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[Sneaky Gato]

Confirms much of what has been speculated but it is interesting to see

http://www.kotaku.co.uk/2016/06/09/how-fable-legends-took-down-lionhead

Something else happened in 2012: former Sony executive Phil Harrison joined Microsoft as corporate vice president in charge of its European game development efforts. Harrison has a long history in the games industry – he is a part of the story of a great many high-profile games of the last two decades – and he had a very clear vision for where games were going. Phil passionately believed in games-as-service: in other words, long-tail online games that evolved with their player bases, and were probably free-to-play. This belief would be what determined Lionhead’s direction (and, judging by Sea of Thieves, Rare’s too)

“I thought I was going to be working on a single-player game, a more advanced version of Fable 3,” says one source. “But when they went to get that game approved, the three senior designers who were pitching it were told that ‘you will not be given permission to make Fable 4, or something that is a shadow Fable 4’. Phil Harrison’s vision for all of his studios in Europe was now for service-based games. That’s what he thought was the future of games. He didn’t want to make anything that was a £50 box, fire and forget. He wanted long tails of revenue, even if there was a smaller up-front burst of revenue.”

“The game was pitched to Harrison as a medium-scale game, a AA game. It was supposed to be out significantly earlier; it would have been last summer,” says a source. “But the size of the game just kept growing, and the fidelity value of the game kept growing. And that was because we were the servant of two masters. We reported to Phil Harrison, the master of Europe, but we also had another person that he does not report to: Phil Spencer [head of the Xbox division]. And he wants a beautiful AAA quality experience that he can use to sell Xbox Ones. So now we’re making a free-to-play game that’s as expensive as an AAA game. Very dangerous.”

“The original pitch was for a really cheap game – it certainly wasn’t the $75m we ended up spending,” corroborates another source. “There were going to be three phases of release. But as time wore on, there were various voices that made it more complicated. For example, Spencer was very keen on having the Fable features: it was crucial that it could be played single player, for instance that was suddenly a big important thing. It was also supposed to be “the prettiest ever online game” – that was Harrison, he wanted it to be prettier than anything else out there.

Xbox One sales were falling far short of projections. Windows 10 installs, too, were nowhere near what Microsoft had planned.

“Let’s be honest – we make our projections based on a series of assumptions,” reflects a former employee who worked closely with Microsoft. “There are supposed to be 2x as many Xboxes out there as there are right now. There are supposed to be 2x as many Windows 10 installs as there currently are. So now, when we look at how much money Legends could make in the free-to-play universe, you have to halve it.

“First-party studios isn’t doing so well. Halo 5 is a big miss, versus projections. Minecraft is a big miss, versus projections. Compared to either one of those, Lionhead is practically a rounding error. But I think if your division is under-performing, you have to go to your boss with something on the altar.”

http://www.kotaku.co.uk/2016/06/09/how-fable-legends-took-down-lionhead

The idea that Windows 10 installations have failed to meet targets despite their incredible persistence is genuinely shocking to me. Or the minecraft tidbit. It is interesting to see that Sea of Thieves will be a service game so hopefully Microsoft will be able to fix the issues here on that project before it becomes too late. For an earlier article that also had some excellent insights Eurogamer had a pretty good one.

 

[DNAbro]

Wait Minecraft is a big miss? What the hell were they expecting. It is still constantly one of the top sellers month after month.

 

[OverBlood 3]

People that don't understand game development in charge of game development, what could possibly go wrong. Spencer and Harrison good work.

 

[Banderdash]

2 things I take out of that...
1. It sounds like Phil Harrison did Lionhead in.
2. How the hell does Phil Harrison not report to Phil Spencer?

 

[Memory]

Wait Minecraft is a big miss? What the hell were they expecting. It is still constantly one of the top sellers month after month.

Take this with abit of salt, these are after all people who just got jilted talking about their former employer anonymously.

 

[Coxy100]

A good read. The eurogamer article on Lionhead was fascinating - added to this just makes me more sad

 

[Zedox]

2 things I take out of that...
1. It sounds like Phil Harrison did Lionhead in.
2. How the hell does Phil Harrison not report to Phil Spencer?

I concur. Fuck that dude.

 

[Social]

I just don't understand that so much money was already spent on it, why not take it to the finish line at least?

 

[Lactose_Intolerant]

2. How the hell does Phil Harrison not report to Phil Spencer?

Someone thought they were the same person

 

[Lime]

Phil Harrison seemed like he didn't know what he was doing with what he was given

 

[TimeEffect]

Very unfortunate that upper management muddled everything and that the developers couldnt develop what they wanted to.

 

[SEGAvangelist]

I guess it's a good thing that Phil Harrison is gone. That article really makes him look bad.

 

[Audioboxer]

I know there is separate topics for parts of this but after reading the whole article what an absolute shit show. It's probably only scratching some surfaces as well.

Internally corporate really do fuck up at times. I guess when they fuck up they go all out and start fires everywhere.

Even if certain things can get pinned on individuals, it's bad enough letting those individuals run rampant and manage to tear down progress single handedly.

 

[rrc1594]

Sounds like Spencer wanted a more traditional Fable.

 

[DeadOnions]

Sounds like Spencer wanted a more traditional Fable.

Yeah it's a shame he wasn't head of Xbox earlier. Fable could have been salvaged. I imagine when he took over the game was too far along to rework.

 

[slapnuts]

Why isn't Phil Spencer getting any blame? He is the leader of Xbox as a whole, no? Surely he could of had the final pull on everything yet Harrison is to blame and not a peep about Spencer, go figure

 

[TheHater]

As someone who used to work for a company that was in business for over 60 years that recently went out of business; I can relate. New management basically destroy 60 years of hard work in less than 3 years.

I really hope for the best for the staff.

 

[T.O.P]

Why isn't Phil Spencer getting any blame? He is the leader of Xbox as a whole, no? Surely he could of had the final pull on everything yet Harrison is to blame and not a peep about Spencer, go figure

TBF Phil became head of Xbox in March 2014, Fable Legends became development in 2012

 

[sohois]

Seems a but harsh to pin the blame on Harrison, when the article makes it clear that there was a massive lack of communication and hierarchy at MS, which led to fable legends constantly changing and ballooning in budget.

 

[KingJ2002]

this sounds like the confusion happened during the transition period to Phil Spencer becoming head of xbox.

Harrison may be on the money with Sea of Thieves though... following a Destiny like route isn't a bad thing because if the gameplay is as good as we're hoping for... it could be the game Microsoft needs to move consoles.

At the same time... seeing this conflict in philosophies and the money being burned... it shows that there needed to be better structure for the Xbox Division and a clear vision when it comes to first party efforts.

Phil Spencer came in when it was too late I suppose.

...

I would love to see the Fable franchise return as it's death was very premature and Microsoft could use the established IP to move consoles... but not until the UK muck is cleared up.

 

[c0de]

Wait Minecraft is a big miss? What the hell were they expecting. It is still constantly one of the top sellers month after month.

This is where I get curious. Yes, the bone underperforms and so did Halo but I think that there might be a bit of burn in the whole message. Understandable, of course.

 

[prwxv3]

TBF Phil became head of Xbox in March 2014, Fable Legends became development in 2012

It was in his hands for like two years. Phill Harrison is still the main architect of that disaster but Spencer had his hand in it.

 

[TheHater]

Yeah it's a shame he wasn't head of Xbox earlier. Fable could have been salvaged. I imagine when he took over the game was too far along to rework.

Phil took over in 2014
The game was announce via a cinematic trailer at E3 2013 or gamescon.....can't recall which showcase
We didn't get game play until E3 the following year which was 2014.
Game was cancel in March of 2016

Yeah Phil had plenty of time to allow them to rework the game since he was in charge for basically 2 years of the development cycle.

 

[Ridley327]

That certainly explains why a f2p title wound up totaling around a high-end MMO budget.

 

[justsomeguy]

Interesting comments...

 

[Raylan]

TBF Phil became head of Xbox in March 2014, Fable Legends became development in 2012

Spencer served as general manager of Microsoft Game Studios EMEA, working with Microsoft's European developers and studios such as Lionhead Studios and Rare Ltd. until 2008, when he became the general manager of Microsoft Studios, eventually becoming the studio's corporate vice president a year later.

I'm sure he had something to say in 2012.

 

[Sneaky Gato]

It blows my mind that a game meant to be AA F2P somehow hit Metal Gear Solid 5 budget numbers without releasing.

 

[Leflus]

Man... Agent Phil really did a number on the European Xbox division, didn't he?

 

[Az987]

How can people who work in the industry for so long still not know anything ?

Hey, make a cheap, free to play multiplayer version of fable. Except make it the prettiest game ever, add a single player story to it and make it a AAA experience.

That's like a car executive saying make me a sports car as good as a Ferrari but make it under $20k. Oh, and it needs a huge V12 engine but also needs to get 50 MPG.

 

[Apples_89]

Putting all facts and rumours aside, it made absolutely no sense why Lionhead would hedge all their bets on free to play 4 vs. 1 game with the Fable brand attached to it when all Fable fans want is another true to form fucking Fable game. They willingly created their own demise, and it's hard to sympathize with them for that.

 

[faridmon]

I just don't understand that so much money was already spent on it, why not take it to the finish line at least?

Maybe finishing it would have resulted in a bigger losses that would not be recouped through sales.

Better to lose, say 50 Million than 70 Million +Sales.

Putting all facts and rumours aside, it made absolutely no sense why Lionhead would hedge all their bets on free to play 4 vs. 1 game with the Fable brand attached to it when all Fable fans want is another true to form fucking Fable game. They willingly created their own demise, and it's hard to sympathize with them for that.

Yeah, Both parties fucked up badly and the Project manager needs to be fired. Too bad a whole team is made redundant rather than one responsible for it, from the looks of things.

 

[KinofChaos]

TBF Phil became head of Xbox in March 2014, Fable Legends became development in 2012

He was head of their studios then....

Phil took over in 2014
The game was announce via a cinematic trailer at E3 2013 or gamescon.....can't recall which showcase
We didn't get game play until E3 the following year which was 2014.
Game was cancel in March of 2016

Yeah Phil had plenty of time to allow them to rework the game since he was in charge for basically 2 years of the development cycle.

#26
Originally Posted by T.O.P

TBF Phil became head of Xbox in March 2014, Fable Legends became development in 2012

Spencer served as general manager of Microsoft Game Studios EMEA, working with Microsoft's European developers and studios such as Lionhead Studios and Rare Ltd. until 2008, when he became the general manager of Microsoft Studios, eventually becoming the studio's corporate vice president a year later.

 

[Jumeira]

People that don't understand game development in charge of game development, what could possibly go wrong. Spencer and Harrison good work.

Yeah good job, Fable legends looked terrible to begin with. And Spencer's requirement is reasonable; to ask for a quality single player experience. Lionhead were going downhill since Fable 3. Writing was on the wall.

 

[SurfaceofChristianity]

Sounds more like a pissed of ex employee, would take everything he says with a grain of salt.

 

[Audioboxer]

Sounds more like a pissed of ex employee, would take everything he says with a grain of salt.

Why wouldn't an ex employee of this be pissed off? Not to mention wanting to spill the beans?

 

[Go_Ly_Dow]

Harrison truly is a double agent.

 

[Nokterian]

Sounds like Spencer wanted a more traditional Fable.

Sounds like it a shame though i would rather have because legends didn't do anything for me and it wasn't even fable. But goddamn Phil Harrison he makes the worst decisions.

 

[Mr. Giggles]

Wait Minecraft is a big miss? What the hell were they expecting. It is still constantly one of the top sellers month after month.

Right?!

This thing is still super popular with the younger crowd!

 

[Stumpokapow]

Wait Minecraft is a big miss? What the hell were they expecting. It is still constantly one of the top sellers month after month.

(it's referring to the windows 10 version of minecraft which was totally recoded and remade from the bottom up and no one gives a shit because no one likes the windows 10 app store and the process of transferring purchases from minecraft.net to w10 was crappy)

 

[Ghost Slayer]

Harrison truly is a double agent.

Waiting for him to join Nintendo to become triple agent until Gaben hires him

 

[BleedOrange]

Phil Harrison seems right. Games as a Service games are doing the best out of all types of games this gen.

 

[dantevsninjas]

We could have gotten another Fable, but instead we got another example of a failure brought about by chasing that games as a service money. Is the only requirement to become an executive in a game company the willingness to chase after any and every fad regardless of the mounds of evidence pointing to likely failure?

 

[Go_Ly_Dow]

Phil Harrison seems right. Games as a Service games are doing the best out of all types of games this gen.

That doesn't mean you have to standardise the model across all your studios.

It should be a matter of case by case best fit.

 

[Plasma]

Microsoft spent $75m on this and didn't finish it, wow.

 

[Anton Sugar]

We could have gotten another Fable, but instead we got another example of a failure brought about by chasing that games as a service money. Is the only requirement to become an executive in a game company the willingness to chase after any and every fad regardless of the mounds of evidence pointing to likely failure?

Not quite:

Phil Harrison seems right. Games as a Service games are doing the best out of all types of games this gen.

GaaS (or whatever it will be called) isn't a fad that's going away anytime soon.

This seems more of a problem of serving two masters and/or wanting to have your cake and eat it, too.

 

[Stiler]

Sucks so much, Lionhead was my favorite first-party studio of microsoft's for xbox.

Fable (the main rpgs at least) were always games I'd buy day one, no questions asked cause I know what I was getting.

This should be a prime example of why you need one voice to lead game development, not two. The old "Too many cooks in the kitchen" fits it to a T.

If they only had to answer to either Harrison or Spencer they'd likely have made it.

 

[GeordieMark]

Phil Harrison seems right. Games as a Service games are doing the best out of all types of games this gen.

Yep. It's all about the execution. That's where it all went wrong here. Too many cooks, conflicting priorities, and a team that didn't have the experience to pull off the unenviable task at hand. The model itself is fine, but executed horribly here.

 

[MCD]

Harrison not reporting to Spencer is a bit too much, no?

 

[dantevsninjas]

Not quite:



GaaS (or whatever it will be called) isn't a fad that's going away anytime soon.

This seems more of a problem of serving two masters and/or wanting to have your cake and eat it, too.

I phrased that incorrectly, while those types of games may be doing very well, only a handful of them generally succeed, with a number of competitors attempting to move into the space and ultimately failing/not meeting overblown expectations. Like the MMO space a few years ago.

 

[WaterAstro]

uuuh same thread?

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1230579