Support NeoGAF

[BigTnaples]

Pre-rendered "gameplay" CG: The latest dishonest marketing trend.

That was not prerendered. It was real time on PC. They have just had to since "downgrade it".

That was 100% real, and there is even a video that breaks it down effect by effect.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SpPqXdzl7g

 

[0racle]

That was not prerendered. It was real time on PC. They have just had to since "downgrade it".

That was 100% real, and there is even a video that breaks it down effect by effect.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SpPqXdzl7g

Man.....this isnt getting any easier....so so sad

 

[Majukun]

found this

http://whatifgaming.com/developer-i...-from-2013-list-of-all-features-taken-out-why

When questioned as to why CD Projekt RED’s community managers have denied that “there will be no downgrade” and that there has not been one (as if this hardly a smart answer to anyone with a pair of eyes):

In game development you simply just don’t explain it like this. It isn’t something a developer ever wants to admit to because it would make us look bad even if it is plain as day. It would make us seem like we’re incapable and that next-gen is not as next-gen as people would think. The team would rather focus on the positives than admit to any faults, negatives, or that the final product is not the vision they intended politically speaking (because the game still looks good but not 2013 good). As for the PC version, it looks just like the console versions just with a higher resolution and a lower-form of HairWorks in effect.

already posted?

 

[lefantome]

That was not prerendered. It was real time on PC. They have just had to since "downgrade it".

That was 100% real, and there is even a video that breaks it down effect by effect.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SpPqXdzl7g

we have NEVER seen that lighting except for that scene which was present in the first gameplay trailer.

I don't even think it was in engine.
EDIT: ok it was using nvdia stuff that we have never seen out of that scene and that demostration.

 

[UrbanRats]

My biggest issue with this image is what you can gleen of the art style. That tunic, bru. Everything I've seen so far - especially Geralt's garb - is so mish-mashy and colourful for the sake of being colourful.

I like it, i hate how everything in medieval fiction (fantasy or historical) has to be brown or black leather, for some reason.

 

[lefantome]

found this

http://whatifgaming.com/developer-i...-from-2013-list-of-all-features-taken-out-why



already posted?

I call this fake.

It uses exactly all the nvidia features presented in this video and fails to metion all the other engine improvements since 2013.

 

[Fezan]

That was not prerendered. It was real time on PC. They have just had to since "downgrade it".

That was 100% real, and there is even a video that breaks it down effect by effect.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SpPqXdzl7g

Man seeing this video is making sad. I know console are not powerful but it was never an issue previous gen where we had game like bf3 and cysis 3. why is it a sudden issue for Witcher 3

 

[Jigolo]

we have NEVER seen that lighting except for that scene which was present in the first gameplay trailer.

I don't even think it was in engine.
EDIT: ok it was using nvdia stuff that we have never seen out of that scene and that demostration.

It was definitely in game. There was some pop in and other things that made sure the video wasn't cg. It's sad to see that its been downgraded since but nothing from the first trailer even seems to far fetched for PC and next gen consoles. Of course consoles would probably have worse aa and textures but everything definitely looked achievable

 

[mnannola]

I'm getting real tired of companies spending their efforts making amazing looking games on PC, and then removing even the option to add those effects back in, no matter how good your PC is. If you want to take stuff out of the console version so that it runs at an acceptable FPS that is fine by me, but let me flip some options around to add back the good stuff.

This is when developing for consoles as well as PC's takes it's toll. They find out in 2013 that the consoles won't be able to get close to running that version. They are tasked with either spending extra effort to get both a console acceptable version ready and a PC maxed out version ready, or just get a console version ready and use that on PC instead. Don't waste time on features that only some PC users can use, because time is better spent making the version everyone can play better.

Fuck that, get a few guys where their only job is to make sure all the effects shown in 2013 run on a top of the line PC. Make a game that will be shown off for years to come, Crysis style.

 

[Totobeni]

found this

http://whatifgaming.com/developer-i...-from-2013-list-of-all-features-taken-out-why



already posted?

yup posted before.

and sadly CDPR themselves already confirmed that PC/PS4/Xbox is the same (same quality assets for all platforms)

How will the PC ultra version hold up against consoles?

It will be possible to spot differences in, for example, Nvidia HairWorks, but those are very demanding graphically, so a strong PC will be needed. What I’m about to say might not be diplomatic. In the future you will be able to turn on the option of ubersampling, which, upon the release of The Witcher 2, was killing the game, and will probably do the same with this title, so we don’t want to unlock it for now. It makes the game look better, but the requirements are insane.

Are all the textures and models the same?

Yes, there is only one version, otherwise we wouldn’t be able to make the game in time. We would have to take it all apart, and then build it and test it on three different platforms at the

http://www.gamepressure.com/e.asp?ID=51

 

[Fuz]

found this

http://whatifgaming.com/developer-i...-from-2013-list-of-all-features-taken-out-why



already posted?

Consoles: ruining gaming since 1994.

 

[lefantome]

It was definitely in game. There was some pop in and other things that made sure the video wasn't cg. It's sad to see that its been downgraded since but nothing from the first trailer even seems to far fetched for PC and next gen consoles. Of course consoles would probably have worse aa and textures but everything definitely looked achievable

E3 2013 Screen

Gamescom 2013 Screen (same for the other 2013 screenshots)

I can't see that new renderer being used with the same results in any other material except for the nvdia effects video and the first seconds of the gameplay debut.

The 2014 renderer looks different.

 

[JAYSIMPLE]

That was not prerendered. It was real time on PC. They have just had to since "downgrade it".

That was 100% real, and there is even a video that breaks it down effect by effect.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SpPqXdzl7g

This is genuinely heart breaking. Are the consoles genuinely to blame for this? It's... I'm kind of gutted

 

[PLASTICA-MAN]

yup posted before.

and sadly CDPR themselves already confirmed that PC/PS4/Xbox is the same (same quality assets for all platforms)



http://www.gamepressure.com/e.asp?ID=51

Not only that but I noticed that HairWorks is explicitely noticeable only on animals (which look better on them) while Geralt's hair stays almost the same even when HairWorks is activated. Sadly it didn't get that much care compared to animal manes, tales and fur. Ok it isn't that bad since the default solution for his hair looks satisfying.

 

[UrbanRats]

Yeah. What I would really love to know is if these cases of downgrades like Watchdogs are due to actual development issues or if they are just a case of executives or developers not wanting different platforms to be different in fear of fanboy backlash. I guess what I'm asking is this: In the hypothetical case that Watchdogs on consoles looked like it does now and Watchdogs on (powerful) PCs looked like the reveal trailer, would owners of that game on console be upset? Would there be backlash against the developers for providing a 'crap' console version? If so, I may not agree with CD Projekt's decision but I certainly understand it.

Backlash from who? A bunch of X platform fanboys stirring up dirt for Y reason will always be there, but the public at large doesn't care.
I don't think regular guy John Doe playing GTAV on ps4 gives a shit about the improvements made on PC, hell he may be playing on 360 and not even care about the improvements made to the ps4 version.

The reason to do this as I see it, is to simply develop one version of the game, for development convenience, rounding down to the lowest common denominator.
And since consoles drive the AAA videogame business, that's what you gotta bend down to.
It's been like this since forever, but i think whoever thinks they downgrade a game not to make some random gamer unhappy about his or her platform, is being a bit delusional.

With that said, of course in interviews you'll go on about how every version is the same, because you've got NOTHING to gain from saying otherwise.
People will buy for the system they have.

 

[Nabbis]

Consoles: ruining gaming since 1994.

More like shitty pr. No one forced them to open that mouth of theirs and vastly overpromise.

 

[Jigolo]

This is genuinely heart breaking. Are the consoles genuinely to blame for this? It's... I'm kind of gutted

I doubt it but it seems to be the reason people are running with (PC fans will always blame consoles no matter what). This trailer is like the equivelant to the Watch Dogs 2012 E3 demo.

More like shitty pr. No one forced them to open that mouth of theirs and vastly overpromise.

yeah but don't you know a 750ti is out performing a PS4!! I mean they did make this trailer while expecting everyone to own a gtx 980 in 2015. They totally planned that.... except wait a minute, not even a 980 will make the Witcher 3 look like that.

 

[StevieP]

More like shitty pr. No one forced them to open that mouth of theirs and vastly overpromise.

So what you're saying is that almost everyone has "shitty pr"? (Ie ubisoft, capcom, ubisoft, naughty dog, ubisoft... Etc etc)

 

[BigTnaples]

Not only that but I noticed HairWorks only affects animals (which look better on them) while Geralt's hair stays almost the same even when HairWorks activated or not so on all versions you see almost same hair for Geralt. Ok it isn't that bad since the default solution for his hair looks satisfying.

Geralts hair is definitely not the same with hairworks on and off. It is completely different.

The default physics that CDPR implemented on consoles and PC's without hairworks is pretty damned nice though.

Found that other video with HW

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Frv80IjjsOw

Watch from around 33 minutes, and the user turns it off at around 35 minute mark.

 

[BatSu]

this posted ?

http://www.dsogaming.com/news/the-w...ning-uber-terrain-textures-lod-options-found/

 

[cripterion]

I think that website is playing with all the elements/info made available to us so far and made this fake interview.

Frankly, while most youtubers give us nice footage, none of them had the idea to ask about specs, graphical effects present in game, etc...? Hell most of them don't even seem to know on what settings or what machine it was played.
I thought Joe was all about asking the tough questions? Countless interviews with devs, one of my question to them would have been if they kept graphical effects as seen on the Nvidia trailer

Whelp, I guess I think I've gone enough about this in this topic, just waiting for Tuesday now.

 

[BigTnaples]

this posted ?

http://www.dsogaming.com/news/the-w...ning-uber-terrain-textures-lod-options-found/

lol. My man, you gotta stop linking stuff from the internet that was posted here on gaf, in this very thread.


Gaf>Internet>Gaf

 

[PLASTICA-MAN]

this posted ?

http://www.dsogaming.com/news/the-w...ning-uber-terrain-textures-lod-options-found/

Yes, in the previous page.

 

[Majukun]

this posted ?

http://www.dsogaming.com/news/the-w...ning-uber-terrain-textures-lod-options-found/

still we will have to wait till the games is out for someone to test this and see if it actually works and how good it works

 

[Szeth]

This is all so depressing.

Is Cyberpunk doomed to the same fate? Is cdprojekt red just another former PC developer that now has to cater to these under powered consoles? Or with the success of Witcher 3 can they actually build a PC version first and worry about consoles second? It's so obvious they built from consoles up and it cost the game dearly

 

[BatSu]

lol. My man, you gotta stop linking stuff from the internet that was posted here on gaf, in this very thread.


Gaf>Internet>Gaf

again ? ....


Sorry

 

[PLASTICA-MAN]

Geralts hair is definitely not the same with hairworks on and off. It is completely different.

The default physics that CDPR implemented on consoles and PC's without hairworks is pretty damned nice though.

Yes I noticed that and this is what I said. Default solution is nice too. It would have been better if they made an option to chooe between enabling HairWorks for Geralt and animals separately. I would rather keep default hair and enable HairWorks for animals to improve framerates.

 

[Nabbis]

So what you're saying is that almost everyone has "shitty pr"? (Ie ubisoft, capcom, ubisoft, naughty dog, ubisoft... Etc etc)

Indeed. And its sickening that gamers keep getting baited. Apathetic consumers have resulted in a status quo where getting fucked in the ass is normal.

 

[Ophiuchus]

this posted ?

http://www.dsogaming.com/news/the-w...ning-uber-terrain-textures-lod-options-found/

That is very informative.
So is 'uber' an exact equivalent to ultra? I mean the players that played in ultra mode should have seen that but it was never mentioned.

 

[Tovarisc]

Indeed. And its sickening that gamers keep getting baited. Apathetic consumers have resulted in a status quo where getting fucked in the ass is normal.

I wonder if there is any research made how early released game trailers, e.g. VGX2013 trailer for TW3, affects purchasing decisions of "casual gamers". Amount of people who see all trailers most likely is far smaller than amount of people who see later stuff as it's pushed in TV spots etc.

 

[Totobeni]

Consoles: ruining gaming since 1994.

I can't blame the consoles at all for this, this is all on CDPR. like in the gamepressure interview they are saying that even textures are the same between all the platform..I mean why? even something like EA (DA:I for an example) and Ubi games give PC version better and higher quality assets.

 

[EatChildren]

Sword of Destiny trailer lighting >>> 2013 screenshots. A lot of the 2013 media is flat as fuck. Where it excels is texture quality and foliage density, Nvidia effects trailer aside. Sword of Destiny trailer showed a massive improvement in lighting.

Anyway, this is what I was talking about, RE: config file tweaks. I've mentioned it a hundred times so I'll try to keep it brief, but explain what might be editable.

In TW2 foliage quality is handled by two variables: the engine, and the assets. The engine handles general draw distance, and thus scaled based on your config settings. LOD transitions unfortunately were baked into assets, meaning config tweaks didn't change LOD pop-in and the only way I could fix it was to go into the editor and tweak every asset individually.

TW3 seems to be quite similar. I suspect eliminating LOD pop-in on foliage wont be possible until the editor rolls around, then we can have a look. But general foliage draw distance might be editable.

FoliageDistanceScale= is the field, and it controls how far foliage is rendered if at the lowest LOD. In TW2 Ultra settings sat it at 1.0, scaling down. However the engine didn't cap it, so you could keep increasing it for real gains. See below.

If TW3 works similarly then this trick will increase detail over distance. The engine and middleware are weird, because of the LOD baked into assets and how it differs between assets. Note in the 1.0 show the low quality bushes render further than the low quality grass, because each asset has it's own distance variable. 4.0 irons it out, the bushes rendering further, and the low LOD grass also rendering far, filling in the gaps.

Going by shots and footage TW3 operates similar; LOD varies from asset to asset, leading to some assets rendering their low quality LOD further than others. In theory, this field should unify the two a bit, meaning distance shorelines wont just have low LOD trees, but fill the in between with low LOD grass and bushes too.

And it'll probably come at a significant performance cost too. But hey, let's see!

 

[tuxfool]

There's not going to be a graphics upgrade patch. Again, The Witcher 2 was gorgeous, but memory is rose tinted. When the Enhanced Edition was announced fans were clamouring for a DX11 patch that would fix the awful shadow dithering, 1m foliage pop-in, almost total absence of anisotropic filtering, middle ground AA like MSAA instead of having to chose between FXAA and SSAA, and maybe add in some bells and whistles like tessellation.

It got shit fuck all of any of this. Which is not a dig against CDPR, just reality that they didn't upgrade fuck in the engine and left most of the assets unchanged, instead preferring to add new content.

Seeing as they plan on using the same engine for Cyberpunk, they may opt to update the engine for DX12. Of course this doesn't necessarily mean the game will look better with it.

 

[Chilled_Eskim01]

I doubt it but it seems to be the reason people are running with (PC fans will always blame consoles no matter what). This trailer is like the equivelant to the Watch Dogs 2012 E3 demo.

You don't honestly believe this, do you? Of course the consoles are to be blamed for this downgrade. Mock those who play on PCs all you want, it's the most logical and economacal conclusion to come to. Instead of making three games for all the different systems, they make a single version that can run on the least powerful of the lot (consoles in this case) and then build off that to try and up the anty for more powerful machines in the time that's left over. It's not some conspiracy, it's just simple economics and business management, especially with the exorbitant expenses needed for AAA game development.

In 2013, CDPR may have had this grand design and desire for The Witcher 3, but found it sipmly wasn't doable across all three platforms. Is that so crazy to believe?

 

[PnCIa]

I sat back and just read the thread for the past days. What the hell is going on here?
Back when they showed the first trailer the consoles that were supposed to run the game werent even finished, let alone the APIs of those consoles.

They shot for the stars back then, beeing optimistic is not a bad thing. Then they realized that they may have to cut corners to get it to run on their target hardware. That is a normal part of the development process, especially when the first showing of the game happens 2 years before the release....and this is an open world game too, making it way more unpredictable when it comes to performance.

The game could look like it did back then for sure...but at 1080/30 on a 980 probably. The lod was insane, just look at the detail rendered in the distance. Look at the shadow lod. Some really dont get it how demanding some settings in games can be. The vegetation density they had back then was stupidly high, once you use transparency AA this would murder your framerate. Those who played Gothic 3 (a game with tons of dense vegetation) and used transparency AA know how much it can cut down framerate.
So just chill, they had to get this beast running somehow. The results look fantastic.

 

[tuxfool]

The reason to do this as I see it, is to simply develop one version of the game, for development convenience, rounding down to the lowest common denominator.
And since consoles drive the AAA videogame business, that's what you gotta bend down to.
It's been like this since forever, but i think whoever thinks they downgrade a game not to make some random gamer unhappy about his or her platform, is being a bit delusional.

This is sadly very much the truth. There is only so much scalability that can be allowed before one might as well be developing two separate games. This is especially true if you're not a 1000 team member ubisoft production.

 

[viveks86]

I'll be interested to see if FoliageDistanceScale= makes a difference. Uber used 1.0, but it wasn't capped and could be increased dramatically. It didn't change LOD scaling, but it did increase rendering distance of foliage assets as a whole, so you at least got the low quality LOD for grass and bushes further.

This is VERY good to know. Thanks!

 

[codhand]

This is all so depressing.

Is Cyberpunk doomed to the same fate? Is cdprojekt red just another former PC developer that now has to cater to these under powered consoles? Or with the success of Witcher 3 can they actually build a PC version first and worry about consoles second? It's so obvious they built from consoles up and it cost the game dearly

yeah, only one million copies sold in pre-order sales. CDPR on suicide watch.

 

[PLASTICA-MAN]

What if they release a later DX12 Enhanced and optimized version bringing all the missing gimped features? Is that much for a dreaming reality?

 

[BigTnaples]

EatChildren, is that change already present in your foliage mod? I am using your mod but I still get foliage popping up rather close to the camera in Flotsam. Would love to push back that pop in more. Can you point me in the direction of that line? I see that line under "Profiles" for High/medium/low etc. Is that where I make the change from 1.0 to 4.0?

 

[Darkstorne]

Sword of Destiny trailer lighting >>> 2013 screenshots. A lot of the 2013 media is flat as fuck. Where it excels is texture quality and foliage density, Nvidia effects trailer aside. Sword of Destiny trailer showed a massive improvement in lighting.

Anyway, this is what I was talking about, RE: config file tweaks. I've mentioned it a hundred times so I'll try to keep it brief, but explain what might be editable.

In TW2 foliage quality is handled by two variables: the engine, and the assets. The engine handles general draw distance, and thus scaled based on your config settings. LOD transitions unfortunately were baked into assets, meaning config tweaks didn't change LOD pop-in and the only way I could fix it was to go into the editor and tweak every asset individually.

TW3 seems to be quite similar. I suspect eliminating LOD pop-in on foliage wont be possible until the editor rolls around, then we can have a look. But general foliage draw distance might be editable.

FoliageDistanceScale= is the field, and it controls how far foliage is rendered if at the lowest LOD. In TW2 Ultra settings sat it at 1.0, scaling down. However the engine didn't cap it, so you could keep increasing it for real gains. See below.

If TW3 works similarly then this trick will increase detail over distance. The engine and middleware are weird, because of the LOD baked into assets and how it differs between assets. Note in the 1.0 show the low quality bushes render further than the low quality grass, because each asset has it's own distance variable. 4.0 irons it out, the bushes rendering further, and the low LOD grass also rendering far, filling in the gaps.

Going by shots and footage TW3 operates similar; LOD varies from asset to asset, leading to some assets rendering their low quality LOD further than others. In theory, this field should unify the two a bit, meaning distance shorelines wont just have low LOD trees, but fill the in between with low LOD grass and bushes too.

And it'll probably come at a significant performance cost too. But hey, let's see!

Thanks for this breakdown =)

It's odd that they'd hold uber settings back for when PCs can run them reliably. Crysis became legendary for having graphics settings that were beyond its time, which kept the game relevant for a heck of a long time, made it a gorgeous benchmark, and led to so much free PR from all the screenshots people took (while their game ran at 10fps =P)

"And it'll probably come at a significant performance cost too. But hey, let's see!"

I have no doubt you're right there! I just don't understand why that bothers CDPR. PC gamers are used to tweaking their graphics settings to meet their hardware setups and framerate preferences. If these "uber" settings crippled most modern gaming rigs, it's just going to make us more excited for new GPUs in the future while we happily play on medium, high, and ultra in the mean time.

 

[tuxfool]

This is all so depressing.

Is Cyberpunk doomed to the same fate? Is cdprojekt red just another former PC developer that now has to cater to these under powered consoles? Or with the success of Witcher 3 can they actually build a PC version first and worry about consoles second? It's so obvious they built from consoles up and it cost the game dearly

Yes. It is foolish to think that their budget is any different for Cyberpunk. This game seems to have completely worked them over. Judging by the reviews and pre orders, it probably paid off.

There is no AAA developer that is going to develop two separate games for PC and console.

 

[Szeth]

yeah, only one million copies sold in pre-order sales. CDPR on suicide watch.

No need to be so defensive. I mentioned the games success (which is great for them), and I think it was pretty clear I meant it cost the game graphically (which it did).

I just hope they don't have to compromise their vision again next time around

 

[Chilled_Eskim01]

yeah, only one million copies sold in pre-order sales. CDPR on suicide watch.

You know that's not what he said or meant. Szeth was simply stating that CDPR used to cater more towards the PC crowed with their big games, and now we're seeing them transition to more of a console design center. Sure, it makes sense, but it's a shame for those of us who wanted another benchmark like TW2 was when it first released.

 

[Majukun]

What if they release a later DX12 Enhanced and optimized version bringing all the missing gimped features? Is that much for a dreaming reality?

since they are in the industry to make money ,yes

at best they will re-release the game in a "definitive version"

 

[codhand]

Cater towards PC? They were a PC developer and vanilla Witcher ran like shit.

 

[tuxfool]

I can't blame the consoles at all for this, this is all on CDPR. like in the gamepressure interview they are saying that even textures are the same between all the platform..I mean why? even something like EA (DA:I for an example) and Ubi games give PC version better and higher quality assets.

Ubi and EA games employ absolutely massive studios or groups of studios to develop their games. The commonly quoted figure for AC:U is that 1000 people worked on that game. The number of developers that worked on the Witcher 3 is 250-300 (at most).

 

[Chilled_Eskim01]

Cater towards PC? They were a PC developer and vanilla Witcher ran like shit.

And it got patched. What's your point?

 

[PLASTICA-MAN]

Can't find the video this is from, but it was recent:

I watched the two videos having HairWorks enabled that you posted. None of those have the monster in that gif. Can someone please dig harder and find the video of that gif? The monster design looks good and HairWorks make him even better.

 

[rashbeep]

Sword of Destiny trailer lighting >>> 2013 screenshots. A lot of the 2013 media is flat as fuck. Where it excels is texture quality and foliage density, Nvidia effects trailer aside. Sword of Destiny trailer showed a massive improvement in lighting.

Thank you, I thought I was losing my mind seeing all these posts losing their shit over the 2013 build. Many of the shots looked like a souped up Witcher 2.