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Devin Faraci: What BvS’ Second Week Drop Means For The DC Movieverse

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Dalek

Member
http://birthmoviesdeath.com/2016/04/04/what-bvs-second-week-drop-means-for-the-dc-movieverse

This weekend Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice experienced an extraordinary drop at the box office - even bigger than what analysts had predicted based on its opening weekend. That's not great, and it puts BvS in a weird position of being a movie that is making a lot of money but maybe not enough money. It's not the kind of failure that leads to heads rolling at the studio, but there is nobody at Warner Bros who walked into 2016 expecting to see their biggest superhero movie ever (and a major Hail Mary for a studio that has had a rough couple of years) struggle to outgross Deadpool, a low budget R-rated film. This was a movie that was swinging for box office all-timer status, and it looks like it may not break one billion worldwide (one billion worldwide being that magic number that puts you in the all-stars). In Hollywood when your movie is big and is aiming big, 'good' box office isn't enough.

But it isn't the long arc of the box office that should be giving Warner Bros pause, it's that second week drop. BvS opened well, a testament to the saturation marketing and audience interest in seeing these two characters onscreen. It opened big despite corrosive reviews, but it began quickly dropping off over the weekend because of the one thing a movie like this fears the most: bad word of mouth. The movie earned a B CinemaScore, which is straight up mediocre (even the worst, lamest blockbusters tend to get A/A- CinemaScores) and which reflected an audience dissatisfaction. The second week numbers drove this home - people don't love this movie and they're telling their friends not to go.

That's certainly bad for this film but it's a huge problem for the entirety of the DC Movieverse. They have set that universe up not as separate franchises that will come together, as Marvel did in their Phase One, but rather as a series of sequels to this movie. The entire universe spins out of Batman v Superman, so the audience's feelings about BvS could impact those films.
Warner Bros saw this coming as early as the beginning of this year. Suicide Squad is currently doing reshoots (they were on the Paramount lot, they're in Downtown LA next), some of which are intended to add more levity and character moments to the film. That decision wasn't made when BvS opened, but rather when WB saw a) what BvS was and b) when the audience went nuts over the fun Suicide Squad trailer. The studio already began course correction with that film, and I am guessing they will continue with all the films they have in development. Last week James Wan was at WonderCon where he emphasized how 'fun' Aquaman will be, a word that no one involved in BvS would have ever used.

The good news for fans is that Warner Bros is locked in on some of these films - Wonder Woman is shot, Suicide Squad is finishing up the last bits of reshoots and post, Aquaman is for sure happening. Cyborg, we'll see with that one. I imagine The Flash has a great chance of actually getting made. And some other films may make it on to the slate in an effort to continue correcting the course of things - Lobo, for instance will be chasing the Deadpool crowd. Looking for more sure-things WB will likely get The Batman onto the schedule sooner rather than later.The DC Movieverse will march on, if only because it must - as long as Marvel is able to crank out successful superhero films Warner Bros must stay competitive with their own DC properties. It's a matter of pride, if nothing else, but it's also a matter of keeping shareholders happy - people who invest in your company get mad when it looks like you're leaving money on the table, as WB had been doing with the DC heroes.

So the films will continue. They just may find themselves different. I think the move from here on out isn't to make and market these movies as extensions of BvS but rather as answers to them. You know that thing where a director is selling his new franchise movie and in the process explains why the last one was bad but this one was better? That's the whole campaign for Wonder Woman and Suicide Squad. And I imagine that the attitude in developing Aquaman and The Flash is to find another tone, since the tone in BvS doesn't seem to have landed (although to be fair the movie has a ton of problems that are not tone related. The tone is the easiest problem to identify, though). People who thought they were going to get a ten film slate of dour and angry DC movies are probably in for a rude awakening.

But what about Justice League? That movie is shooting soon - like in days or weeks. This is what I'm curious about, as Zack Snyder is directing it. These movies are always under construction - the script changes throughout production, the only things that are written in stone are the big CGI set pieces that are already percolating in some computer somewhere - so will Warner Bros demand changes as they head into production? Or had Snyder gotten all of the angry cynicism out of his system and always intended Justice League to be more upbeat and fun (to be fair the Batman arc of BvS indicates that Snyder was headed in a direction that was less unpleasant and more hopeful)?
Batman v Superman created asshole versions of the titular characters, versions that are hard to like. They may be cool or badass or whatever else, but they're not likeable. I don't want to spend time in a movie hanging out with this version of Superman. He's not charming or interesting. And when he feels bad (which is most of the movie) I don't feel bad for him, I feel irritated by him. BvS brushes up against this concept - Batman and Alfred are very likeable and their interactions are the highlights of the movie - but a film like Justice League needs much more than that. It needs not only characters I enjoy hanging out with, it needs to be putting them together in interesting and unexpected ways. The Marvel movies aren't a hit because of the action or the FX, they're hits because people like the characters and they get excited seeing them talk to each other.

Remember, Zack Snyder made a movie where Superman doesn't speak one word to Wonder Woman. That's what makes me worried about Justice League. The characters don't need to be the Super Friends, hanging out and playing games, but they should have rich and fun interactions. They should bounce off of each other in ways that will surprise and delight us, which is precisely what Snyder didn't do in BvS (in fact the biggest joke coming out of the movie involves the two leads bouncing off of each other in a ridiculous way). These movies can still be serious and philosophically driven (I should use sarcasm quotes on that), but the characters have to be enjoyable. That's the lesson. That's what Warner Bros has to understand as they try to salvage the DC Movierse: fun characters first.
 

ArtHands

Thinks buying more servers can fix a bad patch
I see Suicide Squad as a betrayal to DC's belief as the movie seems to have too much fun. If you want fun movie, go watch those shallow Marvel films.

I dont watch DC films for fun. I watch them for the dark and gritty, deep, though provoking aspects.

I prefer future DC films to be more like BvS. It makes the audience thinks a lot and makes them feel sad (over the fate of a character) after the movie.
 

NumberTwo

Paper or plastic?
I pretty much agree with his overall message. I didn't come away liking any of the characters in BvS. Wonder Woman and Batman had some intense scenes but nothing made me actually want to spend more time with those characters.

Don't even get me started on Superman.

I see Suicide Squad as a betrayal to DC's belief as the movie seems to have too much fun. If you want fun movie, go watch those shallow Marvel films.

I dont watch DC films for fun. I watch them for the dark and gritty, deep, though provoking aspects.

I prefer future DC films to be more like BvS. It makes the audience thinks a lot and makes them feel sad (over the fate of a character) after the movie.
Did I stumble onto the DC Cinematic subreddit?
 
I see Suicide Squad as a betrayal to DC's belief as the movie seems to have too much fun. If you want fun movie, go watch those shallow Marvel films.

I dont watch DC films for fun. I watch them for the dark and gritty, deep, though provoking aspects.

please tell me this is tongue in cheek
 

Dalek

Member
I see Suicide Squad as a betrayal to DC's belief as the movie seems to have too much fun. If you want fun movie, go watch those shallow Marvel films.

I dont watch DC films for fun. I watch them for the dark and gritty, deep, though provoking aspects.

nbPeVJy.gif
 

Moppeh

Banned
I see Suicide Squad as a betrayal to DC's belief as the movie seems to have too much fun. If you want fun movie, go watch those shallow Marvel films.

I dont watch DC films for fun. I watch them for the dark and gritty, deep, though provoking aspects.

Notsureifserious.jpg
 
I see Suicide Squad as a betrayal to DC's belief as the movie seems to have too much fun. If you want fun movie, go watch those shallow Marvel films.

I dont watch DC films for fun. I watch them for the dark and gritty, deep, though provoking aspects.
Well I guess they've kept you waiting for one of those, huh?
 
There seems to be an amazing amount of hate for Faraci on this forum, lol.

I think he's a good writer, eh.

For the longest time my opinions were at odds with his most of the time. So I never really paid any attention to him, but lately I'm finding myself agree with him more often than not. And he is a good writer.
 

WillyFive

Member
So, they (DCU) need more witty one-liners?

Marvels' one liners work because there are likable personalities with known storylines and histories saying them.

Having Snyder's Superman say one is not going to fix his Superman.

I see Suicide Squad as a betrayal to DC's belief as the movie seems to have too much fun. If you want fun movie, go watch those shallow Marvel films.

I dont watch DC films for fun. I watch them for the dark and gritty, deep, though provoking aspects.

I prefer future DC films to be more like BvS. It makes the audience thinks a lot and makes them feel sad (over the fate of a character) after the movie.

Snyder's DC movies are completely devoid of emotion or any thought-provoking material. You are confusing on-paper intent with the actual results.
 

3phemeral

Member
I see Suicide Squad as a betrayal to DC's belief as the movie seems to have too much fun. If you want fun movie, go watch those shallow Marvel films.

I dont watch DC films for fun. I watch them for the dark and gritty, deep, though provoking aspects.

I prefer future DC films to be more like BvS. It makes the audience thinks a lot and makes them feel sad (over the fate of a character) after the movie.

Vu6rcN9.gif
 
1) Too many people mistaking fun for funny here. Nolan's Batfilms were not tonally similar to Avengers, but were fun.

2) I watched Schindler's List yesterday. Probably laughed five times watching it. Five more times than BvS. Some lines, some line deliveries, some beats and cuts... a film (especially a film about two nutjobs in rubber pants) doesn't need to be relentlessly grim, no matter the subject.
 
There are weird bits of narrative he's trying to push here that are irritating beyond the insight he's providing.

Marvel vs. DC: It's not really a thing, much less a "matter of pride."
Cinemascore: It's more or less meaningless.

And yeah, this is like, the 8th (I think it's 8th?) Batman or Superman related article on that site since the film dropped. But then again, it's not like this forum's members aren't maintaining an equivalent amount of attention. 8-10 articles in the space of a week on Batman v. Superman vs. what, 15-16 Batman/Superman threads on OT side? I'm probably being conservative in both accounts.

Anyway, I think the main problem with the article is that it suggests Marvel's success is the default. I understand why it would be the measuring stick here, but it also ignores that there are other people doing this sort of thing at other studios in ways not all that similarly to Marvel, and enjoying success.

Like, say, DEADPOOL, which is the very first comparison drawn in the article.

There's going to be a course correction. WB needs these movies to be viable not so much because they're competing with Marvel, but because they need to fill a hole that won't be readily filled with Tolkien and Rowling going forward. The course they choose needs to be similar, but unique enough to their own studio that it fills a lane audiences can't quite get otherwise.
 

SecretDan

A mudslide of fun!
I see Suicide Squad as a betrayal to DC's belief as the movie seems to have too much fun. If you want fun movie, go watch those shallow Marvel films.

I dont watch DC films for fun. I watch them for the dark and gritty, deep, though provoking aspects.

I prefer future DC films to be more like BvS. It makes the audience thinks a lot and makes them feel sad (over the fate of a character) after the movie.

"Thinks a lot and makes them feel sad"

Christ.
 

gerg

Member
I dont watch DC films for fun. I watch them for the dark and gritty, deep, though provoking aspects.

DC's films sure do keep me thinking about the depth of the philosophy behind "I'm not going to kill you, but I'm not going to save you (from my own actions which will most certainly lead to your death)"!
 

Chariot

Member
1) Too many people mistaking fun for funny here. Nolan's Batfilms were not tonally similar to Avengers, but were fun.

2) I watched Schindler's List yesterday. Probably laughed five times watching it. Five more times than BvS. Some lines, some line deliveries, some beats and cuts... a film (especially a film about two nutjobs in rubber pants) doesn't need to be relentlessly grim, no matter the subject.
You also need to to have contrast. Being moody and broody all the time just gets tiring.
 
If they think the reason Batman v. Superman was horrible was due to lack of fun or light-heartedness, then they are truly clueless.

No doubt. Humor and levity can make bad films more easy to watch tho.

But if this kept the same tone and was a better made film then it would only get nerd criticism but would have still been well received

The tone isnt what hurt it. Snyder and Terrio fucked up. Still it's time we got a superman you can actually like now. I don't care for the guy and that's a damn shame considering how likeable he is in cartoons and donner/singer movies. In here he's duller than a plank of wood
 

D4Danger

Unconfirmed Member
the three other Batman threads currently on the front page about its box office performance not good enough?
 

samn

Member
DC's films sure do keep me thinking about the depth of the philosophy behind "I'm not going to kill you, but I'm not going to save you (from my own actions which will most certainly lead to you death)"!

and ooo Batman's a rich man and some people think rich people bad, but then Batman save people so maybe ooo complex theeeemees
 
I see Suicide Squad as a betrayal to DC's belief as the movie seems to have too much fun. If you want fun movie, go watch those shallow Marvel films.

I dont watch DC films for fun. I watch them for the dark and gritty, deep, though provoking aspects.

I prefer future DC films to be more like BvS. It makes the audience thinks a lot and makes them feel sad (over the fate of a character) after the movie.

Haha. You must seriously be joking.

In anycase... the Marvel films are varied for what they are. You see one and you get a different flavor of a film genre then you get the big action pack blockbuster Avenger films every few years.

So far we've had
Iron Man - An action movie
Thor - A mythological epic
Captain America - A war movie
Iron Man 2 - We don't speak about this one
Avengers - Blockbuster!
Iron Man 3 - A Crime Drama
Winter Solid - A Spy film
Thor 2 - Another Mythological one
Guardians of the Galaxy - A Space Opera
Avengers 2 - Blockbuster!
Ant-Man - A Heist Film
 

Dalek

Member
1) Too many people mistaking fun for funny here. Nolan's Batfilms were not tonally similar to Avengers, but were fun.

1. Great point-those films are indeed a ton of fun. And I loved all the characters, so when it cut away to Gordon or Lucius I didn't care-because I wanted to see what they were up to.
 
Hasn't this dude confessed to have a strong bias against all things DC.

He may have some insights with regards to some ongoings at WB but I can't help but feel he's twisting knowledge to sell a narrative.
 

XAL

Member
I see Suicide Squad as a betrayal to DC's belief as the movie seems to have too much fun. If you want fun movie, go watch those shallow Marvel films.

I dont watch DC films for fun. I watch them for the dark and gritty, deep, though provoking aspects.

I prefer future DC films to be more like BvS. It makes the audience thinks a lot and makes them feel sad (over the fate of a character) after the movie.

giphy__3_.gif
 

btown

Member
I see Suicide Squad as a betrayal to DC's belief as the movie seems to have too much fun. If you want fun movie, go watch those shallow Marvel films.

I dont watch DC films for fun. I watch them for the dark and gritty, deep, though provoking aspects.

I prefer future DC films to be more like BvS. It makes the audience thinks a lot and makes them feel sad (over the fate of a character) after the movie.

How many times did you cry during BvS? More or less than MoS?
 
and ooo Batman's a rich man and some people think rich people bad, but then Batman save people so maybe ooo complex theeeemees

Yeah.

DC can only tap the very interesting Batman so many times before they really run him into the ground.

DC needs to make its other characters compelling like they do with the Marvel heroes. Instead of just compelling on a skin deep level. Like make Wonder Woman amazing not just amazing because she's a strong woman... but a strong woman with personality and a great story to tell.
 

PBY

Banned
I see Suicide Squad as a betrayal to DC's belief as the movie seems to have too much fun. If you want fun movie, go watch those shallow Marvel films.

I dont watch DC films for fun. I watch them for the dark and gritty, deep, though provoking aspects.

I prefer future DC films to be more like BvS. It makes the audience thinks a lot and makes them feel sad (over the fate of a character) after the movie.

This is the GOAT BvS post, not sure we need to discuss anything else about this film. Shut it down.
 
Probably because it's not true. Not that it adds or takes away from the thesis of the article.

No actually, I'm trying to remember, and I don't think Superman talks to WW in the movie at all.

I think the articles right. The most there interaction is occurs in the form of him talking to Bats about her for like 5 seconds.
 
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