant the "hardcore" nintendo userbase (is there even one?) lol

I'm guessing there's around 15 million of those, maybe less, and they either already own a Wii U or will own one once either Smash or Zelda comes out.

 

[sörine]

Mostly Nintendo games and motion control party ganes, along with sonic and resident evil 4, those are the only games that sold particularly well.

There are over 100 Wii games that sold over 1m each. It's a bit more diverse than that.

And that's only retail, with Virtual Console and Wiiware who knows what we could be looking at for attach ratio.

 

[ninjablade]

The industry has never made distinctions as to what kind of software that is counted. No qualifiers apply. Just as they didn't when $10 shovelware was flying off the shelves for the PS1, PS2, the DS, or any other successful platform.

Wii = gaming console with 100m units sold. 9 games per person = attach rate. Those are the only relevant statistics when talking about sales.

Really? the industry clearly does make a distinction, other wise third party's would have made way more AAA games on the wii, instread of shovelware, they clearly look at what's selling and try to copy it to some extent.

PS4 = Fastest selling console ever so far. Those are the only relevant statistics when talking about sales.

 

[serversurfer]

The industry has never made distinctions as to what kind of software that is counted. No qualifiers apply. Just as they didn't when $10 shovelware was flying off the shelves for the PS1, PS2, the DS, or any other successful platform.

Wii = gaming console with 100m units sold. 9 games per person = attach rate. Those are the only relevant statistics when talking about sales.

Are they counting Wii Sports as like five games or whatever?

That's what I'm getting at. I know a lot of people with Wiis, but only one who bought software for it. I didn't really know anyone with very-young children at the time, so was that where all of the software went? Are they counting those $5 retro-ports they had available online? What games were selling? You say games are games so it doesn't matter, but apparently it mattered to the big pubs, who largely abandoned it. So if EA weren't making money on the Wii, who was? Who exactly is it that's now gonna go bankrupt with the "loss" of the Wii user base?