It would be easier to have the handheld run with half the GPU ALUs (cores) and clockspeed of the console. With 14nm or 16nm, this should be possible while still keeping the console in range of the Xbone.
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Emily Rogers: NX Not Using x86 Architecture - Won't Blow Away Current Gen Consoles
- Thread starter dancrane212
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It would be easier to have the handheld run with half the GPU ALUs (cores) and clockspeed of the console. With 14nm or 16nm, this should be possible while still keeping the console in range of the Xbone.
It seems more grounded in possible technical reality than the confusing non-assertions Emily keeps posting. This most recent post of hers isn't really even coherent. Xbox ps4 ps4 neo industry leading where is it apples and oranges is all I really got out of her post.
Seven sources vs numerous sources, are they the same sources? Numerous sources sounds a lot more like industry speculation than actual sources to me, but 7 sources saying it is not x86 or polaris sounds more concrete. Note that the seven sources don't actually comment on power levels, and everything else just seems like speculation on her part.
And the first part of her post still corroborates WSJ, who I'm far more inclined to believe than any of the other NX rumors that have thus far come out. Industry leading also points to nvidia somewhat, as they certainly are leading the graphics industry in basically every relevant metric.
"Good reason" for polaris being "wacky" points to nvidia a bit imo.
LordOfChaos
Member
I'm still hope-betting on A72. Noticeably better than PS4/XBOs Jaguar? Check. Not pants blowing for desktop users, or even just not mind blowingly better than Jaguar? Check.
Hmm.. I see a lot of speculation and ideas about Power, absolute power etc.. Then I see a lot of interpretation based on Nintendo behaviour the last decade or so.
That's fine, I'm not going to tell people they are wrong about their ideas etc. But I think the majority of posters who look at these things would do a bit better with an assessment of some of Nintendos core capabilities.
1. When Nintendo learn a hardware lesson - they are likely to try and address it subsequently.
2. Nintendo does not design systems based around a single powerful part (gpu/cpu/co-processor). Nintendo usually attempts a balanced design, within the overall system parameters given, a more holistic approach if you will.
What does the above mean? Well, it means that they are unlikely to pick a super powerful gpu if the system then gets bottlenecked at bus/cpu. It is the same reason that they have selected split ram pools over the last few designs. Split ram pools might inconvenience the people programming for them, but within the overall design parameters (price, power, power draw, size) it allows for a good utilisation of the hardware that is there.
So - don't be surprised if the big N is not willing to put in a larger gpu in a PS4 like construction. Those designs (X1+PS4) are already starved for cpu power more so than gpu.
That's fine, I'm not going to tell people they are wrong about their ideas etc. But I think the majority of posters who look at these things would do a bit better with an assessment of some of Nintendos core capabilities.
1. When Nintendo learn a hardware lesson - they are likely to try and address it subsequently.
2. Nintendo does not design systems based around a single powerful part (gpu/cpu/co-processor). Nintendo usually attempts a balanced design, within the overall system parameters given, a more holistic approach if you will.
What does the above mean? Well, it means that they are unlikely to pick a super powerful gpu if the system then gets bottlenecked at bus/cpu. It is the same reason that they have selected split ram pools over the last few designs. Split ram pools might inconvenience the people programming for them, but within the overall design parameters (price, power, power draw, size) it allows for a good utilisation of the hardware that is there.
So - don't be surprised if the big N is not willing to put in a larger gpu in a PS4 like construction. Those designs (X1+PS4) are already starved for cpu power more so than gpu.
No, her "good reason" was the fact that it's not powerful. She doesn't understand that Polaris scales. She might even just be making an assumption on that front. If she's seriously criticizing people for not knowing that Nintendo went with one of the least likely vendors over the most obvious one, that's make her a bit of an asshole.
Also, I seriously suggest that you look at Charlie's track record. You'll probably find the truth behind it after a while: it's not even a rumor; it's a guess.
Just like when he guessed that "PSP2" would be Tegra-based and made a good case for it. Also, as far as I can tell, he doesn't tend to lock actual news or rumors behind the paywall. Basically, keep your saltshaker handy at all times.
Which people does she criticize? 10k? That's for a good reason if she believes in her sources. So if she would knew about Nvidia, telling 10k that he's spewing false info doesn't make her an asshole.
Also, where does she mention that the "good reason" is the power?
Alex_Mexico
Member
Im growing tired of this year long stretch of endless rumors and speculations. I wish Nintendo would unveil this thing already just so we can speculate over something substantial. Depending on whether Nintendo learned any lessons from the WiiU or not the NX could be a toaster oven that you feed SD cards with SNES game for all we know!
What? Who is she critizing? In no way shape or form does she say that power is the good reason. That's purely your interpretation.
If she doesn't understand that there are different leveled powered chips within a gpu architecture, I don't think she's a very good source for relaying technical information. And that's just based on you thinking she doesn't understand scaling, I have no idea if she does or not. But just saying your interpretation of her post doesn't exactly give her points for being a reliable person to be reporting on technical information from her sources, from your own point of view.
And how is the power level at all "a fact" based on her post, or any other information we (don't) have?
Neff
Member
Agreed. I also feel like we're in a gaming era where talent and publisher cheques are the limit for how good a game looks more than the host technology itself.
Her information is vague. If it is some custom chip based on Polaris - but not actually Polaris, would she be right? This is why rumors without solid information - meaning names of the chip providers, are useless. She says the NX may not be as powerful as X1 in raw power but doesn't give a reason why. Surely the sources would have said "The GPU is weaker" or something like that.
Not saying she is wrong, but she didn't provide any real information.
Tom Nook Sawyer
Member
I find this tweet from Emily odd
I mean, sure, that's a noble quality. But it comes across more as doubt to me. Why even entertain the notion she's wrong unless she's not confident in her information?Perhaps paradoxically, the fact she mentioned she had "7 sources" makes me less inclined to believe what they're telling her. I find it hard to believe that she has 7 sources of note that are willing to tell insider secrets all on the same thing
Maybe I'm off-base, I just find this entire situation weird and offputting
I mean, sure, that's a noble quality. But it comes across more as doubt to me. Why even entertain the notion she's wrong unless she's not confident in her information?Perhaps paradoxically, the fact she mentioned she had "7 sources" makes me less inclined to believe what they're telling her. I find it hard to believe that she has 7 sources of note that are willing to tell insider secrets all on the same thing
Maybe I'm off-base, I just find this entire situation weird and offputting
Theanine3D
Member
That, and Nintendo being both the developer and platform creator means they know the hardware inside out better than anyone else. They can squeeze out every bit of performance out of it that is possible, even if the hardware is slightly weaker than competitors, as opposed to third parties that can take years to learn all the performance tricks to maximizing the hardware.
Wii U's only visual downfall was being a primarily 720p system. The models and textures underneath all those jaggies were really high-quality. I have no doubt in my mind NX will do a better job at letting those assets shine than the Wii U did.
Wowfunhappy
Member
This certainly isn't completely true. Console games still look a lot better on PC, and you often see people on neogaf bemoaning the fact that game X doesn't run at 1080p and/or 60fps (rendering resolution and framerate has next to no relation on budget).
But I certainly agree with the core point that Nintendo games already look great on the Wii U. Heck, they looked great on the Wii, at least if you disregard all the aliasing.
To be honest, I don't even really mind that. They have some sort of really good upscaler going on. I'm admittedly less sensitive to sub-native rendering than some people are, but I remember correcting a friend a while back that his new copy of Mario Kart 8 was only rendering at 720p, and he was incredulous.
Person has one source, person or specific people within in a group, this makes sense to me. Case in point, Trev (SuperMetalDave) with that big NOA marketing leak.
Person has multiple sources, spanning all sorts of separate compartmentalized sections of a company or industry, that is FISHY. Case in point, Emily Rogers. Every two weeks we have a new big rumor from a completely different aspect of Nintendo. Localization, Japanese in-house development, Hardware development.How?
Neff
Member
You're right, but I find that the disparity in tech between platforms tends to amount to performance-based improvements rather than those pertaining to assets such as superior models and textures, and less so between consoles.
I'm sure Nintendo's exclusive titles for NX will look very, very impressive indeed.
Theanine3D
Member
I'm unfortunately very sensitive to it. After years of playing PC games exclusively at 1080p (and never owning a 360/PS3), games like Pikmin 3 felt dated on the first day I played them. It was a gorgeous game atmospherically, but the aliasing was horrific. It ended up being my favorite game on the console - and still is - but I lament that it wasn't given a proper chance to shine because of the hardware.
As I've said in a previous post, Nintendo was already able to get Smash Bros to run at 1080p/60fps on Wii U. Much newer hardware should have no problem running the likes of Mario 3D World (a much slower, less intense game) at 1080p. Nintendo would have to actively be trying to sabotage their console business for that to not that happen.
MatrixMan.EXE
Member
You're right imo. If you look at a game like Uncharted 4, the asset quality and sheer attention to detail in the environments is rare even for a lot of PC games. That comes down strictly to the talent and the budget that Naughty Dog are afforded.
RandyRaceCar
Banned
So this doesn't give third parties incentives at all just like the Wii U. if this is true.
Neff
Member
Yup. I might not like Uncharted, but holy shit does 4 look good.
Gamer @ Heart
Member
It's really easy to port from x86 to ARM.
If ports don't come, it will be a business decision, not a technical one.
She did provide at least that it's not a X86 and that it's not Polaris. You can chose to believe it or not, but that's a clear info. Also, it's kind of the best info we have from someone who was proven right before and didn't make any outrageous claims.
What you (and others) want is more explanations because this info hit your expectations. Which I can understand too, but it's not really Emily to blame for that.
ARM is a far more prolific architecture than PPC. It will negatively impact nothing.
blu
Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
Uh huh.
Now here's one x86 console that gives developers all incentives and will take the world by storm.
Somebody actually asked the WSJ guy why he talked about industry leading chips, and his response was that he had seen a demo, that would only run on a high end PC. I think it may have been Trev that asked the guy, but i'm not sure anymore.
That contradicts the Emily post at face value... unless -as i stated before- she does not know how to interpret the info she's been given while being vague on top of it. Talking about "raw power" and not about "performance", using vague statements about "closer to XBO than PS4"... which to my logical brain means in between both. Not smaller than both. If she meant smaller than both, surely she would have said so?
If you are to describe the relationship of the number 4 to the numbers 5 and 9, you wouldn't say it's closer to 5 than it is to 9, you would say it is smaller than both (or smaller than 5, which automatically implies also smaller than 9). Because also 6 and 3 are closer to 5 than to 9. As well as 1 and 2. So in that case, you would be intentionally unclear.
No, she's posting vague statements fuelling off the wall speculation even further. "Raw power closer to XBO than PS4 and even that's pushing it"... WTF does that mean? "You can't compare apples to orranges..." THEN DON'T!!!!
Nobody cares about "raw power", we care about performance. That's what we (and 3rd parties) will want to know. How Nintendo gets there, is of little importance.
The best, most clear info we've got so far, is that of LCgeek.
RandyRaceCar
Banned
Why would devs work on a console that is around the same level at the ones we currently have instead of building onto the current ones (and the 4k versions coming up?)
Ports don't mean anything either, Wii U had good porting abilities.
No, it's not that. It's that she's being intentionally vague and clearly withholding information for later, such as why Polaris is "wacky" (though I still think that she's basing that entirely on the performance level and therefore could still be very wrong). I just get the feeling that she's doing this partially for attention, and that kinda pisses me off.
Because he's reading it as "closer to Xbone than PS4," while you're reading it as "close to Xbone, rather than PS4."
Him: Xbone < NX <<<< PS4
You: NX < Xbone <<<<< PS4
Both of these are correct interpretations of what she said, which is why it's considered vague or poorly written.
I explained why.
That's a much different question than the impact of the CPU architecture. And it all boils down to one thing: the market. It doesn't matter if the NX console has the best CPU compared to the PS4/XBO (which it very easily could) and a beefier GPU than the PS4. If it makes business sense to make games for it, that is the impetus. Business sense being that the machine easily runs the games devs want to make, without a lot of trouble, and the games sell.
The hardware performance wankfest is mostly irrelevant.
And the Wii U wasn't great for ports. The CPUs in the PS3/360 were fairly beefy in comparison to their GPUs. Plenty of the games there were CPU-heavy (especially PS3). That definitely didn't translate well to the Wii U, which had a comparatively weaker CPU vs its GPU.
TheGreatMightyPoo
Banned
It's as if people keep not reading the thread...
As usual. People don't even read the first post and can barely be bothered to even read even the headline
You could also, you know, not give her attention if you believe that she does something out of bad intentions or something. And yet here you are bad mouthing her again and again. Without any actual proof against her other than the complain that she's vague with her info. Yet you refuse to accept any info. What would more precise info change for you. It's not like you would accept it or like her anyhow.
Theanine3D
Member
Emily's really the last leaker who would do something for attention. She deleted her previous twitter specifically because she was getting too much. Out of all the leakers I've seen she's been the most modest (and accurate). She's also never earned a cent of money from any of her leaks. She doesn't have a YouTube or an ad-filled blog that earns her money from her info, unlike Trev and that Unseen64 guy. She's as genuine as it gets.
I'm really curious why you have an axe to grind with her. What did she honestly do to you?
Like i already explained in the past, i have no issues with her personally. Unlike Muchomalo i don't necessarilly think she does it to get attention, or out of arrogance. But it does annoy the hell out of me, when she "intends" to set the record straight, yet makes the situation worse due to herself not fully understanding (i think) what the implications of her posts are. I can ignore her posts, but i can't ignore the countless topics and posts that spring from her statements here on gaf. The best examples that spring to mind are her "raw power" comparisson with the XBO/PS4 which still has people unclear whether she meant below XBO or between XBO and PS4, and the way she chose to debunk the AMD mixup myth... giving many people the impression that the chip would be 28nm as a result.
She has a really condescending attitude at times and seems to rag on people for not believing something she feels is obvious. Beyond that, I'm not doubting her info any more than what's fair. It's that she, and every other leaker for that matter, should just say what she means instead of speaking in riddles, and then if anyone asks her to clarify she usually just ignores them. Then she gets annoyed with wild speculation, while leaving the door open to it by withholding information she's confident in. Sorry, but she's still the exact same person she was 5 years ago, no matter what she says. She just has better sources than she had back then.
Perhaps I'm just taking my frustration with leakers in general out on her, or perhaps I feel that she insulted "me" (or rather, people who think like me) for logical reasoning just because it didn't fit with what she heard. Whatever the case is, she does not seem even a little bit modest to me. That said, I'm still saying that I believe her 80%, which is about the highest I'll believe any leak.
Not to mention the fact that there was most likely a lie in there somewhere (either from her or a source) since very few people would have access to that information at this point. Also, I'm pretty sure that she was trying to say that it's 28nm, to be fair.
Though, the irony is that that statement could also technically rule out 28nm completely.
Sunk cost fallacy on Nintendo's part. They must have paid IBM a mint for Gekko so they milked that investment for generations until it bit them in the ass. They're also strapped for software so generational transitions can kill them if the new hardware takes long to learn because it's too different. It doesn't mean Nintendo likes weak hardware.
Purple lunchbox? Must be weak.
Spyder_Monkey
Banned
Y'll are going to get a Tegra X1 Nintendo first party box and like it dammit.
You mean 10 years. What is with this revisionist history concerning GameCube?
Cause even a few months out specs can change either in small amounts or sku completely as it happened with Wii.
Nvidia being involved should make people wonder.
But a completely different source reported on the Nvidia thing, not Emily.
Tom Nook Sawyer
Member
Sure, but that has nothing to do with her being wrong or "human" as she says. She's reporting the facts as she hears them; if it's true now, that's all she needs to be concerned about
MatrixMan.EXE
Member
I'm also of the opinion that if you're going to be leaking things in such a public way, you should be extremely clear about things like Shinobi, Verendus, Kotaku etc.
The moment you start speaking in riddles, stupidly vague comments and the like is when you start to piss me off, personally. It just screams of attention seeking, and adds absolutely nothing to the discussion, often even derailing it as we've seen in here (sorry for earlier, guys).
Be specific with your information or don't share it at all. Shit is annoying.
The moment you start speaking in riddles, stupidly vague comments and the like is when you start to piss me off, personally. It just screams of attention seeking, and adds absolutely nothing to the discussion, often even derailing it as we've seen in here (sorry for earlier, guys).
Be specific with your information or don't share it at all. Shit is annoying.
The same could be said of Trev. He heard about the NX Platform launching this year, now it got pushed back to March 2017.
cartographer
Member
Be vague enough and you don't say anything really. If you don't say anything, then you can't be wrong about anything.
She is literally the epitome of "I know something you don't know." Any time I hear someone talk about "my sources" it just reeks of self-importance. The melodrama about being on Twitter and not being on Twitter, being public or private or public or private, starting and deleting blogs, announcements of hiatuses and whatnot... it all just reeks of attention seeking.
I do genuinely believe now she has found herself in a position of knowledge. Why she doesn't use that position to make a living rather than sit at a laptop tweeting vague hints is beyond me. It's just frustrating how she approaches all of this, like it's a game to her.
tiredheadcrab
Member
The heat in this thread is interesting.
I like Emily and while she may have a lot to learn like someone from kotaku or any other outlet and it's understandable why she is being vague as these things change or maybe the source isn't being clear on the chips in question.
The drama surrounding it is silly and I do feel a bit sorry for her.
I like Emily and while she may have a lot to learn like someone from kotaku or any other outlet and it's understandable why she is being vague as these things change or maybe the source isn't being clear on the chips in question.
The drama surrounding it is silly and I do feel a bit sorry for her.
At this point she should just keep the info to herself.
MatrixMan.EXE
Member
True enough. Which is why she just shouldn't say anything until she's researched the information further.
My feels exactly.
If the source isn't clear, don't share the information. Someone who knows what they're doing would wait until they can vet their information across several sources, rather than rushing to Twitter to throw out vague hints that could amount to nothing.
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