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Street Fighter V Roster Discussion |Thread 2| Deal with it & place your hope for DLC

Galdelico

Member
If this is official art I'll be annoyed. I dislike when official art shows a bunch of character designs that look awesome but will probably never show up as proper characters in their own right. Like when Naruto had those color pages with all the tailed beasts' hosts when we knew all of them were already dead.
They better pop up as Bowser Jr.-esque modelswaps for Mika or something at the very least. I never thought I'd be seriously wishing for a Slam Masters 3, but here I am.

Also, more doll teasing. Forever hoping Santamu becomes a proper character in 5, like Decapre.
Well, it looks like the same artist who did this stuff here: http://67.227.255.239/forum/showpost.php?p=172324910&postcount=664.
Also, there is a movie poster in Dhalsim's stage that belongs to the same hand: http://www.fightersgeneration.com/nz6/game/sf5/dhalsim/sf5-dhalsim-screenshot7.jpg ('The Eternal Ganga', on the left).

I'm pretty sure it's this (quite awesome, imo) person here - http://kit-kit-kit.deviantart.com/ - even though he kinda joked about the nickname, when I asked him if my guess was good (he said the art was done by someone by the name of 'Kiki', whilst he was just 'Kit'). :)
 

nded

Member
The default costumes for Sarah, Jeffrey, Wolf, Kage, Shun Di and Dural look virtually (heh) identical in every VF game. AM2 confirmed for inexcusable lazy devs.
 
Being iconic isn't an excuse for not having a redesign.

Even Cloud got redesigned in Advent Children. If anything, the character is iconic, not the outfit. If the character is iconic, then so long as the new design is good, the new design becomes iconic as well.

We've already seen this with Street Fighter Alpha.
 
To each their own.

To me Kyo went from an interesting design to some asshole kid thinking he looks cool in a leather jacket.

Wha. Modern Kyo looks like a boss IMO.

Also agreeing with the lady saying "why can't they change Chun's outfit". I mean, the Alpha one is better anyway, so clearly changing it doesn't automatically mean it will be worse. Same with Ryu, they're so afraid to change ANYTHING on Ryu and it's dumb. They won't even give him back his Joudan-Geri from 3S and they actually put that one in.
 

AgeEighty

Member
Yeah, but she's no where near as iconic as Chun Li. I wouldn't mind a different design costume, but I certainly understand why she has the same one.

I would argue that a character who is "iconic", like Chun Li, is actually better able to retain her popularity while having her look evolve. As long as they remain spiritually true to the character, people will still know her by sight and she'll be just as popular.

Being an icon doesn't mean staying 100% the same for decades.
 
To be clear, I'm not against redesigns. It's the assertion that Chun-li's design is terrible and dated and needs to be changed while posting up examples of 80s and 90s outfits that break the base concepts of the character design that I find ridiculous. Since Chun-li's outfit is based on traditional garb, it doesn't really get effected by the passage of time like say Duck King
C73hq4A.jpg

Chun-li doesn't need a redesign and there are good reasons for leaving her default as is.
 
I think you're taking the examples of Yes, Madam or whatever too much to heart. They were just ideas I threw out, not actual concrete ideas for an actual redesign. I don't literally think Chun Li should dress like she in an 80's movie. But at the very least, change it up. It can still be her iconic blue, just have her wear something different.
 

kirblar

Member
Although I agree with you, the reaction to Ken's new re-design (the thread here on GAF is a good example) was really 60-40 with most people hating it (though a lot have warmed up to it now, I guess) and shit like what was said back then is what makes Capcom refrain from evolving character designs. The complete redesign of Ken is a very rare exception and I'm honestly shocked that they changed him. Me loving the redesign makes it even better tbh.
The issue with Ken is his hair. His Under Armour-inspired clothes look is fantastic and is in line with the character in a way that still reads as "Ken".
 

nded

Member
Personally I just find it really annoying when people call designers and developers dumb and lazy for not constantly changing things for novelty's sake.
 
I would argue that a character who is "iconic", like Chun Li, is actually better able to retain her popularity while having her look evolve. As long as they remain spiritually true to the character, people will still know her by sight and she'll be just as popular.

Being an icon doesn't mean staying 100% the same for decades.

I would say her bun is part of her iconic design so if you wanted her to remain almost as identifiable as before while giving her a new costume, she would need to keep the bun. We can't look at this from the lens of a Street Fighter fan. The average person who grew up on Street Fighter 2 casually, but hasn't played in a long time won't instantly recognize Chun Li if she didn't have the same outfit or the bun.
 
It was rude. I get that. It was the wrong thing to say. But it feels that way because of how some fans react to it. So maybe it's not dumb or lazy and they just don't wanna deal with the reaction. I dunno.

But I don't think it's really merely novelty. In the case of Ryu especially, he's a lot more sexualized and as said in the male sexualization thread, I think that kind of representation of male sexuality matters. Especially if you're going to have Cammy not wearing pants for the hundredth time in 20 years.
 

AgeEighty

Member
I would say her bun is part of her iconic design so if you wanted her to remain almost as identifiable as before while giving her a new costume, she would need to keep the bun. We can't look at this from the lens of a Street Fighter fan. The average person who grew up on Street Fighter 2 casually, but hasn't played in a long time won't instantly recognize Chun Li if she didn't have the same outfit or the bun.

I don't think that's true, and I also don't think "instant recognition" is all that important. The name, the overall look and the moves are plenty for even casual fans.
 

Village

Member
Personally I just find it really annoying when people call designers and developers dumb and lazy for not constantly changing things for novelty's sake.

While insulting designers might be a bit much, I have no issue with people wanting change. I don't see how thats bad at all, like in any way, odds are you would get the old costume anyway.
 
I don't think that's true, and I also don't think "instant recognition" is all that important. The name, the overall look and the moves are plenty for even casual fans.

I disagree. Instant recognition is obviously why they keep Chun Li and Ryu's default the same. It's important for Capcom.
 

nded

Member
While insulting designers might be a bit much, I have no issue with people wanting change. I don't see how thats bad at all, like in any way, odds are you would get the old costume anyway.

There's nothing inherently bad about change. Nothing inherently good about it either.
 

Village

Member
As long as the alternate costumes in SFV don't suck like SF4's then I really don't care about redesigning characters.

But a lot of 4's costumes were super rad though

There's nothing inherently bad about change. Nothing inherently good about it either.

Then why do anything if you are going to respond to it with cosmic nothing. Why explore anything ever or try to do anything ever with you life ever. No life's just meaningless might as well sit on my ass and do nothing.
 
I don't think that's true, and I also don't think "instant recognition" is all that important. The name, the overall look and the moves are plenty for even casual fans.
If Chun-li or Ryu are in a Street Fighter game they'd best be recognizable in a poster from across the room.
 

Village

Member
There were a few that I thought were really cool but there were just so many that either sucked, were almost good but had something that ruined it or were just 'why would you do that?'.

i think most of them are pretty good. Some should have just been their costume. And some like vega I hope becomes their new costume. Like two of cody's.
 

Sixfortyfive

He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
Of all characters, you're asking this of Chun?

A better axe to grind would be Sakura the perpetual schoolgirl.
 

Uzzy

Member
『Inaba Resident』;186994178 said:
Answered your own question.
The default is just something you don't change for her.
However, I would also like to see Chun in her Alpha costume more. Or a police outfit or something as an alt

18rie1so98gh5jpg.jpg

I'd pay damn good money to have this as an alt.
 

nded

Member
Then why do anything if you are going to respond to it with cosmic nothing. Why explore anything ever or try to do anything ever with you life ever. No life's just meaningless might as well sit on my ass and do nothing.

You seem pretty worked up about this. I'm not saying change is bad, just that change for its own sake isn't the best approach. I think the changes for the characters that did get obvious redesigns are great because they take what came before into account and make sense for the character. Most characters that didn't change much also have pretty good reasons for that being the case: Ryu probably doesn't have much of a wardrobe, a Zangief redesign would probably involve more clothes which is counter to his circus strong man look and R. Mika's job pretty much necessitates a consistent recognizable gimmick. Chun-Li is more debatable since there's not much reasoning to her costume other than I guess she just likes that dress; I'm perfectly willing to accept that it's mostly a business decision and that's fine, to be honest.
 
Of all characters, you're asking this of Chun?

A better axe to grind would be Sakura the perpetual schoolgirl.

Don't get me started with that shit. I had hope but now Karin has the same design as well and I grumbled very loudly.

I'm on Chun now only because Sakura hasn't been revealed, but trust me when I say I care more about Sakura in this regard than Chun. I'm just talking in general. Chun is just a symptom.
 

AgeEighty

Member
If Chun-li or Ryu are in a Street Fighter game they'd best be recognizable in a poster from across the room.

I can't think of a single alternate look for any of these characters seen to date that renders them unrecognizable. Every single alt costume we've seen is at once classically that character while at the same time giving them a new spin. Even Chun in her black dress retains that signature silhouette and stance. Hard to imagine those legs in profile belonging any other character.
 

Village

Member
You seem pretty worked up about this. I'm not saying change is bad, just that change for its own sake isn't the best approach. t.
They why do anything

Changing things to see what happens, is literally the entire premise of artistic exploration, and exploration in general . There doesn't need to be a reason, sometimes all you need is an idea, and that's justification enough.Now, whether that change is good or bad, that's another argument.
 

nded

Member
They why do anything

Changing things to see what happens, is literally the entire premise of artistic exploration, and exploration in general . There doesn't need to be a reason, sometimes all you need is an idea, and that's justification enough.

Changing things to see what happens is pretty much what Capcom does during their initial design phase if all the development sketches for the SF games are any indication. They're not operating under complete artistic freedom though, so the final designs are, perhaps unfortunately, constrained by what they feel will be financially beneficial for the game as a mass market product.
 
KARIN_thumb.jpg


Karin_pt.png


Karin actually got considerably redesigned.

While I personally would have loved to see Ryu and Chun completely redesigned, I can understand why they didn't change them. Refusing to change classic costumes comes with a price. Changing up classic outfits also comes with a price.

It's basically Capcom-style vs NRS-style.

NRS gives zero f*cks. They will take their poster boy and kill him off on a whim. They will turn him into a zombie. They'll turn him into a bad guy. They'll change his clothes non stop. The benefit of this is that it's kind of exciting and unpredictable. The cost is that your characters have less weight. They are "cheapened", in some regards. They don't feel as human.

Capcom maybe gives too many f*cks. The legacies of Ryu, Chun, and their entire cast are VERY precious to them. Iconic status is not something easy to achieve. And, yes, the cost is a sense of boredom and predictability. Ryu is Ryu. You can predict what he's going to do in almost any circumstance. However, the benefit is strong, consistent character design. Characters with weight who, like real people, are very difficult to change.

To be honest, I feel like SF5 is the closest to NRS-style that SF has ever been. Yes, Ryu, Chun, and Gief are unchanged...but I think they're like a buffer to ease us into the Birdies, the Nashes, The Vegas, the Bisons, The Dhalsims. Everyone else has been spruced up more than any other SF game. I feel like the design team is being a lot more adventurous and "not-lazy" than we're giving them credit for. I wouldn't be surprised if Ken's redesign started fights within the design team, lol.
 

Village

Member
Changing things to see what happens is pretty much what Capcom does during their initial design phase if all the development sketches for the SF games are any indication. They're not operating under complete artistic freedom though, so the final designs are, perhaps unfortunately, constrained by what they feel will be financially beneficial for the game as a mass market product.

You know what, thats fiar. Sorry If I sounded mad earlier.

But that is fair.
 
I think Ryu and Chun should stay like this. I don't mind, and honestly they nailed everyone else. Bison, Ken, Vega and Dhalsim all look great. We know Ken got his classic Alpha design as an alt as well for anyone that prefers that, and I imagine everyone else will too.

No idea why Cammy and Zangief look the same as always though but whatever.
 
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