I think it's an odd assumption that people will directly operate from spite
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DOA5:LR Community Soft-Bans 100+ Costumes from Tournaments
- Thread starter mdsfx
- Start date
I think it's an odd assumption that people will directly operate from spite
Half the outfits aren't even fanservicy anyhow. They're silly things like police uniforms, christmas outfits, halloween outfits, etc. More than that, you don't have to buy any of them if you don't want to, just stick with the defaults. They're relatively tame (if sometimes nonsensical as with Marie Rose's default outfits)
They should ban all the topless outfits for the guys. As a female DOA player, I might get distracted mid fight and start oogling at Zack's chest or something!
I hope my sarcasm was obvious enough. >_>
Coffee Dog
Banned
But would a costume ban help? It's still DOA. It's still skeevy as shit. That's the series' gimmick and always has been.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
You're not really sounding great when you need to ban stuff just to be taken "seriously".
Banana Aeon
Member
Or you can be someone who enjoys the sexualization, and the gameplay of the game. Who would have guessed it?
BTW, rolling back won't increase membership. DoA5 is the best playing entry in the series. It has only gotten better over time, and the DoA scene is larger than it has ever been.
No one wants to go back to that hold infested meta known as DoA4.
The appearance of a game has effects far beyond some individual viewers and potential players. It spills over to fighting games in general, and even competitive games in general. If at any point the presentation causes people to go out of their way to avoid associating with the game or giving it publicity, the game and its competetive community will suffer for that. This is not just a matter of whether some invididuals themselves are willing to play the game or not.
For instance, will DOA be welcome at a larger e-sports event as an official, sanctioned tournament? How much visibility will it be given? Will it receive good time slots, will its finals be shown on the main stages and biggest streams of the event? Where I live, the highlights of a major LAN party were broadcasted on a national TV channel just this weekend. If DOA had been played at the event, and the top-8 matches looked more like softcore porn exhibition than a fighting game to a casual onlooker, I guarantee the game would have been stuck to a far-away corner of the event space and it wouldn't have received even an eyeblink of national TV time.
And what's the harm of a community-enforced soft ban on costumes at a major tournament? I'd think the serious players would only appreciate getting more visibility for themselves and their sponsors. Hard to see the manchildren who'd whine about this making top-8 or so where such a ban might actually be enforced on them.
The funny thing is the DOA community is probably the most welcoming to women of all the FGC's. Personally, I think the "banlist" is a good idea, but they may not have the right costumes to ban.
I really want to give this game a chance once it hits PC- hopefully the port is good.
Eolz
Member
This. The problem is that these are just some people deciding that on their own. Seriously, go read comments on FSD, and tell me pro players don't care.
Just saying "we discourage those costumes" at tournaments (which was sometimes already the case) would have done about the same thing without dividing the community after this horrible communication problem.
And that's a shame. People mocked Team Ninja's "I'm a fighter" slogan for Vanilla 5, but they were trying to make the game more serious.
It didn't work, and the game/costumes are back to what it is. And now, people that never played the game complain.
Nevermind.
Osu 16 Bit
Member
Please stop talking about the competitive MK/Injustice scene when you don't know what's going on. Nothing about this is true.
This is ridiculous. Lack of consistency in their own list hurts what they're trying to accomplish. All male revealing costumes are allowed and then the ninja themed outifts are banned too, where's their actual line here? Sexual themes has been the initial allure of this series since the first game and that hasn't changed one bit for every entry to this point. There has always been a decent and fun fighter underneath the sexual themes and ever since introducing reversals a pretty good one culminating in 5 being the best in my opinion. If these tourney officials don't like that that's fine but honestly even if this were successful it wouldn't change anything. Tecmo has no issue marketing and keeping the game design as it is and anyone getting into the franchise knows about its overtones upfront.
Not to mention nothing is going to change certain characters victory or defeat animations or intro animations that's for sure, of which they will appear sexual no matter what you do i.e. Honoka's doggy style esque position when defeated; Tina's on her knees defeat pose and numerous others. The game's appearance is what it is, and only Tecmo and their development team can ever really change that.
Not to mention nothing is going to change certain characters victory or defeat animations or intro animations that's for sure, of which they will appear sexual no matter what you do i.e. Honoka's doggy style esque position when defeated; Tina's on her knees defeat pose and numerous others. The game's appearance is what it is, and only Tecmo and their development team can ever really change that.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Uh did you miss out the idea why the dude in speedos is posted to begin with?
A lot of people assume or don't know that fighting game communities are usually tight knit and consensus can be reached reasonably very quickly.
BassForever
Member
Getting rid of the only reason I'd want to watch/play DoA isn't going to make me want to watch it more. DoA community should embrace the game's skeevy nature. Having the characters wear their default or no fanservice costumes isn't magically going to make the rest of the fgc care.
Banana Aeon
Member
Not only is the DoA FGC the most welcoming to female players, they also have a higher than the norm female player base. Might be because the FGC is super small, thus the mean spirited assholes that plauge other FGCs haven't invaded yet, but it's chill.
I hope the PC port is good too. This is my favorite 3d fighter of all time, and have no qualms to continue supporting it.
DR2K
Banned
I'm sure we can point to MKs blood shed as a no no as well. But our society in particular is ashamed of sex.
DOA5 is one of the most refined in depth fighting engines I've ever played, and should be tons more successful at the tournament level, but that stigma really latches on. Yeah Team Ninja panders to sex to sell, it's common business sense for them to market to what they know. They've also made a really good fighting game that no one is talking about or giving a fair chance. Tournament comminity especially is sick and tired of that stigma. They really want to show the tournament comminity what the game is REALLY about.
DOA5 is one of the most refined in depth fighting engines I've ever played, and should be tons more successful at the tournament level, but that stigma really latches on. Yeah Team Ninja panders to sex to sell, it's common business sense for them to market to what they know. They've also made a really good fighting game that no one is talking about or giving a fair chance. Tournament comminity especially is sick and tired of that stigma. They really want to show the tournament comminity what the game is REALLY about.
I thought that was framerate rather than distraction?
I find it odd that competitors would be distracted by an opponent's costume. Surely they'd betoo focused on the task at hand to suddenly go 'oh, boobies' like that dog from UP.
Kabuki Waq
Member
Well if they had to ban these i assume a significant amount of the community bought the costumes.
Good
I don't think they want Team Ninja to stop making these costumes. They just don't want that people immediately switch the live stream because they think this isn't a serious fighting game.
chaobreaker
Member
The dude is wearing legit fighting gear. How is that comparable to wearing string bikini with heels?
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
But this doesn't seem to be the right way of doing it, If anything it feels more inclusive.
That's like saying Nagare's swimwear is legit fighting gear.
And note that some images shown to be banned are actually tame in comparison.
Primethius
Banned
I don't see the problem with this if they want to get DOA more popular in terms of viewership.
I'll be the first one to admit that I don't watch DOA because of the costumes and its focus on "sexiness". The game's character and costume design basically screams to me that it's vying for the adolescent teen market. And I think this thread alone is enough to prove that people consider DOA a "tits" game first and foremost.
The soft-ban is clearly engaged in an effort (may not be the best effort) to change the perception of the game, and to prop up the gameplay mechanics. I'm all for that.
I'll be the first one to admit that I don't watch DOA because of the costumes and its focus on "sexiness". The game's character and costume design basically screams to me that it's vying for the adolescent teen market. And I think this thread alone is enough to prove that people consider DOA a "tits" game first and foremost.
The soft-ban is clearly engaged in an effort (may not be the best effort) to change the perception of the game, and to prop up the gameplay mechanics. I'm all for that.
Why should they care what costume you pick, competitive players care about gameplay first and foremost, banning costumes (not even really a ban, just a 'use this costume and we will diss you') effects none of that.
And is criticism not a thing? I've followed the SC community very closely for some, and have expressed interest in participating in the community when I get on my feet. They do not ban Ivy's costumes, or Sophitia's which are just as revealing as most of the costumes in DOA. That's not a silly statement in any shape or form, if you are a competitive player, you make the adjustments and bans based on the games balance issues and enforce rules that way. Why then are we banning outfits from the game?
I think they may be banned actually. Since they take up time which when added up could go towards another match.
Bear in mind this is second hand information so I could be talking bullshit.
Banana Aeon
Member
The problem with this is with those who believe that the game is tits first won't watch streams in the first place. The only way you can change the mind of such is to actually let them judge the game with a controller in their hand.
Besides, Team Ninja started marketing DoA5 as the game to get away from the sexualized nature of the series. And it failed. The stigma will never change.
While I can agree with you there, this soft ban has nothing to do with how combat appropriate their gear is. Why would the ninja themed outfits be banned then? This is all about how sexually revealing the outifts are which Bass' outift would fall into that category. Granted no male character has a sling banana hammock or is as overtly sexualized as the female characters, I won't try and make that argument.
For what it's worth, I specifically picked a DLC outfit for Bayman because it's more sexualized than his standard outfits. The same is true of Zack. His default outfit is a relatively standard wrestling outfit, where his DLC outfit in the same pack is really really tight.
Osu 16 Bit
Member
I swear for pool matches they didnt want fatalities. Might've been just a random thread at the time.
I get what you're saying. But when 50+ outfits for the girls is barely there clothing (to the point that Tecmo is all "PLZ2BNONUDIEMODSFORPCKTHX" on the PC version) and you have to scroll through each. and. every. outfit. to get to the one you want?
I'm not surprised that some in the community want to remove those outfits so the "image" of the series can possibly be changed. Do I think it's possible? No but do I want the ability to remove outfits (esp. outfits of DLC I don't own) from the list? Yes. Double-so if I'm going to show the game off. I'd remove Lisa/Tina/Christie's G-strings to show people the game initially then possibly show those outfits later depending on comfort level.
Banana Aeon
Member
I think people just don't do them.
Osu 16 Bit
Member
The guy streaming pools was saying it but I don't think it was ever a rule. People did them and nothing happened.
Then in the top 8 we were actively encouraged to do them by Mr. Wizard himself.
After that it was never brought up again. I've never been to a MK tournament where Fatalities were banned.
So many of us have been asking Team Ninja for a 'tournament' or 'non-lewd' costume filter for years now.
It doesn't just apply to tourneys, if you're playing while other people and maybe kids are around then it's also a good idea.
I love the sexy costumes as much as anyone, but there's a time when I want to have a fight between two sexy girls in bikinis on a beach and a time when I want something more serious, and the split is about 5%-95% in favour of the serious. At the moment you have more than a 33% chance of getting a sexy/fetishwear/silly costume when you press random with some characters, or when the computer is choosing an opponent, and that's not cool.
Random filters, please.
It doesn't just apply to tourneys, if you're playing while other people and maybe kids are around then it's also a good idea.
I love the sexy costumes as much as anyone, but there's a time when I want to have a fight between two sexy girls in bikinis on a beach and a time when I want something more serious, and the split is about 5%-95% in favour of the serious. At the moment you have more than a 33% chance of getting a sexy/fetishwear/silly costume when you press random with some characters, or when the computer is choosing an opponent, and that's not cool.
Random filters, please.
Banana Aeon
Member
I've been asking for this for so long.
synce
Member
Probably because it makes every character look the same... Along with all the other dumb fetish costumes. I think it's almost impossible to tell Kasumi and Phase 4 apart for the average person
SapientWolf
Trucker Sexologist
The stigma is that it's a shallow fighting game. The pandering doesn't help, but it's going to take more than a costume ban to reverse that perception.
Basically. How dumb.
If they're so adverse to the sexualization, then they should just not play the fucking game, at all.
Banana Aeon
Member
Well, for one, they don't share any costumes.
Also, all the ninja costumes are different colors. Also, they didn't ban any of the male ones. So baffling.
DR2K
Banned
I don't see it as exclusive to anyone. It's purely cosmetic. It's not as if a character/stage was banned.
It's a stigma perpetuated mostly by people that haven't spent more than 5 minutes with the entire series.
The soft ban isn't the end all answer to the problem, but it's a step in the right direction.
To me it just seems like they're making all these waves just to placate a bunch of people who might hypothetically be interested in the game, rather than to serve their existing community. But in practice, I believe most of those hypothetical people were never going to play the game in the first place and certainly not at a competitive level......the only thing they were ever going to do was look on was look on in shock, horror, and/or titillation at how Tecmo loaded the game up with cheesecake.
If the Sonic the Hedgehog community decided to ban all the furry fan art and erotic fan fiction, it wouldn't lead to millions of new Sonic players -- it would just mean a few less jokes at the expense of Sonic players. This is more like a self-conscious attempt to neuter a game DOA players are embarrassed to play.
Reminds them of their own at home roleplay?
EDIT: You were talking about the fighting mechanics, I misunderstood.
I'm pretty sure DOA has always been recognized as a mechanically competent fighter with a lot of sexualized fan service. When DOA2 came out on Dreamcast, I remember reading plenty about how well it stood up to Soulcalibur.
So you're right.
Probably the best post in the entire thread.
I don't think the comparison is accurate. Sonic games don't use furry fetish aesthetics as one of the main marketing points.
I'm all for presenting games in a much better light when sexualization is an after thought. I actually never approached DoA despite my love for fighting games because I thought they were exaggerating on that aspect. It's not like Bayonetta, where it plays a much bigger role in the complete experience.
CambriaRising
Member
Sssshhhh, we are trying to pretend that if a game is good, it can't have hugely problematic elements.
Coffee Dog
Banned
Tits is to DOA as jumping is to Mario. if someone said they hated jumping I wouldn't tell them to play mario. Same here.
The developers very clearly want DOA to be a sexy series that does sexy things. If they wanted it to be a serious fighting game taken seriously they would design the game that way. They don't.
The developers very clearly want DOA to be a sexy series that does sexy things. If they wanted it to be a serious fighting game taken seriously they would design the game that way. They don't.