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[GamerJM]

(consoles, that is; I didn't have enough room to specify in the topic title that most people agree that Nintendo handhelds have their fair share of good games. )

In so many topics whenever the subject of third-party games in regards to Nintendo consoles comes up there's always several people saying "Who cares, who buys Nintendo consoles for third-party games? Nintendo consoles have been machines for first-party games since the N64," or something along those lines. I have never purchased a Nintendo console with the intent of primarily playing third-party games. That being said, I always end up getting at least several third-party games for Nintendo consoles. They help pad the release schedules and make the consoles feel like a more worthwhile purchase. This is why I'm starting to get annoyed with how frequently a lot of people just kind of dismiss third-party games on Nintendo consoles entirely. I think third-parties are, have been, and will continue to be an important part of Nintendo consoles.

Let's at a look at every third-party game that scored above an 80% on Gamerankings on the N64, Gamecube, Wii, and Wii U. I understand that this is an incredibly arbitrary way to decide which games are or aren't worthwhile or "quality," but I couldn't think of a better way to do this, and from what I've seen most games that garner an 80% on GR at least have a sizable amount of people that like them. Exclusives (within the console generation, so timed exclusives like RE4 don't count but something like Resident Evil Remake does) bolded, download-only titles italicized. I'm also not including games that Nintendo co-published, like Bayonetta 2, or Final Fantasy: Crystal Chronicles.

N64:
Tony Hawk's Pro Skater
NFL Blitz
International Superstar Soccer 64
Beetle Adventure Racing
Turok 2: Seeds of Evil
Rayman 2: The Great Escape
All-Star Baseball 2000
Madden NFL 99
Resident Evil 2
All-Star Baseball 2001
WipeOut 64
All-Star Baseball 99
Ogre Battle 64: Person of Lordly Caliber
Turok: Dinosaur Hunter
WWF No Mercy
WWF War Zone
Space Station Silicon Valley
World Cup 98
Madden NFL 2001
WWF Wrestlemania 2000
Star Wars: Rogue Squadron
Harvest Moon 64
NHL 99
NFL Blitz 2000
Extreme-G
Worms Armageddon
WCW/NWO Revenge
Vigilante 8
FIFA 99
San Francisco Rush: Extreme Racing
Spider-Man
Rocket: Robot on Wheels
Star Wars: Episode I Battle for Naboo
Quake II
007: The World is Not Enough

Gamecube:
Resident Evil 4
SoulCalibur II
Prince of Persia: The Sands of Time
SSX 3
Madden NFL 2004
Viewtiful Joe
Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 3
NCAA Football 2003
Tiger Woods PGA Tour 2003
NBA 2K2
Madden NFL 2003
NCAA Football 2004
Madden NFL 2002
Star Wars Rogue Leader: Rogue Squadron II
Madden NFL 2005
Resident Evil
Tiger Woods PGA Tour 2004
NFL 2K3
Burnout 2: Point of Impact
Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 4
NBA Street Vol. 2
TimeSplitters 2
Super Monkey Ball
Beyond Good & Evil
NCAA Football 2005
NBA Street V3
Tiger Woods PGA Tour 2005
NASCAR 2005: Chase for the Cup
MVP Baseball 2005
MVP Baseball 2004
SSX Tricky
Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell
Aggressive Inline
Tony Hawk's Underground
Fight Night Round 2
Super Monkey Ball 2
NHL 2K3
Viewtiful Joe 2
The Sims
Metal Gear Solid: The Twin Snakes
Ikaruga
Tales of Symphonia
TimeSplitters: Future Perfect
Skies of Arcadia Legends
Prince of Persia: The Two Thrones
NBA Street
Prince of Persia: Warrior Within
NASCAR Thunder 2003
Def Jam: Fight for NY
James Bond 007: Everything or Nothing
Metal Arms: Glitch in the System
Resident Evil 0
The Incredible Hulk: Ultimate Destruction
The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King
NBA 2K3
Tony Hawk's Underground 2
NHL 2004
Need for Speed Underground
FIFA Soccer 2004
Harvest Moon: Magical Melody
LEGO Star Wars II: The Original Trilogy
Def Jam Vendetta
Freedom Fighters
Hitman 2: Silent Assassin
Madden NFL 06
NCAA College Basketball 2K3
NBA Live 2004
NBA Live 2003
NFL Street
Mega Man Anniversary Collection
Sega Soccer Slam
All-Star Baseball 2003
NHL Hitz 20-03
Madden NFL 07
X-Men Legends
007: NightFire
NHL Hitz Pro
Mortal Kombat: Deadly Alliance
Phantasy Star Online Episode I & II
SSX On Tour
Alien Hominid
FIFA Soccer 2003
Knockout Kings 2003
Baten Kaitos: Eternal Wings and the Lost Ocean
NHL Hitz 20-02
Karaoke Revolution Party
Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory
FIFA Soccer 2005
X-Men Legends II: Rise of Apocalypse
Tiger Woods PGA Tour 06
The Sims Bustin' Out
NFL Street 2
NBA Live 2005
Peter Jackson's King Kong: The Official Game of the Movie
FIFA Soccer 2002
Second Sight
FIFA Soccer 06
The Simpsons: Hit & Run
Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell: Pandora Tomorrow
Harvest Moon: A Wonderful Life
Spider-Man 2

Wii:
World of Goo
Resident Evil 4
Rayman Origins
Cave Story
Okami
The Beatles: Rock Band
Guitar Hero 5
Tiger Woods PGA Tour 10
DJ Hero 2
Boom Blox Bash Party
Guitar Hero World Tour
Guitar Hero III: Legends of Rock
Tatsunoko vs. Capcom: Ultimate All-Stars
Zack & Wiki: Quest for Barbaros' Treasure
DJ Hero
Little King's Story
Pro Evolution Soccer 2009
And Yet It Moves
LostWinds: Winter of the Melodias
Monster Hunter Tri
Tiger Woods PGA Tour 11
Boom Blox
Strong Bad's Cool Game for Attractive People
BIT.TRIP COMPLETE
Guitar Hero: Metallica
No More Heroes 2: Desperate Struggle
Mega Man 9
Dead Space: Extraction
Pinball Hall of Fame: The Williams Collection
Swords & Soldiers
GoldenEye 007
Pro Evolution Soccer 2008
Call of Duty: World at War
EA Sports Active
Tetris Party
MadWorld
Mega Man 10
Bully: Scholarship Edition
No More Heroes
MotoHeroz
Rage of the Gladiator
Muramasa: The Demon Blade
A Boy and His Blob
Madden NFL 09 (All-Play)
Dawn of Discovery
Call of Duty: Black Ops
MLB Power Pros
Tiger Woods PGA Tour 09 (All-Play)
NyxQuest: Kindred Spirits
de Blob
Klonoa
Castlevania: The Adventure ReBirth
The House of the Dead: Overkill
EA Sports Active More Workouts
LostWinds
Trauma Team
Trauma Center: Second Opinion
Geometry Wars: Galaxies
Tales of Monkey Island
Red Steel 2
LEGO Star Wars: The Complete Saga
Madden NFL 07
MLB Power Pros 2008
Band Hero
Skylanders: Spyro's Adventure
Toki Tori
Rock Band
Guitar Hero: Warriors of Rock
NBA Jam

Wii U:
Rayman Legends
Shovel Knight
Deus Ex: Human Revolution
Bit.Trip Presents...Runner2: Future Legend of Rhythm Alien
Skylanders SuperChargers
Need for Speed: Most Wanted
Trine 2
Mass Effect 3
Call of Duty: Black Ops II
SteamWorld Dig
Darksiders II
Batman: Arkham City
Stealth Inc 2: A Game of Clones
Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate
Tekken Tag Tournament 2
Assassin's Creed III
Runbow
Mighty Switch Force!
Stick it to the Man!
Little Inferno
FAST Racing NEO
Adventures of Pip
Chariot
Scram Kitty and His Buddy on Rails
Teslagrad
Affordable Space Adventures

What I got out of doing this is that there are a significant number of quality third-party games on Nintendo consoles. I also got that the N64 and Wii U were significantly less well-supported than the Wii and especially Gamecube, though the Gamecube was more padded by multiplats and sports games than any of the other consoles. I also feel like it's worth noting that the N64 list might not be as comprehensive as the others since there weren't as many review publications back then so some games may have just slipped through the 10 required reviews I set, though idk.

Now, it's worth noting that these lists are padded by a lot of sports games in general. This does make them longer than they would be otherwise, and a lot of people reading this likely don't care about sports games, but even if you take them out they're still rather significant. Also, I think they're important to keep in since sports games are a significant part of the gaming ecosystem in general. And I know that for me personally, NFL Blitz and the WWF games are games that help define how I see the N64.

So, what do you think? I understand why a lot of people don't care about Nintendo systems for third-party games, since they're happy with the bevvy of third-party titles offered on other consoles, but I just wanted to demonstrate why some might care about them on Nintendo platforms.

 

[z0m3le]

We need to dispel the notion that Nintendo is capable of getting back third-parties.

They need to offer us a compelling platform on their own, when enough of us have bought the platform, third parties will come back. When Nintendo tells third-parties that they can't release on NX, that is when we can have these sort of talks.

Nintendo has to focus on a single platform, they have to put all their development teams to work on offering us all their best work, not sacrificing one platform to hold up another, if they go this route again, they would be better off not releasing multiple devices at all.

 

[-shadow-]

I honestly think most here think that Nintendo has to have 3rd party support for the NX or it simply DOA. People do buy a Nintendo console for their games, but there has to be more. Simple as that.

 

[Soulflarz]

The idea is that most of the third party Nintendo games aren't selling their consoles. This trend is only increasing. It also has to do with things like the fact that this generation there are more third party games on other consoles that are AAA vs that entire list you just posted, which has many indies. In comparison, Nintendo is suffering.

To give a good example- people will buy a console for the new COD/Battlefield
The masses aren't buying a Nintendo console for say, No More Heroes 2 (or, a more modern example, Fast Racing Neo).

TL;DR People say third party is dead because no one buys Nintendo consoles for third party games while Sony can sit back lazily and have every publisher out there sell their console for them.

 

[Bennicus]

Ninten-who?

 

[neurosisxeno]

So, what do you think? I understand why a lot of people don't care about Nintendo systems for third-party games, since they're happy with the bevvy of third-party titles offered on other consoles, but I just wanted to demonstrate why some might care about them on Nintendo platforms.

It's important to note that while GAF members might not care about Third Party titles on Nintendo Consoles, the average consumer definitely factors it into their purchasing decision.

People do buy a Nintendo console for their games, but there has to be more.

The Wii U still sold, just terribly.

 

[Piichan]

I can't be the only one who read the thread title in Little Marco's voice.

 

[Bots are better than you]

Whoever really thinks that Nintendo doesn't need 3rd party games, is, imo, just wrong. I say this as a Nintendo fan first and foremost, but still happen to have all consoles, just not to miss out any (to me) interesting games.

 

[Phediuk]

Didn't Nintendo by themselves account for 41% of all Wii game sales?

And that was on one of their successful consoles.

 

[Ushojax]

Whoever really thinks that Nintendo doesn't need 3rd party games, is, imo, just wrong. I say this as a Nintendo fan first and foremost, but still happen to have all consoles, just not to miss out any (to me) interesting games.

The issue is that third parties do not need Nintendo, there is a very small audience for 'mature' AAA games on Nintendo platforms at this point in time, one that isn't worth spending big money chasing.

It's up to Nintendo to show publishers that NX will have a healthy audience for different types of software beyond Nintendo's own offerings. They managed to do that with the Wii but even then third parties did not take it seriously as a platform, it is still very tough to compete against Nintendo's first party games. The average consumer does not buy that many games in a year, convincing them to buy Call of Duty instead of Zelda will always be difficult.

The biggest third party successes for Nintendo in recent years have been indie games on the eShop, but most of them are what you would call Nintendo-like games. I think it will be a few years before western publishers start looking seriously at Nintendo platforms again and that's only if NX becomes a real success with a thriving software market. It basically has to be such a success that it would be stupid not to support the platform properly.

 

[AgeEighty]

Are there really many people who think this?

I mean, if there is one thing the Wii U proves definitively, it's that Nintendo's first party output is not enough all on its own to sell a console. It's the first one of their consoles to flop, and the first one to have next to no third party support.

I hope they're going after third parties with NX, but more and more I'm thinking they're going to be banking on the increased first party output from merging their console and portable divisions. and their approach to third parties will once again be "If they come along for the ride, great, if not, it's their loss" as it has been for a few generations.

Thing is, while Nintendo's success with the NES owed hugely to Mario, Zelda and the rest, there was one refrain that parents heard in the '80s while comparison shopping for their kids: "Nintendo has the most games." People always go where the most games are. And without third party support the perception will always be that if you buy only a Nintendo console you'll be missing out. So I hope I'm wrong and that they produce a machine that's easy to port to.

 

[Hoo-doo]

Thanks, Marco Rubio.

 

[Bots are better than you]

The issue is that third parties do not need Nintendo, there is a very small audience for 'mature' AAA games on Nintendo platforms at this point in time, one that isn't worth spending big money chasing.

It's up to Nintendo to show publishers that NX will have a healthy audience for different types of software beyond Nintendo's own offerings. They managed to do that with the Wii but even then third parties did not take it seriously as a platform, it is still very tough to compete against Nintendo's first party games. The average consumer does not buy that many games in a year, convincing them to buy Call of Duty instead of Zelda will always be difficult.

The biggest third party successes for Nintendo in recent years have been indie games on the eShop, they have found some success but most of them are what you would call Nintendo-like games. I think it will be a few years before western publishers start looking seriously at Nintendo platforms again and that's only if NX becomes a real success.

I still believe that even among Nintendos usual userbase, those 3rd party IPs with the biggest mainstream appeal could do ok, not great, but ok. And those IPs aren't necessarily mature ones, see Lego Whatever, or EA Sports, these are really important to have.

Of course, there are a few requirements to be matched, Nintendo being in a certain range of hardware power and having a solid enviroment, tools and most importantly engine support, simply to not make porting a drag. And of course, the games need to have parity to the other versions in terms of features, content, performance and price.

As a first step with NX, Nintendo has to show former Nintendo fans, that they are a viable solution for those who just want to have certain 3rd party IPs present. Basically, making the "Nintendo userbase" return to a healthier level. And really, you need 3rd party games, among other things like a steady flow of games, for that.

 

[GamerJM]

The issue is that third parties do not need Nintendo, there is a very small audience for 'mature' AAA games on Nintendo platforms at this point in time, one that isn't worth spending big money chasing.

It's up to Nintendo to show publishers that NX will have a healthy audience for different types of software beyond Nintendo's own offerings. They managed to do that with the Wii but even then third parties did not take it seriously as a platform, it is still very tough to compete against Nintendo's first party games. The average consumer does not buy that many games in a year, convincing them to buy Call of Duty instead of Zelda will always be difficult.

The biggest third party successes for Nintendo in recent years have been indie games on the eShop, but most of them are what you would call Nintendo-like games. I think it will be a few years before western publishers start looking seriously at Nintendo platforms again and that's only if NX becomes a real success with a thriving software market. It basically has to be such a success that it would be stupid not to support the platform properly.

Part of what I wanted to demonstrate with this list is that I think there's an audience for non-'mature' AAA games on a theoretically more successful Nintendo console, if Nintendo is able to expand its base. I mean, look at the list of Wii games there, a lot of those games are types of games that just straight up aren't really being made right now, since they're nowhere near "AAA," or "indie".

 

[OnimaruXLR]

I think it's safe to say that they don't matter past Gamecube, though

Although I did like Madworld and No More Heroes

Indies are a different kettle of fish, though. I've got a decent handful of indie stuff on 3DS, with Shovel Knight as the exemplar.

 

[Dio]

I know that every time I buy a Nintendo system the majority of the games I buy for it are third party, so the less they make of those the less likely I'll get one.

I bought a Wii and had Muramasa and Sin & Punishment Star Successor, and my DS was used for Etrian Odyssey 1-3, Chrono Trigger, SMT Strange Journey and Ghost Trick. In fact, with every Nintendo system I buy the first/second party titles are actually the minority of the library.

In that sense, if they stop having 3rd party titles I most likely won't buy the system. Hell, I didn't even buy a WiiU yet and that has a few good third party titles but not ones I'd buy a system for.

 

[Kouriozan]

Yes, it matters a lot, unfortunately, while the Wii sold a lot, a lot of 3rd parties complained that "Nintendo fans only buy Nintendo games", then on Wii U, Ubisoft bailed out because their last games sold 5k worldwide.
At this point, it's going to take decades for Nintendo to heal the scars.

 

[SomedayTheFire]

TL;DR People say third party is dead because no one buys Nintendo consoles for third party games while Sony can sit back lazily and have every publisher out there sell their console for them.

that's some strange and wrong wording.

 

[SPCTRE]

Nintendo has to focus on a single platform

You think they should get out of handhelds?

 

[KingSnake]

Wii U:
Rayman Legends
Shovel Knight
Deus Ex: Human Revolution
Bit.Trip Presents...Runner2: Future Legend of Rhythm Alien
Skylanders SuperChargers
Need for Speed: Most Wanted
Trine 2
Mass Effect 3
Call of Duty: Black Ops II
SteamWorld Dig
Darksiders II
Batman: Arkham City
Stealth Inc 2: A Game of Clones
Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate
Tekken Tag Tournament 2
Assassin's Creed III
Runbow
Mighty Switch Force!
Stick it to the Man!
Little Inferno
FAST Racing NEO
Adventures of Pip
Chariot
Scram Kitty and His Buddy on Rails
Teslagrad
Affordable Space Adventures

How many of these sold even to 1% of the Wii U's install base? The answer to that question shows you the dimension of the issue that Nintendo has with the 3rd parties.

 

[AgeEighty]

Yes, it matters a lot, unfortunately, while the Wii sold a lot, a lot of 3rd parties complained that "Nintendo fans only buy Nintendo games", then on Wii U, Ubisoft bailed out because their last games sold 5k worldwide.
At this point, it's going to take decades for Nintendo to heal the scars.

There are no "scars". People think about this stuff far too much in terms of individual human relationships and not in terms of business ones. In the business world this stuff can turn around in a hurry.

The NX needs to do two things: 1) It needs to have a cool factor that gets a good sized initial buy-in from consumers. 2) It needs to not throw up technical hurdles against porting games that use popular engines, whether that's the raw power of the console or the difficultiy of programming for it.

If it does both, it will get support from third parties notably better than what Wii U got. It won't get the support Sony and Microsoft get—at least not right away—but it's ridiculous to think it would take "decades". With margins as razor thin as they are for game publishers these days, they will support any machine they think they can turn a profit on. They don't nurse grudges.

Nintendo just has to be interested in making a machine that provides a clear path to profit for games made for it, and whether or not they are is the big question with NX.

 

[KingSnake]

If it does both, it will get support from third parties notably better than what Wii U got.

No, it won't unless it does something to improve the attach rates of the 3rd party games.

 

[AgeEighty]

No, it won't unless it does something to improve the attach rates of the 3rd party games.

Having a machine that can handle modern engines and graphics will accomplish that.

The reason third party games don't sell on Nintendo consoles isn't because Nintendo fans aren't interested in those games, it's because they buy them for other consoles because they don't want watered-down versions of them. But when Nintendo delivers a console that can't keep up tech-wise, watered-down versions are precisely what they get.

 

[cireza]

I have a Wii U and did not buy a single game from OP's list.

But I did buy Sonic Lost World and Ninja Gaiden 3 Razor Edge.

 

[KingSnake]

Having a machine that can handle modern engines and graphics will accomplish that.

The reason third party games don't sell on Nintendo consoles isn't because Nintendo fans aren't interested in those games, it's because they buy them for other consoles because they don't want watered-down versions of them. But when Nintendo delivers a console that can't keep up tech-wise, watered-down versions are precisely what they get.

Yeah, those very quality aware gamers that play only on Nintendo consoles.

How do the third party games sell so well on Xbone though?

How can the PS4 players play their version of 3rd party games which is worse than the PC one?

Plus look up to that list, there are games exclusive to Wii U or that have the better version of the game on Wii U which didn't sell to 1% to the install base.

 

[Serviam]

I had forgotten that Beetle Adventure Racing existed. Loved that game. Need to get it again for the collection. Thanks OP!

 

[AgeEighty]

Yeah, those very quality aware gamers that play only on Nintendo consoles.

There are very few people out there who play on only Nintendo consoles these days. Most Wii U owners also own a PS4 or an Xbox One. It was the same with Wii. They don't do this because they just love paying for more than one console; they do it because they want the games Nintendo isn't getting, or isn't getting decent versions of.

Plus look up to that list, there are games exclusive to Wii U or that have the better version of the game on Wii U which didn't sell to 1% to the install base.

Name me a third party game on Wii U that was a "better version" that hadn't come out on other consoles way earlier. Of course something like Arkham City (for example) is going to sell poorly on Wii U when everyone already played it on 360 or PS3 more than a year before. Porting that older game was a bad decision regardless of the Wii U's install base. Same with Mass Effect 3; what the hell is the point when you can't play the first two games there and carry your save over, and when the game came out on other consoles more than six months earlier?

Nintendo fans are well represented here on GAF; how many of them have you met who never play anything but Nintendo games?

 

[KingSnake]

There are very few people out there who play on only Nintendo consoles these days. Most Wii U owners also own a PS4 or an Xbox One. It was the same with Wii. They don't do this because they just love paying for more than one console; they do it because they want the games Nintendo isn't getting, or isn't getting decent versions of.

So 99% of Wii U owners own another console? I hope you have a source to back this up.

I'm not touching the goalpost moving in the second paragraph. Also I don't stalk the other Nintendo fans to see what they play. We don't need anecdotal evidence, we have sales data. Or rather "no sales" data.

 

[AgeEighty]

So 99% of Wii U owners own another console? I hope you have a source to back this up.

I'm not touching the goalpost moving in the second paragraph.

I don't think you know what goalpost moving is, unless you can explain where I established a goalpost to begin with. It seems more like you just don't have a counterpoint to make.

Out of whose ass did you pull the 99% figure? This is something you should be able to figure out just by paying attention on GAF: take a look at any thread about a Nintendo game, look at the people who are playing it and search their recent posts to see what other game threads they're posting in. I guarantee you will find non-Nintendo games in most cases.

 

[KingSnake]

I don't think you know what goalpost moving is, unless you can explain where I established a goalpost to begin with. It seems more like you just don't have a counterpoint to make.

Out of whose ass did you pull the 99% figure?

Maybe you need to pay attention more to the discussion then: Most of the 3rd party games on that list didn't sell even to 1% of the install base.

Also, let's address the delay "reason". A good part of the games at the launch of PS4 and Xbone were already launched on the other systems previously. That didn't stop them from selling very well. Now I wait for the next goalpost move.

Again, replacing sales data with anecdotal evidence is pointless.

 

[Memory]

There are literally 5 people on the whole of neogaf who would argue this point, your preaching to the choir. This will only result in another fuck Nintendo thread.

 

[Ban Puncher]

 

[GamerJM]

This will only result in another fuck Nintendo thread.

Part of the intention was the opposite since I was hoping this would open peoples' eyes to how many decently received third-party games on Nintendo consoles there actually have been .

 

[Ninja Dom]

I said this in another thread but I'll repeat:

Wii U launched with:

Latest FIFA
Latest COD
Latest Assassins Creed
Latest Musou
Batman Arkham game
Darksiders 2
Ninja Gaiden 3 Razors Edge
Tekken Tag Tournament
Sonic All Stars Racing
Mass Effect game

Didn't help it at all with third party titles in the future.

 

[kitsuneyo]

We need to dispel the notion that Nintendo is capable of getting back third-parties.

They need to offer us a compelling platform on their own, when enough of us have bought the platform, third parties will come back. When Nintendo tells third-parties that they can't release on NX, that is when we can have these sort of talks.

Nintendo has to focus on a single platform, they have to put all their development teams to work on offering us all their best work, not sacrificing one platform to hold up another, if they go this route again, they would be better off not releasing multiple devices at all.

Pretty good post, but it's a chicken and egg scenario. Hard for Nintendo to build that compelling platform that enough of us buy without third-part support.

 

[Ninja Dom]

Pretty good post, but it's a chicken and egg scenario. Hard for Nintendo to build that compelling platform that enough of us buy without third-part support.

This is true. There are too many other gamers where Nintendo games alone are not important to them. Think of any casual gaming friend or work colleague you know with a PS4.

 

[Unknown One]

There are literally 5 people on the whole of neogaf who would argue this point, your preaching to the choir. This will only result in another fuck Nintendo thread.

There is more, but man are these fans loud. I find them to be closed minded and extremely insuler. They might not need 3rd parties, but Nintendo does. I don't even know why some argue to have even less games to play.

 

[Ninja Dom]

Interesting fact. The Nintendo Famicom (NES) survived it's entire first year of release in Japan without a single third party game. It was a huge success.

This was 1983/1984 though.

 

[Aters]

They need to offer us a compelling platform on their own, when enough of us have bought the platform, third parties will come back. When Nintendo tells third-parties that they can't release on NX, that is when we can have these sort of talks.

Completely disagree. Wii sold like hot cake yet 3rd party support was poor.
They need to talk to 3rd parties when they are designing their console instead of throwing out some random gimmicks expecting 3rd parties to know how to use them.

 

[AgeEighty]

Maybe you need to pay attention more to the discussion then: Most of the 3rd party games on that list didn't sell even to 1% of the install base.

It's you who needs to pay more attention. Those particular games sold poorly for a variety of reasons. They were late. They didn't provide any tangible reason to re-purchase them on Wii U, like better graphics (which the PS4 and Xbox One re-releases you mentioned did offer). And there's the overall perception that the Wii U is an underpowered console, which always harms sales across the board.

Those are facts. Ports that arrive late and bring nothing significantly new to the table are not going to sell. But sure, you go on believing that Nintendo fans are some kind of aliens that don't play the same games everyone else plays in spite of dozens of people who post here every day that prove otherwise; that's a really smart thing to think.

 

[OrbitalBeard]

I mean, who actually thinks this?

Sure, third party games don't mean all that much to me when it comes to Nintendo consoles, but it sure as heck matters to Nintendo and to the consumer at large.

 

[family_guy]

They only matter if you exclusively buy Nintendo consoles. That's not many people so it's not worth the investment for most publishers when they know the majority can and will play those games on other platforms.

 

[Prisoner KSC2-303]

There are no "scars". People think about this stuff far too much in terms of individual human relationships and not in terms of business ones. In the business world this stuff can turn around in a hurry.

The NX needs to do two things: 1) It needs to have a cool factor that gets a good sized initial buy-in from consumers. 2) It needs to not throw up technical hurdles against porting games that use popular engines, whether that's the raw power of the console or the difficultiy of programming for it.

If it does both, it will get support from third parties notably better than what Wii U got. It won't get the support Sony and Microsoft get—at least not right away—but it's ridiculous to think it would take "decades". With margins as razor thin as they are for game publishers these days, they will support any machine they think they can turn a profit on. They don't nurse grudges.

Nintendo just has to be interested in making a machine that provides a clear path to profit for games made for it, and whether or not they are is the big question with NX.

Nintendo's current situation with third parties may be somewhat mired in the two points you raise, but rectifying those won't solve the larger issue, which is how publishers now perceive Nintendo's current user base, both in type and by extension profitability.

You're right that margins are tight, and more sales is better, but porting to a Nintendo home console - however easy it may be - isn't necessarily going to be seen as potentially reaching a new customer, so may never make financial sense for most third parties. Publishers don't hold grudges, but they will always go where they think the market is for their games, and sadly the view of that seems to be away from Nintendo for many genres.

I'd look less at the number of titles that's dwindled on Nintendo consoles, and more at the types of games, and how beyond a few ports that variation has atrophied. Nintendo can do many things to change the situation that's brought us to this point, but a lot of that may be shutting the barn door after the horse has bolted. Third parties simply don't need Nintendo any more.

The one real ray of hope is the nature of NX. If indeed it does tap into the handheld market - be that as a hybrid system, cross functionality or whatever - that opens more doors to third parties who focus on handheld and mobile gaming; it's the one field the other manufacturers don't have covered, and the one where Nintendo stock is still high.

 

[AgeEighty]

They only matter if you exclusively buy Nintendo consoles. That's not many people so it's not worth the investment for most publishers when they know the majority can and will play those games on other platforms.

Personally, if I could get both Nintendo's games and non-watered-down third party games on one console without having to spring for another, I'd be all over third party games for Nintendo and perfectly willing to be a single-console guy. I don't buy multiple consoles because I love spending money.

 

[Mokujin]

I don't really think that people believe that at all, maybe someone tries to justify the absence of it, but outside of that I can't think anyone rational can agree with that.

But no matter what it's going to be a really hard time to get decent 3rd party support.

 

[MMaRsu]

Yeah only nintendo fanboys? think that

 

[GhostTrick]

I think what people mean by Nintendo dont need 3rd parties is aiming at specific western 3rd parties.
Of course, 3rd parties are vital to their business, but it's more about Capcom, SE, Bamco, Level 5, SEGA or Marvelous rather than EA, Ubisoft, Activision, 2K.

 

[KingSnake]

Those are facts. Ports that arrive late and bring nothing significantly new to the table are not going to sell. But sure, you go on believing that Nintendo fans are some kind of aliens that don't play the same games everyone else plays in spite of dozens of people who post here every day that prove otherwise; that's a really smart thing to think.

What are you even talking about? You're taking this way too personal. This is not an attack on Nintendo fans (I'm not masochist if you get what I mean) as I have the feeling you perceive it, although I tried already two times to move the discussion from the particular to the general. Anecdotes don't count. Stop using GAF or your circle as a mirror of the general public. It's not relevant.

The discussion is not even about the Nintedo fans. It's about third parties and their audience. This is about sales data, about different demographics and about marketing. If you think that these don't count it's fine, good luck waiting for the third party games on NX if Nintendo is not willing to invest in that.

 

[AgeEighty]

Nintendo's current situation with third parties may be somewhat mired in the two points you raise, but rectifying those won't solve the larger issue, which is how publishers now perceive Nintendo's current user base, both in type and by extension profitability.

You're right that margins are tight, and more sales is better, but porting to a Nintendo home console - however easy it may be - isn't necessarily going to be seen as potentially reaching a new customer, so may never make financial sense for most third parties. Publishers don't hold grudges, but they will always go where they think the market is for their games, and sadly the view of that seems to be away from Nintendo for many genres.

I'd look less at the number of titles that's dwindled on Nintendo consoles, and more at the types of games, and how beyond a few ports that variation has atrophied. Nintendo can do many things to change the situation that's brought us to this point, but a lot of that may be shutting the barn door after the horse has bolted. Third parties simply don't need Nintendo any more.

The one real ray of hope is the nature of NX. If indeed it does tap into the handheld market - be that as a hybrid system, cross functionality or whatever - that opens more doors to third parties who focus on handheld and mobile gaming; it's the one field the other manufacturers don't have covered, and the one where Nintendo stock is still high.

The bolded part of your post sticks out to me as a strange statement to make, because how do you define what a third party publisher "needs"? Are they raking in more money than they can possibly spend? Not really; in fact the state of the industry has been getting more dire year by year despite record hardware sales, because of the skyrocketing cost of development. So of course they would all say they "need" more money. They're businesses, and businesses are about exploiting opportunities for profit. Especially publicly traded ones like most of the big publishers are.

The reason third parties don't support Nintendo is because historically they can't be profitable there. This is for two reasons: lower install base, and higher cost of entry. And you don't have to take my word for it: these are the reasons most third parties have publicly given for years now. The emotional factors that consumer-level gamers like to banter on about really don't enter into it.

There certainly may be a perception that Nintendo's audience doesn't buy third party games, but that's born more out of the historical quality of those games on Nintendo consoles. That lower quality usually ties directly in to the state of Nintendo's hardware, so if Nintendo can make the case to third parties that they can get their games running on Nintendo hardware with minimal effort and without noticeable sacrifices in quality, it's a relatively low-risk/high-potential-reward situation for them... especially with a digital distribution model.

What are you even talking about? You're taking this way too personal.

Lol, what? There is literally nothing in my posts taking anything "personal". I made a point and then you replied directly to me, and now you're trying to tell me that my own post isn't what we're talking about. You're not making sense.

And this:

The discussion is not even about the Nintedo fans. It's about third parties and their audience

makes especially no sense, because in a discussion about Nintendo consoles, Nintendo fans and the potential audience for third party titles on a Nintendo console are one and the same group of people. We're talking about the people who are making the decision about whether to purchase a third party game on a Nintendo console or on a different console, and those people are, by and large, Nintendo fans, because they own a Nintendo console. It can hardly be said that anyone other than a fan of Nintendo buys (or asks for as a gift) a Nintendo console.

 

[KingSnake]

The bolded part of your post sticks out to me as a strange statement to make, because how do you define what a third party publisher "needs"? Are they raking in more money than they can possibly spend? Not really; in fact the state of the industry has been getting more dire year by year despite record hardware sales, because of the skyrocketing cost of development.

Someone hasn't followed the financial results of EA and Activision in the past years.

Edit: and you actually said in this thread that Nintendo fans buy the 3rd party games on other consoles, so there are no new clients to get for the third party publishers according to your own theory.