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[SPOILERS] Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Thread #2) - One Thumb Up

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Egg0

Banned
Just saw it, really enjoyed it. I've seen all the movies but I never had an affinity to the original trilogy. Finn and Rey were great together.

When Greg Grunberg showed up, I was just like, "Oh right. J.J. Abrams."

Disappointed when the Supreme Leader turned out to be a hologram. Was hoping they straight up introduced giant humanoids in the movies.

Anyone think they'll complete Kylo Ren's Vader arc by having him turn against the Supreme leader in episode 9?
 
And to those who said "fuck helicopter shot"

Why? It was fine. Some people need to chill a little. This was a monumental task that no one could have handled better.
 
Just got back from my first viewing and really liked it. Rey is a brilliant character.

I'm a little surprised to see how many people are convinced Ren was portrayed as some powerful warrior, as I thought the movie did a pretty good job of making him seem rather weak and inexperienced once something goes even the slightest bit wrong.

Yup, he hadn't yet completed his training and he couldn't keep check of his emotions. As much as the mask was used to emulate Vader, it was also an intimidation factor. Without it, he's just a lanky looking guy. I think he's probably my favorite villain in a long time, he's actually interesting.
 
Don't know if this was posted but someone mentioned much earlier in spoiler thread#1 that they were disappointed Yoda wasn't in the movie. I said I heard Yoda in the flashback/dream sequence.

Obi-Wan and Yoda are secretly in Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Both Ewan McGregor and the late Alec Guinness brought Kenobi back.


"Abrams says. “Here’s the cool part. We asked Ewan McGregor to come in and do the line. And he was awesome and we were very grateful. "

http://www.ew.com/article/2015/12/20/jj-abrams-reveals-obi-wan-and-yoda-are-star-wars-force-awakens

They had Obi-Wan's Clone Wars actor do it first which isn't mentioned but still pretty cool.
 
Yeah a lot of these discussions can be pinned down to a lack of explanation about things in the movie. Most stuff is just briefly mentioned, like the republic and the first order. We dont really have a sense of scale.
That's how ANH was. It seems more clear in retrospect because the universe has been thoroughly explored and documented that you know a lot that doesn't really come across in the OT.

It's about the personal journey and perspective of the characters. I like not defining Ren's true capabilities because the characters don't know either. He is an enigma, like Vader was for ANH and arguably throughout the OT. And that makes him scarier and creates more suspense about what will happen next.
 
I saw Han's death coming a mile away. I knew he was a gonner as soon as he stepped onto that bridge. Kinda took the impact out of it.
You were supposed to know at this point though. A lady in my theatre started crying lol... everyone could sense it. A bad feeling, like we'd never see him again.
 

Boke1879

Member
He passed by killing his father, his last loving attachment to the light. Now that he cut the last part of good from his life that was tearing him apart, as Kylo says, he can complete his training as a Sith. Or whatever. Expect a Darth title in the next one for Kylo.

While yes he may have gotten over that hump. His mind is still unstable and he's very inexperienced. Not to mention yes he was very injured.


But yea to the above posters credit. When Ren has the mask on he seems very sure of himself until his first tantrum. The movie does a good job of showing him off as someone who is emotionally unstable and yes inexperienced.

He seems to have a good mastery of the force against lesser opponents. Poe seemed to try to do everything in his power to not succumb to Ren's mind invasion, but when he tried to do it with Rey someone who clearly has a strong affinity to the force he struggles. Badly.
 

Glass

Member
Are people forgetting how the first time we're introduced to Ren he just stops a plasma bolt without even looking at it and leaves it hanging there for the entire scene? Like he's not a Sith master, but he's damn good.

He might be a brat, but he's still super powerful. It's not one or the other.

Like, this was and still is, fucking badass

SWTV2-3-KyloRen.gif
 

Syf

Banned
Anyone think they'll complete Kylo Ren's Vader arc by having him turn against the Supreme leader in episode 9?
I used to think that but my opinion has actually changed. He killed his own family, something even Vader couldn't do. I think he'll stay dark side.
 
Anyone think they'll complete Kylo Ren's Vader arc by having him turn against the Supreme leader in episode 9?

I think he'll do it in the next movie, myself. He won't turn to the light. He's going to kill Snoke for being full of shit, and assume his place as head of the First Order.

I think his character arc will go like Patrick Bateman -> Tony Montana
 
So is Snoke Darth Plagueis?

I wonder. Plagueis is canon, but it looks like his book is not. He's definitely inspired by him if not him. Someone probably saw that picture of his giant head by Palpatine and went with it. Wouldn't be the first time they cherry picked something from the EU and changed it to fit the new canon. I just watched a Clone Wars episode where they renamed Korriban to Moraband.
 
This is kind of what I'm talking about. Luke had never so much as used a sword before in his life and he's blocking shots with one while blind within moments of trying, but you are rationalizing it away. Yet you can't accept someone who was a melee fighter for most of her life using a sword effectively.

Yeah, if you just focus on the OT using the force and lightsabers seems pretty damn easy for people like Luke and Rey. And I got the impression from the movie that Kylo isnt as strong with the force as rey or anywhere near Vaders level with a lightsaber.
 

JeffZero

Purple Drazi
I think he'll do it in the next movie, myself. He won't turn to the light. He's going to kill Snoke for being full of shit, and assume his place as head of the First Order.

I think his character arc will go like Patrick Bateman -> Tony Montana

This isn't my theory, but I really like it and would be happy if it happened.
 

NekoFever

Member
I saw Han's death coming a mile away. I knew he was a gonner as soon as he stepped onto that bridge. Kinda took the impact out of it.

I saw it coming as soon as Harrison Ford actually agreed to do the movie.

So everyone talks about Kylo getting shot as making him weaker. What about Rey getting force thrown 20 feet in the air against a tree by Kylo? She was knocked unconscious and should probably have broken bones. Shouldn't that affect her abilities too?
The only attacks that cause serious damage in movie fights are shooting or stabbing. Anything else can be shaken off in a few minutes. It is known.
 

Timeaisis

Member
Alright, so I'll share my thoughts about the film. All over, a really solid Star Wars film. Not my favorite, but head and shoulders above all the prequels.

I think, currently it falls here: V > IV > VII > VI > III > II > I
I think I like it more than ROTJ, but that could be hype talking.

Things I loved about the film:
- Fun Star Wars characters return! This is the biggest thing for me. It feels like it has been forever since Star Wars has been fun without being over the top dumb (Jar Jar, Podracing, etc.). This is the first movie since VI that's introduced cool, fun characters.
- Rey and Poe are awesome.
- Han and Chewie were fantastic.
- Fight scenes were excellent and not too over-the top. Dramatic tension was kept intact, something the prequels sorely lacked.
- Cinematography was probably the best in the series since Episode V.
- Music was good, but nothing new as insanely memorable as The Imperial March.
- Finn was fun
- Kylo Ren seems like a really good villain, and should have a really interesting arc. I like that he's obviously very flawed.
- The significance of Han's death
- The first 30 minutes of the characters and how they meet is fantastic! I love how it brought them all together, great stuff.

Things I didn't care for:
- Han's death was a little anticlimactic for me. I liked the significance, but if feels like there was not a whole lot of reaction or grieving to it. I wanted to see the character's (especially Leia and Chewie) react to it more.
- Kylo isn't very good at lightsaber-ing. It's a little confusing given how strong his force powers are (very, very strong). Maybe he just hasn't been trained all that well yet.
- Rey is either going to be the most powerful Jedi ever or she's already had some training somewhere. Seriously, to be able to use Force Pull and Mind Tricks without any training...oh lord. That's some crazy shit right there. That bit seemed weird.
- Han's weird one-off about Chewie's bowcaster. There was plenty of other humor in the film, this didn't need to be there. Felt out of place and weird.
- Some pacing issues near the middle. When the touchdown on Takodana (I think?) the story slows down a little. I enjoyed the creature sequence, nice callback to Mos Eisley, but I felt it lingered here a little overlong. Rey is called tot he Saber, Finn decides to peace out, then Rey runs away. Seemed like that could've been placed elsewhere or paced a little better. But I understand it needed to be there to set-up the "Rey is force-sensitive" subplot and explain why she gets captured. But it still seems to be the most out of place portion of the whole film. The battle sequence afterwards was great, though!
- Poe is underutilized. He seems like an awesome character, but didn't get enough screen time. Hope to see him lots lots more in the sequels. I think they eased up on him because you can't have two snarky badass pilots scene-stealing from eachother (Han and Poe, for example). Now that Han is gone I hope Poe fills his shoes.
- Kylo and Han have very limited development as father and son. I wish this was explored more before their final confrontation. Maybe as a flashback or something, to establish their relationship. I feel the scene could've had a lot more emotional impact if I knew these character's relationship a little better.

Anyway, great SW film, I'd give it an 8/10 probably. Here's hoping for more good stuff to come in the SW universe. I hope to see more of Poe. Rey is going to be a great character, and Kylo is going to be interesting. Finn, I like, but I don't know how he's going to fit in the series as a whole.
 

Cheebo

Banned
This is kind of what I'm talking about. Luke had never so much as used a sword before in his life and he's blocking shots with one while blind within moments of trying, but you are rationalizing it away. Yet you can't accept someone who was a melee fighter for most of her life using a sword effectively.
Exactly. It's why the Mary Sue nonsense reeks so bad of sexist bullshit.

I mean let's not forget Luke also in ANH after almost no training whatsoever was powerful enough in the force to turn off his nav computer, close his eyes, and use the force to know when and where exactly to shoot his torpedo to blow up the Death Star.
 
Are people forgetting how the first time we're introduced to Ren he just stops a plasma bolt without even looking at it and leaves it hanging there for the entire scene? Like he's not a Sith master, but he's damn good.

He might be a brat, but he's still super powerful. It's not one or the other.

Like, this was and still is, fucking badass

SWTV2-3-KyloRen.gif

You're comparing a blaster shot with someone who is strong with the Force and might be Luke's daughter?
 

Ether_Snake

安安安安安安安安安安安安安安安
I think Kylo will kill Snoke when he finds out that the force is trying to stay balanced (if that is what is really happening); if he kills Snoke, he taps into more power to fill the void left by Snoke's death. My guess is Luke knows this, which is why he put Rey away years ago.
 

Boke1879

Member
Just saw it, really enjoyed it. I've seen all the movies but I never had an affinity to the original trilogy. Finn and Rey were great together.

When Greg Grunberg showed up, I was just like, "Oh right. J.J. Abrams."

Disappointed when the Supreme Leader turned out to be a hologram. Was hoping they straight up introduced giant humanoids in the movies.

Anyone think they'll complete Kylo Ren's Vader arc by having him turn against the Supreme leader in episode 9?

I don't know where the next to episodes will go. They can literally take these characters anywhere now. Although I do believe Ren will be much more powerful and prepared this time. I'm curious to how long the time jump will be.

And to those who said "fuck helicopter shot"

Why? It was fine. Some people need to chill a little. This was a monumental task that no one could have handled better.

I thought the heli shot was fine. I do think the panning of Rey and Luke back and forth lasted a bit too long though. Luke looked like a pissed off old man lol.
 

golem

Member
The film made it clear he was just as surprised as we are to find out exactly how good the bowcaster is. No issue here imho.

Most people in battlefront think the dl-44 is the one and only too lol

Are people forgetting how the first time we're introduced to Ren he just stops a plasma bolt without even looking at it and leaves it hanging there for the entire scene? Like he's not a Sith master, but he's damn good.

I think its mostly impressive only because we haven't seen it done before. We've seen Vader absorb laser beams straight up
 

Armaros

Member
Exactly. It's why the Mary Sue nonsense reeks so bad of sexist bullshit.

I mean let's not forget Luke also in ANH after almost no training whatsoever was powerful enough in the force to turn off his nav computer, close his eyes, and use the force to know when and where exactly to shoot his torpedo to blow up the Death Star.

And all of this with the background of a farmer living under someone else's care, not living alone and surviving on her own since childhood.
 
The choreography in his duels with Finn and Rey demonstrate how much more powerful and disciplined he is. Ren is toying with the both of them until that dumbass power up.

I've already had this long ass argument that didn't go anywhere, but I don't buy that killing Han had Ren in a tizzy. He had a moment of weakness when Chewie shot him - something he otherwise should have been able to defend himself against - but immediately after that he hunts down Finn and Rey and fucks them up. All the while they're fighting, none of the choreography suggests he is fighting purely on rage. He is deliberate with Finn until he gets knicked and then proceeds to wreck him. He goes savage on Rey but still holds back enough to try and recruit her. There no wide swinging arcs, he doesn't scream his head off aside from calling Finn a traitor, he doesn't stumble, he doesn't miss by a mile or swings his saber aimlessly. Everything about the way he fights suggests that he is still very much in control even if he is in a lot of pain and pissed the fuck off. Whatever turmoil he is feeling is compartmentalised, bottled for another time, perhaps the next time he is alone with granddaddy's helmet.
I mentioned this in an earlier post, but he is making crazy, wide-arcing swings in his final fight with both of them. I think they were going out of their way to show you how terribly unfocused he was. You can practice all you want for a fight, and have all the experience in the world, but lose your focus and you're banged. Now, even in physical pain and being mentally weak, he was definitely still pushing them. But it wasn't a one-sided ass beating. Again---those wild swings he is making goes to show how off-kilter he is.

lmao, Rey didn't use martial arts. She gave those thugs an old fashioned asswhooping. There wasn't much grace to it. It was a scrap. She got hurt, but they got hurt way more because she's much tougher and a better fighter with a stick she obviously knows how to use.
Yeah. This I agree with. She kinda just kicks and whacks them around. There wasn't much pretty or martial-artsy about what she did.

Ren is volatile, not reckless. When things don't go his way he is prone to throwing a tantrum, but he doesn't actually do anything that is reckless. Even when he is fighting Rey and has her on the ropes, he's trying to seduce her to the Dark Side.
And I really loved this moment. It goes to show that even though he just killed Han, he completely believes him that Snoke is just going to use him----I think. That's why he would want an apprentice, right? To kill Snoke. Just like when Vader tried getting Luke to join him so together they could rule the galaxy.

Rey fights with a staff, and we've only seen her use it successfully against random thugs. She had no business standing his equal, let alone owning him in a lightsaber duel. What happened in TFA is like if Luke with incomplete training had owned Vader simply by tapping into the Force. It would have been just as dumb.
A bit, but in honesty Luke did have to tap into the Force to beat Vader with a level-up. He was trained at this point, but it was his rage and anger that let him tap into the power of the dark side and finally beat Vader ironically enough. Then when he was just about to give in completely to the dark side, he throws his saber to the side like a badass.
 

JonCha

Member
The Finn / BB8 thumbs up scene is probably the best scene in the movie. When he took out the lighter it was the cutest thing ever.

Yeah out off all the jokes this definitely got a good reaction from lots of people in the cinema I was just in.

I've just got home from seeing it too. Overall I really enjoyed it; probably a bit too much action for my taste. As other have said though, to introduce the three new characters and make them likeable (particularly Rey).

I'm glad they killed of Han Solo because I honestly thought Harrison Ford was pretty poor in this film. Adam Driver was also really good: powerful, and a bit creepy, but not as intimidating as Vader was/is. I liked how his petulant outbursts displayed his obvious insecurity too.

So yeah, roll on Episode 8 and more Luke. That should be interesting.
 

SomTervo

Member
I think the pacing was the film's only deep weakness. The other stuff is easy to see past, but for me the lack of great "breather" sections in between the set pieces was really obvious. Ep 4-6 all had these great periods where all they did was plan and talk, usually when characters are apart and sorting out their own thing. And even the set pieces have moments of levity and standstill.

The ony bit of that in TFA is just before they leave for Death Planet, and it's the worst written bit in the film. When they're all verbally wanking each other off standing around a big holigram.

Thought the rest of it was brill.

I think the moment that Rey won over the crowd in my theater was when she fought off the thieves when Finn was running to help her. She stood her ground very well and then she charged after Finn with a crazy face. That was the moment everybody loved her i think.

Fantastic bit. Fantastic character.
 

Dead

well not really...yet
How much older than Rey do you guys think Kylo is?
6-8 years I bet

That's enough of a difference so that Kylo was training under Luke and all of a sudden here is this little girl who comes in the picture and is a force God
 

Wanderer5

Member
I gotta say, the lightsaber fight at the end was really sweet beside maybe a couple wonky editing moments. It was decently fast paced, but it didn't go overboard with the movement like much of the prequel fights, and just had more omph to it. Kylo Ren's fightstyle was kind of a sight to see given how it fits with his unstable state.
 

Jetman

Member
You're coming at this too much like a video game or with the baggage of the old EU. You're treating it like "Mind Trick" or "Force Grab" are specific skills to learn after leveling up, and not the result of limitless possibility and imagination. They might be specific skills one would learn from a teacher, but that doesn't preclude these powers manifesting out of necessity. Take the "force grab". She needs to get to the sword before Kylo, and that desire manifests through this vague power surging through her. The force is more nebulous than that. It calls back directly to the "feel the force and make it happen" from the OT. You don't necessarily need to be taught to make it happen, but teaching can help you reliably take control of it.

Hmm, good post. I can see where you are coming from, and 'maybe' buy that.
The only thing I keep coming back to is traditionally these skills were trained and that's what we've pretty much always seen.
Rey could be different, but I hope Episode 8 shows that Luke did in fact work with her at an early age.


You say Luke couldn't move objects until Yoda showed him, but you must have missed the beginning of the film where he made an object move without Yoda showing him (lightsaber in the snow). Without having been taught, he reached out through the force and made it happen.

Dammit! Haha, got me :p - don't know how I forgot about that.
 

MrBadger

Member
I think he'll do it in the next movie, myself. He won't turn to the light. He's going to kill Snoke for being full of shit, and assume his place as head of the First Order.

I think his character arc will go like Patrick Bateman -> Tony Montana

Alternatively, he'll attempt to overthrow Snoke because he thinks he's powerful enough, but he won't be able to pull it off due to being too weak.
 
I wonder. Plagueis is canon, but it looks like his book is not. He's definitely inspired by him if not him. Someone probably saw that picture of his giant head by Palpatine and went with it. Wouldn't be the first time they cherry picked something from the EU and changed it to fit the new canon. I just watched a Clone Wars episode where they renamed Korriban to Moraband.
Someone pointed out prior how damn similar Snoke and Plagueis themes are. It can't be a coincidence:

Snoke Theme:


Plagueis Theme:

When I re-watched this last time, I couldn't help but focus on the massive scar on Snoke's head. I assume that is leftover from however Palpatine tried to kill him.
 

IJoel

Member
I saw Han's death coming a mile away. I knew he was a gonner as soon as he stepped onto that bridge. Kinda took the impact out of it.

It was very obvious this would happen the moment Leia asked him to bring back their son. In that moment, I was like "dammit they're killing Han".
 
Lol at "The movie sucked because we didn't get every iota of every character's backstory crammed into it!" God forbid they let your imagination fill in some of the blanks, or leave mysteries for further films to explore.
 
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