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[_PsiFire_]

But even then, the lack of typical face buttons would be concerning to a good number of people.

Well, be concerned when something physical is shown because what they show in there patents are always way off from reality.

For all we know, there could be 4 face buttons and an analog stick like we're all accustomed to on th right side and an analog and d-pad o the left.

Patents are used to get your idea across without showing off the actual product.

Nintendos idea was a screen on the entirety of the controller. With that you could do cool things around an analog stick.

 

[Neoxon]

It would alienate the vast majority of people who spend a lot of money on software and hardware specifically to play video games, without actually appealing to anyone else who plays games on a phone/tablet

It's lose lose

Unless you want to see Nintendo go third party

That being said, if we had the usual layout on top of this free-form screen, it would be an easy way of keeping the GamePad's features without sacrificing a slimmer form factor for the controller. It'd also offer a solution for the NX Console to line up with the NX Handheld, assuming that the NX Handheld uses a touch screen.

Well, be concerned when something physical is shown because what they show in there patents are always way off from reality.

For all we know, there could be 4 face buttons and an analog sticks like we're all accustomed to on th right side and an analog and d-pad o the left.

Patents are used to get your idea across without showing off the actual product.

And I'm aware of that, as shown in previous posts. I just hope that this remains the case if Nintendo goes through with this idea.

 

[Agent Unknown]

Patent is saying what the screen can do and how it could be utilized. There are also screens that The_Lump posted a page or two back from the patent showing that the screen could even be cut differently and into other shapes. We really don't know what the end product will look like and can only really speculate with other patents like the scroll wheel patent etc.

I honestly don't believe that Nintendo will get rid of buttons with everything they've talked about when it comes to buttons and the importance of pressing a button though.

Kind of what I figured, thanks for clarifying. I would hope they wouldn't get rid of face buttons based on what they have said before and allowing part of the viewing field to be obscured would be awful and pointless use of resources. Even if it has the option to resize the aspect ration to 16:9, using an oval or any non-widescreen display seems kind iof shallow and pointless. My big concern with this patent is after the commercial failure of the Gamepad, Nintendo may be overthinking things with casuals yet again and still chasing the dragon. Yes, Nintendo, you failed to make the Gamepad attractive in the sense of being a faux tablet, doesn't mean that you're now obligated to compensate for that and make another possibly futile attempt to briefly grab tablet users' attention with a flashy, exotic display.

 

[UnemployedVillain]

They thought the gamepad was a good idea, and there is a chance they think the abomination in the OP is as well

So maybe not

The gamepad was/is a good idea. Maybe not what most people wanted (apparently looking down and holding a controller that's slightly heavier than normal is too much for some people), but they've shown through games it works well. It's mainly a console variant on the 2 screen gameplay they started with the DS

 

[Sou Da]

What if https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJFwHuCs3Yw?

Inflatable touch screen buttons seem like they would work well for a controller.

 

[Spyder_Monkey]

Back in my day people were proclaiming Nintendo's death when their new console was announced. Now everybody is saying that Nintendo is doomed based on a single patent. Is that what the cool kids are doing nowadays.

 

[Galava]

What if https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJFwHuCs3Yw?

Inflatable touch screen buttons seem like they would work well.

Don't think so, but could be very interesting to see...

 

[balohna]

touch is the thing I absolutely hated about the vita and all mobile games, sigh

I guess the NX is gonna be a small form factor device with a wireless touchpad controller that probably can roam and download games to itself and play detached, like a 3DS. So for one price you get a home console (TV) and a portable device (controller) and mix and match as you please.

Not super surprising but not sure something the market really wants, and not sure something third parties are going to do anything with.

If its 100% BC with Wii U and 3DS then that would be cool though, not sure how it would translate either systems unique aspects though. gamepad isn't too hard, but dual screens?

My guess:

Multiple form-factors for the handheld/controller at launch.

The handheld is the "main" unit.

An optional console-like device is used for outputting to a TV, adding some horsepower (local cloud) and facilitating local multiplayer with more traditional controls. Or as a way to put down the handheld and play on a TV with a traditional controller (aka GAF Style™).

 

[_PsiFire_]

Then you lose the option of pressing multiple face buttons at once.

Pressing multiple face buttons at once, how do you lose the outcome that provides...you don't need to press two at once when you have 4 other options available to you. Same amount of possible inputs.

 

[oni-link]

The gamepad was/is a good idea. Maybe not what most people wanted (apparently looking down and holding a controller that's slightly heavier than normal is too much for some people), but they've shown through games it works well. It's mainly a console variant on the 2 screen gameplay they started with the DS

It works well, but not well enough to keep the system at a price point most people feel is acceptable, and no one is going to feel like paying 33% more than they want to is a fair price to pay for minor conveniences like a map on a second screen, more so when the screen offers as many annoying gimmicks as it does nice shortcuts

Off play TV is its best use, and when you do that you lose your ability to use a 2nd screen anyway

A system launching with the controller in the OP as it's main input device will be very lucky to reach Wii U numbers in sales over it's lifetime

 

[Neoxon]

Pressing multiple face buttons at once, how do you lose the outcome that provides...you don't need to press two at once when you have 4 other options available to you. Same amount of possible inputs.

You can't press 3 or 4 buttons at once, which would be bad news for fighting games.

 

[GDGF]

What if https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJFwHuCs3Yw?

Inflatable touch screen buttons seem like they would work well for a controller.

That would be so awesome.

I wouldn't expect Nintendo to use it, but they should.

 

[ElfArmy177]

Meh, not for me. Sorry Nintendo, traditional controls or I'm out and probably alot of other people.

 

[GregLombardi]

They thought the gamepad was a good idea, and there is a chance they think the abomination in the OP is as well

So maybe not

They created Wii. As far as I am concerned, Nintendo are still the foremost experts on controllers, failed experiments aside.

 

[_PsiFire_]

You can't press 3 or 4 buttons at once, which would be bad news for fighting games.

Normally you wouldn't have to press 3 buttons down at the same time and even if you did you could do extra inputs with the pull of a single trigger buttons. Imagine if pulling a trigger would allow for 9 different inputs on the same analog.

Don't rely on how things have always been done in the past.

 

[oni-link]

They created Wii. As far as I am concerned, Nintendo are still the foremost experts on controllers, failed experiments aside.

The Wii did well for many reasons, and there is also a reason no one uses/gives a shit about pointer controls anymore, they're just not very good and/or not much fun to use when playing the vast majority of video games, they were novel and interesting once, and now that novelty has worm off, and most people prefer to use something that just works better

In Nintendos defense, they do release controllers that work well, and offer new experiences

The problem is they're choosing to sell something no one wants, the kind of people that buy games day 1, and have several systems, and buy 10 plus titles for each console, do not want gimmick controllers

The gamepad works, it's fine, but most people don't care, they'd rather play Mario and Zelda and not need to faff around with intrusive and extra stuff that in most cases (even with the Wii) adds nothing of value to the actual games

If they want to target the casual market, they might as well give up now, there is no way they will convince millions of people who are perfectly content with their phone, to shell out 300/400 dollars on a games console, and then an extra 60 on each game

If that is legitimately the plan, the best idea they have, then we'll be playing the Zelda after the NX one on a non Nintendo system

EDIT: It's all very well to like the Wiimote or gimmicky controllers in general, but you have to understand that for every person who wishes they could play a game with gimmicky controls, there are 10 more who wouldn't even play that game at all if they have to use gimmick controllers. If they want to the NX to sell more than the Wii U they can't keep going down this path, it's almost 2016, 2006 was a long time ago, you can't replicate the success Wii had via the same means, it's not 2006 anymore

 

[Spyder_Monkey]

The Wii did well for many reasons, and there is also a reason no one uses/gives a shit about pointer controls anymore, they're just not very good and/or not much fun to use when playing the vast majority of video games, they were novel and interesting once, and now that novelty has worm off, and most people prefer to use something that just works better

In Nintendos defense, they do release controllers that work well, and offer new experiences

The problem is they're choosing to sell something no one wants, the kind of people that buy games day 1, and have several systems, and buy 10 plus titles for each console, do not want gimmick controllers

The gamepad works, it's fine, but most people don't care, they'd rather play Mario and Zelda and not need to faff around with intrusive and extra stuff that in most cases (even with the Wii) adds nothing of value to the actual games

If they want to target the casual market, they might as well give up now, there is no way they will convince millions of people perfectly content with ther phone, to shell out 300/400 dollars on a games console, and then an extra 60 on each game

If that is legitimately the plan, the best idea they have, then we'll be playing the Zelda after the NX one on a non Nintendo system

None of this is true.

To add to that, wait until the thing is announced before proclaiming "No one wants this Nintendo is dooooooooooooooooooooooomed"

 

[7DollarHagane]

I think these kind of free form displays have a lot of appeal in a design sense.

I would love to see devices that have displays in a variety of shapes.

It's novel but I don't know how it would help gameplay. Maybe if the free form display was a touch sensitive capacative screen, and buttons were built into the screen display, you could have touch input alongside the buttons.

 

[oni-link]

None of this is true.

To add to that, wait until the thing is announced before proclaiming "No one wants this Nintendo is dooooooooooooooooooooooomed"

Go look at the Wii U sales figures, that is what I mean

There are more than 10m people that like Nintendo games, I mean, 50m people own a 3DS, but they don't see the Wii U as worth it

I don't think they're doomed, because I don't think they'll seriously go with the controller in the OP, I think they'll have a lesser gimmick on a more standard controller

 

[Trevelyan9999]

Remember the patent from Nintendo last year or so that had the interchangeable buttons, sticks and d-pad?

Also, remember that this new patent is "non-limiting" which means that those sticks and buttons on this controller shown can in fact be changed or increased if they want to. Another thing, Smash Bros NX will need all the same buttons and d-pad for the core fans which Nintendo also knows. A lot of people seem to be jumping to conclusions a bit too quickly.

 

[Neoxon]

Normally you wouldn't have to press 3 buttons down at the same time and even if you did you could do extra inputs with the pull of a single trigger buttons. Imagine if pulling a trigger would allow for 9 different inputs on the same analog.

Don't rely on how things have always been done in the past.

Then how would the Street Fighter style work (3 punches, 3 kicks). You wouldn't be able to use moves that require all 3 punches or all 3 kicks (like, say, Zangief's Double Lariat) with this style. Again, this is likely not final (if Nintendo goes through with it), so I hope they include regular buttons in the final product.

 

[-Horizon-]

Are we assuming this is for the handheld or for the home console? Because depending on which, it can have very different effects.

 

[GregLombardi]

The Wii did well for many reasons, and there is also a reason no one uses/gives a shit about pointer controls anymore, they're just not very good and/or not much fun to use when playing the vast majority of video games, they were novel and interesting once, and now that novelty has worm off, and most people prefer to use something that just works better

In Nintendos defense, they do release controllers that work well, and offer new experiences

The problem is they're choosing to sell something no one wants, the kind of people that buy games day 1, and have several systems, and buy 10 plus titles for each console, do not want gimmick controllers

The gamepad works, it's fine, but most people don't care, they'd rather play Mario and Zelda and not need to faff around with intrusive and extra stuff that in most cases (even with the Wii) adds nothing of value to the actual games

If they want to target the casual market, they might as well give up now, there is no way they will convince millions of people who are perfectly content with their phone, to shell out 300/400 dollars on a games console, and then an extra 60 on each game

If that is legitimately the plan, the best idea they have, then we'll be playing the Zelda after the NX one on a non Nintendo system

EDIT: It's all very well to like the Wiimote or gimmicky controllers in general, but you have to understand that for every person who wishes they could play a game with gimmicky controls, there are 10 more who wouldn't even play that game at all if they have to use gimmick controllers. If they want to the NX to sell more than the Wii U they can't keep going down this path, it's almost 2016, 2006 was a long time ago, you can't replicate the success Wii had via the same means, it's not 2006 anymore

One of the principal reasons Wii did well is Nintendo accidentally found the controller that the entire world wanted at the exact time they wanted it.

Let's discount that though. Okay.

 

[Neoxon]

Are we assuming this is for the handheld or for the home console? Because depending on which, it can have very different effects.

This could be for the NX Handheld judging by the cartridge slot. But it could also be an NX Console controller meant to coincide with the NX Handheld's probable touch screen.

 

[oni-link]

One of the principal reasons Wii did well is Nintendo accidentally found the controller that the entire world wanted at the exact time they wanted it.

Let's discount that though. Okay.

So it's a good business plan to keep doing that over and over hoping to God it happens again?

Even when each time you fail it goes horribly wrong?

Even when the idea was so good that under a decade later it's almost completely absent from the gaming landscape?

I'm not discounting that, I just think it's naive to bank on it

 

[Memento]

Touchscreen buttons is such a terrible ideia

 

[UnemployedVillain]

One of the principal reasons Wii did well is Nintendo accidentally found the controller that the entire world wanted at the exact time they wanted it.

Let's discount that though. Okay.

Nintendo is a 100+ year old business which has been in videogames for over 2 decades. They don't do things by accident

The IR pointer made first person and third person games at least somewhat controllable on consoles. That they're still not in use today (and not the default control scheme for all first and third person games) is the biggest shame
coming from the 7th generation. That shame falls on us gamers for being such whiny babies terrified of any kind of change (see: steam controller threads), and to many game developers (most of them frankly) for being too set in their ways - dictated by publishers wanting to make the safe buck. Dual analog should have been retired as a default control scheme long ago.

At least gyro seems to be sticking, at least as far as controllers go. MS is the odd man out when it comes to its inclusion, and probably the reason we don't have it as an alternate control scheme for FPS games (and devs just wanting to use dual analog like they have for the last 15+ years)

 

[StevieP]

The Wii did well for many reasons, and there is also a reason no one uses/gives a shit about pointer controls anymore, they're just not very good and/or not much fun to use when playing the vast majority of video games, they were novel and interesting once, and now that novelty has worm off, and most people prefer to use something that just works better

In Nintendos defense, they do release controllers that work well, and offer new experiences

The problem is they're choosing to sell something no one wants, the kind of people that buy games day 1, and have several systems, and buy 10 plus titles for each console, do not want gimmick controllers

The gamepad works, it's fine, but most people don't care, they'd rather play Mario and Zelda and not need to faff around with intrusive and extra stuff that in most cases (even with the Wii) adds nothing of value to the actual games

If they want to target the casual market, they might as well give up now, there is no way they will convince millions of people who are perfectly content with their phone, to shell out 300/400 dollars on a games console, and then an extra 60 on each game

If that is legitimately the plan, the best idea they have, then we'll be playing the Zelda after the NX one on a non Nintendo system

EDIT: It's all very well to like the Wiimote or gimmicky controllers in general, but you have to understand that for every person who wishes they could play a game with gimmicky controls, there are 10 more who wouldn't even play that game at all if they have to use gimmick controllers. If they want to the NX to sell more than the Wii U they can't keep going down this path, it's almost 2016, 2006 was a long time ago, you can't replicate the success Wii had via the same means, it's not 2006 anymore

The IR pointer made first person and third person games at least somewhat controllable on consoles. That they're still not in use today (and not the default control scheme for all first and third person games) is the biggest shame
coming from the 7th generation. That shame falls on us gamers for being such whiny babies terrified of any kind of change (see: steam controller threads for recent examples), and so many game developers (most of them frankly) for being too set in their ways - dictated by publishers wanting to make the safe buck. Dual analog should have been retired as a default control scheme long ago. That the biggest genre in gaming right now is still tied (and developed for in the AAA space) to this albatross solution requiring built in cheating mechanisms and game design principles that avoid verticality and spread targeting is, frankly, a disappointment of ridiculous proportions. Even gyro aiming is orders of magnitude better, and it doesn't approach the accuracy and lack of drift of IR in the console space.

 

[-Horizon-]

This could be for the NX Handheld judging by the cartridge slot. But it could also be an NX Console controller meant to coincide with the NX Handheld's probable touch screen.

I feel like the home console will come with a much more standard controller but the handheld will be interchangeable. Kind of like how the 3DS controller can be used to play Smash on the Wii U.

At the same time, they'll also push remote play with the handheld, like the vita and ps4.

I think having a console controller, like what people think in this thread, will make the console too expensive.

 

[Cheeseman Battitude]

Looking at the text input example of the patent, it springs to mind that a similar system could be utilised in-game, for menus and stuff. Maybe only a semicircle to allow for where your thumbs are, but say in an RPG where you're selecting moves. Each move could have a segment of the menu surrounding the analogue stick. You hold the stick there either for a period of time or confirm with a button and then the selection is made. Less clutter on the screen. Perfect.

 

[UnemployedVillain]

Looking at the text input example of the patent, it springs to mind that a similar system could be utilised in-game, for menus and stuff. Maybe only a semicircle to allow for where your thumbs are, but say in an RPG where you're selecting moves. Each move could have a segment of the menu surrounding the analogue stick. You hold the stick there either for a period of time or confirm with a button and then the selection is made. Less clutter on the screen. Perfect.

It's basically what Nintendo did with the Skyward Sword menus, just with a thumbstick

 

[oni-link]

The IR pointer made first person and third person games at least somewhat controllable on consoles. That they're still not in use today (and not the default control scheme for all first and third person games) is the biggest shame
coming from the 7th generation. That shame falls on us gamers for being such whiny babies terrified of any kind of change (see: steam controller threads), and to many game developers (most of them frankly) for being too set in their ways - dictated by publishers wanting to make the safe buck. Dual analog should have been retired as a default control scheme long ago.

Even though you make a lot of valid points, what do you want Nintendo to do?

Follow the path to an innovation that no one wants, and one that actively puts people who already like Nintendo games off?

Or should they make some industry standard hardware, then innovate with software, which is what they did with the NES through to Gamecube

Honestly, the 2nd option might also fail, but the first option 100% will fail, so if you want to see Nintendo carry on making systems that seems to be the best chance they have,

Make, sell and market a console for gamers, and use the fact that you're the only console with Nintendo games to draw people in, then use mobile games to draw in young players

If they go with gimmicks again even more people will say "For fucks sake" and ignore them, and the number of people who will be drawn in because of the gimmicks will be minuscule

Almost no one bought a Wii U because it has a second screen as the main reason for their purchase, millions of people probably didn't buy a Wii U because it cost too much and had a gimmick they couldn't be arsed with

 

[Refreshment.01]

Why do you say that? I'd say Nintendo is very much as capable as Valve at figuring out "where to go" as far as controller design goes, if not more so considering they've made considerably more games of vastly different genres, spanning both 2D and 3D. I wouldn't want them just copying what Valve did

Stop imagining things i haven't said, i was pretty clear in the first place.

If this is what many people thing that it is: "Taking a cuarrent touchscreen and slap sticks and physcial buttons on top of it". Then the Valve controller has beated them in functionality already. Sticks for pointing and camera control doesn't cut it these days.

Now put a touch screen with more advanced haptic feedback than valves lineal actuators and then Nintendo has something more functional than Valves trackpads. Although the trackpads do have the depressing clicks which are really useful.

Also there's nothing wrong with Nintendo using what others have implemented. The Steam controller is an amalgamation of every control feature through out the years that made sense, it even has the 2 stage triggers and motion sensors Nintendo controllers standarized.

I find it interesting that the elliptical shape is one of the patent claims, yet those grips are only mentioned in descriptions of the "non-limiting example embodiments."

I'm thinking of this as a mash up of the Wii Remote and Gamepad.

Btw, I've been reading through this a bit more this morning. They also mention scroll wheels and distributed processing in the detailed description. Again, not in the claims, but very interesting that they're mentioning those as possibilities regardless.

The trigger trackpads/wheels is something that needs to happen. One of the controller focus should be adding more functionality to what we already have. Letting the triger sense directions and gestures would fit the bill nicely.

Yes, the eliptical shape is one of the patent claims. i do understand why the shape is eliptical in the context of the controller and type of screen yet i don't see it as such a great thing in the first place.

Also can you be more specific about "a mash of Wii and Gamepad controllers"?

 

[Nanashrew]

Even though you make a lot of valid points, what do you want Nintendo to do?

Follow the path to an innovation that no one wants, and one that actively puts people who already like Nintendo games off?

Or should they make some industry standard hardware, then innovate with software, which is what they did with the NES through to Gamecube

Honestly, the 2nd option might also fail, but the first option 100% will fail, so if you want to see Nintendo carry on making systems that seems to be the best chance they have,

Make, sell and market a console for gamers, and use the fact that you're the only console with Nintendo games to draw people in, then use mobile games to draw in young players

If they go with gimmicks again even more people will say "For fucks sake" and ignore them, and the number of people who will be drawn in because of the gimmicks will be minuscule

Almost no one bought a Wii U because it has a second screen as the main reason for their purchase, millions of people probably didn't buy a Wii U because it cost too much and had a gimmick they couldn't be arsed with

What room do they even have in the traditional space when there are no gaps between the other two?

 

[elitewillie1]

God this looks fucking awful. Damn you Nintendo.

 

[The_Lump]

Even though you make a lot of valid points, what do you want Nintendo to do?

Follow the path to an innovation that no one wants, and one that actively puts people who already like Nintendo games off?

Or should they make some industry standard hardware, then innovate with software, which is what they did with the NES through to Gamecube

Honestly, the 2nd option might also fail, but the first option 100% will fail, so if you want to see Nintendo carry on making systems that seems to be the best chance they have

Again, maybe wait for the product...

 

[Fourth Storm]

You can't press 3 or 4 buttons at once, which would be bad news for fighting games.

I'm reading further into the patent. The detailed description mentions the possibility of the cross pad and depressable buttons, even though these are not in the claims. Also, it mentions that some shit could be going on in back of the controller. Speculate away. I will try to find the quotes again now.

 

[Nanashrew]

I'm reading further into the patent. The detailed description mentions the possibility of the cross pad and depressable buttons, even though these are not in the claims. Also, it mentions that some shit could be going on in back of the controller. Speculate away. I will try to find the quotes again now.

O:!

Paddles here we come!

 

[Neoxon]

I'm reading further into the patent. The detailed description mentions the possibility of the cross pad and depressable buttons, even though these are not in the claims. Also, it mentions that some shit could be going on in back of the controller. Speculate away. I will try to find the quotes again now.

That's what I'm hoping is the case. These patents are usually just rough concepts that likely differ from the final product if they're fully realized. I hope that it's the case concerning a D-Pad & buttons for such a handheld....or controller, whatever this is.

 

[UnemployedVillain]

Stop imagining things i haven't said, i was pretty clear in the first place.

If this is what many people thing that it is: "Taking a cuarrent touchscreen and slap sticks and physcial buttons on top of it". Then the Valve controller has beated them in functionality already. Sticks for pointing and camera control doesn't cut it these days.

Now put a touch screen with more advanced haptic feedback than valves lineal actuators and then Nintendo has something more functional than Valves trackpads. Although the trackpads do have the depressing clicks which are really useful.

Also there's nothing wrong with Nintendo using what others have implemented. The Steam controller is an amalgamation of every control feature through out the years that made sense, it even has the 2 stage triggers and motion sensors Nintendo controllers standarized.

Stop imagining what, exactly? What were you trying to say that I misrepresented? Nothing is wrong with Nintendo using ideas others have implemented. They weren't the first to have a second analog stick or triggers, and it was a good thing they adopted those. I'm saying I don't want them to simply build off what Valve is doing. Valve approached controller design from the perspective of being PC devs and their controller reflects that with its haptic trackpad. I'm saying I'd rather Nintendo take their own approach, as console devs, and see where that goes. No need to get defensive

 

[_Ryo_]

Hmm. I really hope it is neither a free form display where there are physical buttons on top of the gamebplay as that completely breaks immersion and is basically the equivalent of a HUD and UX that you are not able to disable, nor a screen that lacks physical buttons as then its just a pad made for casuals.

 

[oni-link]

What room do they even have in the traditional space when there are no gaps between the other two?

They have Nintendo games

You seriously think someone is going to not buy a Nintendo console even though they like Nintendo games because they already have a PS4, which doesn't have Nintendo games?

This point always blows my mind because it implies people are primarily buying Nintendo consoles because they love gimmicks, not because they they love Nintendo games

As you're basically saying, "if you release the NX without a gimmick, what is the point of buying one"

To which the answer is, I like Mario, Zelda, Splatoon, Metroid and Smash, and until they turn up on XB1 or PS4, then I'm gonna by a Nintendo system, that is it's selling point, which amazingly most Nintendo fans seem to miss

 

[Nanashrew]

They have Nintendo games

You seriously think someone is going to not buy a Nintendo console even though they like Nintendo games because they already have a PS4, which doesn't have Nintendo games?

This point always blows my mind because it implies people are primarily buying Nintendo consoles because they love gimmicks, not because they they love Nintendo games

As you're basically saying, "if you release the NX without a gimmick, what is the point of buying one"

To which the answer is, I like Mario, Zelda, Splatoon, Metroid and Smash, and until they turn up on XB1 or PS4, then I'm gonna by a Nintendo system, that is it's selling point, which amazingly most Nintendo fans seem to miss

You also don't believe that's what they'll do too, when changing their pipeline, trying to make software development more streamlined so there are less gaps so they can make more software and even innovate through that alongside hardware?

 

[StevieP]

Even though you make a lot of valid points, what do you want Nintendo to do?

Follow the path to an innovation that no one wants, and one that actively puts people who already like Nintendo games off?

Or should they make some industry standard hardware, then innovate with software, which is what they did with the NES through to Gamecube

Honestly, the 2nd option might also fail, but the first option 100% will fail, so if you want to see Nintendo carry on making systems that seems to be the best chance they have,

Make, sell and market a console for gamers, and use the fact that you're the only console with Nintendo games to draw people in, then use mobile games to draw in young players

If they go with gimmicks again even more people will say "For fucks sake" and ignore them, and the number of people who will be drawn in because of the gimmicks will be minuscule

Almost no one bought a Wii U because it has a second screen as the main reason for their purchase, millions of people probably didn't buy a Wii U because it cost too much and had a gimmick they couldn't be arsed with

First off, if you honestly think all Nintendo did between nes and GameCube is software innovation, you should probably check your history. The biggest software innovation was and still is tied to hardware innovation.

Second, your assessment of the Wii u's failure is way too simplistic. The console had way, way more problems than its controller having a screen on it. It wasn't a compelling product from its design to its marketing to its messaging to its software to its price to etc etc. It's a horribly conceived device, despite the excellent software that's populated it since launch.

Lastly, without somebody in the console space thinking out of the box, the marketplace becomes more and more singularly focused. As an example, the healthier marketplaces (namely mobile and PC) have something for everyone. Not just us "young males who want to kill things with a 2 decade old controller". There is little to no growth (or in the current case, contraction) continuing this path, especially when you consider young people are currently playing free games on mommys old phone. These kids aren't growing up with 400 dollar boxes and 60-120 dollar games. The success or failure of any of what you continually call "gimmicks" is entirely dependant on software applications and whether they ignite people to purchase and use these platforms.

Tying it back to controllers, the Wii remote was the best idea in console controllers in a LONG time until the recent steam attempt, and it did give people (young, old, etc) a reason to play video games. And it gave people like us a way to play the genres we love with improvements that are very real and quantifiable. The steam controller certainly isn't for the mass market, but at least it's got some improvements on the current shit state of pads. Instead of making a dual analog pad with a screen (developers certainly told Nintendo that they absolutely had to have a dual analog pad if they wanted ports) they should have expanded on the ideas they already brought forth. IR is one of those things. Whether this patent signals an improvement on the status quo I couldn't tell you. But it couldn't possibly be any worse than the dual analog pads we still have to deal with on consoles now.

 

[Papacheeks]

The IR pointer made first person and third person games at least somewhat controllable on consoles. That they're still not in use today (and not the default control scheme for all first and third person games) is the biggest shame
coming from the 7th generation. That shame falls on us gamers for being such whiny babies terrified of any kind of change (see: steam controller threads), and to many game developers (most of them frankly) for being too set in their ways - dictated by publishers wanting to make the safe buck. Dual analog should have been retired as a default control scheme long ago.

Nothing trumps mouse/keyboard controls. Steam controller from what I'v heard emulates mouse/keyboard sensitivity once you get use to it.
But it still won't trump mouse and keyboard. There are some games that require it, just like how fast paced action/adventure games require fast button response with controllers.
I think the evolution will be shipping a mouse/keyboard type device with a console similar to what razer has out.

Using IR pointer and sensors, is irrelevant now. This tech has existed in arcade's in a similar fashion, maybe not as advanced and accurate as seen in the Wii.
If it was the revolutionary step needed to go forward for control's, then we would have seen better adoption. But arcade's outside of a few games are pretty much dead. Motion controls outside of a few are dead.
Games that have and still will span the test of time don't have some gimmicky controller. I guess maybe you could put SUper mario Galaxy in there. But it's the only one I could think of outside of maybe pikmin 3.

Shadow of the Colossus , Mario 64, Zelda ocarina of time, Metroid Prime, Super Metroid, Mario Kart, Golden Eye, Half life etc. Didn't require gimmicks to be timeless. The same can be said for The last of Us. It's character's and story are what elevate that game to something that will be talked about for years to come.

Game controls need to evolve I agree, and part of that is on developers, and platform holders. But if these advancements you claim that are the true evolution in controls are not being adopted by gamer's because they are "babies". I think you are way off base in your assumption when evolution in games has shown physical buttons will more than likely trump some IR, or touch screen type device for precision controls. I don't see Pro/ casual fight fans using tablet's or some kind of steam controller to play Street fighter, guilty gear.
The advancements actually have come, in the form of a touch pad, built in voice commands, but if there is no demand for these type of controls, why force them upon people?
Having a interactive screen on your controller I think is the natural progression along with slowly going the way of the steam controller with mouse like sensitivity for your control's.

But calling people "whiny babies", is very short sighted when looking at how many of these advancements have been out in the industry, but are not adopted. And that's because people haven't been given a reason to use them. Maybe when we see competitive RTS games on consoles, we might see some changes in controller's. But until then physical buttons are here to stay.

 

[Spyder_Monkey]

Go look at the Wii U sales figures, that is what I mean

There are more than 10m people that like Nintendo games, I mean, 50m people own a 3DS, but they don't see the Wii U as worth it

I don't think they're doomed, because I don't think they'll seriously go with the controller in the OP, I think they'll have a lesser gimmick on a more standard controller

The Wii U hasn't sold well because of the gamepad. It hasn't sold well because of poor marketing and lack of third parties on board.

 

[Nanashrew]

Buttons will always be important to Nintendo and they state as much all the time, even when people kept asking for VC titles on smartphones.

 

[Taker666]

I'm not sure how keen I'd be on them spending this extra cash for a console joypad..not after the cost issues of the Wii U gamepad.

..but for a handheld it would be fine..especially if they are doing away with dual screens and need a touch more space to make up for it.

There's a fair bit of extra information you could hide in the top left and right corners of that screen that might previously have been on the second screen. I could see lots of games keeping a rectangular game image in the middle, with the sides just used for others stuff. It might be useful for those patented shoulder scroll wheels ....with the space above each stick being used to show which scroll wheel item is selected as well as the next/previous item in line.

 

[The_Lump]

They have Nintendo games

You seriously think someone is going to not buy a Nintendo console even though they like Nintendo games because they already have a PS4, which doesn't have Nintendo games?

This point always blows my mind because it implies people are primarily buying Nintendo consoles because they love gimmicks, not because they they love Nintendo games

As you're basically saying, "if you release the NX without a gimmick, what is the point of buying one"

To which the answer is, I like Mario, Zelda, Splatoon, Metroid and Smash, and until they turn up on XB1 or PS4, then I'm gonna by a Nintendo system, that is it's selling point, which amazingly most Nintendo fans seem to miss

You're completely disregarding the cost implication of making a console that matches PS4/XOne. The problem is that not many who are looking for a 2nd console are going to fork out another £300 right now, and not many who are buying their first/primary console are going to buy the one with no guaranteed 3rd party support. To get a foothold back in the market Nintendo needs to make sure it can be a legit 2nd console choice. That means a) Offer something affordable, b) offer something different and c) have it be developer friendly so you don't pull another WiiU.

 

[GDGF]

I feel like the home console will come with a much more standard controller but the handheld will be interchangeable. Kind of like how the 3DS controller can be used to play Smash on the Wii U.

At the same time, they'll also push remote play with the handheld, like the vita and ps4.

I think having (the screened gamepad-esque) console controller, like what people think in this thread, will make the console too expensive.

Way back when in the early speculation threads I was trumpeting that I felt the console would come with a screened controller to keep compatibility between legacy games and to bridge the interface gap between NX handheld and NX console, but if they couldn't find a way to bring cost down on the controller it would come at the expense of console power.

That was way before the patents of helper devices came out. Since then, I maintain my earlier position, and figure the way they are going to keep cost down is with modular upgrades via those helper devices.