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Sony is Building a Hostage Crisis!!!!! (List of Games to Kickstarter)

P

Perfect Cha0s

Member
RexNovis said:
People need to take a step back and look at the parties involved with this. Then look at the purpose of kickstarter is as a platform. Now consider what kickstarter is being used for in this equation. Also consider what the literal job is for the parties involved. If you still can't see how this is a perversion and manipulation of crowd funding I don't know what else to tell you. This absolutely should not become a trend.

Leave kickstarter to the projects that actually need crowd funding in order to find development be it a target demo in order to secure a publisher or a full product. Crowd funding should not ever be a risk mitigation platform for publishers. If they can't make a strong enough argument to take the risk of publishing and funding a title themselves then so be it.

In the absence of such stop gaps, Inevitably publishers will endeavor to take more risk for greater possible reward. This stop gap just deincentivizes risk even further for publishers. Nobody wins in a world where publishers grow more and more timid of taking any risk whatsoever without some sort of assurance of moderate success. That's not how things should work.
Click to expand...
That's the exact opposite of what we've seen though. Publishers are already extremely timid of risk because it has become more and more expensive to develop games. The "greater possible reward" means nothing when failure can result in the loss of tens or hundreds of millions of dollars.
 
Y

Yjynx

Member
RexNovis said:
Yes because people seem incapable of seeing the bigger picture here and what a trend of this sort would actually mean. Granted that's a tall order when such a heavily anticipated title is tossed in the mix but as time marches forward it will become easier for me people to view the situation impartially for what it is and what it could mean for the future. Right now that unfortunately seems impossible for most to do.
Click to expand...

and on the other side of the bigger picture here:

-more game would be made
-more publisher willing to invest
-more studio will lives
-gamer get what they want

nowadays games development are expensive as fuck, extremely risky business. NO ONE - maybe only small amount of publisher willing to invest on sure selling IP.

so NONE OF YOU mister morally upright have think about it this way?
 
L

Loudninja

Member
Is there any game that you would like to see crowdfunded so it comes back?

Well, there are many old IPs that have not seen any new games. I can't name any specific ones. But this Shenmue campaign is very successful and also [Koji] Igarashi-san's Bloodstained campaign was very, very successful. And [it] proves that there are a lot of game creators in the past and [that] there's demand for their kind of games by the current consumers. So I hope that the developers in Japan, especially who are used to making console games ... see the success of Igarashi-san's and Suzuki-san's and get encouraged to do their own.
Click to expand...
http://www.engadget.com/2015/06/17/an-intimate-chat-with-sony-playstation-shuhei-yoshida/

Yesss this is what I want.
 
D

DidntKnowJack

Member
RexNovis said:
People need to take a step back and look at the parties involved with this. Then look at the purpose of kickstarter is as a platform. Now consider what kickstarter is being used for in this equation. Also consider what the literal job is for the parties involved. If you still can't see how this is a perversion and manipulation of crowd funding I don't know what else to tell you. This absolutely should not become a trend.

Leave kickstarter to the projects that actually need crowd funding in order to find development be it a target demo in order to secure a publisher or a full product. Crowd funding should not ever be a risk mitigation platform for publishers. If they can't make a strong enough argument to take the risk of publishing and funding a title themselves then so be it.

In the absence of such stop gaps, Inevitably publishers will endeavor to take more risk for greater possible reward. This stop gap just deincentivizes risk even further for publishers. Nobody wins in a world where publishers grow more and more timid of taking any risk whatsoever without some sort of assurance of moderate success. That's not how things should work.
Click to expand...
So if the nature of kickstarting doesn't fit in that little bubble you deem acceptable, it shouldn't happen. Can someone point out to me where this staunch and narrow definition of how it works is laid out? Because I see nothing on their site that deems this an unacceptable method of getting video games off the ground.

And while I appreciate your views on incentivizing or risk aversion, I don't agree what it at all. The days of publishers taking risks on these old titles we're talking about is over. This doesn't de-incentivize risk, it merely reduces it to a point where releasing these games is now possible.
 
B

BlackBuzzard

Banned
I think the interviewer misinterpreted something. I think they are just talking about #buildingthelist in general not a list of games Sony wants to crowd fund.
 
R

RexNovis

Banned
mordecaii83 said:
So you're basically saying let all IP's that would require more than a couple million dollars stay dead.

I want my AA games, my games that cost $10-20 million, even games that cost more than that. The only way those games work with Kickstarter is with additional funding on top of Kickstarter.

If Sony could fund $10 million for Chrono, $10 million for Suikoden, and $10 million for Silent Hills while getting the rest of the funding via Kickstarter, versus $30 million for just one of those games, why would I not want to get 3 games? (This is obviously an exaggerated example and I doubt Kickstarter would ever fund twice as much as a publisher, but the point is the same. Anything that allows more games to get made is a good thing.
Click to expand...

LMAO where did I say that? Nowhere in my post was that stated or implied. I was talking about AAA games that already have publisher attention/commitment. I don't even see how anyone could read that post and come away with "he thinks kickstarter shouldn't fund games."

And no I disagree any title that is being funded and published already should be fully funded and published by the parties involved. Crowd funding should not be a development subsidy for publishers that's a perversion of the platform.
 
K

KoopaTheCasual

Junior Member
prwxv3 said:
Sony are not crowd funding their own games they are helping third parties crowd fund games that can't get funding. Read the damn OP. Sony do not have unlimited budget and despite having crazy people working there that get crazy projects funded all the time that does not mean they can get anything funded. Using this method they can still help get projects funded.
Click to expand...
No, shhh! They're gonna make us Kickstart Uncharted 5! Don't you see?!
/s


The reaction to this is unbelievable, and I was one of the people, who were disappointed in Sony being coy with the Shenmue 3 details. I can't believe people are actually saying "I'd rather have nothing" than support this movement.

I think initiatives like this and SE's Collective are great steps to bring back IPs.
 
S

Steroyd

Member
Alphahawk said:
I hate when people get nitpicky about Kickstarter. It's wrong for a known actor to use it, it's wrong for a company to help foot the bill for a Kickstarter. By complaining you're only making these projects less likely to happen as opposed to more likely to happen. Shenmue 3 would of flat out not happened if it weren't for Sony. It wasn't even Sony seeing a demand it was the fact that Shenmue 3 is now no longer a financial risk for them.
Click to expand...

I think it still is a financial risk, $2 million is still a pathetic amount, plus Sony is going to advertise etc, but the fanbase that's been blue balled for over a decade made Sony confident that it will be money well spent.
 
P

prwxv3

Member
Steroyd said:
I think it still is a financial risk, $2 million is still a pathetic amount, plus Sony is going to advertise etc, but the fanbase that's been blue balled for over a decade made Sony confident that it will be money well spent.
Click to expand...
It's is defiantly still a large financial risk its just smaller then what it was before.
 
L

Littlefang

Member
Alphahawk said:
I hate when people get nitpicky about Kickstarter. It's wrong for a known actor to use it, it's wrong for a company to help foot the bill for a Kickstarter. By complaining you're only making these projects less likely to happen as opposed to more likely to happen. Shenmue 3 would of flat out not happened if it weren't for Sony. It wasn't even Sony seeing a demand it was the fact that Shenmue 3 is now no longer a financial risk for them.
Click to expand...

By a large developer showing interest in a project, it indicates that the project has other avenues to become funded without putting causing the consumer to take a large amount of the risk. Why should crowdfunding become a common source of funding for game development when there are other options? A platform like Kickstarter (in which their is no guarantee for a final product) should only be used in cases where there are no other options. By Sony publicizing and providing funding for these products, they are showing that a game or franchise has options beyond crowfunding. Kickstarter is good for developers that literally cannot get enough funding from other sources to create the game that they would like to. If Sony stands to provide the brunt of the funding into kickstarted games, then why should those games be kickstarted?
 
Z

Zen_Arcade

Banned
I said it in one of the other threads, but it's kind of a bummer that a company as large as Sony is willing to let other people help foot the bill instead of entirely assuming the risk themselves. But since I don't have to donate any money personally, I'm not going to get mad if other people want to put money towards these projects and are happy to do so.

Worst case scenario is that I don't put any money up but still eventually get to buy a new Parappa or something else cool like Sony funded it anyway. I can't really see any downside.
 
S

Stider

Member
If I could I would've made a thread about this kind of situation a while ago as I could see where KS could lead to.

thuway said:
Honestly this is a very slippery slope to go down. Shenmue 3 is one thing, but I hope we don't see the random IPs that probably could be financially viable on their own accord kickstarted because- "Why not?"

Anyway, Kojima "will" be a free agent sooner or later, looks like his project is about to get Kickstarted into the sun.
Click to expand...

Agreed, however this might be the only way we see some of the IP's that have (seemingly) been abandoned or have been changed to the dislike of fans of the series(Breath of Fire anyone?).

One of the biggest reasons I can see more publishers using KS for older IP's/niche titles is you aren't just relying on fan feedback, comments on forums, petitions etc. Using KS requires the fans to "put their money where their mouth is" as it were. This gives publishers a more, I would say, accurate assessment of an IP's viability today as it requires a commitment of interest(money) from the customer.

A prime example or where a requested IP/game style did less than(possibly?) expected is Formula Fusion. I have seen a lot of comments on gaming forums wishing Sony would make a new Wipeout game. Yet, the KS for this finished at just under £80,000, not enough to reach the Xbox One/PS4 stretch goal.

KS could even be used for newer games to judge whether it would be worth the cost of localisation. In the vast majority of cases this would be for games in Japan that people would like to see released in English, for example: Phantasy Star, Gundam(anime games in general really) etc. I mean, hell, with the way KS is set up with different pledge tiers, I could even see publishers using it as a new way to generate pre-orders(back Advanced Warfare 3 on KS to get exclusive backer-only skins(please no)) or as a way of doing custom special editons for games.

The last point I mentioned was at the extreme end of the spectrum for KS use, but considering current pre-order culture I do see it, whether through KS or not as a potential possibility.

Yes, KS can be used as a platform to judge the viability of binging back old IP's or game genres. The question is, where will it stop?
 
D

DidntKnowJack

Member
RexNovis said:
LMAO where did I say that? Nowhere in my post was that stated or implied. I was talking about AAA games that already have publisher attention/commitment. I don't even see how anyone could read that post and come away with "he thinks kickstarter shouldn't fund games."
Click to expand...
Well maybe we're on different pages or you've read something I missed, but I don't advocate the crowdsourcing of AAA games either. And that's really not the goal here. This is for old and discarded games no publisher is willing to develop or publish because they deem them too risky.
 
R

Rurunaki

Member
Most concern stems from the idea that publishers are going to use kickstarter to avoid funding their personal projects.

I see this more of a way for mid tier titles to be greenlit. Sony/MS/Nintendo will not stop pumping out their AAA titles like Halo and Uncharted as well as investing on new IPs like Scalebound and Horizon.

This type of kickstart publishing is looking towards obscure fan favorite titles that these publishers don't see any potential revenue in. If it takes a "scummy" practice like this to revive some of the classics like God Hand, then I'm all for it. Keep in mind that NOONE is making you back up the prohects and that this is all voluntary.

Jaded gamers feel as if Shenmue 3 will be picked up by a major publisher because of its cult value. Be realistic, in the age where mobile gaming is surging forth, games we grew up with are more or less dead or worse be relegated to a f2p model (i.e. Breath of Fire).
 
K

KoopaTheCasual

Junior Member
Yjynx said:
and on the other side of the bigger picture here:

-more game would be made
-more publisher willing to invest
-more studio will lives
-gamer get what they want

nowadays games development are expensive as fuck, extremely risky business. NO ONE - maybe only small amount of publisher willing to invest on sure selling IP.

so NONE OF YOU mister morally upright have think about it this way?
Click to expand...
Too many people will ignore this side of the argument. People on their moral "high horse" would rather see studios take risks, fail, and get shuttered, than actually help this industry stay creative, vibrant, and steer clear of a future where only safe sequels to Call of Duty 57 are made, due to high risk.
 
J

justsomeguy

Member
orthodoxy1095 said:
I don't see how these are necessarily equivalent, but maybe you can paint the picture. With the parity clause, as far as we know, that's about Xbox getting indies at the same time or earlier than PS. With this, this is about creating games that theoretically would have never otherwise seen the light of day.
Click to expand...

It was literally in the bit of the sentence before the bit you bolded: If it's "pr in exchange for exclusivity" or "not on xbox".

Emphasis on if.

And the reasoning was in my original post - ie devs signing over rights in exchange for ks publicity seems like a publisher trying to force a dev to me. Again emphasis on "if".

Read it in context of my earlier post about what I think would make this cool and what I think would be shady and explaining why I'd like more details before coming to a conclusion. By highlighting just that one bit it makes my post look like console warrior bs which I assure you is not my style or intention.
 
P

PdotMichael

Banned
RexNovis said:
Im pretty sure the goal of crowd funding solutions has been clear. From day one they've been a way to fund projects in need. Nowhere have I ever seen them aspire to be a marketing tool for massive multinational companies to mitigate risk.
Click to expand...


Sony helping third party with providing infrastructure, support and capital isn't against the "spirit of Kickstarter".

And the most successful Kickstarters have multinational companies behind them. Your view is naive at best.
 
C

Creaking

He touched the black heart of a mod
TheOhrenberger. said:
instead of helping to crowdfund them, why don't you just fund them yourself Sony?
Click to expand...

Might not be financially viable. A thousand folks could scream "we want -game from dead series-" and then only half actually buy it.

This method of Kickstarting allows for a more accurate assessment of what a game is worth to folks.
 
R

Rymuth

Member
Perfect Cha0s said:
That's the exact opposite of what we've seen though. Publishers are already extremely timid of risk because it has become more and more expensive to develop games. The "greater possible reward" means nothing when failure can result in the loss of tens or hundreds of millions of dollars.
Click to expand...
This.

Publishers have stopped taking risks ages ago
 
C

crimilde

Banned
nacimento said:
Kickstart Uncharted 5. Because why fund the whole game if you can get other people to fund a part?
Click to expand...

Lol
You obviously did not bother to read the interview or previous posts so here:

Is there any game that you would like to see crowdfunded so it comes back?

Well, there are many old IPs that have not seen any new games. I can't name any specific ones. But this Shenmue campaign is very successful and also [Koji] Igarashi-san's Bloodstained campaign was very, very successful. And [it] proves that there are a lot of game creators in the past and [that] there's demand for their kind of games by the current consumers. So I hope that the developers in Japan, especially who are used to making console games ... see the success of Igarashi-san's and Suzuki-san's and get encouraged to do their own.
Click to expand...
 
P

prwxv3

Member
TheOhrenberger. said:
instead of helping to crowdfund them, why don't you just fund them yourself Sony?
Click to expand...
This is a shitty argument. Sony don't have unlimited funds and they can't fund every game in need. But by helping some secs with kickstarter said they can still get the game funded and get another game for the ps4 library and if the kickstarter performed very well it might convince the accountants at Sony to pitch in some dough.
 
B

BlackRainbowFT

Member
This has basically become the equivalent of the P300 done by board games manufacturer GMT Games. (the game won't be published unless 300 people pre-order).

Although I'm all for "donating" to indies, knowing that the project might fail even after successful funding.
But when big companies are involved, this "gives us your money, with no guarantees you're ever going to get what you want" bothers me. Kickstarter should enforce them to keep their promises.

Other than that, if this is what we have to go through to make them realize that their market analysts don't know what gamers want... fine.
 
D

Deleted member 20920

Unconfirmed Member
HomerSimpson-Man said:
I don't think Sony would kickstart their own IPs as this clearly states it's third party relations cause otherwise, Sony...

black-dynamite-you-done-fucked-up-now.gif
Click to expand...

Yeah. It's quite obvious they're talking about third party cult titles that have been forgotten (by publishers) and not their own IPs.

Legend of Dragoon can die in a fire and I'll add oil to it :p

It's probably not an easy task anyways. We're talking about asking publishers to relinquish their IP rights (in cases of games where devs have left the company, like with Shenmue) or making large companies agree to use kickstarters. I really don't see companies like Konami or Bandai Namco willing to go for the kickstarter route.
 
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