Trans who are anti-Drag, are (hilariously) sexist. That's the way I see it.
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Drag queens banned from Pride event 'because they may offend transgender people'
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Trans who are anti-Drag, are (hilariously) sexist. That's the way I see it.
The LGBT community can be really vicious to itself, sometimes.
There are both straight and gay men who enjoy wearing both men and women's clothing and there's nothing disrespectful about it. Case in point: Eddie Izzard. He's very open about why he sometimes wears dresses: he enjoys it.
There are both straight and gay men who enjoy wearing both men and women's clothing and there's nothing disrespectful about it. Case in point: Eddie Izzard. He's very open about why he sometimes wears dresses: he enjoys it.
Back in the early days of the LGBT rights movement, drag queens and trans people were friendly with each other, there was mutual respect and support among the communities, many trans women started as drag queens and then transitioned, this hostility among drag queens and trans people is a recent development and is incredibly sad, both communities are misunderstood and need to support each other.
Erin S Kittens
Member
Gonna try this again for the new page. The misinformation in this thread is astounding, the discussion I'm seeing has nothing at all to do with what actually transpired.
MisterGrey3000
Member
As others have said the title is completely wrong and a bit inflammatory.
They're just not paying for drag acts. Drag queens, cis or trans, are still welcome to celebrate at what is a essentially a small non-commercial pride event.
No...what no..just no.
I'm honestly really mad at these statements right now.
While certain drag acts and specific drag queens can be both misogynistic and transmisogynistic (and it needs to be called out and explored), this is a complete and total misunderstanding of drag as both an art form and important outlet for gender expression.
Femininity does not belong to the female gender identity or dfab people.
There are plenty of gender-nonconforming feminine presenting/performing cis (and trans) queer boys who use drag as an outlet for expressing their femininity in a society which doesn't affirm or celebrate effeminacy in male identified or dmab individuals.
Dressing in drag doesn't inherently mock the feminine nor is it inherently misogynistic or transmisogynistic. It's completely absurd to make those statements, it's gender policing, and it also shows a large amount of ignorance on the part of the individuals making this claim.
They're just not paying for drag acts. Drag queens, cis or trans, are still welcome to celebrate at what is a essentially a small non-commercial pride event.
No...what no..just no.
I'm honestly really mad at these statements right now.
While certain drag acts and specific drag queens can be both misogynistic and transmisogynistic (and it needs to be called out and explored), this is a complete and total misunderstanding of drag as both an art form and important outlet for gender expression.
Femininity does not belong to the female gender identity or dfab people.
There are plenty of gender-nonconforming feminine presenting/performing cis (and trans) queer boys who use drag as an outlet for expressing their femininity in a society which doesn't affirm or celebrate effeminacy in male identified or dmab individuals.
Dressing in drag doesn't inherently mock the feminine nor is it inherently misogynistic or transmisogynistic. It's completely absurd to make those statements, it's gender policing, and it also shows a large amount of ignorance on the part of the individuals making this claim.
Sounds like they're picking up tips from the hard core conservative crowd.
Conservative: "Gay marriage is a mockery of traditional marriage."
Pride producer: "Hey, we can use that! Drag queens are a mockery of transgenders!"
Why be open and accepting when you can hate your way to the top?
Source?
The title is a bit misleading. They aren't banning drag people.
They are just not allowing drag performances up on stage
This makes sense, drag is a parody of gender. Nothing wrong with drag, but it does not relate to gender identity, a trans pride event doesnt seem like an appropriate time to feature drag performances.
This might also be coming off the heels of some friction between those communities, such as Rupaul, a cis-male, using slurs like tranny or shemale.
They are just not allowing drag performances up on stage
This makes sense, drag is a parody of gender. Nothing wrong with drag, but it does not relate to gender identity, a trans pride event doesnt seem like an appropriate time to feature drag performances.
This might also be coming off the heels of some friction between those communities, such as Rupaul, a cis-male, using slurs like tranny or shemale.
Hmm... I feel like something was lost in translation here. I apologize if what I said wasn't clear.
Someone said "I cant believe gay men would ever hate/have something against trans people" I assumed his reasoning was something akin to "they have similar struggles, how could they hate each other"
And my response was, to assume that similar struggles would mean no infighting is oversimplifying it.
So... yeah that's all i was saying.
How is this any better? "Hey, welcome to the Pride event. But please shut up and don't sing or be happy because fuck you."
Ummm, their post on their site is quoted in the OP.
They have done exactly what we in the thread are disappointed at.
Thread could be edited to say "Drag queen acts banned..." and you'll get the same response. A mod can change this, doesn't make it ANY less disgusting and the OP had their quote.
This guy just posted an opinion piece quoting the same text, that just argues semantics.
Erin S Kittens
Member
"We don't want to pay cisgender people to perform at our free-to-attend trans pride" is just fine. Are you suggesting that cisgender drag queens are entitled to be paid and given a platform at any pride event?
Not centering cis people at a trans event? That's ridiculous.
So here's the thing, I think all they've done is say they aren't hiring Drag acts or having any drag officially involved. They aren't saying Drag queens can't be there. The decision was as I understand it a vote among Trans and non binary people who feel drag is negatively affecting them. If we're forced to choose between the Trans community feeling welcome at the expense of the Drag communities right to be the centre of attention then that seems like a fair choice.
Drag isn't inherently transphobic or anything but there is a lot of transphobia in the modern drag community. I think if your main joke is 'hey look, isn't the juxtaposition between my bodies masculine characteristics and my feminine performance hilarious?'; then any audience that agrees is going to be an unpleasant place for a transwoman to be you know? I feel like we need to examine Drag and its role in the community and not yell 'hey remember stonewall though' at people who feel offended and marginalised. Drag runs the risk, as I see it, of becoming our Zwarte Piet; where we refuse to listen to people's genuine grievances because it's 'traditional' and 'just fun and not meant to offend anyone.'
Drag isn't inherently transphobic or anything but there is a lot of transphobia in the modern drag community. I think if your main joke is 'hey look, isn't the juxtaposition between my bodies masculine characteristics and my feminine performance hilarious?'; then any audience that agrees is going to be an unpleasant place for a transwoman to be you know? I feel like we need to examine Drag and its role in the community and not yell 'hey remember stonewall though' at people who feel offended and marginalised. Drag runs the risk, as I see it, of becoming our Zwarte Piet; where we refuse to listen to people's genuine grievances because it's 'traditional' and 'just fun and not meant to offend anyone.'
NullPointer
Member
Where are you getting this "trans pride" stuff from? They themselves said LGBTQ... community and are basically saying the Q part is offensive to the T, so fuck the Q because T comes before Q.
papercan55
Member
The show that was cancelled because disney didn't like corrupting young people about drinking special magic juice which makes you happy,stronger,faster and bounce around?
We cool just making sure we on the same page nothing wrong with that.
Erin S Kittens
Member
It's a free pride event that centers trans pride, because most other pride events don't. My city (7th largest in the US) had zero trans booths at Pride (though many trans orgs certainly wanted to participate), and the only group to bear a trans pride flag during the parade was an anti-fascist organization. Lots and lots of drag, tho.
Also, omg, are you suggesting the Q stands for Queens?
Muskieratboi
Member
Everyone knows Gruffy wears Grammi's dresses on weekends.
Oh boy that image of the gogo boys dancing in their undies is controversial in itself, many gay people loath it and cite it as reason to not attend pride events.
I actually used to think like that, but I realized how wrong I was, if this is how people want to express themselves I'm really in no position to tell them they shouldn't, and maybe I should organize and make a wing of prudish gays like me in the parade, no one will probably pay attention because it would be boring.but that is the idea of pride, to not be embarrassed about who you are.
Pride is a very interesting event, it used to be about having the guts to show yourself, which as an lgbt person is not easy even now, imagine 30 years ago. Now it's a big party.
Yeah, don't get me wrong. I didn't post the image as a rant or anything. I just posted it to illustrate how the gay pride parades usually look: Guys in their underwear, dressed as fairies or butterflies, partying, singing, screaming, dancing, etc.
I mean, that looks like a party to me, nothing serious at all. I was replying to the user saying that the gay pride event is supposed to be "serious", and "that would be the reason they are banning drag queens from performing".
meltingparappa
Member
RuPaul famously got into a spat recently because of a mini-challenge called "female" or "she-males", where queens had to guess the biologically born gender of a person based on closeup photos. The backlash caused Logo TV to pull a "You've Got She-mail" catchphrase from the show.
This continued when she went on Marc Meron's WTF podcast and defended the use of 'tranny.' The context partly because Ru is much older than she lets on, and has probably been hurled every insult on the planet including that and feels like she owns it enough to regard it as a term of empowerment when used at queens.
I can see where the potential disconnect and friction comes from in the larger LGBT context, but eeeeeeeeeeh I have an opinion but it's based on a lifetime without gender dysphoria so I'll defer to those with a very personal horse in this race.
TheSadRanger
Banned
Principate
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Isn't that history of the human race.
Oh boy that image of the gogo boys dancing in their undies is controversial in itself, many gay people loath it and cite it as reason to not attend pride events.
I actually used to think like that, but I realized how wrong I was, if this is how people want to express themselves I'm really in no position to tell them they shouldn't, and maybe I should organize and make a wing of prudish gays like me in the parade, no one will probably pay attention because it would be boring.
Pride is a very interesting event, it used to be about having the guts to show yourself, which as an lgbt person is not easy even now, imagine 30 years ago. Now it's a big party.
They are there, they call themselves Log Cabin Republicans
(I kid!) But seriously, you don't have to be in fancy-pants wear to be in the parade. I've been in a pride parade and I'm as fairly plain looking as you can get. And I wasn't wearing skimpy shit - I'm a big boy - aint most people wantin' to see my ass. Pride is for everyone, gay, transgender, straight ally, everyone.
That being said, there are some guys in short-shorts
and they make great eye-candy.
I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that this only applies to drag performers hired by the event itself. The official comment on this matter calls it a "policy on having no drag performers" and the Facebook page refers to it as a "blanket ban of drag performers".
There's a difference between declining to invite drag acts to perform and banning drag queens. This is an event specifically for Trans Pride, they are just taking the focus off cis men by declining to feature an art form which is dominated by them, and has nothing to do with trans issues, and which makes some trans people uncomfortable.
What it is, is a Pride event that is, as you are saying, excluding drag queens. And the agency behind it basically says that some find drag offensive and are basically agreeing that it is offensive.
How about telling the trans community to accept instead? After all, it is Pride right?
No matter how much you try to explain their reasoning for excluding drag queens, it's not accepting. And that is what is bullshit. If you don't think it is bullshit, that's fine. But were not uninformed by being upset at this decision.
Well, then those trans people should be a little more progressive and accepting. They have been demanding respect and acceptance for a long time now. The least they can do is to be accepting of others and let go of the dragphobia.
Erin S Kittens
Member
Y'all are ignorant. Not paying one group to perform at a free event isn't "exclusion", it's just not giving cisgender drag queens special privileges. It's literally an entitlement issue. Furthermore, they've taken the step of agreeing to hire drag queens who are trans at this event. If you have a problem with this, it's likely that you're either unaware of the oppression dynamics that trans people face from society or you just don't care.
There's something interesting there, the challenge was supposed to be identifying women or drag queens, when the show used the term "shemale" it was meant to be about drag queens, not transgendered women. But both groups are mixed and those words are used as slurs against both groups, so a sizeable portion of transgendered people obviously felt offended. The thing is that most drag queens have appropriated those slurs and have all the right to do so, so they don't see it as offensive, because for them they are being playful, for them is black people calling other black people "nigga".
The problem though, is that quote:
Erin S Kittens
Member
Hey, I've been to drag performances. And sure enough, a majority of the performers incorporated vocal transmisogyny into their acts. There's a reason people feel this way.
No what I understand is that you don't feel drag queens should share the call for acceptance as trans people. If this were a trans event, then there would be no need for even say that are banning drag queens.
Whatever reason, they are condoning people feeling discomfort to see people in drag. Be they trans or not, people who are offended looking at drag have no right to ask for equality.
So T's feelings comes before Q's huh. I'm not saying that I don't understand, but this is not the step in the right direction at all.
But you don't undeeeeerstaaand man, Drag is an ancient pride tradition and has a right to be everywhere all the time. It's so hypocritical that Trans people want to feel comfortable and not marginalised at pride, omg. /s
That may very well be. But you were confused why people are upset. And that statement is more of a reason than not getting payed to perform.
Erin S Kittens
Member
Drag culture has a rich history of transmisogyny. At my local Pride, they always pay drag queens to perform, and they always trot out their anti-transgender bullshit. Not all drag performers are that way, but it's hardly shocking that many would feel it's an issue. They aren't preventing drag performers from attending the event--they're not addressing any discomfort one might feel "to see people in drag". They're simply not hiring cisgender drag performers, who are often transmisogynstic, at an event that's centering trans people as a response to most Prides erasing trans existence.
I'm not confused as to why people are upset. People are upset because entitled people have been spinning this story as "banning drag queens", promoting misinformation and trying to cause actual harm to the event.
The issue here is that the event is supposed to be about PRIDE. As in "I'm PROUD to be who I am. I'm proud to be gay/lesbian/trans".
If a bunch of guys in drag makes you feel unconfortable about yourself and your preferences.... Then just how "proud" you really are? Not every proud, I would think.
hobblygobbly
Member
I personally love dragon queens. I someday hope to get to be a dragon king, but I think I might have missed that by now
Woops lol, fixed.
DragonSworne
Banned
I wish the organizers of this event would realize that just because you are transgender doesn't automatically make you progressive or for gender equality.
Do the right thing and ignore those who feel uncomfortable by drag.
Do the right thing and ignore those who feel uncomfortable by drag.
cyberheater
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I can't put my finger on it but something about this statement feels off. Someone who is male but self identifies as female is uncomfortable about another male who dresses up as female.
Nope. It's too nuanced for me. I just don't get it.
They are there, they call themselves Log Cabin Republicans
Oh I've been to many prides, what I meant was actually participating in the parade forming a section of nerdy gays or something like theres a pflag section or lesbians in motorcycle sections, not just staying on the sides watching it.
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